So I put a new battery in the bike about a month and a half ago because that last one died. Now this new battery doesn't have the amps to turn the engine over.
I think the stator/magneto whatever you want to call it might be bad. Or is it a regulator/rectifier? The battery did not explode so I don't think its the Regulator/rectifier.
The battery is the correct battery for the bike. The fuel vent tube is on the right side and everything. I got the battery from cycle gear since they were the only place that had the specific battery.
I unplugged the head light to relieve as much stain on the battery as possible but the engine still would not turn over. It would turn over once or twice then the starter just clicks. I tried to push start the bike but the back tire just slides. :cry:
The bike is a 2006 GS500F that has 10,321 miles on it. Its never sat for any length of time. Is it rare for the stator to go out on this engine?
I was going to test the outputs on the stator/generator with my voltage tester but then I realized I'm an idiot. lol, How am I going to check the voltage if I cant start it. :cookoo:
UPDATE:Just got done checking the stator resistance and the regulator voltage. I have a Amprobe 5XP-A multimeter I use it to test voltages and resistance on personal computer power supplies.
The stator was 0.001 ohms on all three leads. Setting was 2k. Now the fun part
I had to push start the bike to get it started which was a pain in the ass. But anyway with the bike idling the regulator was putting out 12.5 to 12.7 volts. I then tested the volts at the battery terminals and it was only 12.4 -12.6 getting to the battery. when revving the engine to 4-5K it was putting out 13.6 volts but only when I was revving it.
I looked on bike bandit and a regulator costs about 133$ Is this the average cost for just the regulator? http://www.bikebandit.com/2006-suzuki-gs500f/o/m9752#sch508926 Part#1067572
UPDATE2:
Retested the stator at 200 setting and the resistance is 00.9 to 01.0
Retested Regulator/rectifier again, output was even lower at 11.8 volts while the engine is idling.
Filled cells on battery and connected battery to trickle charger. battery seems fine.
On a 2006, the headlight I think cuts out when you press the starter.
Quite likely the regulator is bad. They go bad in 2 ways. One, not regulating and you get too much voltage. The other way is they don't work at all so you never charge a battery. (Not to self: I must finish that voltage regulator video!)
Get your volt meter and read the voltage with the bike running. It should be around 14 volts. If lower, the regulator died.
If your previous battery was shorting out, it could have damaged the regulator.
Also check to be sure you have proper acid level in your new battery.
To check the stator: It has 3 leads. The resistance between any 2 wires we are told should be zero. In reality, it is about 0.5 ohms. Too low for a cheap meter to measure. A better meter (at least a $25 one) should be able to measure resistance that low. You measure it with the bike off. Unplug from the regulator and check there. Though, if your meter says zero for all 3 combinations of the wires, it is OK. rare for them to go out.
Regulator go out: yes, it can. A momentary short when installing the battery could have done it, too.
Quote from: adidasguy on December 12, 2011, 10:14:10 PM
On a 2006, the headlight I think cuts out when you press the starter.
Quite likely the regulator is bad. They go bad in 2 ways. One, not regulating and you get too much voltage. The other way is they don't work at all so you never charge a battery. (Not to self: I must finish that voltage regulator video!)
Get your volt meter and read the voltage with the bike running. It should be around 14 volts. If lower, the regulator died.
If your previous battery was shorting out, it could have damaged the regulator.
Also check to be sure you have proper acid level in your new battery.
To check the stator: It has 3 leads. The resistance between any 2 wires we are told should be zero. In reality, it is about 0.5 ohms. Too low for a cheap meter to measure. A better meter (at least a $25 one) should be able to measure resistance that low. You measure it with the bike off. Unplug from the regulator and check there. Though, if your meter says zero for all 3 combinations of the wires, it is OK. rare for them to go out.
Regulator go out: yes, it can. A momentary short when installing the battery could have done it, too.
Thanks for the reply, I'm going to check resistance's from the stator then if I can get the bike started check what the regulator is outputting.
Well its cold and its raining(bike is covered) so I'm going to wait till the morning, but I did check the voltage on the battery and it was 11.80 volts, I tried to start the bike and it dropped to 11.25.
If I'm not mistaken the regulator back a bit and to the right of the battery on the out side of the frame under the plastic, correct?
Check the voltage at the battery with the bike running. Regulator needs the load of the bike and battery to function properly and test it. You don't know if a regulator is working properly if there is no load on it.
You got it right where it is. That finned black thing. You can unplug the stator there to check the stator resistance. But I bet its the regulator. While you're there, unplug both connectors and reconnect to insure you have a good connection.
Also check for any corrosion on the battery connections.
Here is the how to for checking the charging system:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=38480.0
That write up shows an old old GS500. Originally the stator went to 3 barrel connectors and in the wiring harness was a length of wire that went from 3 barrel connectors to the 3 pin molex type.
Newer stators and bikes don't do that. The stator has the 3 pin molex type connector and goes straight to the regulator.
If swapping stators, you can use the new one and bypass that adapter section in the harness and go directly to the regulator. You can't put the old ones with 3 barrel connectors in a bike unless it has that adapter cable in the harness.
Just got done checking the stator resistance and the regulator voltage. I have a Amprobe 5XP-A multimeter I use it to test voltages and resistance on personal computer power supplies.
The stator was 0.001 ohms on all three leads. Setting was 20k. Now the fun part
I had to push start the bike to get it started which was a pain in the ass. But anyway with the bike idling the regulator was putting out 12.5 to 12.7 volts. I then tested the volts at the battery terminals and it was only 12.4 -12.6 getting to the battery. when revving the engine to 4-5K it was putting out 13.6 volts but only when I was revving it.
I looked on bike bandit and a regulator costs about 133$ Is this the average cost for just the regulator? http://www.bikebandit.com/2006-suzuki-gs500f/o/m9752#sch508926 Part#1067572
You can buy used ones or after market ones for much less. Used ones $25 - $50 or so. After market ones like $75.
If wanting a new one, pay $100 or so and get a state of the art MosFet regulator. I got mine from http://roadstercycle.com/
One bike needed a replacement so I put in a used one for a month until I got the MosFet's. I've done 2 bikes with them. Need one more for Suzi, just because..... she will get moody of the other bikes have something cool and she doesn't.
I suggest getting new as you do not know if a used one is close to dying. Given $75 for new OEM replacements, if you have the extra go MosFet. MUCH better and more reliable.
Your voltage will drop for a while after starting the bike. I've watched it on a meter. It can take 1 to 5 minutes for voltage to get over 14v, depending on how drained the battery is and how much cranking was required to start the bike. That's why I suggest going for a ride then measuring again.
You should see over 14v at the battery. It will be less if the battery is drained but you should see it slowly go up as the bike is running.
If you have someone with the same regulator, you could take a few minutes and swap them. See if it is better. If so, replace it. If not, then you have 2 possibilities:
1. Bad battery. If you have a trickle charger, try that. If not, run the bike for a good ride, like 20 minutes. Measure the voltage. Wait a few hours and measure again. Should be about the same. If going down, probably bad battery.
2 Short somewhere. A short can drain the battery and overload the regulator. With the bike off, disconnect the +12 from the battery. Measure resistance between the wire and the frame or the minus of the battery. Should be infinite resistance. If there is a reading, a +12 wire somewhere is shorting to the frame causing a power drain.
Be sure all lights are working correctly. A shorted bulb can cause a drain when bike is on. This includes the tail parking light that always lights up dimly when bike on. Check both bulbs back there. You have a small park light in the headlamp, too.
I don't think you mentioned what battery you put in.
When measuring the stator resistance, set meter to lowest scale you have. 20k is 20,000 ohms scale. Hard to read 0.5 ohms at that scale. You probably have a 200 ohm scale or even less. Anyway, sounds like stator is OK given the error tolerance at a 20,000 ohm scale.
Quote from: adidasguy on December 13, 2011, 04:02:12 PM
You can buy used ones or after market ones for much less. Used ones $25 - $50 or so. After market ones like $75.
If wanting a new one, pay $100 or so and get a state of the art MosFet regulator. I got mine from http://roadstercycle.com/
One bike needed a replacement so I put in a used one for a month until I got the MosFet's. I've done 2 bikes with them. Need one more for Suzi, just because..... she will get moody of the other bikes have something cool and she doesn't.
I suggest getting new as you do not know if a used one is close to dying. Given $75 for new OEM replacements, if you have the extra go MosFet. MUCH better and more reliable.
Your voltage will drop for a while after starting the bike. I've watched it on a meter. It can take 1 to 5 minutes for voltage to get over 14v, depending on how drained the battery is and how much cranking was required to start the bike. That's why I suggest going for a ride then measuring again.
You should see over 14v at the battery. It will be less if the battery is drained but you should see it slowly go up as the bike is running.
If you have someone with the same regulator, you could take a few minutes and swap them. See if it is better. If so, replace it. If not, then you have 2 possibilities:
1. Bad battery. If you have a trickle charger, try that. If not, run the bike for a good ride, like 20 minutes. Measure the voltage. Wait a few hours and measure again. Should be about the same. If going down, probably bad battery.
2 Short somewhere. A short can drain the battery and overload the regulator. With the bike off, disconnect the +12 from the battery. Measure resistance between the wire and the frame or the minus of the battery. Should be infinite resistance. If there is a reading, a +12 wire somewhere is shorting to the frame causing a power drain.
Be sure all lights are working correctly. A shorted bulb can cause a drain when bike is on. This includes the tail parking light that always lights up dimly when bike on. Check both bulbs back there. You have a small park light in the headlamp, too.
I don't think you mentioned what battery you put in.
When measuring the stator resistance, set meter to lowest scale you have. 20k is 20,000 ohms scale. Hard to read 0.5 ohms at that scale. You probably have a 200 ohm scale or even less. Anyway, sounds like stator is OK given the error tolerance at a 20,000 ohm scale.
I tested just tested the stator again on the 200 setting and its reading 00.9 resistance. This is bad I take it?
Its OK. I compared a few stators and got between 0.5 and 0.9 ohms. part of that resistance is meter tolerance and any dirt on the contacts. The important thing is all 3 wire combinations should be close. 10-20% variation is OK.
You're OK. Good job. :thumb:
Quote from: adidasguy on December 13, 2011, 05:42:00 PM
Its OK. I compared a few stators and got between 0.5 and 0.9 ohms. part of that resistance is meter tolerance and any dirt on the contacts. The important thing is all 3 wire combinations should be close. 10-20% variation is OK.
You're OK. Good job. :thumb:
Ok then, I'm leaning toward the Regulator/rectifier as the reason the battery is not getting a good charging. When the bike is just idling what should the correct voltage be comming from the Regulator? 13-14 volts? Its putting out an average of 12.5 at idle. I shut the bike off and watched the Volts drop by 00.1 every two seconds until it was around 11.90 when it seemed to stop.
I'm getting a battery charger for it to help.
If battery voltage drops like that, then levels out, it sounds like one cell in the battery is bad and shorting out. One cell is not holding a charge.
If something else was shorting out, it would continue to drop.
Check acid level in all cells of the battery. Maybe one is low.
I checked the fluid in the battery, two of the cells were down about an inch. Can I just add distilled water to bring them back up?
That's what the instructions say :icon_lol:
I checked the voltage that the regulator is outputting when the bike is Idling and it was only 11.8 volts.
Can anyone else check what the output should be when the bike is idling?
Where did you check the voltage? At the battery? Or did you disconnect the regulator and check its output?
You should be over 14v once the bike had been running a couple minutes for it to recharge the battery from the quick load of starting the bike.
Voltage should be over 12v with bike off.
Start bike and there will be a drop, maybe down to 11v after it is started due to the current used to start the bike.
In the next minute or two (at most) it will steadily raise until over 14v.
You said 2 cells of the battery were low on acid. Bet your battery is bad in those 2 cells now. You said voltage drops when bike turned off. I don't think we need any more proof you have a bad battery. Why did you let 2 cells get so low? Were they not properly filled when you installed the battery? Did you keep an eye on the levels the first week or two you had the battery? (Bubbles in the cells!)
I refilled those cells with distilled water and put the battery on a trickle charger and its now holding a charge even though the night dropped to the high 30's(F). I took the battery off the trickle charger and it not losing any volts despite the cold. I think the battery is doing good.
I checked the output voltage on the red and black wires that are coming directly out of the regulator. Just so you know what I checked: There are five wires coming out of the regulator, 3 of them come from the stator and two(red/black) hook into the wiring harness. I checked the two(Red/Black) that hook into the wiring harness(I think its the wiring harness anyway.)
After warming the bike up with the choke for 30-45 seconds and then letting it idle for about five minutes I checked the voltage from the red/black wires from the regulator and it only peaked at 11.9 volts and averaged 11.8 volts, 11.6v was the lowest. This is worse than when I checked the same connection two days ago and got 12.5 volts.
I was hoping it was just the battery.
You have a dead regulator / rectifier based on everything you've found out so far.
I don't think the R/R is confirmed bad. A R/R check procedure I read somewhere (I think it was on GS Resources) indicates that at idle the regulator may not supply any current at all. This was the case on the 2nd regulator I had on my bike. Idle voltage was = to battery voltage of around 12V. The 3rd regulator on my bike (came off of a GSXR750 via Ebay) does output a little at idle. The R/R check procedure I recall does not suggest any go/no-go voltage at idle.
So can anyone else check what output they are getting at idle?
My GS battery voltage at idle has always checked out to be same as battery is before it's installed. It's always been over 13.5 volts @ 2500 rpm and under 15.5 volts @ 5000 rpm as specified in the John Bates write up. I have over 170k GS500 miles in without any regulator or alternator problems, 80k miles on my 97 GS and 91k and counting on my current 02 GS. Lots of new batteries over the years.
http://www.bbburma.net/Documents/JohnBates_ChargingCircuitTests3.pdf
At idle I'm getting 11.8 volts, at 3000 RPM I'm getting 12.4, and at 5000 I'm getting 13.4.
Whats your guys opinions? shout I get a new regulator?
I checked my Yamaha FZ6R just for some kind of reference and the battery at idle is getting 13.5 volts.