I took the bike out last night because of the nice 70* weather :woohoo: and while trying to get it up to speed I noticed power fell off dramatically as soon as I hit higher RPM. I can't even get the thing to rev higher once it hits this point!
Does anyone have input on what could be causing this?
Bike is completely stock as far as I know. Might I need a larger main jet ?
Thanks,
Tron
Fuel starvation from the tank or carb breather vent, clogged air filter, sticky float not allowing fuel in,........that's all I have. I'm going to bed.....
If the bike is stock and in good running order, it will go above 7 grand.
If it sat for a while, the main jets could be varnished. Check to see that all the fuel lines are not kinked and both petcock's are on....if that does not solve it, I would suggest cracking the carbs for a good cleaning.
Try getting it past 5k in all gears - 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc., to see if it is gear related.
If you can get past 5k in the lower gears but it will not play ball in 6th, that is a different issue to not getting past 5k in all gears.
My stock bike will get to redline in the lower gears. 4th gear at 9,000rpm is 140kph (88mph)
Report back which.
Michael
The most probable cause of your issue lies within your carburetors. If you could, post what year and mileage the bike has.
If you had the bike sitting around for a while it's likely that the carbs are gummed up.
List of possible culprits:
-Cracked/broken diaphragms.
-Stuck or sticking floats.
-Pinched or otherwise malformed fuel lines.
-Sticking frame petcock. To check this easily, set to "PRI" position and try riding it again - just do NOT leave it sitting in this position. As soon as you shut the bike off, turn it back to ON or RES. The floats/needles on these carbs are notoriously weak and leaving it in the PRI position will cause you a huge headache.
-Varnished/clogged main jets. However, it's pretty unlikely considering it runs - usually if they're gummed up bad enough to clog the main jets, the pilots will be completely clogged completely. If this was the case, the bike wouldn't idle or accept any throttle input.
-Clogged or kinked carburetor vent line.
It's a 1993 with 20K+ miles on it, I have been starting and letting it idle about once a week all winter with a few low speed rides on "warmer" days. I put about 1/4 can of seafoam in the tank when I first got it in December. I just put about a 1/2 tank of new gas in it last night.
I have been putting it to prime to ride it b/c when its in the ON position it doesn't like to start. I was riding it in 1st-4th gear and hitting the end of the throttle twist and it would not go past 5-6K.
Looks like I'm gonna have to start tearing the carbs apart this weekend...
Quote from: Tronspeed3 on March 07, 2012, 01:12:21 PM
It's a 1993 with 20K+ miles on it, I have been starting and letting it idle about once a week all winter with a few low speed rides on "warmer" days. I put about 1/4 can of seafoam in the tank when I first got it in December. I just put about a 1/2 tank of new gas in it last night.
I have been putting it to prime to ride it b/c when its in the ON position it doesn't like to start. I was riding it in 1st-4th gear and hitting the end of the throttle twist and it would not go past 5-6K.
Looks like I'm gonna have to start tearing the carbs apart this weekend...
This sounds like a good indication of something to me. I'd be willing to bet that you've got a fuel delivery issue...meaning one of your lines. It MIGHT not be your carbs, but then again, the thing you mentioned might also be a completely separate issue.
You should get yourself a set of #40 pilot jets and new float bowl gaskets before you tear into it.
[quote\
Quote from: Kijona on March 07, 2012, 01:18:55 PM
Quote from: Tronspeed3 on March 07, 2012, 01:12:21 PM
It's a 1993 with 20K+ miles on it, I have been starting and letting it idle about once a week all winter with a few low speed rides on "warmer" days. I put about 1/4 can of seafoam in the tank when I first got it in December. I just put about a 1/2 tank of new gas in it last night.
I have been putting it to prime to ride it b/c when its in the ON position it doesn't like to start. I was riding it in 1st-4th gear and hitting the end of the throttle twist and it would not go past 5-6K.
Looks like I'm gonna have to start tearing the carbs apart this weekend...
This sounds like a good indication of something to me. I'd be willing to bet that you've got a fuel delivery issue...meaning one of your lines. It MIGHT not be your carbs, but then again, the thing you mentioned might also be a completely separate issue.
You should get yourself a set of #40 pilot jets and new float bowl gaskets before you tear into it.
Good places to get those 2 things ?
Quote from: Tronspeed3 on March 07, 2012, 01:41:21 PM
[quote\Quote from: Kijona on March 07, 2012, 01:18:55 PM
Quote from: Tronspeed3 on March 07, 2012, 01:12:21 PM
It's a 1993 with 20K+ miles on it, I have been starting and letting it idle about once a week all winter with a few low speed rides on "warmer" days. I put about 1/4 can of seafoam in the tank when I first got it in December. I just put about a 1/2 tank of new gas in it last night.
I have been putting it to prime to ride it b/c when its in the ON position it doesn't like to start. I was riding it in 1st-4th gear and hitting the end of the throttle twist and it would not go past 5-6K.
Looks like I'm gonna have to start tearing the carbs apart this weekend...
This sounds like a good indication of something to me. I'd be willing to bet that you've got a fuel delivery issue...meaning one of your lines. It MIGHT not be your carbs, but then again, the thing you mentioned might also be a completely separate issue.
You should get yourself a set of #40 pilot jets and new float bowl gaskets before you tear into it.
Good places to get those 2 things ?
Ask Adidasguy on here if he has some extra #40 pilot jets. The other guy to ask would be The Buddha. Otherwise, post in the "For Sale/Wanted" section.
Float bowl gaskets: http://www.bikebandit.com/search?dsNav=Ntk:All|13258%2f-44B00|3|
Before you go getting new jets blah blah blah, check all your fuel lines. Could be pinched line, clogged fuel filter if you have put one of those in.
Quote from: Tronspeed3 on March 07, 2012, 01:12:21 PM
It's a 1993 with 20K+ miles on it, I have been starting and letting it idle about once a week all winter with a few low speed rides on "warmer" days. I put about 1/4 can of seafoam in the tank when I first got it in December. I just put about a 1/2 tank of new gas in it last night.
From this paragraph, I would say your carbs need cleaned out. It doesn't take very long for gas to go bad, especially when it comes to gumming up jets.
Quote from: mister on March 07, 2012, 04:54:49 PM
Before you go getting new jets blah blah blah, check all your fuel lines. Could be pinched line, clogged fuel filter if you have put one of those in.
I guess I should've asked where he is/where the bike is from first but if he's in the US, the #40 pilot jets are a very worthwhile upgrade even for a stock bike. Since he'll be messing with the carbs anyway, I think it's worthwhile to put the #40 jets in.
If you're in the US, and the bike was sold in the US, it will have either #37 or 37.5 pilot jets. This is what makes the bike have a flat spot in the power band, even right from the factory. It isn't what is causing your issue, but is worth fixing while you're there.
Before you go tearing the carbs apart, you should have a new set of float bowl gaskets waiting. A bike that old that's probably never been messed with is going to need new ones. I tried to reuse mine and it immediately started leaking - even though they looked great and were 5 years newer than yours are.
With a problem like this I'd first try isolating it, is it a carb problem or is it a petcock/gas line problem? I'd try running a hose from the gas tank directly to the carbs and take it for a ride and if it revs up OK then forget the carbs for now and look into a petcock/fuel line problem. And don't completely rule out a battery/ignition problem at this point, starting and letting a bike idle for a while and then shutting it off in the winter just runs the battery down. Doesn't charge while idling. If you start it, ride it. Low voltage can cause spark loss at higher rpms.
thanks for all the replies, I got some new #40 jets waiting to go in thanks to Adidas and am waiting on new float bowl gaskets from bikebandit... Didn't know about the charging at low RPM thanks for the input I'll just put the battery tender on it and leave it next winter.
Also forgot to turn the petcock back to on after riding yesterday= pool of black ooze under the bike... besides cleaning the motor off so it doesn't start on fire any other issues this might have caused?
Quote from: Tronspeed3 on March 12, 2012, 09:07:58 AM
thanks for all the replies, I got some new #40 jets waiting to go in thanks to Adidas and am waiting on new float bowl gaskets from bikebandit... Didn't know about the charging at low RPM thanks for the input I'll just put the battery tender on it and leave it next winter.
Also forgot to turn the petcock back to on after riding yesterday= pool of black ooze under the bike... besides cleaning the motor off so it doesn't start on fire any other issues this might have caused?
Might have flooded your crank case with fuel. No bueno amigo. Might want to check your oil level. If it's "way high" meaning way over "F" you need to change the oil.
Took the carbs apart tonight after I took the bike for a ride, and cleaned everything inside. None of the jets looked clogged but I replaced the pilots with the #40 ones. Someone has definitely been in those before, as there were 2 washers under the needle, the diaphragm cover had the nipple broken off and was sealed with silicone, and the idle mix screws had been changed.
I'm not even sure where to start if this doesn't work!
What size were the main jets?
I'd say your problem is the busted nipple. They probably used something non chemical resistant to seal it and over time it's began to leak. That would explain the symptoms of a vacuum leak.
Permatex makes a sealant that is completely resistant to gasoline and can be had from most major autoparts stores. I'd try that first.
I would strongly suggest not messing with carb jets until you get the bike running right or at least as good as it was for the past 19 years. Listen to the more reasonable suggestions first (pinched fuel line, bad gas, clogged breather hose) before attempting performance upgrades! All you need is to start chasing new "issues" when the bike is not running right to begin with. Just my 2c.
I think I found the issue!!! the boot that connects the carb to the cylinder head on the left side was pretty much in 2 pieces. I think the crack around the boot under vacuum would be letting in air and throwing off the air/fuel mix. I ordered another on off bike bandit and am in waiting for it to be delivered .
Got it mostly back together last night! After battling with the air box for an hour (stupid rubber boots), I put the fuel line on the tank and Dammit! a hole in the hose at the tank petcock. Will be up a running tonight hopefully!
Any suggestions on air/fuel mix screw settings for the #40 pilot and stock main jet? I'll probably start with 2 turns out.
Quote from: Tronspeed3 on March 27, 2012, 06:39:12 AM
Got it mostly back together last night! After battling with the air box for an hour (stupid rubber boots), I put the fuel line on the tank and Dammit! a hole in the hose at the tank petcock. Will be up a running tonight hopefully!
Any suggestions on air/fuel mix screw settings for the #40 pilot and stock main jet? I'll probably start with 2 turns out.
If the bike is completely stock, most people run at 2.5-3.5 turns out. Might be a good idea to start at 3? Dunno, I know they seem to differ sometimes - I know mine refused to run at 2 turns.
Then again, it might be better to just leave it alone for now. Only reason I suggested the #40 jets is because it's an easy upgrade and it's worth doing, especially if you're going to mess with the carbs anyway.
#40 pilot jets surely isn't going to make the bike run worse.
Got it running again and it idles real nice now without the choke on! Then I decided to change the oil and filter ... The acorn nuts and studs are stripped out and I cant get the filter cover back on! Does anyone have a place to buy them from ?
Never mind,I hope 6mm X 1in is correct! an new acorn nuts! stupid tiny bolts !!! :mad:
Update: picked up exact duplicate studs from true value along with some regular nuts and washers to fix the the stripping issue... i'll just torque them to 60 IN-LB and be done with it :technical: hopefully the seal doesn't roll out of the groove on me this time and I cut it to shreds!
Ok fixed the stripped out studs and got it running and it still really struggles to rev past 6k "with me on it" but sitting on the stand in neutral it'll rev right to 11k no problem... however I think I might have found the issue, when sitting on the bike if I pull the left spark plug wire off the motor doesn't miss a beat. However if I put the left plug wire back on and remove the right side plug wire it dies instantly. I am getting electricity to the left side because it shocked the shaZam! out of my hand when i put it back on with the bike running.
Any suggestions? :bowdown:
Pull the tank off and swap coils.
I'm just going to take it into a shop and have them fix it... :( I've had enough and my wife is pretty pissed I've spent every night for the last week in the garage. We'll see what they say....Thanks to everyone for the help!
Whelp looks like I'm doing this myself now none of the shops around here work on anything that's older than 1996 and the one that will is booked out 2 months. FML
Quote from: Big Rich on March 28, 2012, 10:25:03 PM
Pull the tank off and swap coils.
I'm not sure if its a coil issue, it definitely had spark going to the plug wire when I pulled it off. I'm going to do a compression check after I go buy a gauge on my way home tonight. I think the float might be stuck closed if that's possible?
Quote from: Tronspeed3 on March 29, 2012, 09:16:52 AM
I'm just going to take it into a shop and have them fix it... :( I've had enough and my wife is pretty pissed I've spent every night for the last week in the garage. We'll see what they say....Thanks to everyone for the help!
Whelp looks like I'm doing this myself now none of the shops around here work on anything that's older than 1996 and the one that will is booked out 2 months. FML
Tell them it's a 2010 with the fairings removed. The motor is the same, and there are very few differences in the carbs through the years. Or don't they know how to work on a bike without plugging it into a laptop?
Back to switching the coils: switch the spark plugs as well. Adidas got a couple bad spark plugs - including new ones. If the problem stays on one side, then it's either: carbs, valves, or piston rings.
Quote from: Big Rich on March 29, 2012, 12:20:43 PM
Back to switching the coils: switch the spark plugs as well. Adidas got a couple bad spark plugs - including new ones. If the problem stays on one side, then it's either: carbs, valves, or piston rings.
Thanks a million Rich!!! :bowdown: new plugs fixed it :woohoo: Thing is fast as hell now! well compared to what it was! you should of seen the nasty black smoke that poured out of the exhaust when I swapped the plugs from all the unburnt fuel.
Whelp just got back from a nice 1/2 mile trip pushing the bike the whole way after it died... :flipoff: just cruising around a turn in 2nd then all of the sudden just no power and bluh it dies.
Before I took it out at idle there was fluid coming out of the left exhaust pipe to head connection. It didn't smell like gas but I don't know what else it could be? it made a pretty good puddle but wasn't oily either, and when I first started it wouldn't rev again and then all of the sudden it came on and ran fine until just before it died.
Now it won't start at all, it turns over with the starter but will not fire. I pulled each plug and it sparks against the cylinder head. So it's either compression or fuel right?
Bump
Could just be condensation if you haven't ridden the bike much lately.
Are the plugs wet after trying to start the motor? And keep the battery charged up while you are trying......
I had the battery jumpered to my car battery and the plugs looked dry when I pulled them.
Hat to state the obvious...
Do you have enough fuel?
Have you tried it in prime?
Is the undertank petcock set so the notch is up and down?
Michael
Yes there is gas in the tank and the fuel lines are full since I have clear ones on there. I rode it 100 miles round trip to work last week without issue. I parked it until yesterday when it fired right up and then died mid trip.
I've tried it on prime, res and on and it still wont even act like it wants to fire
If the plugs are dry, then it's probably your carbs. Make sure there is gas in the bowls first. Then it may be time to clean your pilot jets and enrichening circuit (choke).
Whelp just took the bike apart again and checked the fuel in the float bowls and there wasn't too much in there. I didnt have any clear tube handy so didn't check the hieght via the drain. I pulled the carbs off and am gonna try soaking them in pinesol and blowing out anything with the air compressor. Also ordered a rebuild kit off eBay so ill probably let them soak until that gets here. I will check the float hieght before I put the bowls back on.
pinesol? Interesting.
Quote from: dropitlow88 on April 14, 2012, 05:42:42 AM
pinesol? Interesting.
Google it, it's safe on orings and plastic parts but also cuts varnish easily. Plus it smells good
Even more interesting lol. Learn something new every day.
Got all my parts and rebuilt the carbs last night, couldn't figure out where the smallest O-ring in the K&L kit was supposed to go? Put everything back together and she fired right up and idled pretty good. Took it out for a test ride at 11:30pm and she runs through all the gears and to redline no problem.
I guess something was clogged and the pinesol soak and compressed air/wd-40 cleaned it out. Thanks for all the help everyone!
Wow, what a mechanic ride (nightmare) that was for you. I've been going through the same ordeal kinda myself on my 2004 etc. So Good job! Hand your wife a bill for $300 plus. That's what I was told it would cost to fix mine anyways. Its been very frustrating for myself since the weather has been so great and I've not ridden in over a year. Hopfully mine will be back together by this weekend. Now that you got it all cleaned and running nicely, I'd suggest you start using only 100% gas instead of the ethanol crap if you can find it. If not get you a bottle of stabilizer and start putting that in your tank. It can't hurt because I've definitely learn the hard way. All of my gas lawn equipment have been in the same shape and its been a pain to fix it all myself. It seems I've become a small engine repair shop now LOL all because of this cheap fuel. My one year old peasure washer is now in the repair shop for the same reasons too and so I'm just plain over it! I'm hopping the warranty will cover it but I doubt it. Anyway, it's my own fault for not putting in a stabilizer, so hopefully this will not happen again for me. So I've bought the Amsoil Stabilizer since I'm a "preferred costumer" and I'm going start using it.