I'm going to give this it's own thread rather than cluttering up the "what have you done to your bike this week thread" with updates.
Somewhere in amongst 75 hours of split shifts last week, I managed to get a bit done on my bike, but don't really feel like I've achieved much. If anything I've moved backwards. Those following the story will recall my charging system died, frying the DC connections on the regulator on the way out. I tested a few things and confirmed I was getting my 60+ volts of AC power out of the stator with no obvious shorts, so AC power in tick
Battery seemed to be ok, and was even capable of running the bike around town all day with no charge, provided it was recharged overnight on the trickle. The battery voltage barely drops when the starter engages. Battery Tick.
Installing a second hand regulator did nothing, so rather than pay stupid Australian prices for a new one, I had a Mosfet regulator shipped over from the states, which worked out cheaper than a stock regulator here. While i was waiting for my regulator I replaced any other bit of wiring I was unsure about, so I made new battery leads, and the regulator is now wired straight to the battery. Wiring Tick
So while riding my rechargeable hybrid electric bike to work last monday night I encountered a new problem. Anything over 4000 RPM feels like it's shaking itself to pieces. I feel vibration through the footpegs, tank and bars. The mirrors are completely blurred. If you've ever used a jackhammer you'll know the sensation. This isn't just an electrical problem any more. I made it home and pushed it back into my garage.
I discussed the new issues with my mechanic and we're hoping it's a cam chain issue. Anything more serious and I'll probably be looking for a second hand engine. I wanted to at least sort out the electrics before handing it over for more serious diagnosis, so I fitted the new regulator, started her up and got no indication of charge at all. Checked the AC voltage, nothing doing. Checked further up the line where the stator connects to the main harness. Nothing. While I was chasing regulator and wiring issues, the stator seems to have now died as well. And I have an as yet undiagnosed horrible vibration in my motor.
Is there any chance this is all related? Am I about to find bits of my stator floating around the crank? What shall I disassemble and pretend to understand today?
Have you done a search for "goats"?
The goat was in the back of my mind already. A horrible engine vibration coinciding with the death of the stator does make it a possibility.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we9_CdNPuJg
Ok kids after work this evening I'm going to pull some covers off and report back on the condition of stuff, or I might hand the whole basket case over to the workshop and get their opinion. I've gone from chasing an electrical issue to possibly needing a new motor, depending on what we find. Hopefully it doesn't come to that, but I'm keeping that option open.
Good luck mate!
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t23/Cosimo_Zaretti/DSC_0510.jpg)
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t23/Cosimo_Zaretti/DSC_0509.jpg)
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t23/Cosimo_Zaretti/DSC_0508.jpg)
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t23/Cosimo_Zaretti/DSC_0506.jpg)
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t23/Cosimo_Zaretti/FeralGoatDM_468x487.jpg)
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb442/adidasguy/Videos/head_hurts_kr.gif) (http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb442/adidasguy/Videos/chduh.gif) (http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb442/adidasguy/Videos/wacko.gif)
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damn those goats..
i'm pulling a 2006 engine apart soon. crank and piston's probably shot, but the flywheel/magnets/adhesive looks good. let me know if you need any parts
bike slang translator needed: what is a goat?
and WHAT was that ugly crud, and what was it on?
Quote from: Phil B on November 03, 2011, 11:31:34 AM
and WHAT was that ugly crud, and what was it on?
That
was a magnet.
BUGGER!
I wonder if there's any chance I'll get away with a new flywheel and several oil changes. It seems unlikely looking at the magnetic crud on the cogs. I don't have the workshop setup to rebuild an engine, and probably can't afford to have someone rebuild mine. I might however be able to carefully disassemble, clean and reassemble to get all this crap out of my engine and gearbox.
I'll get some quotes on a rebuild and on a second hand motor and then see where that leaves me.
Sorry to hear about your engine. Wish you the best
Right I've located a running engine at a wreckers, it's still in an 08 model bike and they'll give it to me with the engine electrics and carbs still on it, so it should be more or less plug and play. Since the later model has the electronic tacho pickup I'm going to run the later model tacho, and I might try and get the wiring harness from the donor bike as well, just to cover myself.
I'm thinking the 08 model might have an oil cooler as well. Do I have to run one, or can I just plug up the holes? Any other parts I'll need from the donor to cover myself?
Edit- It's just occured to me that if I want to use the donor engine's carbs, I may need to get the fuel and vac lines, just to make sure everything hooks up ok. Maybe I should just get some generic hoses and clamps, so I can fabricate whatever's required. Is the airbox the same? Otherwise pod filters ftw (which then requires rejetting, sigh)
I'm not sure what year model you have now, but if its got a mechanical tacho there are a few issues to do the swap. You've identified some, but there is also the TPS (throttle position sensor) and associated wiring..I think it has some effect on the ignition timing but :dunno_black:. There are also connections to the shift drum that change something if you're in 1st or 2nd gear...to use that you'd need the gear position sensor thingy behind the sprocket cover as well.
Its possible you could just leave off a lot of this extra crap, (I'd probably use the TPS but ditch the gear sensor) but you'd need to talk to someone who has done it or at least knows more than I do. The more wiring and ancilliaries you can get them to donate from the donor bike the better.
It would have an oil cooler if it was a faired model, but its not an issue. You could either get the cooler and brackets and use it, or just blank off where the hoses connect to the motor and ignore it.
If you want to talk about it, I'm on 0419233025 or 0266859038.
Cheers, David.
Thanks, that gives me a bit to think about. I'm looking at swapping a 2008 motor into a 1995 bike, which I will then have to have blue slipped with the new engine number (more paperwork, hooray). Sounds like the later bike has a much more complicated ignition system, most of which I can hopefully run without.
I did get this bike to learn on, and this is part of the learning experience.
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t23/Cosimo_Zaretti/2011-11-06235231.jpg)
Experience tells me that was the easy part.
Edit - I should have a new motor by Wednesday. I plan on using my original carbs for expediency if anything at all looks different in the plumbing. I'm hoping to use the original ignition control module and coils, that way all I need from the new motor is a signal from the pulse generator, and if it looks at all different in there I'll swap in my pulse generator as well. Then all I need is that one wire to the neutral switch and we should be all good. Running with the 1995 ignition should hopefully mean the gear position switch and TPS are irrelevant. I was pretty happy with the system I had, it was crude but effective.
I might be shifting by feel initially till I get the tacho issue sorted out. Not sure if I'll be getting the donor bike's tach or not, or how complicated it will be to make it work on my bike.
TPS: http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=58260.0 (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=58260.0)
So it looks like you could use the new carbs and ignore the TPS, but I think your idea of using all the old stuff as much as possible is valid.
I wouldn't be concerned about the tacho, mine didn't have one when I got it and I rode it for a year until I found a cheap one. Its something you really don't need as its obvious when you get past the max power point and the redline is well beyond that. I really only use it occasionally to check which gear I'm in.
hey, where abouts are you located? im thinking its in australia somewhere
We're in Australia somewhere.
Getting it out is the easy part yeah. As long as you're careful when you get your new engine all wired up, pull off the stator cover (along with the head cover) and it's a lot easier to get the engine back in. Take lots of pics and do a journal/write up so if you miss a step or need to know how it was, you've got the pictures there.
As for your tacho, this is listed on ebay as a speedo, but he seems to be selling both, not a bad price if it all works.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SUZUKI-GS500-SPEEDO-SPEEDOMETER-KMS-KILOMETERS-GS-500-04-05-06-07-08-09-/140628820346?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20be21817a (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SUZUKI-GS500-SPEEDO-SPEEDOMETER-KMS-KILOMETERS-GS-500-04-05-06-07-08-09-/140628820346?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20be21817a)
mm just need to put the gauge into your frame as the frame on that one is a little bent, i got a headlight off that guy last week
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t23/Cosimo_Zaretti/2011-11-10204049.jpg)
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I had to work last night so I didn't get straight into it, it's just sitting there waiting for me to get a few hours off. I came away from the wrecker with the motor, stator, carbs, starter motor basically all the bits, as well as a ventura rack for $640. The guy I bought it off advised me to use the donor carbs, ignore the TPS, and use the '95 pulse sender. He suggested I may want to swap the diaphragm caps off the older carbs to simplify the plumbing.
I can live without the tacho for the moment, and I may take this opportunity to start thinking about a custom gauge cluster, cos the two flower pots on the front of the GS have been annoying me for a while.
Well the real world got in the way, and between working, a bit of travelling and having to sort out my car I left this project for over a month.
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t23/Cosimo_Zaretti/Bikeprogress.jpg)
I put the new motor in pretty much as soon as I got it, and then that's how it sat till the new year.
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t23/Cosimo_Zaretti/damagedsidecover.jpg)
The donor engine was from a stat write off bike (never to be used on road again) so I hope the rider fared better than the bike. It looks to have had a low side at some speed, into gravel by the side of the road.
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t23/Cosimo_Zaretti/pulsesenderfullofdirt.jpg)
So this was what I found under the rotor cover. The bike must have really buried itself into the dirt when it ran out of road. I really hope the previous owner was wearing leathers. I got one of those awesome cyclone vacs for christmas that will suck up a pile of bolts, so I vacuumed it out as I dissasembled. The crash also slightly damaged the rotor bolt, so I had to file it down to get a socket around it.
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t23/Cosimo_Zaretti/installingpulsesender.jpg)
The earlier twin magnet pulse sender is a straight bolt in, the rotor slots straight onto the crank and all the mounting holes are in the same place for the plate. Nothing to drill. I was pretty pleased when I then hooked up my CDI box, put a spark plug on the end of a lead and grounded it while I cranked the engine. We have spark.
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t23/Cosimo_Zaretti/carbson.jpg)
I used the 1995 carbs, and there really is a lot of daylight behind them as you can see here. It's just crying out for twin K&N cone filters. I hooked up the tank and gave it a go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LBPtRmGC88&feature=related
No idea how to imbed stuff in this forum
This is where the bike's at this morning. I took it for a run last night, the revs hang a little, but it seems to be improving. I'm hoping that's something in the carbs loosening up. They're a PITA to get at if there's a leak around the boots, so I hope I can sort it out without taking them off again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjQW-6dMDqM
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t23/Cosimo_Zaretti/Forkseal.jpg)
And of course a fork seal just went, which means I'm next to no chance of getting it over the pits tomorrow, so no putty run for me this weekend unless I want to ride with an illegal engine.
Looking good! Doesn't it feel great to get that shiny (dirty) engine in there and get your hopes up that your bike will soon be perfect?
Hanging revs is usually from an incorrectly set idle screw. The proper way to adjust is to ride it around for 15 minutes to get it warmed, then set the idle to 1200rpm. First things first, put your tach cable on!
:cheers:
Yeah it feels pretty good that something I put together actually runs, and hasn't set the neighbourhood on fire yet.
No tacho for me unfortunately, the 08 motor has a digital tach, so the spot where the tacho cable used to be is blanked off. Because I chose to run the pulse sender and CDI box from the 95, I don't have a plug and play option for the later model tacho either. The plan is to get an aftermarket tach and piggyback it in somewhere. Just gotta either find one the right size, or make myself a custom cluster.
Does make tuning the carbs annoying. I know the GS well enough that I think I can get pretty close by ear, but it'd be nice to see the needle.
I was waiting for a tach cable to come in when I swapped, so I went on to youtube to try and tune the idle when mine was hanging. It's not the greatest, but it works.
Well I managed to get the idle ok. I think it may still be a little lean, especially on a cold motor but I have to be pushing it hard to notice any difference. Once warmed it up it runs like a champ. I'll keep the 1995 carbs on it for the moment, and keep the 2008 carbies for later tinkering.
Things I have learned that we were speculating on.
1. Yes you can fit an old 2 pickup pulse sender to the newer motor. Just use the older CDI box and you're good to go.
2. The older style carbs slot straight in on the later model motor. No need to swap the boots.
Mission accomplished for now, although until I get the thing properly certified the new motor is technically an illegal mod.