So I'm a little confused about what happened to my clutch. Here's the story: I was on my way to work on the freeway and I was going to shift from 5th to 6th, I heard a pop and I got stuck in between the gears so it was like I was in neutral. I finished off the shift without using the clutch. I got off the freeway and tried to downshift, but there was no pressure in the lever so I had thought that my cable broke.
Later during inspection my cable is fine and fully in tact with no fraying, when I squeeze the clutch lever there isn't any pressure, but it returns to the normal position just like any other clutch lever. So, does anyone know what might have happened?
If you would have thrown the chain I would have said "bent push rod". When you pull in the clutch does the case over the CSS bow out?<grasping@straws
I'm not exactly sure what the CSS case is, but I took the two screws off the left side case to open that small compartment and when I squeeze the clutch it twists counter clockwise and moves inward, towards the engine.
CSS=Counter Shaft Sprocket, I have seen a bike in the past where the cover over the CSS was only held on by 2 or 3 fasteners on one side, whenever the clutch was pulled in the cover bowed out. The little cover is for the rough clutch adjustment (see photo) Is your push rod intact?
(http://home.comcast.net/~stykers/clutchad.jpg)
Take off the cover over the clutch mechanism and sprocket (it's the piece that the small oblong piece you unscrewed is in).
The piece you're looking at behind the small cover, when it turns it pushes a rod (hence, a 'pushrod'). What the previous poster's suggesting is that this pushrod could be bent. If it is, you should be able to tell by sliding it out (just pull it out) and looking at it.
Oh okay, I get it. I'll look when I get some time on my hands. Thanks again everyone.
So, turns out that the push rod has exploded into 4 pieces, 3 of which I have, but the 4th piece is lodged into the hole that the push rod goes into (on the engine side) and I can't get it out. What could I do to get it out?
If you can find a magnet small enough, that'd be the key. <Good idea
Turn the bike sideways and bang on it < Bad idea
Put industrial glue on your old piece and try to fish it out <Bad idea
Otherwise you'll have to take the right side engine cover off and take off the clutch springs to get at it. <Best idea
Would push rod explosion be caused by anything specific, or just something that everyone should expect to happen?
Quote from: Dizzledan on November 30, 2011, 03:50:38 PM
If you can find a magnet small enough, that'd be the key. <Good idea
Turn the bike sideways and bang on it < Bad idea
Put industrial glue on your old piece and try to fish it out <Bad idea
Otherwise you'll have to take the right side engine cover off and take off the clutch springs to get at it. <Best idea
I'm going to go with magnet and glue haha
Quote from: PolarBZ on November 30, 2011, 06:59:12 PM
Would push rod explosion be caused by anything specific, or just something that everyone should expect to happen?
I don't know, but when it happens, it sucks.
(http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af336/ragecage23/clutch.png)
Is it number 19 or 20 that i need? I'm thinking it's 20.
As long as you pulled out a whole pushrod from your sprocket side (#19), I'd think you'd need part #20 as well. Even if you do get all the bits out of the hole, I'd still take the clutch cover off to inspect things, and to make sure that none of the pieces are botching up the gears in there and otherwise causing havoc. Taking the cover off is pretty easy, but you do have to drain the oil and take your time.
Quote from: Dizzledan on December 01, 2011, 08:15:16 AM
As long as you pulled out a whole pushrod from your sprocket side (#19), I'd think you'd need part #20 as well. Even if you do get all the bits out of the hole, I'd still take the clutch cover off to inspect things, and to make sure that none of the pieces are botching up the gears in there and otherwise causing havoc. Taking the cover off is pretty easy, but you do have to drain the oil and take your time.
Oh okay, good point. I'm just not very mechanical savvy. I'll do what I can.
So magnet and glue didn't work. I'm going to attempt to take the engine cover off. This will be my first time doing anything major like this so can anyone give me any important tips? I don't even know where to start.
Quote from: ragecage23 on December 30, 2011, 01:49:00 PM
So magnet and glue didn't work. I'm going to attempt to take the engine cover off. This will be my first time doing anything major like this so can anyone give me any important tips? I don't even know where to start.
Drain the oil first. Before you go taking that thing apart find yourself a shop manual. Most Suzuki dealerships should have one for you, if not, you can order one. They're about $30-40, depending. And let me tell you...they're worth EVERY penny. Clymer is pretty good from my experience.
But STOP! There's a better way to get the stubborn bugger out. It's a long shot but see if you can find a REALLY powerful magnet and put it on the end of the "good" piece of the rod and put it down in there. You might be able to get it to come out. Another option might be to see if you can get a metal coat hanger and use a magnet. Harbor Freight and Northern Tools both sell really big magnets for next to nothing.
Something else you might try is a TINY amount of super glue on the tip of the good part. Make sure it's just a DROP or else you'll risk getting super glue in your motor. Not good! :technical:
Quote from: ragecage23 on December 30, 2011, 01:49:00 PM
So magnet and glue didn't work.
Quote from: Kijona on December 30, 2011, 06:40:32 PM
...find a REALLY powerful magnet and put it on the end of the "good" piece of the rod and put it down in there.
Quote from: Kijona on December 30, 2011, 06:42:24 PM
...a TINY amount of super glue on the tip of the good part.
:technical:
How much of this thread did you read?
:icon_lol:
All kidding aside, Kijona is right about the manual. I have a haynes and its the number one tool that gets used when working on my bike.
If you want the manual and buy from this link:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0892878339/gstwincom
GSTwins get some money.
As for the engine case removal, I made a clutch replacement video that show the case removal here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUgg2UN3gC4
Quote from: Dizzledan on December 30, 2011, 07:48:59 PM
Quote from: ragecage23 on December 30, 2011, 01:49:00 PM
So magnet and glue didn't work.
Quote from: Kijona on December 30, 2011, 06:40:32 PM
...find a REALLY powerful magnet and put it on the end of the "good" piece of the rod and put it down in there.
Quote from: Kijona on December 30, 2011, 06:42:24 PM
...a TINY amount of super glue on the tip of the good part.
:technical:
How much of this thread did you read?
:icon_lol:
All kidding aside, Kijona is right about the manual. I have a haynes and its the number one tool that gets used when working on my bike.
If you want the manual and buy from this link:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0892878339/gstwincom
GSTwins get some money.
As for the engine case removal, I made a clutch replacement video that show the case removal here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUgg2UN3gC4
I read all of it ;) I was suggesting a specific type of magnet AND glue. Maybe he didn't use a powerful enough magnet or some other type of glue! Just trying to help.
Yeah I know, just yanking your chain :cheers:
Quote from: Dizzledan on December 30, 2011, 07:54:39 PM
Yeah I know, just yanking your chain :cheers:
Lol okay. :P Well consider my chain yanked. :flipoff: :D
Quote from: Kijona on December 30, 2011, 06:40:32 PM
Quote from: ragecage23 on December 30, 2011, 01:49:00 PM
So magnet and glue didn't work. I'm going to attempt to take the engine cover off. This will be my first time doing anything major like this so can anyone give me any important tips? I don't even know where to start.
Drain the oil first. Before you go taking that thing apart find yourself a shop manual. Most Suzuki dealerships should have one for you, if not, you can order one. They're about $30-40, depending. And let me tell you...they're worth EVERY penny. Clymer is pretty good from my experience.
But STOP! There's a better way to get the stubborn bugger out. It's a long shot but see if you can find a REALLY powerful magnet and put it on the end of the "good" piece of the rod and put it down in there. You might be able to get it to come out. Another option might be to see if you can get a metal coat hanger and use a magnet. Harbor Freight and Northern Tools both sell really big magnets for next to nothing.
Thanks, I used the magnets that pick up bolts and stuff when you drop them into engine compartments of cars. I'm really not trying to buy something that I can't use later so I'll just go with the manual for now.
Quote from: Dizzledan on December 30, 2011, 07:48:59 PM
Quote from: ragecage23 on December 30, 2011, 01:49:00 PM
So magnet and glue didn't work.
Quote from: Kijona on December 30, 2011, 06:40:32 PM
...find a REALLY powerful magnet and put it on the end of the "good" piece of the rod and put it down in there.
Quote from: Kijona on December 30, 2011, 06:42:24 PM
...a TINY amount of super glue on the tip of the good part.
:technical:
How much of this thread did you read?
:icon_lol:
All kidding aside, Kijona is right about the manual. I have a haynes and its the number one tool that gets used when working on my bike.
If you want the manual and buy from this link:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0892878339/gstwincom
GSTwins get some money.
As for the engine case removal, I made a clutch replacement video that show the case removal here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUgg2UN3gC4
Thanks for the video, but the part that I need is on the left side.
I'm going to make a short little video real quick just to clarify what I'm talking about.
Here it is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GIECYTcA2c
Quote from: ragecage23 on December 31, 2011, 02:12:49 PM
Here it is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GIECYTcA2c
Hell dude...it's RIGHT there! All you need is a reverse drill bit or something...or maybe clean it up real good and see if you can use some heavy duty epoxy and glue something onto the end of it. I know this has been mentioned before but I was under the impression it was broken off somewhere between one side of the motor and the other.
Also, if none of the above works...you'll have to remove the RIGHT side of the crank case as others have mentioned, remove the clutch components, and push it out from the other side.
That seal is tight. Oil on the other side.
A cylindrical Neodymium magnet might grab enough to pull it out.
It shouldn't be in that far, so something is broken.
I'd vote to drain the oil, take off the right side and inspect everything as you get that thing out. You gotta have something wrong in there unless that shaft broke off and what's inside is all that's left. Still, if it broke off, you should check the clutch parts. Those shouldn't snap off (or be in that far).
Really, the question is: how did it break? Did the chain climb over the sprocket? Did the cover get installed incorrectly? There should be no radial forces on that pin, only axial.
Quote from: adidasguy on December 31, 2011, 04:59:13 PM
That seal is tight. Oil on the other side.
A cylindrical Neodymium magnet might grab enough to pull it out.
It shouldn't be in that far, so something is broken.
I'd vote to drain the oil, take off the right side and inspect everything as you get that thing out. You gotta have something wrong in there unless that shaft broke off and what's inside is all that's left. Still, if it broke off, you should check the clutch parts. Those shouldn't snap off (or be in that far).
Damn. You're right...I didn't even think about the oil seal... and yeah, he said that it broke off right there, it's not pushed in.
OP: Yeah I'm with Adidas, man... take the right cover off and make sure everything's okay.
So if I take off the right side I should be able to see the push rod and I could just push it back out? Also, what are bad things that I should be looking for while inspecting it?
To Paulcet: It may have been the chain. Before I just installed this new chain I was milking the other chains lifespan (It was super loose)
Quote from: ragecage23 on January 01, 2012, 01:21:02 PM
So if I take off the right side I should be able to see the push rod and I could just push it back out? Also, what are bad things that I should be looking for while inspecting it?
To Paulcet: It may have been the chain. Before I just installed this new chain I was milking the other chains lifespan (It was super loose)
You'll have to get into the clutch to get at it. As far as inspection goes...look for broken bits of metal anywhere within the clutch area.
Ok, if it was the chain that broke the rod, you might be lucky. If it was me, and I knew it was the chain, and the rod I got the rod out and it was not bent, I would stop there. But that's just me and that's a lot of "ifs".
Quote from: Paulcet on January 02, 2012, 07:33:27 PM
Ok, if it was the chain that broke the rod, you might be lucky. If it was me, and I knew it was the chain, and the rod I got the rod out and it was not bent, I would stop there. But that's just me and that's a lot of "ifs".
My guess is the chain had too much slack in it and jumped off the counter sprocket and smacked the rod.
It could've also just been coincidence and it had a stress crack in it or something.
Do I have to replace the gasket or can I reuse it? The bike is an '09
So I have the case off right now and I don't see where the push rod goes to. Can anyone help? I'm not familiar with how any of this works.
As far as broken pieces everything seems fine.
Sorry, afraid I can't be of much help on the location of the end of it as I've never taken mine apart.
However, I would strongly suggest that you replace that gasket. Also, be careful handling the gasket, new or old. My dealer's manual for my 98 (really a 97) has a big warning about asbestos in some of the gaskets, and the side cover gasket is one of them. I dunno if they changed that or not but...like I said, be careful!
Alright, I'll get one of those. I can't see where the push rod even pushes on anything.
Take off the clutch pressure plate ,That is the round lump with 6 bolts in it ,undo bolts evenly and underneath you will find spacers and springs remove carefully and underneath that you will find the clutch release bearing .pull it off by hand and dont loose the thrust washer ,make sure you put the trust washer back facing the way you took it off as the surface should be niceley polished from use .UNDERNEATH is the pushrod pusher pull this out by hand and you will have access to end of pushrod ...TORQUE the pressure plate bolts up ,4 to 6 nm.
Quote from: twinrat on January 04, 2012, 11:52:21 PM
Take off the clutch pressure plate ,That is the round lump with 6 bolts in it ,undo bolts evenly and underneath you will find spacers and springs remove carefully and underneath that you will find the clutch release bearing .pull it off by hand and dont loose the thrust washer ,make sure you put the trust washer back facing the way you took it off as the surface should be niceley polished from use .UNDERNEATH is the pushrod pusher pull this out by hand and you will have access to end of pushrod ...TORQUE the pressure plate bolts up ,4 to 6 nm.
Thank you so much! You don't know how much I want to be back on two wheels again. One last question for you: what is nm?
Quote from: ragecage23 on January 05, 2012, 01:23:50 AM
Quote from: twinrat on January 04, 2012, 11:52:21 PM
Take off the clutch pressure plate ,That is the round lump with 6 bolts in it ,undo bolts evenly and underneath you will find spacers and springs remove carefully and underneath that you will find the clutch release bearing .pull it off by hand and dont loose the thrust washer ,make sure you put the trust washer back facing the way you took it off as the surface should be niceley polished from use .UNDERNEATH is the pushrod pusher pull this out by hand and you will have access to end of pushrod ...TORQUE the pressure plate bolts up ,4 to 6 nm.
Thank you so much! You don't know how much I want to be back on two wheels again. One last question for you: what is nm?
Here ya go http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_metre
Michael
Thanks for that. I didn't even think about looking it up :/
I just wanted to thank everyone for your help. Everyone who posted made a huge contribution in the effort of getting my bike back to working properly. If it weren't for you guys my bike wouldn't be fixed right now.
I got the left over rod out easily, I stripped one bolt, but a trip to Home Depot took care of that. put everything back together with new gaskets, put some oil in it and readjusted the clutch and she's good as new.
Thanks again everyone.
Cool! Doesn't it feel great to have done it by yourself? How about some pics to show the part of the rod that came out? Was it a clean break?
Sure thing! When I get home I'll put them up. And it was almost a clean break. It sure does feel good doing it by myself. I'm no mechanic so I was very proud of myself.
The one of the left is the left over push rod that I got out and the one on the right is the bolt that I screwed up when I was tightening the clutch basket. (http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af336/ragecage23/275cb69a.jpg)
you only broke the top off the bolt??why do you think i gave you the torque settings ? O well we live and learn by our mistakes and it makes us better at it next time .Also at least you gave it a go and good on you.
I didn't hear or feel the click so I just kept going for all six. So when this one broke I replaced all six with a grade-8 bolt.
if you didnt hear it or feel it it was already 99% broke when you took it out .a little trick to removing these jap bolts is to give them a little tap with a hammer before you remove them it takes a bit of the tension out of them and breaks the corrision that they seem to get on them especialy where they go into aluminium and have been there a long time,often saves a helicoil job .Another tip is when you have a bolt torqued up give it a tap with a hammer and torque once more only,you will not have to retorque that bolt especialy head bolts .I think you have the bottem of the bolt upside down in the photo as the bottem piece looks stretched and broken .
Thanks for the tips and yes I have the bolt upside down.