First of all, thanks to all forum members, this is officially the best forum that I've been. Everytime there was a member ready to help...I will miss this when problems arise on my future bike...for sure!
Aaaand...Yep...just sold my 97 faired GS500, and she will be sleeping in the street... :cry:
As soon as I got her running at 110%, I started riding with friends RR's and just want more fun in the bike...the choice was to invest in better suspension and tires or to get a better handling bike. The first is a kind of investment that I will never get back (except for the fun)..and then I saw a Yamaha R6 ad that needed repair...then I posted here about the viability of the R6...then somebody (Twisted) whispered: CBR600 F3.... :whisper: Then BaltimoreGS comes and say: That CBR 600 F3 is the only bike I regret selling?!
I had no chance, a man isn't made of steel...it took minutes to decide and post a online ad, that's how she looked like before she went:
(http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z368/piresito/th_SAM_1928.jpg) (http://s1186.photobucket.com/albums/z368/piresito/?action=view¤t=SAM_1928.jpg)
(http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z368/piresito/th_SAM_1933.jpg) (http://s1186.photobucket.com/albums/z368/piresito/?action=view¤t=SAM_1933.jpg)
(http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z368/piresito/th_SAM_1929.jpg) (http://s1186.photobucket.com/albums/z368/piresito/?action=view¤t=SAM_1929.jpg)
(http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z368/piresito/th_SAM_1947.jpg) (http://s1186.photobucket.com/albums/z368/piresito/?action=view¤t=SAM_1947.jpg)
Now...the fun part...CBR600F3 or Yzf600r? :icon_twisted:
Which one of the is more fun? The more reliable? The best mileage?
I'm already biased to the F3, but the are more pricey than the newer YZFs with less kilometers...does it really worth the difference or are they toe to toe?
Take an f3 for a spin. Take an r6 for a spin. Decide for yourself which of the two you feel better on.
:technical:
None of those, get an F4, its everything an F3 is and has an aluminum frame.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on March 03, 2012, 04:33:45 PM
:technical:
None of those, get an F4, its everything an F3 is and has an aluminum frame.
Cool.
Buddha.
And FI but I think the OP was on a budget so the F3 would be what I would look at. Like mister said try and take one of each for a ride. Bum in seat works a treat :thumb:
Quote from: Twisted on March 03, 2012, 05:16:07 PM
Quote from: The Buddha on March 03, 2012, 04:33:45 PM
:technical:
None of those, get an F4, its everything an F3 is and has an aluminum frame.
Cool.
Buddha.
And FI but
I apologize in advance if I'm starting to come off as a whiny know-it-all, I seem to be contradicting a lot of posts on here lately, but the F4 is still carbureted. Fuel injection debuted in 2001 on the F4i. Easy to distinguish by the dual headlights.
-Jessie
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on March 03, 2012, 05:35:34 PM
I apologize in advance if I'm starting to come off as a whiny know-it-all, I seem to be contradicting a lot of posts on here lately, but the F4 is still carbureted. Fuel injection debuted in 2001 on the F4i. Easy to distinguish by the dual headlights.
-Jessie
My mistake and thanks for the correction.
No worries ;)
-Jessie
The F4 is carbed, F4i is injected, and yea either or ... seriously I dont think you're gonna pay a premium for F3 vs F4 vs F4i in identical condition/miles.
I dunno I think steel frames are really for budget bikes. The public also isn't that sensitive, in fact 90% of the clowns think a GS frame is aluminum.
Just use the ignorance of the public @ large to your advantage.
Cool.
Buddha.
OP is in Portugal IRC. It is hard to say what the market is like there and what bikes are readily available. Maybe he can give us an idea.
Yes, I'm on a tight budget, that's why I'm/was considering the YZF600r, they are slightly cheaper.
The F3 seems to be the best compromise technology/budget. The F4 are 25% more expensive. The asking price on a fair condition 97/98 F3 is 2000 Euro and the F4 99/00 is 2500 Euro. For the F4i, no less than 3000 Euro, and at the moment there is none below 3500€, but I've seen them at 3000€. For that money or a couple hundred more, I would get a Gsxr-750 K1, which would be a long term acquisition as I have a fetish with that bike...
The YZF's, I can get them from 1500€ and up, with mileages around 50.000Kms (31000 miles).
Funny is that one may think that with the financial crisis (and media terrorism...) in the country the prices will go down so that the people can get cash, it's actually the opposite. People are too afraid to lose money in a deal so the prices are going up! :cookoo:
I do have to have a "stop price", and mine is at 1800 Euro. Yes, lower than the market asking price for the F3, but it's against my principles to bid at the asking price, and I bring cash, it make their eyes glow.... :icon_twisted:
Now, how different would be the aluminum frame? Engine changes in the F4 vs F3? One point I forgot to tell, I might take it to the track sometimes in the future as I'm planning a simple track course as I get it. I can't be on the track thinking about all the money I spent in it, afraid to go down.
My goal in this bike is to have fun. It has to be fun, good brakes and suspension. The power isn't all that important, the thing that I most missed in the GS was good brakes and cornering confidence.
I also got some news...today I tested an F3... I though that was the 97 model, but it was a 96 model registered in 97! Sh*t! Anyway, I rode it, and I never rode a bike with more than 50hp! WWooowoo, that was fun! 2nd gear full throttle (testing for gearbox problems) revs going up and around 9000rpm bang...ultra-fast-super-turbo-KITT mode! Crazy power! Slowed down looking at the speedometer at 140Kmh (around 85mph) in a country road...that put a big smile in my face! I noted that as I took me hand out of the clipons, the bike would have a tendency to go right, it wasn't much but it was there. As my friends tough me, it might be a indication of a warped frame so walk away...so I did, and it was the older F3 model anyway. But still fun!! :icon_mrgreen:
EDIT: thank you for your inputs, I really apprecciate you all sharing your experience like this! Thanks! :thumb:
The F4 had bigger forks than the F3. The engine was a complete redesign but it did not produce a lot more power than the F3. F3 to F4i is a much bigger leap forward than F3 to F4.
-Jessie
The YZF600 design went through a couple of different designs over the years from plain YZF600R (two models from '95-'96) to YZF600R2 (Thundercat) between '96 and '98, and then YZF-R6 starting in '99, then later an R6'S' model which was an older version of the R6 in between a couple of generations of YZF-R6 from '99-2007.
In general, the Yamaha motor in that bike was smoother than the CBR600 engine, with better shifting. It was also the bike that first featured Yamaha's monoblock front calipers, still considered great brakes today and sometimes used as an 'upgrade' on other earlier model Yamaha's like the FZR600 and FJ1200.
The only thing that might steer me away from the bike is the availability of people to service carburators in your area, although that may not be a concern for you.
I'd pick a CBR F3 over a YZF600r, but I'd pick an R6 over an F3. I'm sure the 600rs are nice enough bikes, I've just always thought they were ugly haha. If I was looking at bikes from that time period though, I think I'd go for a Suzuki SRAD hands down, gorgeous bikes. Not sure how the price compares to F3s though.
How much do the late 90's gixers go for in Portugal?
SAFE-T, the YZF600R in Portugal was sold even after the introduction of the R6. I think it was sold up to 2004 or 2006. Are those bikes (post 99 Thundercats) all the same or did they got some modification after the 98?
Servicing carburetors is not an issue as I learn to mess with it in the GS500, and I've got a repair shop just down the street, I can go with the bike rolling without engine to the shop if something goes wrong... :icon_mrgreen:
What makes me think twice about this bike is that 2nd gear jumping issue that a lot of Thundercat users seem to complain and that might not be as sporty as the CBR. Are this concerns legitimate or it is the same as the CBR?
Twisted, I've seen late 90's GSXR-600 (carbs) starting at 1800Euros, asking price. I have considered them, they are a little cheaper that CBRs, although I don't see any of those bikes with high mileages (>80Kmiles) and running great like I do on CBR. Is it just coincidence?
Be sure whomever bought your gs. that they come here. :wink: as you continue to do so. ive been w/o a gs for 4 years now. but have been here since 2003 so that may be my own weirdness.
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on March 05, 2012, 03:53:36 AM
Be sure whomever bought your gs. that they come here. :wink: as you continue to do so. ive been w/o a gs for 4 years now. but have been here since 2003 so that may be my own weirdness.
I will remember to give him that direction...he's just starting to ride the bike so I think he might need all the help I can get, and not only this, this is a great forum.
I thought about making a suggestion to the Mods to create a Other bikes section, but I might diffuse and ruin the forum as it is. I haven't seen anyone complain other bike question in the forum like it is and having no specific section moderates it a bit.
I forgot to say, here in Portugal (and most of the Europe) we pay high taxes in fuel, I heard close to 60%, so a liter of gasoline is close to 1.7€ = 2.24$ which would make a US gallon cost 8.5$...so
consumption is also a factor although far less relevant than fun.
I think Motorcycle Consumer News summed it up nicely in a comparo. Both motorcycles are well rounded. The YZF-600r is superior in the comfort department and is better on the freeway. The F4 is superior in the performance department and better on windy roads. It is all a matter of what you prefer.
Quote from: piresito on March 05, 2012, 02:49:21 AM
Twisted, I've seen late 90's GSXR-600 (carbs) starting at 1800Euros, asking price. I have considered them, they are a little cheaper that CBRs, although I don't see any of those bikes with high mileages (>80Kmiles) and running great like I do on CBR. Is it just coincidence?
Srads are pretty damn good bikes.
If Yamaha continued to sell the Thundercat in Europe after they stopped racing it in World Supersport (where it kicked butt, BTW) I doubt they would have changed much
Yamaha's 2nd gear disintegration problem has surfaced in plenty of their bikes over the years from mid-80's FJ1100's to early-models R6's. Yet I have also seen these same bikes with high-mileage that have not had gear box failures ~ probably depends more on how much they were abused and/or maintained by various owners.
Regulator/rectifier issues were a problem for lots of Honda's up until around 2001 when they changed suppliers.
F4I, because its a honda, efi, and goes 100000+ miles as a rule.
Rode with a guy on a yzf 2 weekends ago, 107;000 miles, excellent machine. Its worthless in bluebook dollars, but incredible in riding value.
Either will serve you well. Pick, ride, and enjoy.
Quote from: piresito on March 05, 2012, 02:49:21 AM
What makes me think twice about this bike is that 2nd gear jumping issue that a lot of Thundercat users seem to complain and that might not be as sporty as the CBR. Are this concerns legitimate or it is the same as the CBR?
That was a known problem on the 1st generation R6 too. Not a huge problem, but I've never owned an R6 and I've still heard about it haha
Thank for your inputs...I've been researching about those bike and I came to the conclusion:
-YZF are comfortable bikes and still allow to have some fun, altough most of them have or going to have 2nd gear problems. Of course, the treatment they had plays a big role but theres allways that risk, and it is a huge pain in the *ss. So I'm will try to avoid them.
-The CBRs...seem perfect, but a little higher priced.
-The GSXR are low priced, more in the supersports class than the other two, but I've seen some of the with premature oil consumtion. Tomorrow I will ride one, well priced altought it is the 97 model srad, I would prefer the 98/99 model.
What you people think of the GSXR vs the CBR?
Again, thank you all!
YZF-600r 2nd gear issue - There is a motion-pro kit that will fix this issue. If you can find one with a good second gear, buy a second gear and install the kit. The downside is that this involves a bottom end tear down, but there are videos online to walk you through the process.
Quote from: piresito on March 06, 2012, 05:04:22 PM
What you people think of the GSXR vs the CBR?
You will have to tell us after you take one for a ride.
I'm taking today the GSXR for a ride, if everything goes as planned...a review of that later...
But reliability related, both of them are at the same level?
I've never owned on but like the CBR I ahve not heard anyone say anything bad about them. Here is some reviews -
http://www.mcnews.com.au/Testing/gsxr600.htm
http://www.visordown.com/reviews/motorcycles/sportsbikes/suzuki-gsx-r600-srad-1997---2000/review/540.html
Just rode the GSXR yesterday, and didn't feel very impressed, nor too much disapointed...
It was a blue and white 1997 Srad 28.000Kms (18.000 miles). The owner didn't inspire much confidence, skinny punk, smoking hard, tatoos and rings all over the place. Nothing against punks as sometimes I'm one, but it looked like the kind of guy that at some time may not have the money for an oil change.
The 1997 model didn't have compression adjustment in the forks, and there was some engine tweaks in the later years. It appeared all stock, with some rashes of being droped, nothing major, just one or two scratches and a bent clutch lever.
The riding position is obviously more agressive, which I liked at first.
The tank is huge, it's like a kitchen table! Perfect to chop onions in it!
Nice Lcds temp gauge and odometer.
Firing it on was weird...it took two tries to get it working, and it was already warm. It idle was at 1000rpm, which is very low and it wasn't that nice and smooth idle of a 4 cylinder bike. I don't know if anyone of you as ever heard the idle of an Srad, but I found it more noisy than my old GS500. It has a cyclic rattle, and there was also a resonance/rattle when ridding it at 3/4Krpms. Maybe it just needed cam chain replacement/tensioner and valve adjustment.
Anyway, started riding it on heavy stop and go traffic which was a PITA compared to the GS500. The benefit was that when I reved it, caged drivers would know I'm there. As soon as I got clear road I stretched 2nd, 3rd and 4rd. Bellow 9000 Rpm it reminded me of my GS500. Not much power to it, I even thought that the bike was messed up...until I hit 9000 RPM, which felt like fighter jet afterburner on steroids. Didn't shaZam! on my pants because I didn't have any shaZam! ready.
I liked the brakes, very effective.
Cornering was strange as the front seemed to wobble. I even reviewed my body position, chicken flaped and still wobbles corner after corner. Riding it straight I could take my hands of the clip ons and it would go straight.
Comparing it to the CBR, I liked better the CBR. Felt smaller (I'm a small guy), could handle it better and it seemed to have more overall power than the GSXR.
Maybe I wasn't unimpressed due bad bike maintenance, not sure, I think I would give the Srad one more try. I know one with 36.000 Kms (20.000 Kmiles) that seems to be well cared.
This one:
(http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z368/piresito/th_1331155796_211223973_1-Fotos-de--Gsx-r-600-98.jpg) (http://s1186.photobucket.com/albums/z368/piresito/?action=view¤t=1331155796_211223973_1-Fotos-de--Gsx-r-600-98.jpg)
If it doesn't go well I will go back to the CBR or give the YZF a try.
More news to come... :thumb:
Those SRADS are spose to handle corners like they are on rails. Might have not had the correct tyre pressure :dunno_black:
Well, long story short, I found one F4 at less than an F3 price...what's the catch you ask?
25.000 Miles, no mirrors, aftermarket "Devil" exhaustt, no rear light, half turn signals won't work, need brake pads (rear brake disc already chewed, but still thick), 30 seconds after being at idle it will idle rougly and stall. All of this is fine for me to deal with. The owner assured me never had a crash the frame looks goods, the bike seems to handle good but still have to assure that the frame isn't bent (for that I wouldn't trust what the previoes owner says). If anyone know how to check for bent frame please share, I would appreciate it!
Even if it doesn't idle right, it has tonnes of power! And the power starts sooner than the other bikes I've tried.
Now, there is one bit of the problem...after I test ride it and made the deal, just 5 miles from home, the 2nd gear jumped at a tight right corner, and jumped 2 miles later during tight right hand corner also. f%$k, f%$k, f%$k, f%$k!!
Funny that under heavy load at WOT it wouldn't jump, and it seems to jump when gearing down from 3 to 2nd and in tight right hand corners.
When parking it home, it left 4 drops of oil in the floor, as can be seen in the pictures:
(http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z368/piresito/th_SAM_2003.jpg) (http://s1186.photobucket.com/albums/z368/piresito/?action=view¤t=SAM_2003.jpg)
(http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z368/piresito/th_SAM_2002.jpg) (http://s1186.photobucket.com/albums/z368/piresito/?action=view¤t=SAM_2002.jpg)
I know that this is not a GS500...can someone point me directions on this? Should I got to a Honda forum? Should I ride a little more to check if it wasn't my mistake changing gear or should I open it up so it won't scratch other gearbox parts?
Again, thank you all!
mmm..... I can't ever get over how gorgeous those SRADs are, I wish bikes still looked like that!
Congrats on finding the F4. So do you own it now or are you waiting to make sure the frame is straight before you transfer the title?
I hope there is not to much wrong with it.
I do own it now, there is not much to do if the frame isn't straight. I have a friend of a friend with bolts in his arm due to a bent frame. I will fix all the electronics, carbs, and everything I can, then I will take it to a nice mechanic that can assure me of the straightness of the frame. If not staight, I hope I can sell it for the same price as I got it plus the parts I spent on. If straight, it would be a nice loud ride!! :thumb:
Anyone of you know how to make a rear wheel stand to get the bike upright while working in it? There are those rear wheel stands and I'm buying it in the future, money doesn't stretch and I don't know how much I will be spending on the bike itself...anywhere I can save it would be nice.
So, any creative ghetto rear wheel stand alternative?
Why not go get a mechanic to see if it is straight before you do any work on the bike? It would be a waste of time to fix stuff up and then find out it is bent. :dunno_black:
You mean a stand like this?
(http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/attachments/f2/25751d1308679559-wooden-motorcycle-lift-stand-motorcycle-stand-resize.jpg)
http://www.ehow.com/way_5437866_homemade-motorcycle-stand.html
All the bikes you mention are way fast for the street. None of them will disappoint if you want performance, but if you're on a tight budget your GS is your best friend. Watch gas hit five bucks this summer. I hope it doesn't but that's what I'm expecting. You will not get good mileage with 100+ HP. Crotch rockets suck gas, even 600cc, they cost more to maintain, and I don't think they are generally as reliable as a GS, especially 10 years old. I know a guy who bought a 2005 Gixxer 600 that looked and ran great but 3 months later he dropped a valve. The good deal went out the window. It's pretty hard to drop a valve with a GS. Just some things to think about when you're on a tight budget. I hope you're happy with your choice. Best of luck.
Quote from: Twisted on March 11, 2012, 12:19:25 AM
Why not go get a mechanic to see if it is straight before you do any work on the bike? It would be a waste of time to fix stuff up and then find out it is bent. :dunno_black:
You mean a stand like this?
(http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/attachments/f2/25751d1308679559-wooden-motorcycle-lift-stand-motorcycle-stand-resize.jpg)
http://www.ehow.com/way_5437866_homemade-motorcycle-stand.html
Yep, something like that but easier to make. There are some alternatives in the link you gave but I guess I will be using a car jack to lift it up the two hard boxes to hold it in that position.
I will get the bike running the best I can either if the frame is bent or not. It will allways raise the bike value, as I'm not throwing it to the garbage if it is bent.
Quote from: bill14224 on March 11, 2012, 09:19:41 AM
All the bikes you mention are way fast for the street. None of them will disappoint if you want performance, but if you're on a tight budget your GS is your best friend. Watch gas hit five bucks this summer. I hope it doesn't but that's what I'm expecting. You will not get good mileage with 100+ HP. Crotch rockets suck gas, even 600cc, they cost more to maintain, and I don't think they are generally as reliable as a GS, especially 10 years old. I know a guy who bought a 2005 Gixxer 600 that looked and ran great but 3 months later he dropped a valve. The good deal went out the window. It's pretty hard to drop a valve with a GS. Just some things to think about when you're on a tight budget. I hope you're happy with your choice. Best of luck.
Relax...where I live gas is well over 10$ for an US gallon... :mad: