Recently installed new clutch plates due to slippage. Slippage now gone, but I seem to be getting like a fading in heavy traffic. Prolonged use of the clutch means I suddenly get a lot more slack on the lever, and the clutch bite moves more towards the bars.
What could cause this?
On the rebuild of the clutch, the metal plates were slightly tinged blue in places. Could this be the problem? Also refitted with hd clutch springs. Cheers.
GS500E is the bike! Cheers!
Try adjusting your clutch. GSJack posted a how to here - http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=59173.msg676066#msg676066
holding your clutch in while waiting at lights or stationary traffic is just asking for clutch problems .always put bike in neutral while waiting in traffic and you wont get blued plates .THAT IS A SIGN OF A OVER HEATED CLUTCH .
Quote from: twinrat on February 23, 2012, 11:22:06 PM
holding your clutch in while waiting at lights or stationary traffic is just asking for clutch problems .always put bike in neutral while waiting in traffic and you wont get blued plates .THAT IS A SIGN OF A OVER HEATED CLUTCH .
not being rude but was that a serious reply???
sitting in neutral at a stop is the very LAST thing u want to do very often.
Unless u want a car reamed up your behind sometime with no ability to get out of the way because your stuck in neutral.
I personally only do it when im shifting my pants or junk, or giving my hands a break.
and even then im keeping an even closer eye out behind me then usual.
if you know the order in which the traffic lights occur just put in to gear a few seconds before they change.If you are in a part of the world where people dont respect your space you are bettor off not being on a bike.iIf in a row of traffic you will always have time to do this unless youve pissed someone off by sneaking up the middle to the front .
Quote from: twinrat on February 23, 2012, 11:22:06 PM
holding your clutch in while waiting at lights or stationary traffic is just asking for clutch problems .always put bike in neutral while waiting in traffic and you wont get blued plates .THAT IS A SIGN OF A OVER HEATED CLUTCH .
You pretty much just said the opposite of what two motorcycle courses I have done tell you you should do.
Relaxing at a stoplight is a bad habit! Stay in gear and scan your mirrors/surroundings. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7D0BTyJBeM
-Jessie
Hi I think only one reply here was decent! That was to tell me how to adjust the clutch. Adjusted it while the cable was warmed up. And it seems to be good now. :thumb:
The plates were blue due to slipping with the previous friction plates. Sitting in gear at lights won't blue them up. I do put it into neutral anyway.
Cheers.
Quote from: twinrat on February 23, 2012, 11:22:06 PM
holding your clutch in while waiting at lights or stationary traffic is just asking for clutch problems .always put bike in neutral while waiting in traffic and you wont get blued plates .THAT IS A SIGN OF A OVER HEATED CLUTCH .
there is no difference whatsoever in clutch in/out and heat at a stop light. where did you get this idea ?
neutral is always the wrong place to be, on a bike. neutral is there for rolling the bike around the garage, if it's running, it's in gear. always.
if you want to justify your post, please try to explain how a clutch overheats.
see the millions of posts about sitting at a red light and getting tagged by a car/truck/bus because they couldn't move fast enough out of the way.
read up !
Quote from: twinrat on February 23, 2012, 11:22:06 PM
holding your clutch in while waiting at lights or stationary traffic is just asking for clutch problems .always put bike in neutral while waiting in traffic ....
To each his own (and I would be a lying hypocrite if I said I haven't done this once in a while), but just a word of advice; if you dont have your full M lisence and do this during your final ridden test. You fail. Atleast thats the case in my part of the world. Just putting that out there so new riders don't develop any bad habits before their test :thumb:
Quote from: mysterious_rider on February 24, 2012, 05:32:06 AM
Hi I think only one reply here was decent! That was to tell me how to adjust the clutch. Adjusted it while the cable was warmed up. And it seems to be good now. :thumb:
You'll find this forum does tend to stray from the original topics quite often. As long as the information being posted is useful it is allowed. Welcome to the circus ;)
-Jessie
When you come to a stop, hold your clutch in UNTIL THE CAR BEHIND YOU HAD MADE A COMPLETE STOP
THEN you can go into neutral and release the clutch lever.
I mean when you're in a car, do you hold the pedal in too?
Every safety course I've done has said to always stay in gear with the clutch in and your rear brake on to illuminate your brake light. Part of the "expect the unexpected" mind set. What if the car behind you is rear ended and pushed into you? What if the guy in front of you decides to back up for some reason? What if something happens with cross traffic and somebody swerves towards you?... In a car you have a protective cage, on a bike you do not. Different standards apply.
-Jessie
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on February 24, 2012, 10:21:39 AM
What if the car behind you is rear ended and pushed into you?
Yeah you are probably not going to see that happen 99% of the time unless you are constantly looking at your rear view mirror the whole time you are stopped
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on February 24, 2012, 10:21:39 AM
What if the guy in front of you decides to back up for some reason?
Then if you are in neutral you can walk your bike backwards or honk or just go into gear and ride out of the way.
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on February 24, 2012, 10:21:39 AM
What if something happens with cross traffic and somebody swerves towards you?
Can you illustrate this? I can't picture what you mean
Look into the Smith System of driving program. It is meant for cars but many of the concepts apply to motorcycling. I worked for a company where certification was required to drive company vehicles. One of the principles is scanning your mirrors to know what is going on behind you. A real world example where this worked was on an interstate off ramp. Traffic was backed up at the bottom of the ramp so we were at a dead stop. One of the Smith principles is to stop while you can still see the rear wheels of the car in front of you. Like I said, it is geared towards autos, not motorcycles, but the idea is to leave enough room to have an "out" should you need it. Scanning the rear view I see a pickup coming down the ramp kind of fast. I keep scanning my mirrors and see he is not slowing down. I used my "out" and ran the truck over the curb into the grassy area on the side of the ramp. Just as I thought, he wasn't paying attention and creamed the woman in front of me. I really remember this incident because the woman sued the company I worked for because I moved out of the way. Luckily when I jumped the curb it triggered the in truck camera so there was a video of the whole incident. In case you're curious, it is not illegal to avoid being hit :laugh: So long story short, had I been on a motorcycle and not paying attention I would have probably been killed.
Take it a step farther using your riding technique, what if I was the woman in front of me? If I had come to a stop and quit paying attention to my mirrors once the vehicle behind me stopped I would have been creamed just like she was. Had I come to a stop and continued to watch my surroundings I'm sure I would have been alarmed when I saw the truck behind me hopping a curb.
In the guy backing up scenario you are assuming the guy in front of you will be alert to your horn. He is already doing something erratic, why would a horn stop him?? You are also assuming there isn't another car with his bumper 3 inches from your rear tire. It may not seem like much but it does take time to put your bike in gear.
The other scenario I threw out there was sitting at a 4 way intersection with a stop light. You are at a red light and there is cross traffic. Now suppose a person or a dog steps out into traffic and that a driver swerves to miss them but in doing so starts on a collision course towards you. It is going to take time for your brain just to process what is going on, having your bike in gear and ready to move may give you the split second extra you need to get out of harms way.
I'm not looking to argue with you but there are a lot of noobs on this board and I hate to see bad habits/advice given to them. I have been riding/racing dirt bikes since I was a kid and have been into street bikes as long as I could legally ride them (close to 15 years now). I try to pass on the little bits of wisdom I have acquired in that time, whether or not you choose to follow it is your business.
-Jessie
I see your point, and I suppose it is an extra safety step to keep it in gear.
Keyword being "extra" though, which is always a good idea. :D
Think of it as looking out for #1 :thumb:
-Jessie
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on February 24, 2012, 04:59:42 AM
Relaxing at a stoplight is a bad habit! Stay in gear and scan your mirrors/surroundings. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7D0BTyJBeM
-Jessie
I get that staying in gear is the smart thing to do..
BUT
There is nothing he could have done to have avoided that. (I know the video was just an example)
Quote from: shonole on February 24, 2012, 03:36:04 PM
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on February 24, 2012, 04:59:42 AM
Relaxing at a stoplight is a bad habit! Stay in gear and scan your mirrors/surroundings. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7D0BTyJBeM
-Jessie
I get that staying in gear is the smart thing to do..
BUT
There is nothing he could have done to have avoided that. (I know the video was just an example)
I have to disagree. Had he been monitoring his mirrors while he was stopping he could have seen the xB not slowing down and swerved into the empty right lane. A little more distance between him and the car stopped in front of him wouldn't have hurt either. I'm not usually this argumentative, I swear... :laugh:
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/rearend.jpg)
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on February 24, 2012, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: shonole on February 24, 2012, 03:36:04 PM
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on February 24, 2012, 04:59:42 AM
Relaxing at a stoplight is a bad habit! Stay in gear and scan your mirrors/surroundings. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7D0BTyJBeM
-Jessie
I get that staying in gear is the smart thing to do..
BUT
There is nothing he could have done to have avoided that. (I know the video was just an example)
I have to disagree. Had he been monitoring his mirrors while he was stopping he could have seen the xB not slowing down and swerved into the empty right lane. A little more distance between him and the car stopped in front of him wouldn't have hurt either. I'm not usually this argumentative, I swear... :laugh:
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/rearend.jpg)
Unless he had the reaction time of a jet pilot (and even then), there is nothing he could have done. Should he have left more space between him and the car in front of him? Probably. But then, you can argue, since the driver of the xB failed to slow regardless, she would have hit him at a greater speed, likely causing greater injury.
Monitoring mirrors prior to stopping changes the entire scenario. And is also purely speculative. There is no guarantee he would have seen the xB (closing speed, lane changes, etc.) and been able to react sooner.
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on February 24, 2012, 09:52:51 AM
You'll find this forum does tend to stray from the original topics quite often. As long as the information being posted is useful it is allowed. Welcome to the circus ;)
-Jessie
Lmao I love this forum. :thumb:
Quote from: shonole on February 24, 2012, 04:08:55 PM
Unless he had the reaction time of a jet pilot (and even then), there is nothing he could have done. Should he have left more space between him and the car in front of him? Probably. But then, you can argue, since the driver of the xB failed to slow regardless, she would have hit him at a greater speed, likely causing greater injury.
Monitoring mirrors prior to stopping changes the entire scenario. And is also purely speculative. There is no guarantee he would have seen the xB (closing speed, lane changes, etc.) and been able to react sooner.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I posted that video initially because it reminds me so much of the rear ender I avoided in the work truck by paying attention to what was happening behind me.
-Jessie
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on February 24, 2012, 04:19:06 PM
Quote from: shonole on February 24, 2012, 04:08:55 PM
Unless he had the reaction time of a jet pilot (and even then), there is nothing he could have done. Should he have left more space between him and the car in front of him? Probably. But then, you can argue, since the driver of the xB failed to slow regardless, she would have hit him at a greater speed, likely causing greater injury.
Monitoring mirrors prior to stopping changes the entire scenario. And is also purely speculative. There is no guarantee he would have seen the xB (closing speed, lane changes, etc.) and been able to react sooner.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I posted that video initially because it reminds me so much of the rear ender I avoided in the work truck by paying attention to what was happening behind me.
-Jessie
I'm glad that you were able to avoid a rear end that way. But I can promise you it was an anomaly. Having spent the past decade in vehicular accident reconstruction (with the SWTEN, GOHS and NHTSA), I wish things were as easy as "be prepared, avoid the accident". Unfortunately there are hundreds of factors in each accident, and most are unavoidable (for the not at-fault driver).
FWIW, I agree with you. Scan your mirrors, shoulder check, stay in gear. I'm more nervous at a stoplight/sign than anywhere else.
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on February 24, 2012, 04:19:06 PM
Quote from: shonole on February 24, 2012, 04:08:55 PM
Unless he had the reaction time of a jet pilot (and even then), there is nothing he could have done. Should he have left more space between him and the car in front of him? Probably. But then, you can argue, since the driver of the xB failed to slow regardless, she would have hit him at a greater speed, likely causing greater injury.
Monitoring mirrors prior to stopping changes the entire scenario. And is also purely speculative. There is no guarantee he would have seen the xB (closing speed, lane changes, etc.) and been able to react sooner.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I posted that video initially because it reminds me so much of the rear ender I avoided in the work truck by paying attention to what was happening behind me.
-Jessie
That video you posted was a
rare occasion where I think that the car in front actually in a freak way helped him. If he had been sitting back further I think he would have been launched. I am not condoning following people closely, I like to always have an escape route but accidents can have really weird results like the one in this vid.
Quote from: shonole on February 24, 2012, 04:27:24 PM
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on February 24, 2012, 04:19:06 PM
Quote from: shonole on February 24, 2012, 04:08:55 PM
Unless he had the reaction time of a jet pilot (and even then), there is nothing he could have done. Should he have left more space between him and the car in front of him? Probably. But then, you can argue, since the driver of the xB failed to slow regardless, she would have hit him at a greater speed, likely causing greater injury.
Monitoring mirrors prior to stopping changes the entire scenario. And is also purely speculative. There is no guarantee he would have seen the xB (closing speed, lane changes, etc.) and been able to react sooner.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I posted that video initially because it reminds me so much of the rear ender I avoided in the work truck by paying attention to what was happening behind me.
-Jessie
I'm glad that you were able to avoid a rear end that way. But I can promise you it was an anomaly. Having spent the past decade in vehicular accident reconstruction (with the SWTEN, GOHS and NHTSA), I wish things were as easy as "be prepared, avoid the accident". Unfortunately there are hundreds of factors in each accident, and most are unavoidable (for the not at-fault driver).
FWIW, I agree with you. Scan your mirrors, shoulder check, stay in gear. I'm more nervous at a stoplight/sign than anywhere else.
Glad to know there is an expert on this board :thumb: This discussion has been the liveliest part of an otherwise boring day, I love this board!
-Jessie
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on February 24, 2012, 05:08:36 PM
Quote from: shonole on February 24, 2012, 04:27:24 PM
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on February 24, 2012, 04:19:06 PM
Quote from: shonole on February 24, 2012, 04:08:55 PM
Unless he had the reaction time of a jet pilot (and even then), there is nothing he could have done. Should he have left more space between him and the car in front of him? Probably. But then, you can argue, since the driver of the xB failed to slow regardless, she would have hit him at a greater speed, likely causing greater injury.
Monitoring mirrors prior to stopping changes the entire scenario. And is also purely speculative. There is no guarantee he would have seen the xB (closing speed, lane changes, etc.) and been able to react sooner.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I posted that video initially because it reminds me so much of the rear ender I avoided in the work truck by paying attention to what was happening behind me.
-Jessie
I'm glad that you were able to avoid a rear end that way. But I can promise you it was an anomaly. Having spent the past decade in vehicular accident reconstruction (with the SWTEN, GOHS and NHTSA), I wish things were as easy as "be prepared, avoid the accident". Unfortunately there are hundreds of factors in each accident, and most are unavoidable (for the not at-fault driver).
FWIW, I agree with you. Scan your mirrors, shoulder check, stay in gear. I'm more nervous at a stoplight/sign than anywhere else.
Glad to know there is an expert on this board :thumb: This discussion has been the liveliest part of an otherwise boring day, I love this board!
-Jessie
Me too! I'm a member of numerous forums, and this is, by far, the most comfortable, helpful group I've had the pleasure of sharing with. :bowdown:
A pleasure to give you your first kharma point sir ;)
-Jessie
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on February 24, 2012, 06:33:57 PM
A pleasure to give you your first kharma point sir ;)
-Jessie
Why thank you Sir. :icon_razz:
I believe you have me mistaken for Adfalchius (top end rebuild chick), all male here :laugh:
-Jessie
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on February 24, 2012, 08:01:01 PM
I believe you have me mistaken for Adfalchius (top end rebuild chick), all male here :laugh:
-Jessie
Hahaha. Sorry, fixed.
That's what I get for doing homework at the same time as I'm on here.
One person is doing homework, one is watching a Futurama re-run; who's life is more fulfilling?? :laugh:
-Jessie
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on February 24, 2012, 08:16:24 PM
One person is doing homework, one is watching a Futurama re-run; who's life is more fulfilling?? :laugh:
-Jessie
That's probably how I'll end my night.
The Devil's Hands Are Idle Playthings sounds like a great episode right about now. :icon_twisted:
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on February 24, 2012, 08:01:01 PM
I believe you have me mistaken for Adfalchius (top end rebuild chick), all male here :laugh:
-Jessie
Maybe if you spelled your name like most guys, people wouldn't be confused ;)
About keeping in gear and scanning...I have a friend who avoided an accident this way at a stop light. She felt the car behind her was coming up too quickly and pulled forward and to the side. The car ended up stopping right where she had been. The driver apologized and said she just wasn't paying attention and 'didn't see' her.
In air-cooled bikes, I have experienced clutch slippage when the bike gets hot in stop and go traffic. Basically, there is nothing you can do other than either stop and let it cool off, or get out of that traffic and take a route that is not stop and go.
BTW, after sitting at at hundreds of lights in the city, I have adopted the safety-school no-no strategy of putting it in neutral at the stop lights. Helps with the clutch issue (only a little) and also my less-than-Schwarzenegger hand grip after hundreds of lights. Just sayin'. Maybe my hyper-paranoid-awareness of all things around me in the city lets me know who's behind me before I pop it out of gear.
if any one could explain why there frction plates go blue and dont affect clutch action i will have been doing it wrong for 45years .to blue your clutch plates they would have had to have reached a temperature of between 560degrees to 640 degrees fahreheit inside your clutch basket which tells me your clutch is not running as free as you think it is.Iwould rather be in neutral if i got shunted from behind because a rear wheel shunt will jerk your throttle hand back and make you probably drop your
your clutch , YAHHOOOO full ahead forward. IF a vehicle reverses just you try getting out of gear while your OVERHEATED clutch IS TRYING TO DRAG YOU FORWARD ..
Quote from: twinrat on February 25, 2012, 01:27:11 AM
Iwould rather be in neutral if i got shunted from behind because a rear wheel shunt will jerk your throttle hand back and make you probably drop your
your clutch , YAHHOOOO full ahead forward.
I'm willing to bet that you will stall before this happens but that is beside the point. If it has worked for you for 45 years keep on doing what you been doing. Just letting you know that motorcycle courses are teaching you to take care of yourself before your clutch plates these days.
courses are there so you at least survive the first ten miles .but you cant beat experience.
Loud pipes save lives.
Don't touch the front brake.
Had to lay er down.
And my brand new favorite:
I didn't want to fry the clutch, so I was a sitting duck.
Sweet !
Quote from: twinrat on February 25, 2012, 01:27:11 AM
if any one could explain why there frction plates go blue and dont affect clutch action i will have been doing it wrong for 45years .to blue your clutch plates they would have had to have reached a temperature of between 560degrees to 640 degrees fahreheit inside your clutch basket which tells me your clutch is not running as free as you think it is.Iwould rather be in neutral if i got shunted from behind because a rear wheel shunt will jerk your throttle hand back and make you probably drop your
your clutch , YAHHOOOO full ahead forward. IF a vehicle reverses just you try getting out of gear while your OVERHEATED clutch IS TRYING TO DRAG YOU FORWARD ..
Biker is too close to the vehicle in front if he/she can't throttle around in the left or right lane, or shoulder.
Clutch isn't adjusted properly.
The rear wheel usually gets slammed horizontal (along with bike and rider) in a rear ender. It won't escape the 2000+ pounds of stupid that just hit it and suddenly wheelie, anywhere.
There was a thread once, about some guys out for a ride. Stopped at a light and watched the chevy full size, extra cab stop behind them in their mirrors. Then they relaxed, and kicked it into neutral. Shortly afterwards a drunk driver parked his car THROUGH the pickup and onto them. Could they have heard or seen it coming ? Don't know, wasn't there. I'll just keep doing things the clutch frying, uncomfortable, paranoid way.
Might as well jam some metallica @ 11 and look for quarters on the ground too.
Took it for a good 100mph 50 mile ragging last night. :icon_lol: Was a bit weird at first, clutch cooked a bit and acted up at 90ish. pulled over, readjusted by slacking it off slightly, i reckon i got it perfec now. Didn't play up at all and i went nuts on the poor girl. :-X
Quote from: twinrat on February 25, 2012, 01:27:11 AMto blue your clutch plates they would have had to have reached a temperature of between 560degrees to 640 degrees fahreheit inside your clutch basket which tells me your clutch is not running as free as you think it is.
I have no idea how hot this would make them, so I don't know that it's really part of the problem, but I'd imagine if a clutch cable was pulled too tight, and you spent months riding around with a slight amount of tension on the clutch cable, it would cause constant slipping and heat the up more. I hate that tiny bit of free play in the clutch cable, and always wish I could tighten it up right to the point of contact, but there's some things you just have to live with.
As far as neutral at lights, I do it all the time. I live in the city, and unless I leave town, I could spend half of my ride at redlights. I never just pull up to an intersection and pop it into neutral without thinking about it, but I will put it in neutral and keep an eye on my mirror until a car is pulling up behind me to make sure they're stopping properly, or else if it's a busier time and you're just moving light to light, as soon as you stop at a light you'll have 4 cars behind you and you don't really have to worry about the rear ending chain effect, as a 20mph car isn't going to be able to bump that many cars along. Streets are also tight enough that there isn't really a chance of a car shooting sideways and hitting you as it would be physically impossible for them to cut through the corner of a building, plow through a parallel parked car, and still get to you.
I still agree with what they teach you, but I know that with the riding experience I have, there are times I know it's safe to put it in neutral and a safety instructor isn't going to stand in front of a class and say "never put it in neutral, unless this happens.... this is going on.... or you're in this certain situation....", they're just gonna say no because there are more important things to focus on when someone is trying to learn. If I try to leave town out right after work for a nice ride I end up on a long downhill with cars stopped for probably 2-3 full city blocks, and it's a guarantee that you're gonna sit and watch the light go green and back to red more than 4 or 5 times, and there's no chance I'm gonna sit there with my hand on the clutch for 15 minutes as I'm sitting there in the sun in full gear now soaked in sweat. I pop it in neutral, unzip my jacket, keep my foot on the rear brake, and just let myself move up 5 feet at a time with the help of gravity. Sometimes I even shut the bike off and just start it when I get back to the bottom of the hill by the light.
you got it TT four I just didnt want to give a long winded explanation of something that you get from experiance. cheers
Quote from: mysterious_rider on February 25, 2012, 06:04:32 AM
Took it for a good 100mph 50 mile ragging last night. :icon_lol: Was a bit weird at first, clutch cooked a bit and acted up at 90ish. pulled over, readjusted by slacking it off slightly, i reckon i got it perfec now. Didn't play up at all and i went nuts on the poor girl. :-X
Good to hear you got it sorted. As long as you keep the oil up to her she can handle a good thrashing.
Okay well an update. :icon_lol:
Last night went for a run, had to adjust cable (slacken), was literally biting at the end. :dunno_black: So anyway im riding along, eventually the clutch lever gets too slack so again, (probs an hour of riding) I readjust cable to tighten it. Ride home. This morning I ride to work, all seems okay, bits a bit at the end but not too bad.... After work, ride home, some pretty bad rattling going on and its biting right at the end. So I slacken the cable. Thing is, after a while it will get too slack and ill have to re adjust again so its tighter. Why???
Going to open it BACK up tomorrow, and check the friction plates. I reckon they got burnt out while I was riding around with the clutch push rod overadjusted slightly. :icon_rolleyes:
Also replacing all the metal plates.