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Title says it all.
Cool.
Buddha.

its about taking back our country from the corrupt corporate/military/political system.

Reload - You been to one of those protests ?
Cool.
Buddha.

It is about a bunch of entitled, little suburban douchebags trying to protest a nameless, formless concept (Wallstreet) so they can become famous for 30 seconds on YouTube after they get arrested and start crying because they dropped their inhalers and their cuffs are on too tight.

Quote from: The Buddha on October 10, 2011, 10:02:34 AM
Reload - You been to one of those protests ?
Cool.
Buddha.

nah i haven't. the word is that they are a bunch of unorganized hippies. i'll have to see for myself one of these days.

did you make your way out to one? if so how was it?

Saw the one in DC last week. More of the signs I saw were anti-war than anti-wallstreet. I think it's mostly people who are angry cause they don't have jobs and have too much time on their hands for the same reason...

So....
I wrote about two pages worth of ranting.

I'll spare the details and cut to the chase:
It is about whining and crying about self imposed delinquencies and then expecting to rely on others for a solution thereby further imposing self imposed delinquencies.

When the people rise up we won't need the media to sensationalize it.

...and other shazam.

I doubt that it will be going away anytime soon.......................

People are frustrated, rightly or wrongly, that's not for me to judge. They can see that street demonstrations have bought down some ugly governments and others are very concerned, "Arab Spring" being prime example. They might actually end up with a worse monster but I suppose it will be their monster.

Of course street demos will attract other groups, anti-war, anti-personal hygiene, anti-peace etc as well as the nutters who just want a bit of a barney

I still think that lot will be around for a while, It'll get bigger before it fades.

Charlotte just started - wall street may have the nutcases, charlotte is all nutcases ... they marched to BOA headquarters though, so atleast they have their priorities straight. Word on the street is that someone BOA people were recognised in the protest so they have been infiltrated, and they will be repoing the houses, cars and what not of those protesters @ 2 X the regular pace. Matter of fact one guy's van was repoed @ the protest cos he was 9 hours late on the payment.

That's the word on the street and I made it ... I mean heard it. Pass it on.

Cool.
Buddha.

Lets face it though. Wall street owns our government. The bail-out gave people bonus' while others struggled to find new homes. The government should of tried to refinance those screwed up mortgages and install new regulations so that no one gets bad loans. Mortgage backed securities screwed wall street and they deserve it.  The movement just needs to focus on certain aspects of the government. First thing to change should be those Damn financial regulations.

Why are they not pissed at Obama, why are they not marching on the white house, it was Obama that bailed out the banks---Obama is the king of wall street.

Obama definitely not but the treasury which is run by former Goldman Sachs employees is definitely the reason for a lot of things

Quote from: ojstinson on October 11, 2011, 08:57:32 AM
Why are they not pissed at Obama, why are they not marching on the white house, it was Obama that bailed out the banks---Obama is the king of wall street.

Keep dreaming there OJ. And keep listening to Rush/Sean/Faux nudes.

Obama didn't bail wall street, obama was just the patsy that released the last piece that actually didn't go to goldman, Goldman got their money out of the 200 billion AiG bail out arranged by Bush and paid for by thr protesters.  Get your news straight, then you can start on the opinions.

Treasury is run by ex GS, but he was put there by bush, of course that guy was moved to a new position by Obama. Well qualified he may be, but he still was the wrong guy to start with.

Cool.
Buddha.

Big Picture---Obama is the president, has been for years and the country has gone to sh It, he has done nothing but blame and complain---the man doesn't have a friggin clue. Do you honestly want 4 more years of this ? How can you get away with keeping the past administrations policies and people in place and then blame everything on them. Where is the hope, ( I definitely see the change ), where is the transparency, where is the lack of rampant corruption?

BTW, where is Cindy Sheehan keeping herself, we are now in 3 wars and haven't heard a peep out of that hypocritical shrew.

Gotta give the Oman credit, he is big time bombing the crap out of them ferneners.

Fox news?-----you don't have to watch anything to realize this guy is an empty suit hooked up to a teleprompter----a mindless pawn controlled by super wealthy socialist. You can always tell by the degree of bashing who the left is most afraid of----that's the only transparency you can attribute to them.

Quote from: ojstinson on October 11, 2011, 11:26:51 AM
Big Picture---Obama is the president, has been for years and the country has gone to sh It, he has done nothing but blame and complain---the man doesn't have a friggin clue. Do you honestly want 4 more years of this ? How can you get away with keeping the past administrations policies and people in place and then blame everything on them. Where is the hope, ( I definitely see the change ), where is the transparency, where is the lack of rampant corruption?

Oh yea he's been for years ... 2 1/2 years to be precise, and like I said before - car, no oil blow up, then get out and 1/2 hour later say haven't you fix it yet ... hurry up ... yea that analogy. Speaking in simple terms, Obama isn't to blame, Cheney is, Obama isn't doing anything to fix, cos it is unfixable. Simple, wrecked beyond repair. We need to get ourselves a better country and start from there, maybe.

Quote from: ojstinson on October 11, 2011, 11:26:51 AM
BTW, where is Cindy Sheehan keeping herself, we are now in 3 wars and haven't heard a peep out of that hypocritical shrew.

Yes however we are just watching and playing referee in Libya (I presume), and the othe r2 wars were started by Cheney by lying to the people. Cindy Sheehan is probably in front of cheney's house cos that is who gets the blame for the 2 un ending wars. Once again, car run with no oil for 20 mins = blow up. 30 mins later when its being towed, dont ask if its fixed yet, and dont say hurry up ... not fixable - maybe.

Quote from: ojstinson on October 11, 2011, 11:26:51 AM
Gotta give the Oman credit, he is big time bombing the crap out of them ferneners.

This is libya I presume again, and of course that works well wiht haliburton oops sorry blackwater wink wink ... Cheney couldn't have done it better dont'cha think.

Quote from: ojstinson on October 11, 2011, 11:26:51 AM
Fox news?-----you don't have to watch anything to realize this guy is an empty suit hooked up to a teleprompter----a mindless pawn controlled by super wealthy socialist. You can always tell by the degree of bashing who the left is most afraid of----that's the only transparency you can attribute to them.

Faux news.
Teleprompter in suit, and sadly that is a good definition ... however it is better than being Cheney's hand puppet cos Cheney was liar, corporate whore, religious nut hypocrite and general a$$hole incarnate.

In short ... no one is protesting Obama cos he's not done anything. No wars under false pretences, no bail out to goldman, "no corporations are people too" nothing.

The extreme far far far far right - the tea party has hijacked the political establishment for big business and uber wealthy. The rest of the 99% of the populations are just crying about it feebly. That is it. Obama has no part in either of it.

Protesting against Obama is the easiest thing in the world, everyone knows where he is ... just show up there with signs ... has it happened ... OK I rest my case.

Obama is a useless president in your eyes OJ for reasons that have nothig to do with the performance he has put in. That is it, end of story.

Cool.
Buddha.

Thank you for pointing that out.

SOS, Excuses, Excuses, and blame Bush.  Is that the best defense of this idiot that you can come up with ? Every single thing you have come up with so far in based in the mantra of Blame Bush. The guy is 4 more years of Bush, and in addition double the joblessness and quadruple the debt. America is fed up with empty promises, lies, and excuses---anyone but Obama, even a decent democrat.

The blame is proportional to the crime.

Cheney blew up the country in his 8 years, and it may take 4 years to fix it, may take 8 ... may take 40, may take 400 ... and we're 2 1/2 years in, and that is with someone who is working in that direction, Obama can do nothing and be better than Cheney, Obama has to be a good superman and work for years to bring it back on track ... and he is neither.

Obama can do nothing and be way better than Cheney.
Obama can toil hard and the entire congress be behind him and still be @ it for decades before it is better.

Obama is somehere between the 2 and the congress is back in the Big business and uber rich's pocket and country is worse off for it.

Once again, I will take your car drain the oil and get on the road. 20 min later car is dead. Then I call you ... you call a tow truck. Then I stand around and say is it fixed yet ... when will it be fixed ... That is what you're doing. I can say, the car is on the tow truck ... or we're waiting for a tow truck, it may be hours before we even know what is blowed up. Sadly we are @ that point now. taking stock of what may have happened.

End of story. Cheney blew it up, we may need 100 years of someone who is superman ...

Cool.
Buddha.

A bonified dyed in the wool consumer of Obama Kool Aid, come 2012 they are going to need a lot more of you and the rest of the--We believe not what we see, feel, and know to be true, but what Obama tells us to believe and feel---crowd.

You need to ditch that playbook before it's too late---you need to look behind that curtain at the clueless frightened little man.

No play book ... not a obama fan at all. Just dont expect the 8 years of cheney to be fixed in 2.5 years of any one. Worse yet, I get to watch the financial industry from the inside, I work @ banks for the last 10 years. The Cheney white house was seriuosly flush times for the banks. Till in 08 the house of cards collapsed.

Anyway, Put Ron Paul on the republican ticket and you get me as a republican. Put Romney, Cain and I stay away. I like Romney care, maybe I should vote for him just for that ... but then again its a copy of Obamacare and I could just sit it out and have the same end result.

Put any of the others and I turn blue.

I am a great proponent of "Dont vote, it just encourages the bastids". Unless the bastid in there is so bad he needs a active discouragement by voting for the other guy.

I also listen to NPR or as you might know of it - Liberal Public radio, and not watch any other TV or listen to radio really.

Seriously man, dont vote, it just encourages the bastids.

Cool.
Buddha.

You listen to NPR? Well, that explains the Bush/Cheney blame blame blame.

Clinton sets up the whole shebang but Bush Cheney are blamed. Clinton declares war on Yugoslavia to divert attention from getting his weeny polished but blame Bush/Cheney. Clinton devastates the military knowing it will need to be rebuilt after he is gone, but Blame Bush/Cheney. Ronnie R passes legislation that devastates the small S&Ls and hands the majority of mortgages on a silver platter to Rockerfeller and ilk, and creates SOP for doing likewise later, and when it happens again, don't blame the Rockerfeller, Rothschilds, Greenspan, Ben Bernanke, etc., for setting it up, blame Bush/Cheney. Kissinger is in the ear, but give him a pass. Obama was a Kissinger protege, but ignore Kissinger, make excuses for Barry O, and blame Bush/Cheney some more.

NPR is as liberal as you can get. They exists to...

#1 Whine
#2 blame Bush Cheney

Free your mind man, stop listening to ALL that sh!t. The liberal media and fox news are equally Influencing. Turn off the bombardment and set your mind free.

Michael

Dude you are blaming Clinton and Reagan ... why should I not blame Cheney ... BTW all the blame being assigned is fair to Clinton, Cheney etc. Mister I am with you on the whole POTUS being a puppet of Big business. The thing was Cheney went far beyond the duties of a puppet.

However I also am a huge critic of NPR. I Freaking cringe at the thought of ever hearing the word "Hunta" again ... Thanks god Myannmar is out of the news ... they get a bunch of sheite wrong ... so I know they are to be taken with a huge grain of salt. If you remember entertainment industry is very left leaning, talk radio is severe right NPR is all that there is man.

Anyway POTUS is a puppet, dont try to exceed your calling and start thinking you are a real person ...

Sadly when you hear "corporations are people too" you have to really wake up and I guess shoot the puppet.

BTW the way we should have been in and we would ahve if we weren't mired in 2 useless wars is libya.

NPR exists to make serious mistakes about asian countries, and to put 952 year old ladies on the air as hosts whenever they can get out of their graves ... though word on the street is that only their voice can get out from the grave ... In any case I listen to mainly financial news, cos I need it to do a better job @ looking for work and for very little else.

Cool.
Buddha.

I'm not blaming them. Using them as an example of things you could blame them for but you don't and only keep playing the blame Bush/Cheney card is all.

If you know the POTUS and hangers on are puppets, why keep blaming them? "corporations are people too" is actually correct from a legal standpoint. It's not the puppet saying it of their own accord, they just say what they are told to say, what is written for them to say.

Besides, the entire govt is a corporation. The idea of Dem vs GOP is also a ruse. They both play their respective parts. But at the end of the day they all work for the same Company and all work towards the agenda of that company. You can swap out the personnel but the company will keep doing what it has always been doping. Regardless of who the figurehead is or those in the house or senate. Swap them all out, but the bureaucracy remains the same, the string pullers remain the same, so the actions of the swapped out people must also remain the same.

Michael

Only thing that will probably help us is another FDR and a whole house and senate on his side. Unfortunately, this generation is too lazy to do things like the CCC or TVA. God knows our infrastructure is falling apart but we are too good for manual labor anymore because we are all edumacated. CCC was one of the best things that Rosevelt did because it got our boys out and working it also accustomed them to working together in groups and disciplined we had a quick and detachable civilian workforce that swithced very easily to our military after Pearl Harbor. It also was our first environmental movement with the planting of millions of trees and land repair.

But, anything short of drastic measures will most likely fail.

Mary

I dont think we are opposed to manual labor. We are opposed to doing manual labor for a menial wage ... sadly Immigrants, Illegal immigrants to be precise have the ability to do manual labor for next to nothing, they also live 30 to an apartment and in most cases are younger than the rest of the unemployed public.

Educated ... dont make me laugh, yea we are all CSI's ... and educated in subjects that have no practical relevance. Why do we need millions of english graduates ...

BTW WTF is "Language Art" ... yea it is a real subject ... I cant believe tax payers are paying for this garbage, and sadly because they are, we dont get to take our money away and go to a normal school. Garbage.

Cool.
Buddha.

OK I get it, this worthless movement is about getting student debt forgiven ... you fools, you're screwered ... your school screwered you. You screwered yourself ... you took out 300K in student loans to get a sociology degree which @ the best of times pays a whopping $12/hr ... and you expect the people who lent you the $ to go without ... go screwer yourself. Maybe go back to your school and protest their fees ... and then your dorm and protest the room and food costs, then go to the beer factory and protest that ... Morons.

Oddly I started this post not really knowing what the thing was about. Not as political bait. BTW no one knew what it was about cos ... well, they didn't publish a list of demands till yesterday.

Cool.
Buddha.

Pulled this from msn - link is here -
http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/world-news/occupy-wall-street-protesters-demand-student-loan-relief_598557.html


Occupy Wall Street protesters demand student loan reliefIt may be hard to pin down exactly what the Occupy Wall Street protesters want, but one of the sources of their frustration seems clear. Many of the demonstrators are drowning in student debt.Post your opinion here   

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More from CNBC.com

Op-Ed: Buried in Student Loans? Don't Blame the Banks
Occupy Wall Street: What Life Is Like for Protesters
Occupy Wall Street: Who the Protestors Are


It may be hard to pin down exactly what the Occupy Wall Street protesterswant, but one of the sources of their frustration seems clear. Many of the demonstrators are drowning in student debt.


Rose Swidden came to Zuccotti Park in Lower Manhattan from upstate New York, where she is studying agriculture at SUNY Cobleskill. She expects to graduate in May with USD 35,000 in debt, and doesn`t know how she will pay it back.

"We did what we were told to do: go to college, get an education, you`ll get a job, you`ll get a house, you`ll be cool," she said. "And that`s what we did. And now here we are done with it-and now what?"

One proposed list of demands for the Occupy Wall Street movementincludes "free college tuition" and "immediate across the board forgiveness" of student debt. While neither demand may be very realistic, the student debt problem is very real.

According to FinAid.org, which carries a "student debt clock" on its website, outstanding student debt is on pace to top USD 1 trillionin a matter of months. Student debt surpassed credit card debt in 2010, and has not looked back. The average 2011 college graduate had USD 27,204 in student debt, according to the organization.

One reason for the debt crunch: college tuition continues to rise at more than twice the core rate of inflation, according to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics. At the same time, students and their families are not adjusting their expectations for a college education to reflect the poor economy.


Protester Angelina Lesniewski graduated from a Massachusetts liberal arts college in May with an English degree. She has no job prospects in her field, and USD 28,000 in student debt.

"I could have gotten a degree in something practical like psychology, which I find very interesting but I would have been miserable," she said.

The unemployment rate for people aged 20 to 24 was 14.7 percentage in September according to the government, putting the finances of recent graduates on a collision course with the dismal job market.

Predictably, student loan default rates are rising.

The US Department of Educationreported last month that the official default rate jumped to 8.8% in fiscal 2009-the most recent data available-compared to 7% the year before. The rate is even higher at for-profit schools: 15% in fiscal 2009 versus 11.6% the previous year.

Those numbers represent a snapshot in time, the report said, since they only cover loans in which the first payment became due between October 1, 2008 and September 30, 2009, and went into default before September 30, 2010. Experts say the overall default rate is likely much higher, and the number of people having trouble making payments is even higher than that.

"These two year default rates are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to borrower distress," said Lauren Asher of the non-profit Project on Student Debt. "They don`t capture people who are in delinquency, forbearance or deferment, or who`ve had to extend their repayment which means they are now paying more interest over time to keep payments low."


More troubling, Asher said, is a rise in private student loans, which she says carry far fewer consumer protections than government loans. Many students turn to private lenders to fund their education, either because they have reached their limit on government loans-USD 31,000 for a bachelor`s degree-or have not utilized all the government aid programs available.

"Experts agree whether you talk to lenders or student financial aid advisers that federal loans should come first because they come with important repayment options and consumer protection options," Asher said.

Slideshow: States With The Most Student Debt
Many private lenders got out of the student loan business last year after the federal government began lending money directly to students. Previously, the government guaranteed loans made by private lenders. Some private lenders stayed in the business, however, servicing loans for the government and offering non-guaranteed loans of their own.

They include Sallie Mae (NYSE: SLM), the nation`s largest student loan company, which, like any lender, securitizes portions of its loan portfolio-bundling student loans into securities and selling them to investors. The securitization market for student loans had also dried up, in part because of the credit crunch. Now, the market is coming back. Sallie Mae sold more than USD 3 billion worth of student loan-backed securities in the first half of this year.

With default rates rising, Lauren Asher likens student loan securities to subprime mortgage-backed securitiesduring the housing bubble.

"There`s reasons to be concerned about the return to growth in the private student loan market because that means more students are taking on more high risk debt," Asher said.

Of course, if some of the protesters get their way, with free tuition and debt forgiveness, the problem might go away. Rose Swidden, the agriculture student-turned-protester, acknowledges the demands may be far-fetched, but said it is worth a try.

"Sometimes if you shoot for the moon, you land in the stars."

Copyright 2011 cnbc.com



Woweeee these people are educated ... really ... Yea yea I understand its an expression ... but if you shoot for the moon and dont make it, you will most likely be adrift in space, or more than likely like many many huge masses have in the past .. .come tumbling back to earth and burn off in the atmosphere.

Morons. That's all I can say. Can someone air lift a big pile of shaZam! and rain down on these fools and tell them its what they can use to grow their own food and raise big $ sellign that food and clothing made from corn stalks so they can buy their way to the top ... or some nonsense like that.

Cool.
Buddha.

Somewhere along the line someone convinced these brats that life is just a series of guarantees, and if things don't work out according to plan you get your money back.

Quote from: ojstinson on October 13, 2011, 09:25:51 AM
Somewhere along the line someone convinced these brats that life is just a series of guarantees, and if things don't work out according to plan you get your money back.

Yes they did ... "I am going to college" ads get the blame. Sadly they leave out all the important parts in the ads.
Like for example "I am going to college studying a worthless subject running up debt and going to pay it off for 90 years".

Seriously, you go to college to study widget science ... and go over there and talk to students who are in their 2nd or 3rd year of widget science. If they dotn have widget corporations chasing them asking them to do this and that to widgets, it aint worth learning any more about widgets.

Now wall street people are making $ of the student loans that they are not paying back - HOW ?

I heard another moron yesterday who apparently wants to stop people from top universities working for wall street ... OK so give them alternatives you fool. I will sit @ a desk and type out nonsense on blogs all day long. I will do it @ the location of the highest bidder all factors considered ... for example you can double my $ and I am not moving to Manhattan.
Throw in a nice 3 bedroom apartment on top of that and you got me.

Dont expect a new grad who BTW is drowning in the aforementioned student debt to not work for the best in terms of the overall package. You want to have people work @ companies that make a difference, yes I think that should pay proportional to the difference it will make ... economics baby, cant break it and you cant even bend it for very long.

That is why I want prices on doctors office walls, and I dont want insurance to doctor deal making. That will result in the whole industry seeking the right level, supply vs demand.

Cool.
Buddha.

A general feeling that there are different rules for people with large amounts of money.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2011/10/10/i-am-the-99-how-about-you.aspx?source=isesitlnk0000001&mrr=0.11

Oh I get it, they want our 99 cents. Yea the basterds, they want to take all the $, including shake me upside down for change.

Sorry they dont have any legitimacy in my book. They had a list of the prices of college costs etc, they had a good 2 years of time to make the right choices. If they decided they needed to be away form their parents and have their own swank pad and car and a whole bunch of crap and were studying worthless garbage like "language arts" sorry, they can protest all they want, they are just a bunch of free loaders. Might as well have a sign saying "will work for food - I am the 99%"

To put it in perspective my neighbor I didn't even know this actually till he had graduated, he lived @ home and went through a bachelors program @ UNCC (10 miles away), but sadly he did it in management and had trouble getting a job for almost a year ... in addition he also apparently taught english to mexicans and worked @ an insurance agency the last 2 years. He said he was not in debt at all. Then he got a job in Houston in some insurance company. Not bad at all I thought.

Sorry occupy guys and gals, you may be the 99%, sadly you are also one of the 100% who wants things for free and I guess some percent of those will protest to get it for free.

Cool.
Buddha.

We had a rally here in O-Town this weekend. As Buddha said it is mainly kids that took out too many student loans and are now being raped. But, I don't feel too bad for them because there are ways to save money and take care of yourself while going to school. You don't have to go immediately to the expensive 4 year school. Now, you can get a Bachelors at some Community Colleges well they are no longer called Community Colleges but the prices are the same about half of a traditional 4 year. No one will really know the difference. I will most likely be doing my Master's in Social Work (as long as I keep my GPA I will not be paying for that either one of a few perks of my disability) which will also allow me to be a Mental Health Counselor but I will be opening my own place eventually that will do both. I may eventually earn my PHD but from what I'm researching it really doesn't matter where you get your PHD from just as long as you have it.

But, back on topic I don't think this movement will get far esp if it turns like the ones in Italy did violent.

Mary

When did anything not turn violent in Italy.
Seriously I hope they dont get their demands all ratified 100 %
Cool.
Buddha.

In a not surprising twist, the TEA party is trying to link themselves to Occupy. So Smaller govt, less taxes and let student loans go unpaid. Aaaah yes. Much like the republicans at the debate who said Govt cant create jobs, and as governer I created 100 million jobs. WTF ... as guvn'r you created these jobs ... like you personally, and they all work for you ? Aaah yes, I get it.

The TEA party has gained credibility and by hitching the occupy wagon to TEA they have got some credibility ...

Cool.
Buddha.

I'm kinda' confused by any protesters that camp-out for extended periods of time.
Who's taking care of their family?
Who's keeping their stuff straight at work?
Where they getting all the money it costs to simply Not Work for days and weeks on end?

Just wondering,  :dunno_black:
-Ej-

The weekend occupy in charlotte is pretty big, the weekday one is rather slim.
I suspect they are all unemployed and well, they take turns in wall street. In a city of 10-11 million if there is north of 10% unemployment that is close to 1 million, so 30-50k is a small fraction anyway.
Cool.
Buddha.

i say blame congress, they are the ones that blocked everything so far that obama has put on the table..(not a obama fan by the way, he is as much to blame as the rest of these clowns.) Face it the president is nothing but a public figure, he is there to shake babys and kiss ass... dont forget about the studddddeeeeerring speeches lol

All congress is doing is wasting taxpayer money by ordering the most expensive food money can by on a daily basis, supplying power to that "cathedral" they call a congress, and sitting on paychecks that can supplies enough money to feed the homeless for generations man...

I know you guys would disagree on this, but i for one believe in anarchy/ king ship.. with that i mean a government that is run strictly by the ppl over seen by one person! We have come so damn far in technology that we can run an entire country from a laptop or Ipad... there is no need to give someone billions of dollars to sit on there ass in a nice a/c office eating gourmate catering everyday to make a simple decision to create jobs. (im possitive i got a app for that lmao)

I say put congress out on their ass with the president, and make them work manual labor like i been doin my whole life and see if they can even last a day! (Which i know they cant)

All we are doing is playing the blame game.. and in the end everyone is as guilty as the next guy! Ppl are to lazy to get their ass up and do something, congress is to rich and happy to make any changes cuz face it who would give them self a pay cut??? Ohhh and the lovely president... well his nothing but a damn push over with no mind of his own!
Corporate america is the same as congress... once again who will give them self a pay cut???? I know i wouldnt!
This is where the ppl should have done something during the bush/chaynie presidency but hey last time i checked all americans wait until the last possible min to get anything done lol. thats just the world we live in, when the ppl become more progressive then the country will follow!

sorry for my rant had to get it off my chest!

God damn hippies, gas em and spray with capsicum spray! That'll sort em.

My wife is so bad ...

OK I am officially making fun of these fools abit unfairly nowadays I must admit ... apart from the "waive my student loans" credo they are not too bad ... having said that ...

We have a bif box of new syringes cos my son is on an injected med, and they send us .5 mm syringes with the order and we need .7 ... so we buy those ...
We were plannign to send em to this place in raleigh for some sorta clean needle program for drug users (my wife is into that sorta charitable sheite) ... and I hear on the radio that occupy has received donations etc etc and this is the address ...

So I tell her quick write down the address, and lets send this box of syringes to them. She starts laughing and says yea I'll put this sugar in a zip lock bag and send it along.

Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: The Buddha on October 28, 2011, 09:16:23 AM


So I tell her quick write down the address, and lets send this box of syringes to them. She starts laughing and says yea I'll put this sugar in a zip lock bag and send it along.

Cool.
Buddha.

Classic I love it please tell me use did.

Quote from: The Buddha on October 10, 2011, 09:09:42 AM
Title says it all.
Cool.
Buddha.

it seems to be people get out of school and think theyre qualified to be insta CEO. not one of them can offer 2 propositions. none of them can. 2 props. one short term, and one long term. solutions to the percieved problem. ive yet to ee a single viable alternative

Didn't mean to inhibit the thread. Post pulled.
So then. . .
What is this Occupy movement really about? (http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/urinal.gif)

It's the same mindless, confused, craps we get every generation.
No direction, no moral compass, and way too much time on their hands.

Quote from: mab32 on October 30, 2011, 05:51:30 PM
It's the same mindless, confused, craps we get every generation.
No direction, no moral compass, and way too much time on their hands.

The more I read here the more comfortable I get. (http://www.ssyso.com/forum/images/smilies/new/sunny.gif)

Quote from: aussiegs on October 28, 2011, 02:19:52 PM

Quote from: The Buddha on October 28, 2011, 09:16:23 AM


So I tell her quick write down the address, and lets send this box of syringes to them. She starts laughing and says yea I'll put this sugar in a zip lock bag and send it along.

Cool.
Buddha.

Classic I love it please tell me use did.

I wish ... well maybe se still could, we have the syringes still.
Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: NorwayGT1 on October 27, 2011, 12:37:36 PM
All we are doing is playing the blame game.. and in the end everyone is as guilty as the next guy! Ppl are to lazy to get their ass up and do something, congress is to rich and happy to make any changes cuz face it who would give them self a pay cut??? ...

Corporate America is the same as congress... once again who will give them self a pay cut???? I know i wouldn't!
This is where the ppl should have done something during the bush/chaynie presidency but hey last time i checked all Americans wait until the last possible min to get anything done lol. thats just the world we live in, when the ppl become more progressive then the country will follow!

For the most part, I agree with this...the problem is us...(talking globally here...since I'm Canadian)...the banks were only providing services that the people were demanding (yes, they could have limited the risk by not allowing people to take loans out for more than the assets were worth...but...)...b!tching about student loans that they can't afford to payback because of lack of jobs...well, maybe they should have looked at the market to see what was required before signing up for education just to check out of society...I mean really, where does an arts degree get you...or a degree in literature...

I started taking Electronics Engineering Technology back in 1989...the market moved away from that requirement (while I was enjoying my beer drinking and woman chasing)...when I came out of school with my debt there were only a hand full of jobs (that went to the guys/gals that were more serious about getting the education), so I was left to get room mates and work odd jobs to get by...eventually one of my odd jobs proved to have an opportunity for advancement...so management here I come...at that point I was 28, married and a kid on the way...stress thru the roof (due to lower pay, high debt and preggo wifey...wow hormones really mess a woman up!!)...time for a change...I took up a trade and haven't looked back...it took me 10yrs to pay off those student loans and by then I had two more kids...

The government didn't save my a$$, I did...I made changes and went through some pretty rough times, but I made it and I think I am a better person for it...and I don't think I am any different from anyone else, I just made a choice and worked my way through the tough bits...

Our society is so focused on "Keeping up with the Jones'", that we don't even see what we already have...quit worrying about getting the latest iPad & that new model SUV with the "Bling Bling" wheels...the bigger house with hardwood and granite counter tops...I was so stuck on achieving that I lost sight of that for a while and I am just as much a consumer as the next guy, but I am working on adjusting my lifestyle so that if things do crap out, I won't get pushed out of my home and have nothing...I will still buy a new vehicle (or maybe a new to me vehicle  ;) ), but I will keep them until maintaining is more expensive (or I'm working on it more than I am driving it) than getting something newer and more reliable instead of every 3-4yrs...quit looking for the next house and actually enjoy the one I have (I've never renewed a mortgage...always have upgraded or moved)...instead of looking to move further up the ladder, just do the best I can with the position I already have...spend more time with the kids, because they aren't kids for very long...

And as for blaming politicians...if you don't vote, you can't b!tch!!

And someone already mentioned that the person that you vote in is really just a figure head...they are told what to do and say by their "advisors" so vote for the party that most matches your personal values, not for the guy that says the right things at that time...it's all just propaganda to get into power...it's the party values that will be the decider...but not voting says that you don't care, and they can do what they want...

Later.

Madjak - in the US most people's votes are irrelevant. Re districting has made sure of that. Winner take all politics has left very little choice.

The second deal is, you vote for the one that aligns with your values. OK there in lies a huge caveat. If you have 2 candidates who are close to your values and you vote for one, guess what, neither of these 2 will win. Happens time and time again.
Occupy fools are protesting what I view as republican actions - while I count them as basically whiny little cry babies I do count them as democrappy cry babies mostly. They are of no relevance to the 2012 election really except if they field a candidate. That will essentially hand the election to Mint/Perry/Backman/Newt/Ron/Herman.

Ineffect that would be the biggest reason I'd vote for anyone on the republican ticket. OWS thinks they are a real community ... sad.

Then they can cry about how no one told them about splitting votes and no one taught them fractions. Then wait till the weather is warmer and come and occupy some irrelevant part of the city. As I know and now y'all should ahve heard too, wall street is not the center of financial process, it is all automated and sitting on some servers in south jersey or in Missouri or in some little 4X8 room in India.

Cool.
Buddha.

Everybody feels that way...in Canada our national voting is usually won before it gets out west...it's just a sheer numbers thing...but if it is close when it comes out here...then we decide...

We only get to vote in a seat for our local area, and yes vote splitting can have a fairly major effect on the vote...but the person with the most votes wins the seat...the party with the most seats wins the race...so no, it's not a direct numbers thing, but if you don't vote then your voice isn't heard at all...even though it isn't clearly heard if you do...

But like I said...if you don't vote, you shouldn't have any right to b!tch...silence isn't deffening in politics, because there is always someone trying to be heard...so if you don't say anything, someone will still win...but you need to speak up and vote...

Just my view...

Later.

If there isn't either one that speaks to me positively or negatively ... I am going to stay away. If I get positively motivated by someone I'd vote for them. If I am negatively motivated by someone I'd vote for the opposition candidate that is most lilkely to win. No sense voting for Buchanan cos you hate Al Bore. In a close election any vote for any one other than the second is a vote for the winner.You hate Al Bore you needed to vote for Bush. And vice versa. A vote for nader is a vote for bush.

Cool.
Buddha.

So explain to me how that is different from not voting...isn't not voting a vote for Bush? (using the same logic)

I just don't see how not voting is better, other than you don't have to move your a$$ down to the voting booth...I'm surprised that you are a non-voter...you always have an opinion, or are you just an arm chair politician?  :icon_razz:

Maybe you should run for office??

Later.

Quote from: madjak30 on October 31, 2011, 09:51:30 AM

The government didn't save my a$$, I did...I made changes and went through some pretty rough times, but I made it and I think I am a better person for it...and I don't think I am any different from anyone else, I just made a choice and worked my way through the tough bits...

It's called WORK madjak.
You "worked" you way through your problems.
Education is wonderful if you can afford it, but not everyone can. Tuff crap. Life is difficult, but that conversation is for another thread.
But a survivor (such as yourself) will endure and frequently excel regardless of how the cards are stacked.
From reading your previous post, I would say your most valuable possessions are things a rich man's money cannot buy anyway. You've done well madjak, and you're probably still moving foward.

As for The Buddha. . .
I'll betcha' his entrepreneurship is the key to his impeccable survival skills.  :cheers:
-Ej-

I really just don't feel bad for these kids there are all kinds of opportunities out there if you aren't sitting on your a$$ at school. Been doing research at my school UCF there are so many resources here  for free (well covered in your tuition) if these kids are not using it then they are stupid! I'm working on a research proposal there are places to go so that a professor will look over it and help you, I need help with formatting and Word they have seminars that teach you how to do it or any other Office program, your interested in undergrad research there is a whole dept to help you figure out what you want to do, want to get into your career a whole center that will help you get your resume together do practice interviews, and networking opportunities invaluable.  I was walking across campus to find the co-op and internship placement center and asked a professor turned out she was a professor in my department and was impressed that I drove the 41 miles one way to come over. She gave me her name and asked if I wanted to do an internship give her a call!

So, yeah if you don't look or try your gonna fail!
Mary

agreed mary. well said. those people occupying this or that. or the unemployed for 2 years etc. takeANY job you can get until your job you lost, or the one that you studied for opens up. if you are able to work that is. and i agree. if you dont vote, youve no right to Buddha Loves You. whether it counts or not, only way youd lose your right to vote, is through your own actions. if you cant get to a polling place you can absentee vote. there are no excuses.

I think yama kinda hit a good point...

Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on October 29, 2011, 09:01:06 PM
it seems to be people get out of school and think theyre qualified to be insta CEO.

They are all expecting to get "special treatment" because they have gone to school...your education gets your foot in the door, not a corner office...they don't realize that they still have to work their way up the ladder!!

It's not that there are no jobs, there are just no jobs that they feel aren't "below" them...people with business degrees still start in the purchasing dept or as an administrator and work their way to team lead, then section manager, then maybe a project accountant...not a junior vice president position... :cookoo:

It's taken me eight years with this company to get where I am, and I'm just at the bottom of the management pole...(maybe one rung up)...even within the same role there are pay scale differences...some of our guys think that once they get to be a Field Superintendent, they should make the same as all the rest...even if they are comparing themselves to a guy that has been a Super for over 10-15yrs...do your time, and prove yourself...that's all I can say...

You have to put in the time to make the dime!! :cheers:

Later.

EXACTLY. i have certifications for motircycle manufacturers that i cannot use now since i cannot legally drive. no shop will hire a personto work on a bike who cannot ride one. ( legally ) that and health is shot but thats another story lol. but youre right. your education, gets your foot in teh door. you are still teh FNG. or sometimes not even that. just a JAFO. the occupy people want the ceo pay.  but then theyll be the person theyre protesting against. so since they want the executives to give it all up, htey can just save themselves some trouble, and work for free. that way they get the job and they get the ceo pay, but they also get to give up what they want others. other than themselves to give up. these people are more LW than RW people. but that would be disrespectful to the LW peeps, il say they are fringe groups. kinda extreme. same group that wants everythign to be equal. , kinda like NDP in canada, or oursocialists here in the US> , want everyone else to give everything. but i wonder how many of them would do as they preach?, if htey bust their ass to get to CEO pos. will they give up 70+% of their pay that they busted arse to get, to someone who refuses to do so. or hasnt yet, OR say they hit hte powerball since they want all things to be equal, will they give up 70% of their winnings ?, i seriously  do NOT see that happening.

Quote from: madjak30 on October 31, 2011, 02:06:27 PM
So explain to me how that is different from not voting...isn't not voting a vote for Bush? (using the same logic)
<snip>
Later.

Yea a non vote = wasted vote = vote for nader = vote for bush. In effect not voting saves you the time.

However I dont vote cos I got my citizenship only 14 months ago. Now I wont vote if there isn't any real difference between the 2 ... like Say Mint vs Obama, meeeh ... Ron Paul get my vote and Michelle Backman means Obama will get my vote. I'd vote for one of the 2 likely ones or not at all ... positive gets my vote and negative gets me to vote for the likeliest opponent.

CEO's are the most over priveleged crap there is. They get dad's $ and go to Harvard for an MBA, then promptly start out as ceo of a small company like the galleon group or BS like that. Their experience as a CEO is what gets them to the next CEO position. Its like being a celebrity. No one works their way up the ladder. They start at the top of the ladder and then get to a bigger and bigger ladder. That's why Idiots like the netflix CEO says he wants to split it into quickster and what not. The fools have no clue. Before you start as the CEO of suzuki, you need to take apart a suzuki put it back together and ride it across town. Like this lady made me coffee @ the grocery store. I told her to tap the basket a few times and wait before yanking the pot. She dumbly asked why ? I said tap it and you'd know. She did, and nice dark coffee ran out. I said that's the best part. That and the first cup. She said great, I dont drink coffee so I dont know. WTF ... however it was @ the bakery and food counter and coffee was just somethign they ahve in the mornings, no need to raise a ruckus there, and she was I dunno 18 - barely. But, sadly I can see that happening @ starbucks as well.

Cool.
Buddha.

We bailed out the banks, Yet Wall Street investment firms still plan to hand out roughly $14 billion in year-end bonuses...of our money...to the people who f---ed it up int the first place. That is a pretty sick state of affairs if you ask me.

This is about occupy westlake (seattle)
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/tax-the-filthy-rich/Content?oid=4837455 (http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/tax-the-filthy-rich/Content?oid=4837455)

This is not one group of people crying about one set of injustices... There is so much BS that goes on in government that if you stop and think about it's pretty scary.

My question though is: What is sitting in a park going to do to change things?

Like take me for example. I am in heart failure due to a genetic disease that is more prevalent in down's syndrome yet $20 says you've never even heard of it . Hank Gathers (sp) died of it and several college atheletes. But, very few people are doing research on it. Why? well, no famous people have survived the sudden cardiac arrest to put their name out to raise awareness. So, according to the Occupy movement I should live in a park carrying a sign about how wrong it is that we are not doing something about it. Or what I am presently doing going into a field and working on a proposal to do the research. Along the way my professors see my passion about it and now there is a personal connection to this disease they tell others about how one of their "sick students" is trying to make a difference. Now my doc in Boston who is a researcher as well has heard about it not from me but my local cardiologist who was impressed. Now he wants to see the proposal when I'm done and I may get a summer internship to actually see the need come to fruition.

Just my thoughts,
Mary

Quote from: JDezle21 on November 01, 2011, 10:27:17 AM
We bailed out the banks, Yet Wall Street investment firms still plan to hand out roughly $14 billion in year-end bonuses...of our money...to the people who f---ed it up int the first place. That is a pretty sick state of affairs if you ask me.

This is about occupy westlake (seattle)
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/tax-the-filthy-rich/Content?oid=4837455 (http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/tax-the-filthy-rich/Content?oid=4837455)

This is not one group of people crying about one set of injustices... There is so much BS that goes on in government that if you stop and think about it's pretty scary.

Yes shocking, I just heard MF global went under yesterday and they apparently paid 64% of their intake in employee pay. And appraently that is very high, average is close to 50. WTF ... you give $ to your investment fund, and they invest 50% of it ... the rest right there is lost. So you ahve a great year, you made say 10% ... you will leave with $55 if you gave them $100.

Oh yea MF's CEO is John Corzine yes, ex jersey guvnor and Goldman sachs ceo, and he has a golden parachute worth 12mill. Easy $$$.

Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: Toogoofy317 on November 01, 2011, 10:58:55 AM
My question though is: What is sitting in a park going to do to change things?

Like take me for example. I am in heart failure due to a genetic disease that is more prevalent in down's syndrome yet $20 says you've never even heard of it . Hank Gathers (sp) died of it and several college atheletes. But, very few people are doing research on it. Why? well, no famous people have survived the sudden cardiac arrest to put their name out to raise awareness. So, according to the Occupy movement I should live in a park carrying a sign about how wrong it is that we are not doing something about it. Or what I am presently doing going into a field and working on a proposal to do the research. Along the way my professors see my passion about it and now there is a personal connection to this disease they tell others about how one of their "sick students" is trying to make a difference. Now my doc in Boston who is a researcher as well has heard about it not from me but my local cardiologist who was impressed. Now he wants to see the proposal when I'm done and I may get a summer internship to actually see the need come to fruition.

Just my thoughts,
Mary

I agree with many of the "occupy" whatever/wherever people's points, yet I'm not spending my time sitting in a park... I'm working (in Washington, under 15k/year paying 17% tax while John Q Millionaire pay less than 3%) because i simply can't afford not too. But with out someone to step in and say this is F'd up, we aren't going to take this it will happen indefinetely. While also being true it's likely little will change as a result of this, I can at least respect people who are willing to give up some of their comforts to TRY and change an obviously broken system.

So why all this unrest now?
"They" have been using us as tools all along.
The methods that John Corzine and the other big dollar manipulators use to foster their operations is not some bran-new scheme.
This perversely unjust business model has been around for a long time.

What changed?
Why all of a sudden are people across the land in protest & outrage?  :dunno_black:

because theres a presidential election coming up.

Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on November 01, 2011, 09:01:56 PM
because theres a presidential election coming up.

If that was the reason they will just do it @ the election. Sorry mate no dice.

The reason more than likely IMHO is that there was an election 10 months ago and they missed it ...

Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: Electrojake on November 01, 2011, 02:32:32 PM
So why all this unrest now?
"They" have been using us as tools all along.
The methods that John Corzine and the other big dollar manipulators use to foster their operations is not some brand-new scheme.
This perversely unjust business model has been around for a long time.

What changed?
Why all of a sudden are people across the land in protest & outrage?  :dunno_black:

For me i feel sooo TINY (is it ironic TINY is the biggest word? :)) compared to all that BS I can't even fathom where or what I would try to change it. The pit between the rich and the poor is widening and it seems like people are getting sick of falling in. Personally, i feel like i have no power to fight it (like many others I'm sure.) because it's so easy to not listen one or a hundred angry voices, but if you have millions of angry people;s voice they can't help but hear the people.

I admire the work ethic of those who continue to grind it out at menial jobs to try and make life better for their families. At the same time you have to realize as long as we keeping grinding ourselves away quietly the "powers that be" (whomever you want to label them as) have no reason to ever change the current model. The gap will widen and widen until it becomes uncrossable, leaving all of us who kept of heads down dutifully doing our jobs stranded. (and you can sure as sh-t bet there's no golden parachute waiting for you and I)

And protesting in some irrelevant corner and asking for sutdent loan forgiveness will accomplish that ?

I think the best way to hit them is where it hurts - aka $. Buy on credit from the big banks and dont pay them. Withdraw you $ - ha, what $. If you have a house with a big bank as the mortgage holder and you are under water or close to it, and even if you aren't remember when defaults occour you will go under - well skip paying it, and squat, and make them get court order after court order to get you out and find out what donut shops the cops in your town hang out @ and buy em a round and let em know you're protesting and hence not paying your mortgage, hopefully there will be a 1000 more in your town and the cops cant evict as fast.

And finally - dont introduce yourself as a third party. Third parties usually end up taking just enough votes from their closest allied party to hand the election to the party that is least allied with them. Align yourself and support the lesser of 2 evils. We need multi party and even then you can end up with very undesirable results. Even in India where true multiparty system exists complete with whipsawing elections and what looks like a round robin of sorts there is a lot of elections where the minority ends up winning cos the majority is split into 3-4.

Protesting in the park is useless, WTF are we Libya ? Tunisia ? Idiots.
Yes you are entitled to a refund of your school tuition cos you've not learned squat. Heck you're entitled to a full refund of everything cos you've not even learnt to think.

Cool.
Buddha.

Reflecting on both of the above posts, it seems that the entire system must collapse before we can get any traction.

Like paying taxes. . .
The only way we could get Washington's attention is if every single person refused to pay their taxes at the same time.
(and that will just never happen)

I get the feeling that the politicians realize they are virtually omnipotent. (http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/mellow.gif)

Quote from: Electrojake on November 02, 2011, 03:32:41 PM
Reflecting on both of the above posts, it seems that the entire system must collapse before we can get any traction.

Like paying taxes. . .
The only way we could get Washington's attention is if every single person refused to pay their taxes at the same time.
(and that will just never happen)

I get the feeling that the politicians realize they are virtually omnipotent. (http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/mellow.gif)

Yea the IRS machinery must be stopped. However that will affect people dependent on services the most and the rich the least. Of course the gubbamint can just print $$$ and replace taxation with inflation, which will affect the rich and chinese the most. Good idea I'd say. Inflation is needed, we have deflation now, awful.
Cool.
Buddha.

OK so they are now occupying a the port of oakland.
Starting to make sense now. They are going to make wall street pay now, by preventing chinese sheite from getting to walmart. Got it. Perfect. Should have them crying in their mansions any day now.
Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: JDezle21 on November 01, 2011, 01:36:30 PM

I agree with many of the "occupy" whatever/wherever people's points, yet I'm not spending my time sitting in a park... I'm working (in Washington, under 15k/year paying 17% tax while John Q Millionaire pay less than 3%) because i simply can't afford not too. But with out someone to step in and say this is F'd up, we aren't going to take this it will happen indefinetely. While also being true it's likely little will change as a result of this, I can at least respect people who are willing to give up some of their comforts to TRY and change an obviously broken system.
[/quote]

What comforts are they giving up? Here in O-Town it's like a big frat party. Weather is beautiful they leave the parks at 2300. If they were doing this in the middle of July I'd be agreeing with you but here they choose October/November for a reason. I also don't believe sitting in a park with a sign is going to change anything.

Mary

Lmao did anyone see the "south park" episode about the 99%???

epic  :D

Quote from: NorwayGT1 on November 03, 2011, 11:06:05 AM
Lmao did anyone see the "south park" episode about the 99%???

epic  :D

No I didn't, sorry man I am too busy protesting by occupying huntersville. You know where the power of the whole world is. Huntersville NC. They have these huge refrigiration units there that makes the whole world go cold for winter. I'm protesting there. They are running full tilt now a days supplying Ice and snow for the north pole so the elves and santa can make toys for christmas.

Cool.
Buddha.

lol buddah tell em to turn that shaZam! down.. i think i froze my left nut off riding around today ha  :icon_lol:

We even have these "occupy" things in Australia.

A bunch of students don't suddenly independently decide to do this kind of stuff. Someone or some group is behind it. Pulling the strings of it. maybe something like the Socialist Alliance or some such. Hmmm... better go grab a copy of Green Left Weekly, nah, on second thought, I do't want to insult my mind.

Michael

AFAIK, the occupy movement has climbed so rapidly that no one has co-opted them. Like the Tea party got co-opted by the Koch brothers - they have tried apparently but not succesfully.

However the movement gaining ground is nothing but bad news for the rest of the working class stiffs. OK so they get loans waived, so good, who pays for that ... exactly.

Cool.
Buddha.

Oh yea the Occupy movement - I think these were the "movementarians" that recruited Homer Simpson ... na na na na na na na leader, na na na na na na na na na na leader.

Cool.
Buddha.

lol ur having way to much fun with this!

Student don't organize themselves, is my point.

Sure, they might do a Party Night or something where booze is 50% off and everyone has a "good" time, a few pick up, a few get lucky, others don't, some stay sober, some blind rotten drunk. But this? Nah, there are some hidden string pullers here. using the students as Useful Idiots.

So I do some research...

Oh looky look. These "occupy" things all seem to have Speakers. So those Speakers needed to be Contacted and Arranged. here is some info on the so-called random spontaneous organising of these occupy things down here...

Any Thomas: member of the Climate Emergency Network, Sydney Uni Environment Collective writer for solidarity.net, co-editor Solidarity magazine, links to Socialist Alliance. Yeah, real independent this one.
Larissa Payne: regular interviewee for Green Left Weekly; activist
Mark Goudkamp: Refugee Action Coalition and Solidarity. By the way, the Green Left Weekly and Socialist Alliance run offices from the same building - Mark writes for the GLW
Claire Parfitt: Works for Greenpeace on their agriculture campaign and is an activist in the refugee solidarity movement and Cross Border Collective
Warren Smith: assistant secretary of the Maritime Union of Australia - links to GLW, SA and Socialist Worker
Daniel Robins: links to Refugee Action Coalition Sydney, hard to find much info on him.

The above people are not the Speakers but the organizers. They all have links to each other, Green Left Weekly and the Socialist Alliance. They are the useful idiots.

Spontaneous indeed  :icon_rolleyes:

Michael

mister, you are on top of your game as usual.
An effective post with lots of specifics.

= = = = = = = = = = = =

Quote from: The Buddha on November 04, 2011, 01:30:45 PM
Like the Tea party got co-opted by the Koch brothers - they have tried apparently but not successfully.
Cool.
Buddha.

Speaking of which. . .
Where is the Tea Party?
They have been completely out of the news since before Herman Cain was exposed as a wife beater.
Or was that a womanizer? Or was it cocaine use?
Just sayin'  :dunno_black:
-Ej-

reading reading reading .. Hmm .. So the protesters fall into my mental category of 'tree huggers' .. Mine you Thats a very wide grouping of mine .. I usually just see them around the place making things untidy and noisy .. Then when or if they ask or offer me pamphlets etc .. Look puzzled and say whatever for? Then simply walk away .. Works with those people that hand out the vote1 blah blah papers at election time .. The day i need to be told WHO i want to vote for or WHAT i should support is the day i should stop doing either
and now Ive rambled my way so i confused myself .. Happens eh!

Quote from: Electrojake on November 05, 2011, 05:32:07 AM
mister, you are on top of your game as usual.
An effective post with lots of specifics.

-Ej-

Thanks, Ej.

Years ago when the Afghan thing was just getting going - or maybe it was the Iraq thing - we had groups down here called "Books Not Bombs" doing Protest Marches. I researched the so-called organizers and spokespeople. It was the same... they either worked for Green Left Weekly or had connections to Socialist Alliance, some even having a history of running for office under the Socialist Alliance party moniker. Some Also had connections to Workers World Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers_World_Party) and other socialist groups and "coalitions".

Michael

Yeah, thanks for the links too.
It gave me an opportunity to take a glance at Workers World Party, and Socialist Workers Party, etc. . .
Scary stuff. This is one of the first boasts I came across;
"It supports affirmative action as necessary in the fight for equality".

Lord knows, people aren't equal at all, and using a standing army of government controlled law officers to force things into their perverse version of equality is some frightening stuff indeed.
Sounds like a buzz-line for 90% of the loafers living off the 10% that will always work hard and be gainfully productive.

The sad part is; there actually is a small percent of people that have mental, physical or unforeseen cash flow hardships and truly deserve government or faith based charity.
The poor souls in need are the ones that get short-changed by the Occupy Wall Street hyenas and their self serving equality bull.  :icon_sad:
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRlBFLv2NMxmZ8x7UqbBJMROIru57ZY7g5RLaTse5moMc79I6uzRNv0xaVwtQ)

books not bombs? .. So sort of like a clusterbomb effect but more papery! .. Reckon a encyclopedia set from 10000 feet would still do some damage .. Be a complete Buddha Loves You to aim well tho .. And for the valentines day strikes some mills and boon paperbacks plus heart shaped mines ... Chuckle chortle

Quote from: Electrojake on November 05, 2011, 04:46:53 PM
Yeah, thanks for the links too.
It gave me an opportunity to take a glance at Workers World Party, and Socialist Workers Party, etc. . .
Scary stuff. This is one of the first boasts I came across;
"It supports affirmative action as necessary in the fight for equality".

Lord knows, people aren't equal at all, and using a standing army of government controlled law officers to force things into their perverse version of equality is some frightening stuff indeed.
Sounds like a buzz-line for 90% of the loafers living off the 10% that will always work hard and be gainfully productive.

The sad part is; there actually is a small percent of people that have mental, physical or unforeseen cash flow hardships and truly deserve government or faith based charity.
The poor souls in need are the ones that get short-changed by the Occupy Wall Street hyenas and their self serving equality bull.  :icon_sad:
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRlBFLv2NMxmZ8x7UqbBJMROIru57ZY7g5RLaTse5moMc79I6uzRNv0xaVwtQ)

agreed  :cry: ( long story lol)

Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on November 06, 2011, 12:42:50 AM
agreed  :cry: ( long story lol)

The negative stigma shed upon the use government assistance is usually caused by those that have never been down and out.
In my middle class world I do pretty good. My wife & I both work full time and it equates to a great lifestyle but things can change in the blink of an eye.

A lay-off, health issues, or an accident changes everything.
Without our lucrative income we would crash and burn in a matter of months. My beautiful house, cars, bikes, savings, all gone. Poof!
It's a delicate balance and I rather not think about it but "life happens".
Sometimes charity (especially when kids are involved) is the difference between carrying a family or person through their hard times and total disaster.

Wonder how much community service the Occupy Wall Street crowd does via their church group?
Wonder if they sign-up for weekly payroll deduction out of their check for charitable contributions at work?
Wonder how often they buy that extra pack of Pampers or case of baby formula at the market to drop at the community food drive each month?
Maybe the Occupy Wall Street crowd should stop trying to save the world and start by helping humans one at a time.
Just a thought,  :whisper:
-Ej- 

i think they should get a job first. and try life out BEFORE complaining that it is too hard for them

Yeah, when people biatch about life being hard I always wonder.... compared to what?

Michael

Quote from: mister on November 07, 2011, 04:20:43 AM
Yeah, when people biatch about life being hard I always wonder.... compared to what?

Michael

The dead I geuss.  The lucky buggers get to lay around all day and do stuff all.

These Occupy clowns are too stupid to understand ... you get change going by voting. You dont vote in the mid term elections you are freaking doomed. In the presidential elections there is no use fielding a third candidate. It will only split the votes of the main stream 2 that are closest to your ideals.
However in a mid term, the occupy candidate can actually get enough votes to win. The Tea party was a good concept till they sold out to the Koch Brothers.
Start there, 2 years too late and clueless as usual "herd".

Cool.
Buddha.

Oh god Buddah dont mention the V word, Mister can only be controlled for so long. But I re itterate my previous post. Shoot them or water cannon them or pepper spray them, or shoot them with bean bags! God damn hippies.

Quote from: aussiegs on November 07, 2011, 03:10:48 PM
But I re itterate my previous post. Shoot them or water cannon them or pepper spray them, or shoot them with bean bags! God damn hippies.

But tell us how you really feel...  :icon_razz:

The protest is a valid form of participating in politics...the practice is to get everyones attention (check), then present a unified message or stance on an issue (ummm, kinda missed on that one)...the problem is, if you go down there and talk to 10 different people you will get 10 different reasons for them being there...

Someone mentioned that a thousand voices may not be heard, but a million would...if the million voices are all saying something different, then it is just noise and noise gets blocked out.

They have lost their effectiveness to reach the public...most people don't care anymore and want them to just go home and "get a job!!"

Just my opinion of course!!

Later.

We can winge gripe and beech all we want but I've accepted the fact that not much is gonba change. The people in power will get there way. Therefore if you can't beat them join them.

Quote from: aussiegs on November 07, 2011, 04:31:43 PM
We can winge gripe and beech all we want but I've accepted the fact that not much is gonba change.
The people in power will get there way.
Therefore if you can't beat them join them.

I always felt the country (or system) would have to hit rock-bottom before a group of patriots would be willing to fight to the death for their cause.
We as a civilized democracy would have to decay well beyond bankruptcy - to near anarchy before there will be any real change.
Most people will gladly give up their freedom & liberty for some false security and a little comfort. (http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/images/smilies/large/smiley_bored.gif)
In the social context , we're all good little subjects whether we like to admit it or not.

There aren't two parties. There is one govt and all voting does is change a few puppets / fallguys/ scapegoats. The underlying remains the same, so nothing changes. The parties aren't two sides of the coin, the are both on the same side of the coin. The machine keeps going no matter who the figure head is. THAT is why nothing changes. That is why voting is pointless.

It's the illusion of choice and nothing more.

Michael

i trolled a few of their videos. saying ive got a perfect solution. GOYBAADS Get off Your Big Ass and Do Something. aka work

Quote from: mister on November 07, 2011, 07:24:59 PM
There aren't two parties. There is one govt and all voting does is change a few puppets / fallguys/ scapegoats.
The underlying remains the same, so nothing changes. The parties aren't two sides of the coin, the are both on the same side of the coin.
The machine keeps going no matter who the figure head is. THAT is why nothing changes. That is why voting is pointless.
It's the illusion of choice and nothing more.

Michael

Exactly. Correct on every count!
As I often try to explain to my right leaning politically active spouse, It's the politicians vs. the people, NOT the conservatives vs. liberals.
"It's the illusion of choice and nothing more"
The politicians are laughing their collective as$es off.

Its the bureaucrats vs the people, the bureaucracy was installed by the politcal class which is funded by the plutocrats.
You cannot get to politicians due to the bureaucrats.

BTW whenever I hear teh word bureaucrats I am reminded of the numb3rs episode where the guy calls FBI as Fools Bureaucrats and Idiots.

Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: The Buddha on November 08, 2011, 03:14:12 PM

... which is funded by the plutocrats.

Plutocrats eh? (http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/glare.gif)
Dam nice wordmanship TB.

Quote from: Electrojake on November 08, 2011, 02:43:39 PM

Quote from: mister on November 07, 2011, 07:24:59 PM
There aren't two parties. There is one govt and all voting does is change a few puppets / fallguys/ scapegoats.
The underlying remains the same, so nothing changes. The parties aren't two sides of the coin, the are both on the same side of the coin.
The machine keeps going no matter who the figure head is. THAT is why nothing changes. That is why voting is pointless.
It's the illusion of choice and nothing more.

Michael

Exactly. Correct on every count!
As I often try to explain to my right leaning politically active spouse, It's the politicians vs. the people, NOT the conservatives vs. liberals.
"It's the illusion of choice and nothing more"
The politicians are laughing their collective as$es off.

Indeed. Divided we fall. The pollies know this. So create a divided populace. Men vs women, brown vs cream, state vs state, north vs south, affinity group vs affinity group, etc. And say it is all in the name of "equality" and XYZ Rights. Harrison Bergeron http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

A brilliant piece of Illusional Choice was down here.... one airport used to have free drop off for taxis and buses and smaller mini-bus type businesses offering airport transfers. They wanted to charge, to go from Free to Charge. A hard sell. So what they did was... okay everyone, you now have four weeks to stump up $3,000 for an annual airport dropoff license. As can be imagined, there was much moaning and the like. So after a week and a half it was announced, okay, you can have the option of paying $X every time you drop off or pick up - or - pay the $3k lump sum. And the "pay per drop" was welcomed with open arms.

They had turned a hard sell - something for free now being paid for - into the people gladly welcoming a piecemeal charge. The illusion of choice. Pay or pay. That's not choice. Brilliantly executed though. Now noone questions the charge.

Michael

Oh yea we have that same thing here too. We have this thing called a 2 party system. Then someone out of the blue can run for president. Then just cos you're on a paper a few million bozo's will vote for you. Then they will spend the next 4 years arguing about how bozo 1 is better than bozo 2.
Cool.
Buddha.

while the occutards cant figure out, best way to make money is to get a job.

Muhahahahah and the best way to lose $$$ is to leave it in an open field under a tent when the cops are comming.

One frui-tard was on radio talking about how the cops put everything he had in a pile whether it was fragile or not. Yea retard ... the cops will do your house keeping job.

I think they are looking for a job though yamahon, in the mean time they want to free load and waive their obligations.

Its like this "solve your problems by getting rid of them" ... the ole "cure insomnia by taking a nap"

Cool.
Buddha.

And apparently the cops cleared out that tent sity cos they wanted to prevent crime etc.

Nice, so that way locking up everyone - all the people in the world should be the best thing to do.

Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: The Buddha on November 15, 2011, 02:16:36 PM
And apparently the cops cleared out that tent sity cos they wanted to prevent crime etc.

Nice, so that way locking up everyone - all the people in the world should be the best thing to do.

Cool.
Buddha.

they could take a job in fast foodFFS. theyre not looking. like the engineers who are laid off. theyre looking for their old job back. while ignoring anything else. take somethign, ANYTHING. while awaiting your dream/ideal job

bhahahha they all got kicked the f%$k OUT LOL!!!!

about time, lazy a holes need to go to work or do something i mean damn.. its one thing to protest on weekends or everyday when you get off of work. But when you camp out in a public park, idk about you guys but i call that homeless lol

They kept shifting the occupy wankers round our city through parks n stuff I havnt heard a peep from them for weeks now I assume their still there. The ones in Melbourne were allowed to stay but there tents were taken.

Quote from: NorwayGT1 on November 16, 2011, 01:18:00 PM
bhahahha they all got kicked the f%$k OUT LOL!!!!

about time, lazy a holes need to go to work or do something i mean damn.. its one thing to protest on weekends or everyday when you get off of work. But when you camp out in a public park, idk about you guys but i call that homeless lol agreed.

i also call that lazy. i keep doing what i can until my disability starts. i refuse to be a bum though. like these ocutards are doing.
like i said. take ANY job one can get their hands on, and spread their spam amongs coworkers. whiel they dont offer up any short and long term proposals to fix what isnt broken. ( theres always 2 ways to fix somehting. even in obummers camp. a short  ( maybe 2 mos) andf a long 2 years? fix. needs both. many on LW want us to revert back to hippy commune style living. cease usage of oil completely. which means there goes their pc, cell phones, anythign electronic and msot foods. 99% of everythign we have, is owed in its makeup , to oil. or its byproducts.

LW doesn't want that at all. Where do you get that - really you need to probably stop blaming Obama for everything from the economy to the temperature.
Economy sucks but that is wall street's doing, regulations against wall street and banks are absolutely required else they will run the thing off the road again, but try to regulate them and they retaliate by choking off lending to small business while still taking in billions in bail out and paying out billions to executives. Regulating them sadly has also lost steam, so the banks are going to get away with it. Obama isn't the reason for it, republicans are, starting with the lack of regulations under bush and now killing the consumer protection agency and blocking elizabeth warren's nomination to it.

"Regulations kill jobs" is their operative and incorrect assesment. Regulations when introduced in the aftermath of a crisis, wihtout the imprisonment of the culprits who broke the rules when regulations were present but never enforced kill jobs.

However I am an insider and I get to see what regulations are doing inside the banks. Banks are waiting to get a friendlier govt in place, then they will be fully let off the hook after which they will likely go right back to where they were in 2005.

Economy sucks, but it sucks less than it would have otherwise, it also sucks less than it did in 2008, it also cannot be much better given the political wrangling. It simply put is the new world order.

Back to the oil question. The LW, RW, AFAIK - they all want to use less oil, especially foreign, but less oil period, solar, wind, ground anything. If I recall sarah palin is also about drilling ... she's all about drilling y'know ... yea ... and Ron Paul is also for getting out of the middle east and well while he's not explicitly said about drilling or about solar/alternative, I would seriously say he's for alternative energy.

Long term we are going to have to really start printing $ cover the deficts, cap SS, medicare/medicaid military, kill insurance industry and do a million other things to get to where we can sustain anything.

The SS and medicare and medicaid boat sailed looooooong ago. I remember a few years ago reading something like this - the first medicare recipient back in 1933-34 something received 32,000 something in benifits over her life time. She paid in $12.
That right there was a losing system.
Broken, fix it or broken, kill it, whatever. Print $ to cover it and dont adjust the payments from SS and medicaid with inflation. That is a good way to grow the economy and keep the medicaid/medicare problem under control.

If you think the realestate problem is bad now wait till 2015 or so. The retirement from baby boozers will flood the market with 70's junk including houses. In my case it is these humongous tanks of audio equipment ... supposedly rare sheite ... and I dont find 1 ... I find em in pairs. Or 3's. Of course since they will all be moving to florida and AZ, that will turn into a hot spot, but the northern tundra ... forget it.

Cool.
Buddha.

hell were blaming obummer for this, liek he was blaming bush for stuff that happened under carter. ( started under carter) hes as equal to blame as bush or anyone is. except for libya, that is his own illegal war lol

Obama isn't blaming bush, for carter initiated problems, AFAIK He's blaming surrent republicans in senate and congress.

IMHO carter is too far off ... I'll blame clinton for 1 part and bush gets the rest. 1 term presidents IMHO should not get much blame unless they are of the same ideology of the previous term. The speed of legislation and regulations around it etc etc are far too slow for a 1 term president to get any more than a couple years of laws through. It was even slower in the 70's.

Clinton claims credit for the 90's growth, I dont agree with that. The growth would have happened regardless of who was in the white house. Clinton set the grounds for real estate speculation, IMHO bush should have killed it but he inflated it. Of course bush was trying to get re elected, and pumping up Realestate was one way to keep unemployment down. Seriously Clinton started that in 98. Time to deflate it was pre 9/11.

Anyway demographics are set so that medicare/medicaid and SS are going to explode, you cant fix it by saying the current benifits wont reduce. The whole system is going to get scrapped. Or we print $ and keep printing till everyone gets paid - and the payments are capped @ what you have paid in, no paying 12 bucks and collecting 30 grand.

Cool.
Buddha.

All countries with a welfar system or tax system are in the same boat. When boombers start retiring there will be a drain in tax-generated income and a demand for welfare type payments (pension, etc.) not to mention the downward trend of the stock market when the boombers want to cash in their 401k or superannuation or whatever else their retirement funds are called.

Of course, one way to reduce the effect is to increase the retirement age by another five years. The govt will know from stats that that will mean X number of fewer people as a certain number of them will have perished in that time frame.

Every market the boombers have gone through has flourished as they went through then declined as they moved on. Retirement homes and the like should be the next Big Thing.

Michael

Shhhhh michael, the occupy Idiots are walking to washington to protest something. I think they want like nicer corporations or something like that. And they should all wear designer clothes ... whatever is the gheyest @ the moment.

I think they are walking to washington state, ecause its the "evergreen" state. The dummies.

Cool.
Buddha.

"One reason why the Occupy movement attracted so much attention...was an innate understanding that it possibly represented a new manifestation of political unrest. And although it didn't gain great momentum, it was closely scrutinized."

http://money.ca.msn.com/investing/deirdre-mcmurdy/the-new-investing-reality

I do think we need some kind of "occupy" like movement ... but the Occupy fools are right up there with the "legalize cannabis" clowns, rapidly becoming fringe ... I do think we need to tar and feather wall street ... sadly I will have to wait.
Cool.
Buddha.

The article I didn't read, but the sign says it all -

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/05/opinion/rushkoff-occupy-wall-street/index.html

Yea you fell asleep ... for like 30 years ...

When you woke up your college debt was 300k and you had a degree in CSI science and there were 18 million just like you.

I dunno I somehow should feel sorry for em, but its more funny and pathetic ... I understand they are looking for work and not finding it - working @ McD's isn't an option cos McD isn't hiring in droves ... nothing will make a dent in the unemployment numbers really. Yea the federal govt can, if they could fund the needed infrastructure build/re building that is needed. But that means govt spending and more debt ...

Anyway in spite of all this reason to take their side, the whole idea of wanting to have their college loans waived ... that is simple freeloading. Anyone who didn't go to college due to $$$ or went and worked to pay it off, or used up mom and dad's life savings etc etc ... yea a big skrew you to them ...

Cool.
Buddha.

If you pay off someone else's unpaid student loans, make sure you give me the money back I spent to pay mine off  :technical:

I'm inclined to agree with Buddha.

Quote from: SAFE-T on November 30, 2011, 10:31:32 AM
If you pay off someone else's unpaid student loans, make sure you give me the money back I spent to pay mine off  :technical:

Right, and there is a lot more like you than them ... they're not the 99% atleast not in this aspect, they are less than the 15%.

The simple thing is ... no one should have been bailed out. Not the banks, not the people who bought 20 houses to "flip" ... the most important thing in dealing with stuff like this is to follow the rule of moral hazard.

If you grant citizenship to Illegals ... that will only cause the flood to increase ...

If you start rewarding people for stealing ... that will cause more theft ...

Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: The Buddha on November 30, 2011, 11:20:57 AM

Quote from: SAFE-T on November 30, 2011, 10:31:32 AM
If you pay off someone else's unpaid student loans, make sure you give me the money back I spent to pay mine off  :technical:

Right, and there is a lot more like you than them ... they're not the 99% atleast not in this aspect, they are less than the 15%.

The simple thing is ... no one should have been bailed out. Not the banks, not the people who bought 20 houses to "flip" ... the most important thing in dealing with stuff like this is to follow the rule of moral hazard.

If you grant citizenship to Illegals ... that will only cause the flood to increase ...

If you start rewarding people for stealing ... that will cause more theft ...

Cool.
Buddha.

Amen Brother!  Glad to know I am not the only one who can see the logic in this.

Oh well you're not ... I am glad I am not the outlier either ... however but for that bone headed idea - which frankly I heard over a month ago in 1 radio show ... I have not heard too many dumb things from that crowd ... they do lack a coherent message though, its more like throw this sheite out there and see what sticks ... some OK and some good and some great and some bad ideas ...

Of course the off shoot movements - like occupy asheville - supposedly they wanted to legalize pot ... WTF ... That is out of left field ...

Then there is the famous ... "I am occupying this place for 5 years ... I'm homeless, you fools show up and trample over my bed/cardboard and ruin my sammich that this nice lady gave me last night thinking if she gave me $$$ I'd buy booze ... Fruck You ... "

Apparently the occupy Idiots in some places have run the homeless out of their park bench ...

Cool.
Buddha.

This guys sums things up nicely.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GmsCdyGD00

Michael

I didn't look in that link mister - cant @ work.

However this link -
http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/12/02/occupys-comforts-draw-u-s-homeless/

Has this part in the body -
Occupy protesters have largely welcomed the homeless in their makeshift communities, touting them as a legitimate part of the 99 percent and sharing food and medical assistance.

Seriously that sounds very logical and very I dunno, nice and heartwarming, of course the homeless are one of the 99% obviously.

Maybe I should stop calling them "we want your 99 cents" ...

Cool.
Buddha.

When you get a chance, do check at the link I posted - here it is again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GmsCdyGD00

99%, 1% more division. Us vs Them, yeah yeah yeah. No clear definitions. Isn't that what saw many without heads in the French Revolution?

Michael

Quote from: reload on October 10, 2011, 09:28:27 AM
its about taking back our country from the corrupt corporate/military/political system.

Hanging out in the streets creating 30 tons of trash someone else has to pick up because you're too lazy and inconsiderate to clean-up after yourself won't solve the problem.  Studying hard, working hard, paying attention, and voting accordingly will fix the problem.  Oh, yeah.  That's too much work.  The reason we're losing our republic is too few people act like they deserve one.  Most of our population doesn't even know what a republic is, especially those in these orchestrated "movements".

And Michael, yes, there is a parallel between this and the French Revolution.  When you don't understand what you're fighting against many innocent people end up dying needlessly.

I think this fits...

Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc'-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

Michael

Mister,

touché Sir :bowdown:

You know there is too many problems with the ... constitution ... and no I am not suggesting we discard it ... however that was written with the intent that whoever becomes an elected leader be it in a local govt or in the federal level ... they do their term/time and go back to their old job. That way also works best ... you get people with real world experience and they go back to their normal life when done allowing for the next iteration of people with real world experience.

However it fails in the face of today's reality.

You have to take a good many months off to get the word out before you get elected, that means you're out of work for 6 months+, then when you're done with your term ... your old job ... well it is now done by a guy in china. You're going to have to find a new line of work ... that leaves you with well, bills ... which never stop.
The quint idea of "people from all walks of life forming the government" all worked when people were all land barons and they didn't have a life that involved credit cards and college expenses for kids and house payments and what not. The modern day career politician is a result of those factors. If they dont get elected, they then have to work for companies that need a politician - aka lobbyist.

I dont know what the occupy movement is, but it is not going to bring about a real change.

Cool.
Buddha.

I agree that there will be little, if any, change from the OWS movement...they missed their opportunity for making a difference about six weeks ago (in my opinion anyway)...six weeks ago, most of us had taken notice and were asking "what is this thing about?"...now, well I really don't care and just want them to go away...and if that means arrests, so be it...they lacked the leadership and unity to come up with a message...other than we are not happy...got that, and I think everyone has their reason to be unhappy with what is happening in the world...

I think they should all be charged and fined for not following the bylaws of camping in a public space...given a criminal record...then they can deal with trying to find a meaningful career, or trying to travel with that on their record...

I know that won't be a popular stance, but I just don't care anylonger (if I ever did)...I'm getting sick of hearing about it in the news (costing our local, state/provincial government dollars just having debate on how to handle it)...do they actually believe that they will have their student loans forgiven and they will put a profit cap on industry, forcing corporations to pass on the surplus profits to social programs?? 

GET A GRIP!! 

:cookoo: :flipoff: :dunno_black:

Later.

The real gripe the occupy movement has - I'd sum up in 1 sentence ...

Employees who make 50K are taxed @ 35%.
Employees who make 50 mill are taxed and 15%.

That was 2 sentences, sorry.

Given that statment I'd seriously say the tax system is not even close to being fair.

The students in California who got pepper sprayed were protesting their university presidents several million salary.

I will be the first to admit some jobs are harder than others. I actually have spent 18 years in this field and the job I am @ for the last year is just about the hardest I have ever done, it also is the most entertaining and interesting, but hard for sure.

I ocassionally stretch into a 45 or even a 50 hour week.

That IMHO deserves a bit extra compensation, say 10% more than the other jobs I have had, but I cannot see any job, however difficult it is, and remember its a job, not a business ... job - JOB - working for some organisation/business/govt etc, needing to pay over 200-300K a yr, the president makes 400K right, I dont see any one who can stand up and say with a straight face they have a job that is so difficult that they need to make 8 million a year and not pay more than 15% in taxes.

For difficulty of the job and the training needed I'd seriously say doctors, especially heart and brain surgeons need to make more $$$ than the president does, all the rest dont.

Again talking jobs - like the CEO of a university or a company - they dont have a difficult job really. Nothing is @ risk, its a job.

Once again given that taxes are levied - yes taxes may be theft - yes I will nod to that, but given that the dude who is fixing electrical lines after the tree fell on it is making 50K and paying 35% I dont see why any bloody CEO isn't charged that same %.

Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: madjak30 on December 06, 2011, 08:58:26 AM
I agree that there will be little, if any, change from the OWS movement...they missed their opportunity for making a difference about six weeks ago (in my opinion anyway)...six weeks ago, most of us had taken notice and were asking "what is this thing about?"...now, well I really don't care and just want them to go away...and if that means arrests, so be it...they lacked the leadership and unity to come up with a message...other than we are not happy...got that, and I think everyone has their reason to be unhappy with what is happening in the world...

I think they should all be charged and fined for not following the bylaws of camping in a public space...given a criminal record...then they can deal with trying to find a meaningful career, or trying to travel with that on their record...

I know that won't be a popular stance, but I just don't care anylonger (if I ever did)...I'm getting sick of hearing about it in the news (costing our local, state/provincial government dollars just having debate on how to handle it)...do they actually believe that they will have their student loans forgiven and they will put a profit cap on industry, forcing corporations to pass on the surplus profits to social programs?? 

GET A GRIP!! 

:cookoo: :flipoff: :dunno_black:

Later.

I actually dont think that 6 week time frame was that important. A true country wide grass roots organisation will have a lot of local twists and turns ... a place that was polluted by the oil spill and hence the shrimp boaters lost their livelihood may be different than where students are protesting the exorbitant salaries of the college administrative staff.

However they started out asking for a waiver of college loans ... there they lost me. Of course they are now making a lot better sense and maybe they will get to the positive sometime.

This isn't a political movement ... so I dont see it doing much of anything - except something bad.
Cool.
Buddha.

Tax is on a sliding scale. but let's imagine it isn't for the sake of the arguement...

$50k at 35% tax = $17,500 in tax
$50mil at 15% tax = $7,500,000 in tax (and you want him to pay more?!??!!!?)

Taxing people's income is NOT the answer. Is isn't now and nor was it ever.

Michael

Quote from: mister on December 07, 2011, 03:35:06 AM
Tax is on a sliding scale. but let's imagine it isn't for the sake of the arguement...

$50k at 35% tax = $17,500 in tax
$50mil at 15% tax = $7,500,000 in tax (and you want him to pay more?!??!!!?)

Taxing people's income is NOT the answer. Is isn't now and nor was it ever.

Michael

Good point mister -
So you're saying -
A family living on 50K a year after 35% tax lives on $32,500.
A family living on 50 million after 15% tax lives on $42,500,000. And you want them to have more ?

Taxing income was not the answer, however it is a simple way to tax - any other method will lead to rampant fraud and extreme complications in people's lives ... and given that income is taxed - you think it should be sliding this much ?

Consumption based tax will be a real beeeyatch to collect and a huge can of worms will be opened up as to what is consumption and what isn't.

Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: The Buddha on December 07, 2011, 07:21:06 AM

Quote from: mister on December 07, 2011, 03:35:06 AM
Tax is on a sliding scale. but let's imagine it isn't for the sake of the arguement...

$50k at 35% tax = $17,500 in tax
$50mil at 15% tax = $7,500,000 in tax (and you want him to pay more?!??!!!?)

Taxing people's income is NOT the answer. Is isn't now and nor was it ever.

Michael

Good point mister -
So you're saying -
A family living on 50K a year after 35% tax lives on $32,500.
A family living on 50 million after 15% tax lives on $42,500,000. And you want them to have more ?

Taxing income was not the answer, however it is a simple way to tax - any other method will lead to rampant fraud and extreme complications in people's lives ... and given that income is taxed - you think it should be sliding this much ?

Consumption based tax will be a real beeeyatch to collect and a huge can of worms will be opened up as to what is consumption and what isn't.

Cool.
Buddha.

Consumption tax - as you put it - is easy to collect. No more difficult than asking every employer and self employed person to take out income tax of all employees.

Again, my income is my property. NO PERSON has a right to just take it as they see fit, no matter what Good Works it is claimed for. As I have said elsewhere, if *I* cannot come into your home and take your money for my needs, then no-one can, even if they wear funny hats, give themselves fancy titles with 'authority" in the same and call themselves govt.

We have Goods and Services tax. A 10% tax on all goods and services at the retail price. If you want to know the tax it is simple to work out. Add 10% of the cost to come up with the selling price. So you want to sell that $275 thing, add $27.50 for GST to get$302.50. If you are a buyer and want to know how much tax is being paid, divide the sale price by 11... $302.50/11= $27.50. Simple as. Much more simple than asking someone to calculate... first $10k earned is tax free, next $7k is taxed at 17c in the dollar, next $10 is taxed at 23c and so on until every dollared earned is taxed at 48c in the dollar.

Taxing people more cause they earn more is a Disincentive.

Income tax is theft, plain and simple. Doesn't matter how you try to justify it, what fancy names you want to call it, it what good-works reasons you want to claim it for, it is still theft. And the govt has no right to take it.

The economy is all about money in circulation. The person who got to keep their $42mil doesn't just hide it in a sock drawer. They spend a good portion of it - on their home, other investment homes (which need to be built) other business activities which Employ People as well as other investments where others manage the money and do similar things with it.

If you buy into the "lets tax them even more" mantra you are falling for the elitists ploy. By putting in larger taxes Now, after they are quite very wealthy and which taxes won't hurt them and they know all the accountants to get out of paying them, the only people then hurt more are those Trying to be better off. thus, they cannot then hope to also join those wealthy ranks cause taxes are taking their income and preventing them.

Michael

Its not that easy to hit people with a consumption tax, cos there are a lot of things that are never recorded.
There is already an underground economy that is escaping taxation to the order of 20% in the US.
Put in a consumption based tax and remove the income based tax and you will easily see that number jump to 50%.

There is a lot of commerce going on via craigslist, stalls @ the side of the road, farms and farm stands, as well as things like flea markets and farmers markets. There is no paperwork for any of those ... and atleast now that is all done on a cash basis with after tax income that atleast has been taxed 1 time. Change that to being taxed @ consumption and you instantly lose that. India was that way back when I was a young un ... it may still be I dont know, and the only resort is in that case to print $ for all govt activity ...

I am fine with that, replace taxation with inflation. But not taxation with another more difficult to track and account taxation.

Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: mister on December 07, 2011, 11:34:01 AM

Taxing people more cause they earn more is a Disincentive.

Michael

Except ... these people produce nothing, they are paper pushers, or to be fair CEO's and executives. They produce lots of cool looking graphs and what not. These are people employed by various companies as executives.

I dont see why a CEO isn't needed to pay 35% when I do. Yes everyone should pay 0% and we should print $ ...
And not paying a CEO 42 million as opposed to just 32million is going to prevent him from showing up @ the office ?

They dont all spend the 42 million either, they get it into trusts and so on and it goes from generation to generation without any record of it.
Cool.
Buddha.

The more and more I think about the way life is and where it's going I believe it's time for a revolution.

Maybe 2012 is the end of old things and the start of new beginnings.

Quote from: ghostrider_23 on December 07, 2011, 08:14:27 PM
The more and more I think about the way life is and where it's going I believe it's time for a revolution.

Maybe 2012 is the end of old things and the start of new beginnings.

yet without a solution to any percieved problems, a revolution wouldnt succeed. so ifOWS, wants payto be equal, then the mailroom clerk can be responsible for paying bills, at said company, can be heldresponsible for expenses as well right?. my opinion isthis. IF a company isnt under any federal bailout arrangement then there shoudl be no control of salaries. HOWEVER if bailed out then all contracts are to be negated. because many of these banks were bailedout yet bonuses were still paid. ( because of contracts ) we bailed out GM, and obummer created shovel ready projects... in mexico.  :cookoo:

I've often wondered why we don't have a flat tax system...everyone just pays 25%, no loop holes...but the graduated taxation system that we have is hard to justify in my opinion...the more you make here in Canada, the more you pay in taxes...you make a personal amount, which is tax free (if you don't make more than this, you don't pay taxes), then it jumps to 15%...then 22%...then  26%...then 29%...(these are just the federal taxes, there are still provincial taxes that are another 10%...)

Sometimes your raise puts you into the next tax bracket and you actually bring home less money...I knew guys that used to take every second Friday off, because their take home didn't change (actually was higher by $10 or something like that)...so really, unless you make a pile more money...there isn't as much incentive to make more...but I'm chasing my career, not just the money (although the money is nice  :icon_twisted: )

As for Buddha being so negative on the CEO & VPs...they have the stressful job of dealing with the shareholders and bean counters...not an easy task...and they need to bleed the company colours...so I really don't have a problem with them making the big bucks...you try and run a company without direction...it will work fine for a small company, but as you grow and diversify...all the "chiefs" want to go their direction and the company starts to get fragmented...that's where the value of good leadership steps in...

Capitolism does work...it may just need some fine tuning in the taxation department...I still don't get the sentiment of hating someone for doing well...it's America, the land of opportunity...go grab a handful!! (can't believe a Canadian has to tell you this... :flipoff: )

:thumb:

Later.

Quote from: madjak30 on December 08, 2011, 09:12:13 AM

As for Buddha being so negative on the CEO & VPs...they have the stressful job of dealing with the shareholders and bean counters...not an easy task...and they need to bleed the company colours...so I really don't have a problem with them making the big bucks...you try and run a company without direction...it will work fine for a small company, but as you grow and diversify...all the "chiefs" want to go their direction and the company starts to get fragmented...that's where the value of good leadership steps in...

Capitolism does work...it may just need some fine tuning in the taxation department...I still don't get the sentiment of hating someone for doing well...it's America, the land of opportunity...go grab a handful!! (can't believe a Canadian has to tell you this... :flipoff: )

:thumb:

Later.

I deal with lots of these annoying people too ... users and managers and problem solvers and what not.

Its not that they dont deserve to make more ... just not 1000 X more.

The tax bracket thing, the thing is only the part that is in the next tax braket needs to be taxed @ the higher %.
Say its 25% for 50K, and 60K its 28%, you need to be paying 28% of 10K and 25% of 50. The whole thing @ 28% I suspect is a canadian phenomenon.

Cool.
buddha.

I think that's how Canada manages to be the most taxed nation (well, one of the most taxed...)...how do you think we can afford our medical system... (I use the term afford loosely...)

:thumb:

Later.

Quote from: The Buddha on December 06, 2011, 07:56:47 AM
...
However it fails in the face of today's reality.

You have to take a good many months off to get the word out before you get elected, that means you're out of work for 6 months+, then when you're done with your term ... your old job ... well it is now done by a guy in china. You're going to have to find a new line of work ...

Err.. in "the old days", people had to take even MORE time to campaign, for any large type of office.
No TV. No Radio. No Internet. No Airoplanes. Not even telephones. Barely even trains. They used to ride back and forth on the back of trains.
google "whistlestop" sometime. Oh wait, meaning polluted over time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistle_stop_train_tour

Anyways, all that combined with what you already said, is why you never have had a "poor" guy run for state or US office.
It would be a great thing if "the internet age" changed that.
You'd still not have a regular 9-5 guy elected. But you might at least have an "independant contractor" type guy run and win.

Quote from: The Buddha on December 06, 2011, 07:56:47 AM

I dont know what the occupy movement is, but it is not going to bring about a real change.

that, is very true though.

In the old days though the politicians family farm was still there before he started campaining and will be there when he's done.
Now not only will his job be out sourced to China, his whole field will be done by machines.

He wont just need a job, he'd need a whole new field and probably never get back to his original situation.
Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: madjak30 on December 08, 2011, 09:12:13 AM
I've often wondered why we don't have a flat tax system...everyone just pays 25%, no loop holes...but the graduated taxation system that we have is hard to justify in my opinion...the more you make here in Canada, the more you pay in taxes...you make a personal amount, which is tax free (if you don't make more than this, you don't pay taxes), then it jumps to 15%...then 22%...then  26%...then 29%...(these are just the federal taxes, there are still provincial taxes that are another 10%...)

Sometimes your raise puts you into the next tax bracket and you actually bring home less money...I knew guys that used to take every second Friday off, because their take home didn't change (actually was higher by $10 or something like that)...so really, unless you make a pile more money...there isn't as much incentive to make more...but I'm chasing my career, not just the money (although the money is nice  :icon_twisted: )

As for Buddha being so negative on the CEO & VPs...they have the stressful job of dealing with the shareholders and bean counters...not an easy task...and they need to bleed the company colours...so I really don't have a problem with them making the big bucks...you try and run a company without direction...it will work fine for a small company, but as you grow and diversify...all the "chiefs" want to go their direction and the company starts to get fragmented...that's where the value of good leadership steps in...

Capitolism does work...it may just need some fine tuning in the taxation department...I still don't get the sentiment of hating someone for doing well...it's America, the land of opportunity...go grab a handful!! (can't believe a Canadian has to tell you this... :flipoff: )

:thumb:

Later.

the left wing and occutards, want all the benefits of those htey despise. aka hte ceo's , and dont want the work involved. they want mail room responsiblity amd ceo benefits. doesnt work liek this anywhere. unless you are doing something not morally right. my taxes went up under obummer. idprefer a flat tax as well. or a return to the gold standard. basicallyt run this country like a small business. spend no more than you make. anyhoo, i agree. theceo is responsible to me the shareholder. i bought oneshare of Govt motors after obama sold it to the unions. ( should have let them go bankrupt first, to void contracts.)THEN get involved. sicne they did this, hte stuimulus went to mexico. the tards want more money? you go after a promotion, you get mroe money, not enough? work harder.

I believe that the occupy people should be given a day to leave all the places that they are staying then have the police cone in and move them, and arrest them and put them in with real criminals. These bunch of hippies are costs $10,000's a day. If they wanted a job they should have went into a trade. I worked through my a.a.s degree andhad o ly $6,000 on loans to pay off. work while your going to school. My brother has a a.a.s, bachelor's, and a master's degree, he only has $45,000 in loans. when my son gets older he is going to have to work while he goes to college. Bottom line you should go to college to learn more and get a degree, not like the movies where college is one big party I took 23 credits a semester and work 30 plus hours a week. It sucked but I got it done. If your life sucks then you have no one to blame but yourself. For 99% of people anyway.

Quote from: mister on December 04, 2011, 11:46:21 AM
I think this fits...

Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc'-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

Michael

We can call it whatever we want but it's communism/socialism, pure and simple.  Early communists learned that too many millions of people starve to death when you put them under a communist system immediately, so socialism was invented by Stalin to do it more slowly, to make it less horrible on its way to its eventual goal.  Say whatever you want but that's the record of socialism/communism.  It's brought more suffering, persecution, and death to more people all over the world than any disease, natural disaster, or anything else mankind has ever encountered.

Quote from: knowles on December 10, 2011, 12:02:13 PM
I believe that the occupy people should be given a day to leave all the places that they are staying then have the police cone in and move them, and arrest them and put them in with real criminals. These bunch of hippies are costs $10,000's a day. If they wanted a job they should have went into a trade. I worked through my a.a.s degree andhad o ly $6,000 on loans to pay off. work while your going to school. My brother has a a.a.s, bachelor's, and a master's degree, he only has $45,000 in loans. when my son gets older he is going to have to work while he goes to college. Bottom line you should go to college to learn more and get a degree, not like the movies where college is one big party I took 23 credits a semester and work 30 plus hours a week. It sucked but I got it done. If your life sucks then you have no one to blame but yourself. For 99% of people anyway.

I am nearly sure the british thought of gandhi this way too.
I cant agree with the occupy but I dont agree with pepper spraying them either. Maybe enforce the rules of littering and what not that are in place, have a light police perimeter and what ever. Its their right to assemble in peace and yell and scream slogans ... cant deny them that. They however cant litter, block traffic or impede other activity.
Cool.
Buddha.

While I don't agree with pepper spray, it's a lot nicer than the firehose that use to be used on protesters.

Today is much more tame than back in the 60's and cops don't get away with as much now as they did back then either.

:technical:  think about the picture but replace the computer.

Well I think there oughta be a national rule on the occupy thing.
Apparently in Charlotte they were thinking they found a loophole in the law and were going to "occupy" and then the loophole turned to be invalid. This sorta crap only encourages lawsuits.
Then a few weeks ago 4 punks - 17-19 yr olds burned the american flags near the occupy encampment, and the occupy people made it clear they were not part of the occupy.

Anyway the BS has to be streamlined. I dont think they should be dispersed, I think its time for Obama to show some leadership even if he may not agree with them, they do have a right (limited to where they dont impede others rights) to "occupy". And it cant vary from one city to another.

Cool.
Buddha.