Bought a 2001 GS 500 for cheap because it had sat for a year and would not start. It has less than 15,000 miles on it. Brought it home, drained the fuel, flushed the tank, cleaned the carbs really good, and got it fired up. It ran really lean, did not want to stay running, and was hard to start after continuous stalling. Also exhibited a hanging idle. Pulled the carbs off again and dipped them overnight, pulled the valve cover to check the valves. All of the valves were too tight. Ordered a valve shim kit and the tool. Once I got it, I adjusted them all within spec. Checked the float heights and made sure they were within spec (13mm +/- 1mm). Reassembled the bike and started it up. It ran briefly, then stalled. Would not start, and it was pushing fuel out of the intake side of the carbs and into the airbox. After cranking for a few minutes, I ammased about 4 ounces of fuel from the airbox drain tube.
Today: Pulled the carbs and adjusted the floats really low (thinking they were allowing too much fuel in, as evidenced by the fuel dump into the airbox) I adjusted them to 15.8mm left carb, 15.6mm right carb. Tried starting again and it started briefly, them stalled. Still have fuel dump, but not nearly as much. Pulled the plugs,,,,both were sopping wet with fuel.......plenty of spark though. Pulled the valve cover again. Checked the valves with the following results: Right intake - .08mm, right exhaust - .05mm, left intake - .08mm, left exhaust - .012mm......I reshimmed the right exhaust to get to .12mm. Buttoned it all back up and fired it up. It ran a bit longer, but eventually stalled and started dumping fuel back into the airbox (seemed to be more from the right carb than the left?) Fuel is only blowing back when cranking the starter, not when sitting (leads me to believe the float height is OK). I am hoping that I just had a bad read on the valves the 1st time, and the head is not eating the valvetrain starting with the right exhaust valve........
I have about had it with this bike! I can tear my 2 stroke down with my eyes closed, but this thing is killing me! Any help/suggestions?
As far as I know, the PO has never had the valve cover off, and never did anything other than change the oil.
did u try different settings on the petcock?
that could be letting too much fuel in.
it did for mine, but not as much as your describing.
I have tried Prime, and also "run".....I will try reserve in a bit. Thanks for the suggestion. But even if the petcock is letting too much fuel into the carbs, the carbs should meter out the proper amount for the combustion chamber right?
check the float height correctly?
http://gstwin.com/float_height_check.htm
could also be a stuck float
Quote from: Tombstones81 on December 17, 2011, 12:52:08 PM
check the float height correctly?
http://gstwin.com/float_height_check.htm
could also be a stuck float
I checked them per the manual while I had them apart. I don't think it's a stuck float because it does not overflow when I am not cranking the starter regardless of the petcock position. Another wierd thing, I tried it in the reserve position, but the petcock under the tank was off...the bike idle pretty decent, but if I blipped the throttle, it would stall........no fuel dump though.......I turned the petcock to the on position, and it was back to the way it had been.....stalled and dumped fuel when cranking.
Anybody know wher I can pick up a carb rebuild kit for this bike (2001)? I can only find the older (2000 and previuos years)......Also, will a carb from a newer GS (With TPS) work on this bike? Just leave the TPS unplugged?
Quote from: Tombstones81 on December 17, 2011, 12:52:08 PM
check the float height correctly?
http://gstwin.com/float_height_check.htm
could also be a stuck float
I tried this method, but I get differing readings on the right carb (problem side..) One time it will show the appropriate height, the next time it will show about an inch above the bowl height. The left side carb shows the appropriate height (at the base of the bowl). I guess the wierd readings from the right side carb means the float might be sticking? Sometimes stuck, sometimes not stuck?
Update.....
pulled the vacuum tube from the carb and turned the petcock to Prime. She fired up and idled, however, she did a bit of muffled "psstttt" every once in a while...each time this happened, the idle went down and most of the time she stalled. I would get her running again but only with the choke off and no throttle input. I did this for about five minutes, letting it idle until she stalled, then restarting her. I noticed a bit of condensation (water only) dripping from the forward end of the silencer, but there is plenty of backpressure coming from the exhaust end (the bike has been in my garage since I brought it home, so I don't know about this?)? Now...here's where it gets wierd...I pulled the plugs to be sure that I was still getting spark on both sides....the left plug was dry and pretty black, the right plug was wet with fuel. I noticed when I pulled the plugs that the left side of the jug was hot, and the right side of the jug was not nearly as hot as the left!!!!!! I assume this means that the right side carb might have a sticking float, causing too much fuel to be pushed into the combustion chamber, causing the "PSSDTTT" sound as it puts out the spark and causing the idle to go down and causing the stall. Therefore the right side has not had nearly as much combustion as the left side and it is not as hot as the left accordingly??????? Somebody tell me That I am wrong or right here......Please?
if only the right carb is showing that. (getting too much fuel at times)
then I would guess so.
never had a float problem and never physically dabbled in it before.
only had petcock problems and rejetted and partially rebuilt my carbs. (seals, float needle etc)
heres another thread with float problems.
might find something in there that would help.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=56565.0
(edit)
sounds spot on.
Too much fuel on the right.
only thing I personally know that could cause this, is sticking floats if they are adjusted properly.
another possibility is if they are out of sync and your right side is open alot more then the left.
just incase your not fluent with them fully, im talking about the 2 ports there that go into the boots into the motor.
if the flaps are not even, i do believe it will cause ones side to get more fuel.
and to adjust that is the Balance screw labeled in the pic, if you didnt know already.
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb17/ben_2_go/Motorcycle%20Stuff/Mikuni%20BST33SS%20Carbs/engineside-1.jpg)
Flat/cracked o-rings around the float needle seats will cause fluctuating fuel levels, as will intermittently stuck floats (open). Look closely at the float needles, they should be conical shaped, no step or groove in the rubber tip.
Heres a useful sticky thread with everything on the carbs labeled that many usually miss.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=56601.0
once again, just incase your not fluent with everything in the carbs.
Have you checked for a strong spark on each side? Battery in good shape?
Quote from: Paulcet on December 17, 2011, 02:47:44 PM
Flat/cracked o-rings around the float needle seats will cause fluctuating fuel levels, as will intermittently stuck floats (open). Look closely at the float needles, they should be conical shaped, no step or groove in the rubber tip.
Big rich....Very strong spark on both sides......I just think the right side is dumping too much fuel into the Com Chamber, causing the spark to go out. Kinda making sense to me now....
Pualcet.....When I cleaned them, I looked at them closely, they looked good, as did the float bowl seats. Even put the float needle in the seats and tried to blow air out of them to no avail.......
Tombstone, all the suggestions are useful....I know my way around carbs, but each reminder ensures that I double check each portion...I appreciate every suggestion that has been made, regardless of how general it may sound....
i appreciate everyone that has thrown anything out there...alot of times, I just need to put all the info out there to realize what the hell is going on and you guys giving suggestions helps out alot......... Now I need to find a rebuild kit for the 01 carb...anybody know where to find such an animal?
If the float isn't sticking, I've seen them sink before too. Don't think it's a common problem on the GS though. I may have missed it, but is the choke sticking somehow on the right side? That could provide too much gas as well.
I know you are checking the valves, but have you done a compression test on each side?
Quote from: Big Rich on December 17, 2011, 07:38:26 PM
If the float isn't sticking, I've seen them sink before too. Don't think it's a common problem on the GS though. I may have missed it, but is the choke sticking somehow on the right side? That could provide too much gas as well.
I know you are checking the valves, but have you done a compression test on each side?
The choke cable/linkage seems to be moving fine looking at it from the outside......How do I check that it's working properly on the inside? I have not done a compression test yet......really hoping that the rings aren't bad on the right side (crossing fingers). I am leaning towards a float issue in the right side carb...either old (I have pulled the needle valve seat and inspected the O-ring which did look a bit old) o-rings in the needle valve seat, or the needle valve itself. Gotta find a rebuild kit pronto....
Here's what I did for o-rings: take the old ones to a hardware or auto parts store who carries o-rings. Try to match sizes. Because the old ones are probably flat, get the next size up or down (i got both sizes, just threw away about $0.75, which is chapter than going back to the store).
Quote from: Paulcet on December 18, 2011, 08:23:59 AM
Here's what I did for o-rings: take the old ones to a hardware or auto parts store who carries o-rings. Try to match sizes. Because the old ones are probably flat, get the next size up or down (i got both sizes, just threw away about $0.75, which is chapter than going back to the store).
Good idea. I guess since no one makes a carb rebuild kit for this bike, I will have to order OEM for the Needle valve assembly?
edit: from the pics i have seen, it appears that everything in the float bowl from a newer (2002-2009) model looks to be exact. Are the carbs the same, just the new ones have TPS? If so, I should be able to find a rebuild kit for one of those new ones and use it for mine.....
Also, when I pulled the carbs apart yesterday, i put the floats in a bowl of gasoline to see if the were leaking/cracked (If they were, they would fill with gas and sink). Both of them continued to float after 10 minutes or so, ruling that out as an issue.
Quote from: craigs449 on December 18, 2011, 08:54:18 AM
Good idea. I guess since no one makes a carb rebuild kit for this bike, I will have to order OEM for the Needle valve assembly?
http://www.bitzforbikes.co.uk/Carburettor_Repair_Kit.-ref-12525-9534-2537-.html
your welcome :thumb: (I think) haha
£23.95
Suitable for:
Suzuki GS 500 2001 Onward (K models) (K1 2001)
the (I think) was because I have no idea what the K models are
(edit)
heres the entire listing for the 01 K model I was lookin at for ya
http://www.bitzforbikes.co.uk/Suzuki/GS_500_2001_Onward_%28K_models%29/K1_2001/all
http://www.bitzforbikes.co.uk/Carburettor_Diaphragm.-ref-12549-9534-2537-.html
^^ Diaphragm
Needles when I needed them, I simply ordered those from an OEM site and the rebuild kit from another.
Quote from: Tombstones81 on December 18, 2011, 09:28:24 AM
Quote from: craigs449 on December 18, 2011, 08:54:18 AM
Good idea. I guess since no one makes a carb rebuild kit for this bike, I will have to order OEM for the Needle valve assembly?
http://www.bitzforbikes.co.uk/Carburettor_Repair_Kit.-ref-12525-9534-2537-.html
your welcome :thumb: (I think) haha
£23.95
Suitable for:
Suzuki GS 500 2001 Onward (K models) (K1 2001)
the (I think) was because I have no idea what the K models are
(edit)
heres the entire listing for the 01 K model I was lookin at for ya
http://www.bitzforbikes.co.uk/Suzuki/GS_500_2001_Onward_%28K_models%29/K1_2001/all
http://www.bitzforbikes.co.uk/Carburettor_Diaphragm.-ref-12549-9534-2537-.html
^^ Diaphragm
Needles when I needed them, I simply ordered those from an OEM site and the rebuild kit from another.
Thanks, I don't know about shipping to the US from the UK.
Although that does answer a previous question about carb part compatibility. This kit is listed as a rebuild kit for the 2001 (K1) and newer bikes. So I can find, say, a rebuild kit for a 2005 GS 500F and it would work for my application....thanks for the info.
Found this info on the web while trying to find a compatible carb rebuild kit for my 01'..
Here are the different float valve part numbers from a certain parts website:
1989-2000:
13370-02D00 (replaces 13370-44B00)
2001-2002:
13370-33E80
2004-2006 (K4,K5,K6)
13370-04F00
Don't give up! I hope you keep at it! These are the best threads on the forum if you ask me. Can't wait to see the outcome. Good luck to you! I'd comment but I don't know jack about GS carbs except mine are in a plastic bag next to a dismantled engine.
Went to the Ace hardware store near me and found the closest o-ring size. Before work I put them on the needle seats and pushed them little suckers in there....Boy they are tight with the new o-rings. After a bit of wiggling and pushing, I was able to get them far enough in the carb that the plastic tab on the bowl does not hang up on it. ran out of time and had to go to work, so I will have to get back around to it hopefully Wednesday.
thanks for all the help so far :cheers:
Kinda at a standpoint now........put the new o-rings in the needle jet seats and still having the same problem. Bike will start and run initially, then stall out. When I crank it, I am getting lots of gas coming out the intake side of the carbs into the airbox. If I unplug the vacuum line from the carb and put the petcock on "prime", it will start after a bit and idle. If I blip the throttle, the bike will stall.....also when it is idling, there is a "PSST" sound that seems to come from the right side carb and it seems to come out of the airjet hole in the intake side of the carb. I do like project bikes, but this one seems to be a doozy! The basics seem to be there, fuel, air, and also strong spark on both sides...........what am I missing at this point? I would assume that a compression test for each cylinder would be the logical thing to do next? Anybody know offhand what the proper compression range should be for a 2001 GS 500?
Compression should be 142-199 PSI according to the clymer manual.... That's with the bike warm. 114 PSI is the service limit and 28 PSI between cylinders.
Did you get new float needles/seats yet?
Quote from: Jared on December 20, 2011, 07:41:37 PM
Compression should be 142-199 PSI according to the clymer manual.... That's with the bike warm. 114 PSI is the service limit and 28 PSI between cylinders.
Did you get new float needles/seats yet?
Gotta order the needle valve/seats from OEM......Can't seem to find a rebuild kit for this model......There is no way I can get a compression reading with the bike warm, I can't seem to keep it running long enough to get warm ! That "PSST" sound is what really has me wondering..............
Even a cold compression test will be helpful. It would show any difference between the 2 cylinders and if it's really low on one side.
Craigs, any time there is a sound coming from the carb itself it is usually from a lean mixture. But you said that plug was wet with gas, correct? And just as a run-down:
Are the jets the stock sizes for the year you have?
Any intake/exhaust mods?
I'm guessing you have the carb intake exposed since you are messing with it?
Air/fuel mixture screw isn't drilled out or if it is, is the tip of it snapped off?
With all the info you've already given, I really don't think it's a carb issue (and you said you know your way around carbs, and I believe you). That's why I asked about the spark and the battery - a weak battery can cause havoc on tuning, and spark can be a hard thing to diagnose sometimes. So assuming the carbs are in top shape and the valves are within spec, I would try to switch the left and right coil AND spark plugs to see if the problem switches to the other side.
Quote from: Big Rich on December 21, 2011, 05:57:31 AM
Even a cold compression test will be helpful. It would show any difference between the 2 cylinders and if it's really low on one side.
Craigs, any time there is a sound coming from the carb itself it is usually from a lean mixture. But you said that plug was wet with gas, correct? And just as a run-down:
Are the jets the stock sizes for the year you have?
Any intake/exhaust mods?
I'm guessing you have the carb intake exposed since you are messing with it?
Air/fuel mixture screw isn't drilled out or if it is, is the tip of it snapped off?
With all the info you've already given, I really don't think it's a carb issue (and you said you know your way around carbs, and I believe you). That's why I asked about the spark and the battery - a weak battery can cause havoc on tuning, and spark can be a hard thing to diagnose sometimes. So assuming the carbs are in top shape and the valves are within spec, I would try to switch the left and right coil AND spark plugs to see if the problem switches to the other side.
Yup, the right side is the side that the sound comes from....almost like someone is blowing air back out of the air jet hole on the intake side of the carb. the right side plug is also the one that is wet with fuel. I have tried swapping the plugs to either side with the same results. Eyeballing it, the spark looks equally as strong on both sides.
2001 GS 500
Bone stock, stock airbox/filter, stock exhaust, As far as I can tell, the jets are stock....(the ones that I can read are stock sizes, I can't read the others). PO started to fool with the carbs when he couldn't get it started, so he drilled out the caps for the fuel screws. Botht eh screws look good (is it possible that the o-rings for the fuel screws might be the issue?) I have the tank propped up in its place and the air filter out of the airbox while I am trying all these things, so I can see the intake side of the carbs.
I am using a jump box while cranking the bike so the power is there. The battery is not great, but its easier to hook up the jumper box for steady cranking....
I am getting conflicting info on different websites........anyone know whether the needle valve/seats from a 2004-2006 carb will work with a 2001-2002 carb? The OEM parts fiche shows a different part # for them, but I see that some places have them listed as being used on both.
Quote from: Jared on December 20, 2011, 07:41:37 PM
Compression should be 142-199 PSI according to the clymer manual.... That's with the bike warm. 114 PSI is the service limit and 28 PSI between cylinders.
Did you get new float needles/seats yet?
Finally found needle valves / seats for this carb......Oldbikebarn said they cannot source these parts..
http://www.smebike.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=2_65_70&product_id=1070
Just fyi- oldbikebarn is a freaking rip off. It's one guy running a website out of his basement. You order something, then he orders it and gets it shipped to him, then ships it to you. Google "oldbikebarn reviews" and you'll see what I mean.
Quote from: Big Rich on December 22, 2011, 09:30:41 PM
Just fyi- oldbikebarn is a freaking rip off. It's one guy running a website out of his basement. You order something, then he orders it and gets it shipped to him, then ships it to you. Google "oldbikebarn reviews" and you'll see what I mean.
good to know.....i had one helluva time finding the seats/valve for this bike! probably because they only used this carb on the 01 and 02 bikes.....i paid under $30 for both sets from the link i posted......oem was $45 per carb! we will see when the parts get to my door...
-craig
I always use Partsnmore but they don't have your carb parts either. Most places are resellers/middlemen- some stock some don't...Some Suck and some don't.
What's your schedule next week Craig?
Quote from: Jared on December 23, 2011, 08:40:21 AM
I always use Partsnmore but they don't have your carb parts either. Most places are resellers/middlemen- some stock some don't...Some Suck and some don't.
What's your schedule next week Craig?
Going to visit my brother after Christmas for a few days, gonna take my 02 Honda CR 250 - smoker and do a little woods riding with my brother on his badass Can-Am Commander. Also just picked up a Contour Roam camera that I have been itching to use :)