So I'm attempting to reinstall my cams. only problem is, on my exhaust camshaft there is no 3 with an arrow? is the install the same for a 2005 model? or am I missing something, everything is written for earlier models and "Assumed" it applies for the later ones.
Never was a 3 with arrow on the exhaust cam sprocket, the 3 is on the intake cam. There are 1 with arrow and 2 with arrow marks on the exhaust cam sprocket. You align the 1 arrow with the top cylinder block finish with the chain tight from the crank sprocket to the exhaust sprocket. Then starting with the 2 arrow you count 18 pins to the 3 arrow on the intake sprocket. Crank on R-T mark for all of this.
Quote from: gsJack on January 30, 2012, 01:44:31 PM
Never was a 3 with arrow on the exhaust cam sprocket, the 3 is on the intake cam. There are 1 with arrow and 2 with arrow marks on the exhaust cam sprocket. You align the 1 arrow with the top cylinder block finish with the chain tight from the crank sprocket to the exhaust sprocket. Then starting with the 2 arrow you count 18 pins to the 3 arrow on the intake sprocket. Crank on R-T mark for all of this.
I thought the 1 with the arrow was suppose to point to the front of the engine? the problem with that is, if it does, the cam itself on the left side wants to be strait down??! ontop of the valve, Da hell?
Does this help?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/gs500signalgenerators.jpg)
I did that, lol. I made a video. Don't worry it isn't like my past ones.. I cut most of the random talking out... :) give me like 10 mins for it to be on youtube and ready to watch. showing what I have done/what im talking about. basically its my whole question in video form with visual aid. :D
10 mins.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjfM-WYOpog
You've got it lined up correctly. When the timing marks are lined up, the left exhaust valve is open (that's why you have to rotate the cams 180 degrees to check the gap). Install the cam caps and tighten them bit by bit so it keeps pressure even on both sides of the cap and the cam will push the valve open. Be careful you don't let the chain slip (jump timing).
-Jessie
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on January 30, 2012, 04:12:48 PM
You've got it lined up correctly. When the timing marks are lined up, the left exhaust valve is open (that's why you have to rotate the cams 180 degrees to check the gap). Install the cam caps and tighten them bit by bit so it keeps pressure even on both sides of the cap and the cam will push the valve open. Be careful you don't let the chain slip (jump timing).
-Jessie
I figured this out after I posted the video.. Have my bike together, Now it wont start :( Anyone wanna buy a half working GS500? :D
Can't stand this no more. I haven't been able to ride in like forever, and ride without problems in months! this is bull! I PUT EVERYTHING BACK TOGETHER RIGHT EVEN RECHECKED EVERYTHING.. FUUUUUUU GS500f!!!!!
i'd call it an operator error :icon_mrgreen:
Don't get frustrated now, you've done so much already! Did you measure the valve clearances and do a compression check? You can also try a quick squirt of starting fluid and see what it does.
-Jessie
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on January 30, 2012, 06:00:00 PM
Don't get frustrated now, you've done so much already! Did you measure the valve clearances and do a compression check? You can also try a quick squirt of starting fluid and see what it does.
-Jessie
I measured valve clearances, yes. the left fit the .03 but I only had a .08 to check.. so that's min. everything seems fine. And I can't do a compression test, Don't have a gauge, I asked to barrow one on craigslist still haven't heard back from no one. and I don't have starting fluid. Still have to buy shims, but I cannot order online right now, cause due to spiteful parents, they canceled me off their debit account < I had my own bank/debit card. and gave me what I had in there, and said If I wanted one I could go apply for one by myself < I don't see how that is fair.. but what ever. So basically its like this. I have some money... but I have nothing to get anywhere. other then a bike. Thus I can ride a bike 25 miles non stop, I don't think the boys down there could handle that kinda riding any more... so basically I'm doing everything locally.
Quote from: J_Walker on January 30, 2012, 06:40:05 PM
the left fit the .03 but I only had a .08 to check.. so that's min.
Not quite following what you mean there. The best thing you could do for me is list the measurement you got on each valve and what size shim is currently in each valve. Thanks
-Jessie
my "Bad" valve was set at 2.75 I swapped it for a 2.70, the 2.70 gave me 0.03 clearance, I know I need 2.65 but I don't have no where to buy them, and I borrowed the 2.70 from a friend. Giving it back tomorrow. i'll see what I can do. there needs to be a town fair in my area again.. People drop $50 bills all the time :D I make like 300 a year :D well if I see someone drop the 50. I give it back, but if no one is around and its lying there. I pick it up. lol finders keepers :)
How sure are you that you have the timing lined up exactly right? If it skipped a link when the cam chain tensioner pulled taught while you were tightening the cam that was pushing the bucket down, your timing is off, and you could bend your valves that way (what happened to me).
Not sure how busy he is, selling stolen frames and all :icon_lol: but Steezin has a shim kit he mailed out to me when I needed to check my valves.
Quote from: Dizzledan on January 30, 2012, 07:29:49 PM
How sure are you that you have the timing lined up exactly right? If it skipped a link when the cam chain tensioner pulled taught while you were tightening the cam that was pushing the bucket down, your timing is off, and you could bend your valves that way (what happened to me).
Not sure how busy he is, selling stolen frames and all :icon_lol: but Steezin has a shim kit he mailed out to me when I needed to check my valves.
I took the cam chain tensioner out when I took off the cams, put it in last. as far as I know I counted, And re-counted 18 dots, and marked them with sharpie and lined the arrows up, also when putting in my first exhaust cam in. I made sure to pull the chain tight and hold it there. than I reinstalled the tensioner, and rotated the timing bolt the 19mm one. and everything felt smooth. lined it back up at the first line after RT | | and put the head gasket back on and what not, and tried to turn it over. only thing I didn't put fully back on was the airbox, but I put the engine breather line connected to the air box, but just didn't connect it to the carbs. Who freakin knows.. my bike is retarded.
With the plugs out, does it blow your thumb off the hole when you crank it over? While those plugs are out, how do they look? Test the spark on them too.
For the shim kit see here:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=13610.980
What were the measurements on your other 3 valves?
-Jessie
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on January 30, 2012, 08:22:21 PM
What were the measurements on your other 3 valves?
-Jessie
don't know, only had .03/.08 feeler gauges. I borrowed. wouldn't fit .08 thats for sure.. all fit .03 tho. Will try super hard tomorrow to find a decent pair of feelers.
i saw your video and it does not look lined up right .you had it lined up with the end edge of the roter and not the first line after RT unless you took video at an angle.if you are not sure you are dead on line check it with a straight edge it must be inline with the magnet,other wise your cam timing will be out.turn clockwise and come up to your line ,if you miss it carry on round till it lines up exactly ..NEEVER EVER GO BACKWARDS AS YOU NEED TO TAKE UP THE SLACK IN THIS DIRECTION.got it
Quote from: J_Walker on January 30, 2012, 11:19:32 PM
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on January 30, 2012, 08:22:21 PM
What were the measurements on your other 3 valves?
-Jessie
don't know, only had .03/.08 feeler gauges. I borrowed. wouldn't fit .08 thats for sure.. all fit .03 tho. Will try super hard tomorrow to find a decent pair of feelers.
If you have .03 mm or more clearance on all of the 4 valves that makes them all to spec and while more clearance might be nice that is enough for it to run good so it's time to move on for now. Would be real nice to measure compression about now to completely eliminate the valves as your no start problem. I would be satisified with a thumb over the hole compression test having done it for some 60+ years now I know what a good compression pop sounds like but maybe you could find a guage to check it. It's possible for you to have a slightly bent valve from trying to turn it over whlle it was out of time and you could be measuring some clearance without actually having valve seal. When I had a sticking bucket on my GS it was holding the valve open about .008" (.20+ mm approx) when cold and there was no compression pop on that cylinder.
Quote from: twinrat on January 31, 2012, 12:16:15 AM
i saw your video and it does not look lined up right .you had it lined up with the end edge of the roter and not the first line after RT unless you took video at an angle.if you are not sure you are dead on line check it with a straight edge it must be inline with the magnet,other wise your cam timing will be out.turn clockwise and come up to your line ,if you miss it carry on round till it lines up exactly ..NEEVER EVER GO BACKWARDS AS YOU NEED TO TAKE UP THE SLACK IN THIS DIRECTION.got it
I noticed that too when I saw the vid yesterday and while the amount off is not much it could be a tooth off. If you have the chain tensioner installed now it would only take a minute to turn the engine over with a wrench until you get to exactly on the mark closest to the R-T on the rotor, the other mark is for spark advance. See my posts above showing the marks and how they align for checking timing. Only take a couple minutes to check this, like twinrat said it's best to turn the crank only clockwise unless the tensioner is on the front side of the engine as it was on my old Nighthawk.
Quote from: J_Walker on January 30, 2012, 06:40:05 PM
I measured valve clearances, yes. the left fit the .03 but I only had a .08 to check.. so that's min. everything seems fine. And I can't do a compression test, Don't have a gauge, I asked to barrow one on craigslist still haven't heard back from no one. and I don't have starting fluid. Still have to buy shims, but I cannot order online right now, cause due to spiteful parents, they canceled me off their debit account < I had my own bank/debit card. and gave me what I had in there, and said If I wanted one I could go apply for one by myself < I don't see how that is fair.. but what ever. So basically its like this. I have some money... but I have nothing to get anywhere. other then a bike. Thus I can ride a bike 25 miles non stop, I don't think the boys down there could handle that kinda riding any more... so basically I'm doing everything locally.
I should have a 2.65 shim in my stash, PM me your mailing address and I'll send it to you.
-Jessie
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on January 31, 2012, 11:15:18 AM
Quote from: J_Walker on January 30, 2012, 06:40:05 PM
I measured valve clearances, yes. the left fit the .03 but I only had a .08 to check.. so that's min. everything seems fine. And I can't do a compression test, Don't have a gauge, I asked to barrow one on craigslist still haven't heard back from no one. and I don't have starting fluid. Still have to buy shims, but I cannot order online right now, cause due to spiteful parents, they canceled me off their debit account < I had my own bank/debit card. and gave me what I had in there, and said If I wanted one I could go apply for one by myself < I don't see how that is fair.. but what ever. So basically its like this. I have some money... but I have nothing to get anywhere. other then a bike. Thus I can ride a bike 25 miles non stop, I don't think the boys down there could handle that kinda riding any more... so basically I'm doing everything locally.
I should have a 2.65 shim in my stash, PM me your mailing address and I'll send it to you.
-Jessie
I need 1 2.60 and 2.55 I think. Gotta take out the cams again, cause I don't have a valve tool. and apparently I was doing something wrong with installing the cam's. Got FEELER GAUGES TOODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <3 All my rod's look fine. and they go down.. and up.. and no light coming threw the valves, so they aren't stuck open. <- the back one tho. but everything but the front right are all out of spec. God help me.. :0
List your measurement for all of your valves and the current shim that is in each one so I can see what you are working with.
-Jessie
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on January 31, 2012, 01:48:32 PM
List your measurement for all of your valves and the current shim that is in each one so I can see what you are working with.
-Jessie
Haha just was doing that, with my little grease filled paper, here's the results.
BaltimoreGS... You are NOT the father!
Hahaha ^^
Front left 275 *** Front right 270
Back left 258 *** Back right 260
Front left no shim would fit. *** Front right 0.03 would fit but think I could go to 0.035
Back left 0.04 shim would fit *** Back right 0.03 shim would fit.
PS: I cannot believe I haven't bent a valve rod yet.. My bike also has 12,851 miles on it and it's an 05
Try swapping the shims from the left front exhaust to the right rear intake. With the 2.60 shim from the right rear installed on the left front, rotate the engine a few times to squeeze any oil out and see what reading you get. Make sure you have the shim from the left front in the right rear bucket before you spin the engine, I know the shim is way too big but you want the cam to have a shim under it when it spins. If the clearance is still too tight you could try putting the 2.58 shim in it (having the tool makes shim swapping a lot easier than pulling the cams each time). As far as your other valves are concerned, it looks like the right front exhaust valve needs a 2.65 shim, and both intakes (rears) could use a 2.55 shim.
By the way, the shims are the things that look like a faceless quarter; the tool you are checking with is called a feeler gauge. So the correct terminology would be "Back left intake a 0.04mm feeler would fit." Not trying to pick on you, proper terminology just makes it easier for everyone to understand your posts :thumb: I'll look through my shim stash and see what I have. Let me know the measurement of the left front exhaust valve with the 2.60 shim in it.
-Jessie
do the thumb compression test. without squirting oil in either cylinder, then with appproximately 1/2 teaspoon of oil in each cylinder. this is a seat-of-the-pants-feel type of test. you'll know it if there is significant difference between the LEFT and RIGHT cylinders, before and after the oil.
O0
Alright, I knew I said that wrong actually.. I was tired, Just had a nice refreshing nap.. :D
I'm gonna assume that I should just try the 2.58 first cause it seems like the other one would still be to big, btw why is there a 2.58 in there anyway? Thought shims came in 2.55/2.60/2.65 kinda thing?
What are you talking about ohgood? can you explain further?
Replacement shims come in .05mm increments, factory shims come in all kinds of crazy sizes.
-Jessie
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on January 31, 2012, 05:39:07 PM
Replacement shims come in .05mm increments, factory shims come in all kinds of crazy sizes.
-Jessie
so are my shims factory? is there a way to tell, btw all the numbers were clear cut and still on the backs of the shims. so I don't know? its only been 12k miles on the bike. Compared to my car, 100,000k miles or so. thats bitchshet. :D
I would assume your shims are factory. Judging from what you said I doubt the previous owner ever checked the valves. If he did he would (should) have replaced the shims before that valve got hung open.
-Jessie
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on January 31, 2012, 05:47:47 PM
I would assume your shims are factory. Judging from what you said I doubt the previous owner ever checked the valves. If he did he would (should) have replaced the shims before that valve got hung open.
-Jessie
Okay, Also when searching for local place that sells shims, Found a small corner shop. they had dirtbikes and ATV's outside with like 3 sports bikes. so I tried, the guy was freaked out how big the shims we're? LOL he showed me what he had. they were so tiny and cute... :) figured this was due to they work on smaller things.. but Good lord their biggest shim was still tiny compared to the GS500's. He also talked to me like I didn't know what shims are and that I must of had something else.. srsly?
and PO was a complete moron, lets just say that... should of seen his uses of liquid gasket.... Lordy!!
Suzuki shims are 29.5mm in diameter. Be careful that someone doesn't try to sell you Kawasaki shims that are 29mm, that .5mm makes a difference! Dirt bike shims (and most modern day stuff with shim in bucket design) are much smaller.
-Jessie
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on January 31, 2012, 06:20:40 PM
Suzuki shims are 29.5mm in diameter. Be careful that someone doesn't try to sell you Kawasaki shims that are 29mm, that .5mm makes a difference! Dirt bike shims (and most modern day stuff with shim in bucket design) are much smaller.
-Jessie
Really? I'd think they'd get bigger, is there a reason why they got smaller? I know that my friends girlfriends dad, his Harley has self adjusting valves. sounds like a dream ^_^ instead of doing this...
So I'll swap the stuff tomorrow.
Modern stuff has 3 or 4 valves per cylinder. So instead of one big valve it has 2 smaller ones. Allows for better flow. When you see "X" in a Suzuki model designation (as in gsXr) it means 4 valves per cylinder.
-Jessie
I thought "X" was fuel injection. "R" is racing.
"GS" means "good stuff!"
Quote from: adidasguy on February 01, 2012, 12:18:10 AM
I thought "X" was fuel injection. "R" is racing.
"GS" means "good stuff!"
"GS" Means, Sexy girl, backwards. :D
Having you taking out the cams, now you don't need it, but for a next time you can use the two screwdriver method to pop out the shims. Just be carefull to not "chew" the metal behind the shim with the tip of the screwdriver, like I did the first time. The first time is a pain, but then you can pop a shim in under 30 secs...even though, I can't think of the pain it is adjusting 16 valves...thank god I have a "Good Stuff"!