GStwin.com GS500 Message Forum

I have an HJC CL-14 helmet, size M. It was the cheapest one they had at the store, and it fit my head well, so I bought it. I figured it would protect my noggin just as well as the more expensive ones.

I have two problems with it, and was thinking of getting another helmet anyway, in case I wanted to take anybody else with a medium-sized head for a ride.

Problem number 1: At highway speeds, if I turn my head the slightest bit, my head gets jerked back. My helmet seems to act as a sail unless my head is in exactly the right position. Are the higher priced helmets more aerodynamic?

Problem number 2: The other day I was parked in front of a building with huge plate glass windows. Now, the primary reason I ride is that it is fun. But I have to admit, I like to look cool, too. As I was getting the bike warmed up, I looked over at my reflection in the window, and realized the my head looks GIGANTIC in this helmet. Imagine a stick person with a big circle as a head. I'm usually all for looking skinnier without having to diet or exercise, but looking skinny because you have an enormous head just isn't flattering. Are the higher priced helmets made out of a material that is thinner while providing the same amount of protection?

Does anybody have any helmet suggestions? Thanks.

Laura

yes more expensive helmets are more areodynamic, and it doesn't matter what helmet you get you head will look huge

I had the same experience as you.  I bought a $95 fulmer helmet when I first picked up my GS.  It got me on the road, but it was heavy and bulky.

If you're riding an unfaired bike on the highway and you turn your head sideways, the wind is gonna hit you no matter what you're wearing.  Still, I did feel some difference between the Fulmer and my 'new' helmet.

I just switched my Fulmer for an HJC CL-12 (current model = CL-14)helmet now that I bought used from an acquaintance.  Its got a much better profile and I feel more comfortable in it at highway speeds.  I would say to prevent the sail-effect and whistling (my fulmer whistled at 80mph... annoying) the #1 thing to look for is not to get a helmet with alot of goofy design elements sticking out from the surface... look for a nice bullet shape, and get a good brand like Shoei or HJC.

Quotemy head looks GIGANTIC in this helmet

Try wearing puffier clothes... it'll make your head look smaller  :mrgreen:   :lol:  :cheers:

seriously though, i've found that if I'm wearing a t-shirt with my helmet on, i look ridiculous.  If I have my leather jacket on with the shoulder armor in (as I ALWAYS do when riding) I look much more properly proportioned... just a thought.

peace

Yeah, Either way your head is gonna look ginormous. As far as a more expensive helmet, it is basically going to offer the same protection, but with reduced weight.

You might try and experiment with adding foam behind the fabric lining of your helmet, and/or adding some pads on the chinbar on the cheek area to make the fit snug.  I've had some helmets that were snug front to back, but some looseness on the sides caused twisting problems at higher speeds.  I "shimmed up" the sides and the twisting lessened.  Most helmets do this after a year or two when the soft foam deteriorates from perspiration or simple oxidation.  

If you want a smaller helmet for a given size, keep in mind that the bulk of the helmet is the dense styrofoam that actually provides the impact protection.  You might find that DOT certified helmets have smaller exterior dimensions than Snell-certified ones, which must withstand more rigorous impacts to make the grade.   The most expensive helmets are constructed with shells that contribute to impact absorption which in turn enables the manufacturer to use less styrofoam, therefore making the helmet more aerodynamic.

i went with an arai for several reasons, even though it was expensive.  first there was the shape issue.   i needed an XS helmet,  plus my head is oval shaped which i found out by trying on different brands of helmets.  none of them ever were small enough and none of them felt secure around my cheeks.  with the signet -gtr i found the shape that felt the best, plus i could change out the cheek pads and the top pad and buy thicker ones if i needed to, which i did.  
as i was riding this summer, i had the same effect you had with the wind.  so at the motorcycle show i picked up some of the thicker pads and it's 100% better.  the wind doesn't  smash my helmet to the side anymore, it feels more like an extension of my body.
plus with the arai, i have more ventilation options than my roomate with her shoei.  i believe she has a rf-900, but i'm not sure since it's not here right now.  for my situation, the arai was definately the way to go and well worth the $ i paid for it.

Heh....

Remember what the helmet is for...Protection.... the helmet is designed to absorb and spread out as much of the impact as it can....(thats what the inner liner does...do you want less liner there?!?!!?)

Personally I think My head is worth a better (yes usually more expensive) quality helmet......

Function before form when it comes to helmets..... Make sure they fit your head correctly too . I have Shoei  Head....They always fit me best.


Cheaper helmets were (are?) made of more of a plastic compound....The plastic ones tend to bounce more than the fiberglass based ones do...  Much more likely to hurt (or even break) your neck from a bounce...

You get what you pay for...

Is your head worth another 50-100$? every 4-5 years?

Anyway....

well, i have a NOLAN and its perfect. except the part that is still i lil 2 big. i just were a tobagon under my helmet. makes for a tight fit, and also for the winter it keeps my head a lil warmer. and the weight, its not bad at all. a lil wind noise not much. or in this case, i can hear my engine goin 70 down the interstate in every gear. i also have a wind screen so that helps alot. it was originally for the moma but she has one she likes better so its mine. anyway my dad paid 90 bucks on it. he was recently in a wreck with his helmet (forgot what kind) but he paid 120 for his. of course now it looks like crap but we still keep it in the garage and i look at it every tie we go out for a ride. it reminds me not to get complacent. i still kick it up a good bit though. but anyways, who cares what you look like or if it makes wind noise. just get a helmet that fits and your omfy with. its supposed to save your life not make you look cool. thats my opinion on this subject

A cheaper helmet shouldn't necessarily be bad in a protection sense, would it? Anything with a DOT/Snell sticker on it had to meet some sort of standard, so they can't be all that bad.  :dunno:

The biggest difference I've found is comfort. I have a cheap helmet I used to use before I got my Shoei, and now I can't even stand how it feels on my head for even a couple minutes. Funny how it never really bothered me before. The Shoei's got me spoiled now.  :)

If you don't really ride much, a cheap helmet can get you by. If you ride alot though, and for long distances occasionally, you owe it to yourself to get the best quality you can afford. It really is worth it!

I like to draw a comparison to work shoes. Some of the people I work with buy the absolute cheapest safety shoes they can find, which makes little sense to me. Sure, they protect you well enough, but you suffer comfort-wise cuz you're in them all day. Same thing there...buy the best you can afford, it's worth it.  :thumb:

John

JohnNS is on to something. Cheaper helmets protect the same as pricier fare, assuming they all meet DOT/Snell ratings. Pricier helmets will give more features which will make wearing the helmet more comfortable-venting, lighter weight, better visor positions, chin fairing, removable liners for washing, etc.

Fit is the most important aspect and a helmet should be chosen on that basis primarily-then on make, color, etc. Arai is one of the best (lets save the my helmet is better than yours for another thread) because they have different shaped helmets to accomodate different heads. They're different lines are all different shapes.

A helmet, when bought new should feel like its one size too tight and not give you any hot spots (pressure points on your head). As it breaks in it will fit like a glove.

I for one, am all for helmet style being higher on the list of criteria.

The single most important safety feature of a helmet is getting it on your head before you go riding. If its uncomfortable, heavy or ugly as all get out, you are going to be that much less inclined to actually wear it.

Does style come before function? No, but style and function are not mutually exclusive.

just one thing
before you go buy a really expensive helmet get the rest of your gear... at least a jacket  because your head is no good if you don't have a body to put it on

Having a DOT sticker on the helmet doesn't mean that the helmet has been tested to meet the DOT standards. It means the manufacturer SAYS it meets the DOT standards. DOT doesn't test the helmets, but accepts the word of the manufacturer that it will meet the standards. A Snell rating on the helmet means the manufacturer has actually submitted samples, and that they have been tested and passed. It's more of a marketing issue than a safety issue.

I can't believe that a manufacturer who claims to meet 'DOT' standards doesn't have to bear a burden of proof.  There has to be some data to support it, and it has to be subject to some sort of third-party audit, or the 'DOT' rating would mean nothing.

There have been cases of DOT mandated helmet recalls because the helmets didn't meet the standards. But, it's always after they've been manufactured and sold. Big name manufacturers aren't going to risk their reputation selling substandard helmets. A marketing company that contracts with an inexpensive overseas manufacturer doesn't have as much to lose. It's a case of the industry being left to police themselves. Some will play by the rules, and some won't.

Vtlion has to be right, In Europe we work to EC (or CE if you're French) or ISO standards, In UK only BSI still applies in a few areas. My company does this stuff and we have to be internally audited by other departments and Externally audited by the appropriate Authority. They sometimes suggest corrective measures and this all gets published in those boring safety mags that no-one reads but it is there. A lot of this stuff is governed by world-trade measures, the U.N. and the like, surely the U.S. does the same.

Hey- thanks for all the info. (Even though some of it is contradictory!)

If I'm reading things correctly, it sounds like most of the sail effect is from riding an unfaired bike, but if I put a bit more padding in, the helmet might not twist as much.

QuoteThe most expensive helmets are constructed with shells that contribute to impact absorption which in turn enables the manufacturer to use less styrofoam, therefore making the helmet more aerodynamic.

Aha. So if this is correct, I CAN buy a helmet which is thinner yet affords the same amount of protection as a thicker helmet.

QuoteTry wearing puffier clothes... it'll make your head look smaller

:)  but then I'll look fat when I take the helmet off. Or I could have inflatable clothes. Anyway...

I probably will buy one of the higher end helmets. I like the idea of a thinner helmet with removable, washable padding. (Especially in the summer!)

QuoteRemember what the helmet is for...Protection...

I agree, although some people wear them for warmth. A lot of people ride scooters around here, and when it's warm out, I hardly see any of them with helmets on, except for girls with cute little helmets matching their Vespas. Now that it's cold, lots of people on scooters wear full face helmets. I saw three Harley riders today, and they were all wearing helmets. Although I don't remember seeing these particular riders before, so maybe they wear helmets all year round. By the way, I don't like the looks of most Harleys, but these bikes looked pretty nice. I think they were V-rods. (And NO, I am NOT trying to start a rag on Harleys thread!)

Laura

I like my Cl-14 but I have always had a big head  :mrgreen:

The more expensive helmets will be thinner, and therefore smaller. They spend more $ developing them, and minimizing the bulk is one of their aims.

Also, the cheap helmets use only one or two molded plastic shell sizes, and then make the inside different sizes with thicker or thinner foam. Typically they mold a shell that will meet the SNELL requirements with the thin XL foam liner, and then the smaller sizes end up with a very thick foam liner to fill the large shell. The expensive helmets use composites (lighter) to mold a shell for each size, with the minimum foam for the performance level they are looking for.

The expensive helmets typically have tricker face screens, and better sealing. If two helmets have SNELL stickers (never settle for a DOT helmet, the level of the requirements is very low) the protection will be similar, although I know Arai and Shoei at least set maximum G level targets better than SNELL requirements by a considerble margin.

I've been happy with my CL-14 + a guy I know t-boned a car at 150 km/h and survived (full recovery) wearing a CL-14... I'm sold.

Try tilting your head forward a bit before twisting it... that'll maintain more of a "bullet shape" and it shouldn't twist so much.

I own an ICON Primary. I love it. It has all of the options that the $400 range ones have, and more. and it only costs around $175. They look good, and perform well.

 -Anti

Quote from: The AntibodyI own an ICON Primary. I love it. It has all of the options that the $400 range ones have, and more. and it only costs around $175. They look good, and perform well.

 -Anti

I almost bought an Icon, but ended up going with a KBC.  It's a VR-7.  Very nice helmet.    You get some of these guys who will tell you that if you don't wear an Arai or Shoei you're crazy, isn't your head worth it, blah blah blah...  basically there just being snobs.  You put my helmet on their head without telling them what brand it is and they would swear to you it was a Shoei, and that it cost at least $450.  In reality it retails for around $225 and can be found for under $100.  Don't think you have to spend half what you paid for your bike to get a good helmet.  If it's Snell, or British Standard rated then you know it's going to do it's job.  Then just find the one the fits both your head, and your wallet best.

For some of us its all about fit fit fit.  I have a pin head, so I bought a shoei XXS.  Its fits pretty good.  But now Arai makes a XXS as well and I tried one on.  WOW what a difference!  I will be buying one in the spring.  Arai wasn't making them when I bought mine (at least I didn;t find them in my research) and I find even though the shoei fits the shape of it doesn't work as well with my head.  So when I look up-- lets say to crack my neck, the back of the helmet hits my jacket.

So try on all the helmets!  Try them on with your coat and stuff.

The positives with my shoei is noise.. it is fairly quiet.  

Well I need to go pinch pennies now so I can save up for my helmet....
:lol:

Good luck in your helmet search!

update:

I got my new helmet, and I like it much better than my old. It is an Arai Quantum f, size small. It fits better. When I bought my first helmet, I was mainly going for the cheapest helmet they had, and the smalls hurt my forehead, so I got a medium. I didn't even try an Arai, because I looked at the pricetag first. I think the padding on my first helmet has condensed a bit since May, and it seems a little too loose. My new helmet feels much more snug, and it doesn't hurt my forehead. I think even if the padding condenses a little, it will still fit well. And if it doesn't, I can put thicker cheek pads in.

And also, the helmet looks MUCH smaller than my other helmet. And that's not just because this is a small, and that was a medium. I compared an Arai medium next to the HJC medium, and there was a big difference. It also feels lighter. I have better peripheral vision. The venting seems better. So far, I'm quite happy with it, although today is the first day I've used it. I wish I hadn't been trying to pinch pennies when I bought my first helmet, because I've ended up spending quite a bit more money, just because I wasn't that happy with my first purchase. Oh well. I suppose it's possible I might not have enjoyed riding that much, and in that case it would have been a waste of money to buy an expensive helmet.

And three cheers for my GS! I haven't really been able to ride it since the beginning of December, (except once in January), and it started right up today. I rode for about 25 minutes, and it was a blast. I've really missed riding.

Thanks again for all your advice.

Laura

Quote from: Lauraupdate:
...my first helmet, I was mainly going for the cheapest helmet they had...

I got my new helmet, and I like it much better than my old. It is an Arai Quantum f, size small.

It fits better.

feels much more snug, and it doesn't hurt my forehead.

looks MUCH smaller

It also feels lighter.

I have better peripheral vision.

The venting seems better.

Laura,
Glad it worked out for the better. A more comfortable helmet will allow you to ride longer, more comfortably and generally enjoy the whole experience.  Also, thanks for giving first hand experience comparing cheaper to mroe expensive helmets. I realize this is just one persons experience but it goes to prove that you do get what you pay for!

I wear an Arai Quantum f XS. I would have bought a S if left to my own devices but shop insisted the XS was better fit. Now its compressed a bit and fits like a glove.

Ride on girlfriend!

I think a lot of people buy the cheeper helmets at first because:

1.  You just shelledout for Bike
2.  Insurance
3.  Jacket
4.  etc...
5.  Etc...

Plus, what if you don't really ride the bike much?  It's not so bad having a $200 helmet collect dust than a $500 helmet.

Also, can you really, truly appreciate that new helmet if you didn't have the cheeper one before?

I think I will keep my HJC for another season, and upgrade next spring.  Unless I get a big, fat tax rebate... :mrgreen:

am i the only poor boy with G-Max helmets?

working in the motorcycle industry, i've had the chance to talk to the helmet people in the past and have the following:

1. all helmets pretty much protect the same if they meet dot requirements.
2. difference in price mainly reflects style (graphics), ventilation, comfort, lining material, and weight.
3. once you've dropped your helmet, enought to have a dent (even a tiny one) or crack, discard it!!! the protection decreases significantly.

i started with a kbc tk-7, good cheap, but has a problem with the shield coming up when i turn my head at high speed after about 1,000 miles.  talked to my kbc contact and he took it back and replaced it with a tk-9.  there is a significant difference with the shield construction and i'm still using it, but most importantly, it's comfortable!

Well... HELMET PROECTS YOUR HEAD! You cannot be save $ for that. I dont buy a cheap cheap helmet... Expensive helmet or cheap helmet... They must has reason why...  :)

Hey actually there is IMHO a difference in ideology between various helmet manufacturers. This was told to me by someone who has attended a lot of sales meetings and dealer seminars for helmet retailers.
In group 1 is Shoei, arai, agv and some others maybe hjc, kbc and others.
Group 2 is Bieffe, bell, simpson, Icon and others.
Group one believes the helmet should be soft and give and have crumple zones and under impch the shell is supposed to deform even with light force. Hence a crash where Ben Bostrom slid along the ground at speed, but didn't hit hit head hard against much in a head on type of impact... left a large rash on literally 1/2 the helmet... The helmet deformed and rubbed the ground and when he got up it went back to its original shape... much weaker of course but still the idea of crumple zones etc was built in.
Group 2 is the stronger is better group... soft impacts will not even leave a mark, hard impacts will make it deform less, but your head is cushioned by the styrofoam and other spongy material inside. The shell is hard, the liner is the cushion. I prefer the second group. I think the soft shell is bad... impacts hard enough to deform the shell and hurt your head are plenty available on the street.
OK having said that... helmets are cheap because outdated paint and graphics, and outdated sponsorships... the BR 16 I have used to be Biaggi's when he was a bieffe sponsored rider... It used to cost $200+. I got it for $99. When the RF-1000 is out the RF 900 seems out dated. Doesn't make it a bad helmet... but its marketability and there fore price drops to 50-60% just cos its not the latest and greatest. The RF 1000 may not be much better really but its the latest. Bieffe came out with the airtech model, and BR15's dropped to $89... and actually the 15 was better than the airtech... the 15 ws snell 95, the airtech was dot.
Cool.
Srinath.
Cool.
Srinath.

Srinath,
based on your Group 1/Group 2 thinking then I'd prefer the Group 1. The group 1 would be the equivalent of a modern day car with crumple zones that take/absorb  the energy of an impact prior to passing it on to you. This means that once energy from impact does reach you it has dissipated some.

Group 2 helmets would then fall under the older style cars that were more rigid construction that then passed on more of the impact energy to you, causing more injury.

Seems to me one would want a Group 1 helmet for maximum protection. Once again you and I disagree completely on another issue...what a surprise. I respect your opinion on this though, just dont agree.

The force of an impact has to be absorbed by something... better the helmet than my head... I'm with Pablo.  I want my helmet to give in an crash.  I guess I can see they idea of having the hard outer shell for better puncture-resistance, but it seems to me that in a slide or (even worse)a roll down the highway, the odds of a blunt impact far exceed the odds of the helmet being pierced... and if that happens, I doubt any helmet would be enough.

OK the soft and hard helmets will both deform... but under different loads... the force of sliding with your head just touching the road will cause the group one to flat spot, group 2 will retain its egg shape under that light load. Say you slid 20 feet into a brick wall, a group 2 helmet shell will deform under that impact. So under light impact a group 1 will give you no pain while a group 2 will give you a sore neck/back. Under a severe impact a group 2 one will still give you a sore neck/back will a group 1 will break your skull. Plastic failure but at different loads. The group 1 is mostly race track targeted... where the hardest object is another bikes tire, and a group 2 is street oriented where the hardest object is the nearest semi. They all show elastic tendency before plastic failure.
Cool.
Srinath.

I think all of the DOT/SNELL helmets will protect your head well enough in most cases, and the few "overmatch" cases are usually from the helmet getting hit so hard or in such an odd way, that failure can't really be attributed to this or that brand.
But
When I first started getting into bikes, I took the usual route and bought the cheapest helmets I could find. sub $200 Bieffes, Bells, Nolans.  I had peices of the fittings and interior fall off of the Bieffe and Bell...
Then I finally shelled out for a Shoei, the quality is night and day better.  I cling to my 4 year old RF-R because it is still a better helmet than any new HJC etc. one I've tried.

For race helmets though, I buy the top of the line, but from several years ago, AGV or Shoei (Ariis hold their value).   The helmets are good quality but usually cheap enough tha I won't cry after dragging it across the pavement, which I used to do to frequently...

Quote from: Laura....At highway speeds, if I turn my head the slightest bit, my head gets jerked back. My helmet seems to act as a sail unless my head is in exactly the right position. Are the higher priced helmets more aerodynamic?

I have 2 Shoei XSPII helmets. It was their top of the line a couple of years ago before the X-11. My helmet will get caught by the wind a little when I turn it sideways. Turning a just little bit doesn't bother me.

Quote...and realized the my head looks GIGANTIC in this helmet. Imagine a stick person with a big circle as a head.

I don't have a problem with my helmet size.... :dunno:



:mrgreen:

/\---BEST PICTURE EVER!!!
I wish it was my avatar.

Quote from: Rich500I wish it was my avatar.

Good idea!  How many vote for dgyver to change his avatar?



PS - Hilarious!  Thanks for the belly laugh.

EDIT: Changed link from sisna.com to bbburma.net

I think I am gonna have to have an avatar talk with dgyver on Sunday when we meet for our first ride together........

Andy

Dgyver, great picture!  :lol:

Laura

There is 'some' degree of policing by DOT on helmets but it's WAY after the fact. NHTSA/DOT etc. regularly post blacklists. I won't touch a helmet that isn't SNELL. A helmet is 1) protection 2) visibility. brightly colored helmets bobbing around in traffic are far more visible than your flashy jacket. Colors that work though are yellow, white, red, and neon-green. Racerboy looks often put dark silver or black at the back half of the helmet which considerably reduces the visibility.

If you're still stuck on an RF-R you seriously need to get an RF800 or better. The -R is such a big step back. I have a HJC CL-10 as my backup lid. The HJC's as a rule have very large exteriors even on a M. The AC-10/11 might be better in that regard but I don't forsee myself ever NOT buying a Shoei.

Srinath et. al. the external cover is a means of distributing the shock force. It's role as "cushion" is about nil. The styrofoam is what slows the brain down as gently as it can. A readily collapsable external shell (relatively speaking) is simply a strategy by which to lessen the overall force so eg. the styro doesn't have to work so hard.

The whole "I bought a bike, jacket, assessories so I'm helmet poor" is the kind of 'logic' that drives us instructors up the wall and across the ceiling. If you don't have the $600 for full safety gear (head to toe) then you have no business owning a bike. Or find one a suitable junker that allows you to properly spend on good gear, FIRST. My 1st bike and set of gear cost the same: $1500 each (before I realized the opportunies for discounts etc).

OMG that pic is GREAT!  But I think that is how my helmet looks on me!   :o   Naturally!   :?   Hence another reason to go with the Arai.   :mrgreen:    LOL

I was real happy with my HJC symax flip face helmet the past couple years, works great with eyeglasses.  But after my little mishap last summer, I deciced to try a full face again.  No more open face types for me.  A little bit of tarmac tumbling can get ya thinking about a better helmet.  

Just bought a new Shoei RF1000 FF helmet and seems great so far.  It's a very good fit after reducing the cheek pad thickness a bit to accomodate my chubby cheeks.   :)  It's my 6th helmet in 20 years and I have bought all of them in person over the counter, never by mail order.

I tried on a XL and it seemed like a good fit for me because of the tight cheek pads, but when I removed the snap in pads it was too loose around my head.  Would have been using a helmet that was too large if I hadn't spent some time trying them on at the store.  The smaller size L seemed much too tight in the store till I removed the pads and it was then a perfect fit on my head.  Took the size L home and reduced the thickness of the pads and it feels perfect now.

:thumb:

some 80% or more of riders have helmets that are 1 or 2 sizes too big. GSJack's post is great to illustrate this. Cheek pads break in. If you don't feel like you've got fish face or you can't chew without seriously biting your cheeks with the lid on, the helmet is too big (and/or at least the cheek pads are not doing anything useful).

I ride with an ARAI Signet/GT.  I too have the oval shaped head.  I am very pleased with the helmet.  I find that it fits very well, however the one big asterisk on all ARAI helmets is the road noise.  I also have a Shoei and it is much quieter, but not as comfortable.

ASLAM.