Since I didnt get some help since I updated my project thread, i'll post here in hopes of getting some insight before I wake up from working all night.
1994 bike
1989 engine.
Checked the Wiki and seen no changes in the carbs for my 94s im using on the 89 engine.
Idles and Chokes 100% fine.
But when I open the throttle, it will rev up a bit then bog and die.
Opening the throttle normally or faster, it bogs and dies quickly.
If I open it up slowly, rpms will raise and then bog and die.
if I let off the throttle before it dies, it returns to normal idle.
Fuel lines are fine. (watched fuel flow through them for a bit)
gas tank cap was open and didnt help.
spark plugs are not wet and look perfectly fine.
I figure a few possibilities.
1. getting the carbs on the engine side boots was VERY hard!
So it might be partially blocked.
got 2 extra sets of booties, so I will be swapping them out with the almost brand new pair I bought last year.
2. carbs need a cleaning (doubtful!) or when I had them upside down putting the cables on, the floats got stuck.
3. throttle cable adjustment.
4. the semi loose exhaust valves.
wanted looser then .04 so I went with the next size down I had which took the one which was the loosest to .013 or .13 whatever it is.
I forget what the other one was, but not as loose.
read that shouldnt be a problem.
and I will check the valves last.
anyone think of anything else im missing?
thanks
(edit)
and I didnt check the float level.
I've done that ALOT already before this engine and have no reason to suspect anything is off unless the floats got stuck when I had the carbs upside down attaching cables.
those I will check, but im 100% certain the float lvl if the internals are fine is all ok.
i'll check anyways but I forgot to when I got done with workin on it yesterday
Blocked pilot - dude turning them upside down lets gravity send the dirt @ the bottom of the float bowl into the top ... you have classic signs of blocked pilot, but stuck floats - well you smell gas ? If so yea tap the float with a screwdriver handle.
Cool.
Buddha.
thanks.
didnt smell gas at all.
sorry I forgot to mention that even tho I made extra observation if there was any.
I'll just take them off since im changing the boots anyways and give them a quick cleaning.
at this point, something like this is nothin in comparison to what I've had to do so far.
so I dont mind.
kk off to bed now, hopefully that works out.
just incase it doesnt, anymore suggestions are appreciated.
actually wait..
wouldnt a blocked "Pilot" jet affect idle and choke?
ur the expert but I assume it sounds more like the main jets.
doesnt matter tho as im going to clean them all.
oh yeah, no backfiring either.
(edit)
always forget something .... ><
and I wouldnt of turned them upside down if they were ran enough to get Really dirty.
I havnt ran the bike enough to "Think" enough crap would get in to cause any issues.
if thought there was, I wouldnt have.
but still might have been enough crap in the tank to cause it
just saying, I didnt do that carelessly. (flip em)
I'm no expert on engine diagnosis, but this sounds similar to when i first started my parts bike. Any heavy throttle would bog and kill the engine. I changed the plugs/coils and was able to get it revving fine. Ran well enough to ride around the neighborhood a few times with no problems. Before the swap i could pull my left wire and it would kill the engine. I did have lots of popping/backfires though
Have you tried pulling each wire off while idling to see if its firing on both cylinders properly?
Check float level......too low and it would cause this issue, starving for fuel when you crack the throttle.
You said gas is flowing, but you did not specify if you saw it flowing from the tank to the petcock, or from the petcock to the carbs?
my 05 just started doing this also. just rebuilt the engine. replaced crankshaft and bearings, piston rod, gaskets, etc. so much for getting a cheap used one huh? anyhow i been riding it about 500 miles, following the manual for running in. the only thing i have changed recently was the tension on the throttle, it was a bit sloppy and loose. well now it is bogging down when i try running it without choke. it idles fine, right around 1.2k rpm. i tried readjusting the throttle back where it was before but that didn't correct it. also i noticed that before this happened, the tachometer was real jumpy above 4 to 5k rpms. any suggestions on what to try?
Quote from: dynasty17 on March 27, 2012, 01:09:47 PM
my 05 just started doing this also. just rebuilt the engine. replaced crankshaft and bearings, piston rod, gaskets, etc. so much for getting a cheap used one huh? anyhow i been riding it about 500 miles, following the manual for running in. the only thing i have changed recently was the tension on the throttle, it was a bit sloppy and loose. well now it is bogging down when i try running it without choke. it idles fine, right around 1.2k rpm. i tried readjusting the throttle back where it was before but that didn't correct it. also i noticed that before this happened, the tachometer was real jumpy above 4 to 5k rpms. any suggestions on what to try?
Jumpy tachometer and now it won't run? Sounds like an electrical issue to me. You might've had a short somewhere relating to ignition. I doubt the throttle cable has anything to do with it, honestly.
found the problem but yet to see if its corrected.
the left side top cover of the carbs got partially cracked in a small area.
since I do not have another one.
I put some liquid cement on it to seal it.
Now I am waiting for it to fully dry in the sun and then see if that clears up all issues.
since obviously it was an air leak.
(edit)
and no I do not plan to leave it like that.
I plan to buy another one as soon as I got the $$. (most likely next Fri)
or sooner if the salvage yard will part with one this weekend.
Quote from: Kijona on March 27, 2012, 01:31:42 PM
Quote from: dynasty17 on March 27, 2012, 01:09:47 PM
my 05 just started doing this also. just rebuilt the engine. replaced crankshaft and bearings, piston rod, gaskets, etc. so much for getting a cheap used one huh? anyhow i been riding it about 500 miles, following the manual for running in. the only thing i have changed recently was the tension on the throttle, it was a bit sloppy and loose. well now it is bogging down when i try running it without choke. it idles fine, right around 1.2k rpm. i tried readjusting the throttle back where it was before but that didn't correct it. also i noticed that before this happened, the tachometer was real jumpy above 4 to 5k rpms. any suggestions on what to try?
Jumpy tachometer and now it won't run? Sounds like an electrical issue to me. You might've had a short somewhere relating to ignition. I doubt the throttle cable has anything to do with it, honestly.
oh it runs, just very poorly in low RPMs. no problems if kept above 3k. not sure what it could be honestly. i was thinking a fuel/air ratio problem.
Quote from: dynasty17 on March 27, 2012, 02:10:04 PM
Quote from: Kijona on March 27, 2012, 01:31:42 PM
Quote from: dynasty17 on March 27, 2012, 01:09:47 PM
my 05 just started doing this also. just rebuilt the engine. replaced crankshaft and bearings, piston rod, gaskets, etc. so much for getting a cheap used one huh? anyhow i been riding it about 500 miles, following the manual for running in. the only thing i have changed recently was the tension on the throttle, it was a bit sloppy and loose. well now it is bogging down when i try running it without choke. it idles fine, right around 1.2k rpm. i tried readjusting the throttle back where it was before but that didn't correct it. also i noticed that before this happened, the tachometer was real jumpy above 4 to 5k rpms. any suggestions on what to try?
Jumpy tachometer and now it won't run? Sounds like an electrical issue to me. You might've had a short somewhere relating to ignition. I doubt the throttle cable has anything to do with it, honestly.
oh it runs, just very poorly in low RPMs. no problems if kept above 3k. not sure what it could be honestly. i was thinking a fuel/air ratio problem.
Since the tachometer on the newer bikes is electronic...jumpiness would indicate an electrical problem. That is, unless the motor seems to jumping with the tachometer.
yeah I'll have to check that out. any idea on the bogging out when i throttle? I'm pretty new to motorcycles so all I've checked so far were the plugs and throttle cable. working on finding time to check out the carb. :2guns: can't it just fix itself?
Quote from: dynasty17 on March 27, 2012, 02:25:53 PM
yeah I'll have to check that out. any idea on the bogging out when i throttle? I'm pretty new to motorcycles so all I've checked so far were the plugs and throttle cable. working on finding time to check out the carb. :2guns: can't it just fix itself?
Heh, no they rarely fix themselves.
Sorry, I should've been more clear. The bogging and stuff could be caused by an issue with the ignition system and the jumpy tachometer could be an indication of that problem.
Dynasty, please start another thread for your bike - it gets kind of confusing.
Tomb- Are your needles adjusted at all? If it's seems to be a constant problem, then it sounds to me like a fuel starvation problem. Clogged carb vents, tank vents, etc. But if it's only when you get on the throttle quickly, then it could be your needles are too high.
I'm curious if it's too much gas or not enough........
Well I fully cleaned the carbs.
Put them back on and went around the block.
acted fine but when I really opened it up, it bogged down.
one culprit tho, the one cam shaft half moon thingy was partially loose. (my fault)
took the cover off and rechecked the valves.
one intake was tight and other was loose.
adjusted it all and put it back together.
now it doesnt wanna start... hahaha
gotta take it apart again tomorrow... Oye! come on!
(edit)
as far as I know, the needles are stock.
and the float lvl is perfect.
I honestly dont think its a carb problem at this point now.
except maybe a throttle cable adjustment again.
the carbs ran perfectly fine in the other engine with no alterations since then.
and now they are even cleaner, even tho they were clean to begin with and the floats were fine when I took the covers off.
pretty sure right now its something with the valves.
im going to go over them Very thoroughly tomorrow morning as it was getting dark out and after I redid the intake valves, I simply put it back together and tried to start it.. which it wouldnt.
it would start to if I held the start button in but wouldnt stay going.
giving it gas or choke didnt help and with those it wouldnt do anything at all but crank.
and I changed the engine side booties, so thats no longer an issue.
time to get ready for work tho.
we'll see how it goes tomorrow
and here we go again!
going to just redo the valve clearance all back to what they were when I first checked them (.04)
Well the ones above .08 anyways.
I just hope the valves arent bent as they were in the head cbr sent me when it wouldnt start like this is doing now.
but, I just dont know anymore....
Getting so dang fed up.
So much hard work (more then I've ever done before) with absolutely No fruit to bear. (to hell with the knowledge at this point!)
Its not like im doing all this for a selfish or materialistic reason.
Doing it because I like to work and ride, it makes me happy.
So all that hard work pays off, I gotta say... its a Total Load of Garbage! haha
yes sry my positive attitude has left the building right now. haha
and now to head out to work on it.
but my luck it will start raining soon hahaha
I don't think this is a mechanical issue. Sounds more electrical to me. Take the left side cover off and check the connections around the ignitor. make sure all the connections are clean and shiny.of there is any dull corrosion at all take CO contact cleaner and a brush to them then finish the job with some dielectric grease (tune up grease). One thing I noticed when I first got my bike is the connections were never treated from the factory with anything to keep them from corroding. And as I found out the ignition is very sensitive to oxidation. This will cause all sorts of weird running issues. .04 difference in valve settings Will not stop an engine from running, may not run well but it will run.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Manaenrc,......Goats? Starretts? I can't rememember which is which,...either way,...noooooo-ooooooh!
Quote from: Tombstones81 on March 28, 2012, 06:53:43 AM
and here we go again!
going to just redo the valve clearance all back to what they were when I first checked them (.04)
Well the ones above .08 anyways.
I just hope the valves arent bent as they were in the head cbr sent me when it wouldnt start like this is doing now.
but, I just dont know anymore....
Getting so dang fed up.
So much hard work (more then I've ever done before) with absolutely No fruit to bear. (to hell with the knowledge at this point!)
Its not like im doing all this for a selfish or materialistic reason.
Doing it because I like to work and ride, it makes me happy.
So all that hard work pays off, I gotta say... its a Total Load of Garbage! haha
yes sry my positive attitude has left the building right now. haha
and now to head out to work on it.
but my luck it will start raining soon hahaha
Just to check, are you talking about milimeters, right?
yes mm.
and JUST got done redoing the valve clearances again.
left exhaust was too loose, .13mm even tho that might be good, I still took it down to .07mm.
right one was tight and took it to .07mm.
right intake is at .06 or .07mm
and the left is at .08mm (best I can get it, any other shim I have makes it either WAY too loose, or too tight)
and one other thing.
cranked it a bit again before I started monkeying with it.
same deal.
but also that I forgot to mention.
when I took the carbs off, exhaust smoke was coming out of the intake side.
intake valves are sealing properly.
and I am hoping that was only because of the valve clearance was off.
didnt check the exhaust valves by looking down the front pipes as I didnt take the exhaust off yet Again yet!
if it doesnt wanna start when it stops raining, I will do that next.
Just pray nothing is wrong with the exhaust valves, I've had Enough of playing with the top end of these engines!
I should have just left them all at .04mm when I initially checked them! hahaha
should be a quick passing storm.
so i'll be going out to see if that did it as soon as it passes.
also, if the exhaust valves are fine if I have to look down the front of the engine.
then I am not touching the top end Again!
timing is right, valve clearance is right, and intake valves are ok.
if it doesnt pan out now and the exhaust valves are fine, then I will start looking elsewhere.
but the carbs are not an issue either now.
(edit)
and goats?
if that is simply a parts swap, then I am not worried in the slightest.
as my other engine im certain is in fine running condition.. minus the dang leaks!
so I can take whatever off of that Wench!
(edit)
storm is gone as quick as it started.
I dont play games with any storm with lightning!!
Scared crapless of it!
short version: 15 yrs old fishing and preparing to drink with buddies.
starts to drizzle, we figure to wait it out under a tarp.
Starts to REALLY storm!
Giant bolt of lightning Smashes into the water no more then 10 yards away from us.
didnt say a word, just got up and RANNNN!
was one of the nastiest storms of that summer too.
kk pants back on and out I go again.
No luck.....
SOME RUNNING ENGINE!
It started a few times, went around the block ONCE and now what?.....
top ends got a ticking noise now.
got 2 videos incoming.
i am DONE troubleshooting myself.
I am going to video everything and ask for help.
otherwise, F the POS bike!
as im seriously about to go OFF!
kk copied to the computer and going to upload them now and post them as soon as they are done.
but WARNING!
I am using "some" vulgar language but not as much as I do off camera.
(edit)
oh yeah.
exhaust valves look perfectly fine.
while that uploads (going to take like 30 mins ><) im going to go out and do a compression test.
only 60 PSI on both sides with the exhaust totally off.
not sure if that matters as I forgot I had it off when I went out...
(edit)
heres the 2nd one after I took it out to my car as the battery was getting low.
http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b165/Chronno1201/?action=view¤t=100_0066.mp4
ok, thats it.
if suggestions or whatever dont pinpoint a problem and it doesnt get fixed VERY SOON!
I AM taking up a previous offer of around $2000 if it was serious.
and just going to give him every single piece I have for this wretched thing!
then just go buy something that Works and not touch a thing on it.
heres the first video.
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=3568366689041
if nobody can make sense of it, then its probably going to be sold if that offer was serious.
Goats...? and Starrets...? Wah :dunno_black:
Are you recomending he sell his bike and resort to a goat pulled carriage ? :D
That's funny, I am looking at my starret right now since I just got done mic'ing a rear rotor that I got on ebay. Seller said 5.75mm and my gauge has a max of 5.64mm I'm not very happy....
Start with the basics again.
Run a compression test, that will show any valve or ring problems.
Check your spark is it hot and blue and sparking when it is supposed to. electrical problems will usually cause weak and intermittent spark. When I had a connection issue it was a weaker blue spark. But most importantly the ignitor was firing about 3 or 4 times per stroke. Try to watch the spark and listen to the air blowing from the plug holes the spark should happen on a compression stroke (as the air is blowing). If it not sparking properly it will run like poop and back fire and smoke will come out of the valves because the spark is going off when the valves are open. A weak connection at the ignitor will cause this because it thinks the pulse generator is sending a signal to spark more then it is.
Are you sure your carbs are clean and dialed in. The passages in these carbs are small and unless you completely disassemble the carb your not going to be able to tell if everything is open. Problem areas are the vacuum ports on the front of the carb for the main and pilot system. Are your floats set properly ? do they leak down? Use the clear tube method to check float level while they are in the bike to make sure they are OK
Are you sure you are getting the engine set to TDC when setting the valves?
Is you cam chain tension ok? maybe it jumped a tooth if too loose <shrug>
It's always tough to diagnose thing like this when you cannot hear and touch the patient. Most important don't get frustrated. It's an engine, they are all simple. As long as theu have compression, spark (at the right time), and fuel (in the right mixture) they will run.
I'm not sure how much advice you want right now considering there is a limit to how much one man can take. I understand where you are coming from there. It's been a long road for me too, and I'm still not there yet. It's like that bike is holding it out there on a string taunting you. Having a working motorcycle doesn't make or break you as a man. I have to give myself these kind of pep talks a lot when I screw things up.
Sometimes it's not about working hard, but just having all of the experience to know all those little things that can and will go wrong. There are plenty of them, and personally it's a little demeaning to call working on an engine as simple as the typical compression, fuel, spark, although that's never a bad reminder.
There are so many things that can go wrong, so you have to take things slowly, step-by-step, with a good manual and the right tools! If you don't have a proper torque wrench, with the right ranges you need for the engine, don't even start. That's a lesson almost all of us learn one way or another (most the hard way).
Take things step by step and you can diagnose this. Start with the compression test. You have to know whether the valves and piston rings are ok, otherwise you are going nowhere fast. Look at the quality of the spark and the timing as someone suggested. If you have both of these things, move on to the carbs. Make yourself a small temporary tank so you don't have to take it on and off everytime.
You are more of a man for perservering and learned through this than you ever will be just for having a working motorcycle. You've put a ton of blood, sweat, and maybe tears in this bike. If push comes to shove, and you can't stomach selling it, maybe you could consider saving up to pay someone who has a ton of experience and resources to work on getting it running for you? There is no shame is saying enough is enough for your own mental health. We are all pulling for you here Tomb.
Well said Bomb! (applause)
(http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/applause.gif)
hahaha!
well, I did calm down a bit.
still undecided but if the problems have anything to do with the engine (upper end)
then I will probably just swap parts out from the old one.
Pistons if new motor looks worse, entire head since I KNOW its 100%! etc etc
(edit)
and I did a compression test.
went out to take one and forgot I had my exhaust off, but did it anyways.
was only 60 PSI on both sides.
not sure if the exhaust being off has a big role to play in those numbers tho.
Guess I misclicked and posted instead of editing lol
did you open the throttle while cranking the engine?
if so, and you still have 60psi well I think you found your problem.
Quote from: Manaenrc on March 28, 2012, 04:12:13 PM
did you open the throttle while cranking the engine?
if so, and you still have 60psi well I think you found your problem.
Also, the engine must be warmed up first...
Quote from: piresito on March 29, 2012, 06:36:27 AM
Quote from: Manaenrc on March 28, 2012, 04:12:13 PM
did you open the throttle while cranking the engine?
if so, and you still have 60psi well I think you found your problem.
Also, the engine must be warmed up first...
It's a little hard to get the engine warmed up if it doesn't start. I believe that 60 psi is low cold or hot.
This may have been said, but:
Valve checks should be done cold, and compression tests should be done warm.
That video made me sad. :(
Quote from: Funderb on March 29, 2012, 08:36:11 AM
This may have been said, but:
Valve checks should be done cold, and compression tests should be done warm.
That video made me sad. :(
valves were checked and done when cold.
compression test tho yes was done cold.
didnt know it should be warm, as I've watched videos of non running engines have tests done on them with high numbered results.
and just incase its something simple.
going to crank it spraying it with carb cleaner and see if anything happens.
be funny if it was just a leak....
(edit)
nope no difference.
and why did the video make u sad? haha
if anything I was being careless with, at this point in time I simply do not care.
I had similar symptoms and it turned out that my petcock was going bad.
Quote from: ezcleen on March 29, 2012, 09:17:09 AM
I had similar symptoms and it turned out that my petcock was going bad.
fuel is flowing nicely through it.
and its also not the stock petcock, already had one go on me.
thanks for the input tho
(edit)
and im still going to troubleshoot the bike until its possibly sold (if it even will be)
as the second I start thinking it will def be sold and strart truly looking and planning on getting something else is when it all falls through.
so im just going to continue as if I dont have a current offer on it.
I've allways seen people advertising doing compression check with engine warm only. Although, due to this thread I've read about it in the net and afterall it shouldn't produce much difference. Not the kind of diference that would give those low numbers. I've read somthing about wet compression test, something about putting some oil in the cylinder before doing the test, and compare it to the "dry" results, if theres a big difference, theres a big problem.
Anyway, I would sell it that money, wouldn't even think twice!
Quote from: piresito on March 29, 2012, 10:19:59 AM
I've allways seen people advertising doing compression check with engine warm only. Although, due to this thread I've read about it in the net and afterall it shouldn't produce much difference. Not the kind of diference that would give those low numbers. I've read somthing about wet compression test, something about putting some oil in the cylinder before doing the test, and compare it to the "dry" results, if theres a big difference, theres a big problem.
Anyway, I would sell it that money, wouldn't even think twice!
yeah, i'll be putting the exhaust back on soon and try that.
so many problems and headaches I totally forgot to do that.
I just dont know anymore....
It started fine before.
Choked and idled fine.
but would bog and stall with throttle.
cleaned the carbs and adjusted the throttle cable.
took it around the block and it acted fine until I opened her up and she would bog a bit as if the engine was choking (not the choke, but choking)
noticed some vibrations and noise around the exhaust valve.
got back and noticed I did not tighten the right side exhaust camshaft half mood thingy down all the way.
tightened that up and when it was cool, did another valve clearance check.
which were oddly off again.
pretty much got all the clearances good.
and now it wont start at all.
im totally lost now as to what could be the cause.
valves look and are moving fine.
but I also did have this problem with the head cbr sent me, which had a bent intake valve.
but that one I could clearly see it wasnt seating.
these look fine.
at this point I want to take the head off and inspect the valves from there and down into the cylinders.
but you all know how that goes for me!!
afraid of more leaks! hahaha
i'll just do the compression test with the exhaust on and a lil bit of oil down the cylinders.
I would pull the head but im waiting for the person that wants to buy it to msg me back.
which probably wont be until 5:30 as hes at work.
(edit)
i'll also take the air filter off and spray carb cleaner into the intake of the carbs.
as I did when cbrs head had a bent valve.
because I recall how it acted then (after a few cranks it would backfire)
so if it does that, I know its a valve issue.
kk time to change into dirty pants and get filthy again! haha
(edit again)
sorry im COnstantly reading on any problems with GS500s and getting myself new ideas. (love and hate that!)
carbs are fine, 130 mains and 40 pilots with a K&N open air filter and Cobra slipon.
air/fuel screws are at 3 out.
I think im going to monkey with those a little bit.
after the bike starting before and then the ride around the block.
the plugs were dark (not black) and not wet.
might be spot on but it wouldnt hurt to mess with that a bit and see if theres any results.
kk took the air filter off and sprayed some carb cleaner in them while cranking the motor with the throttle open.
it kicked within the first 5 seconds as if it was going to start.
after that, just crank crank crank.
no backfires out of the exhuast like another head that had a bent intake valve.
didnt do a compression test with oil down the plug holes because I noticed the fuel looked a little foul.
theres some Light surface rust in the tank.
and noticed the fuel in the lines looked a little cloudy.
wasnt much fuel left in the tank ( down to res )
So I simply drained the carbs, tried carb cleaner again when the floats were empty and same deal.
kicked as if it was going to start within 5 secs and then nothin but cranks.
drained as much fuel out of the tank as I can for now.
going to fill it up with fresh gas on Friday and see if that helps.
which would be Hilarious if it was only fouled gas!!
but, does the carb cleaner spray sound as it should??
update.
i'll know Saturday if its going to be sold or not. :thumb:
(edit)
oops wrong thread, oh well.
Hey...what's going on with your cam chain tensioner?
I know you said you checked the valves and everything but what it honestly sounds like is the valves are not staying open long enough to allow the proper fuel/air mixture to enter OR they're staying open too long causing lack of compression. The fact that you said something about smoke coming out of the intake would lead me to believe that as well.
Are you absolutely, positively, 100% sure the cams are in the correct position? If the chain jumped or if it were off by one notch it would cause this kind of an issue.
Believe me brother, I feel your pain.
Oh, and...I remember you said something about it running fine and then as soon as you opened it up it started acting like this...
Maybe the chain jumped...it's worth looking at, maybe?
thanks.
the timing chain was set correctly when I put it back together and the tensioner was fine.
but who knows whats happened since I put the cover on.
since then tho, it hasnt wanted to start.
I think I've already checked to make sure the timing was correct yesterday.
but i'll check again tomorrow if I get to it.
might have messed something up when the cam shaft half moon thingy was loose on one side (exhaust side) when I rode it around the block.
hopefully if it did, that its totally in the upper end as I know my previous engines upper end is 100%
Have you checked for consistant spark? Put a few drops of oil down the cylinder bores and re check compression. That would give you a huge indication of what could be going on. No change in compression = valves. increase would be rings. I wish you were closer buddy. I love tinkering with engines, I'd have it going in a day or two. One other thing to check. Your ground. It's a wire, black, white stripe, it could cause the same effect. I've had it happen.
Woops my post was for an other thread.
I have a RedMax EBZ8001 backpack blower that exhibited similar issues. Granted, it's a 2-stroke.
Would NOT start no matter what I did to it. I eventually tried pouring some motor oil (whatever was laying around) in the spark plug hole and it started RIGHT up. Ran like brand new. If it sits for any length of time, though, it acts up again.
Weird, right? I was going to suggest trying some motor oil in the cylinders to see if it would make it start up.
Quote from: Kijona on March 29, 2012, 09:47:07 PM
I have a RedMax EBZ8001 backpack blower that exhibited similar issues. Granted, it's a 2-stroke.
Would NOT start no matter what I did to it. I eventually tried pouring some motor oil (whatever was laying around) in the spark plug hole and it started RIGHT up. Ran like brand new. If it sits for any length of time, though, it acts up again.
Weird, right? I was going to suggest trying some motor oil in the cylinders to see if it would make it start up.
2 strokes can do this because the rings get carbon-ed up. The oil you put down the cylinder broke them loose and they started to seal again. This is not an inherent problem with 4 stroke engines unless your valve seals are so bad your burning lots of oil.
Compression test can be done on a cold cylinder, and your results should show that you are on the lower end of the service limits. When warmed up you should be on the upper end of the readings.
Definitely try to put some motor oil in the plug hole (about 2 tablespoons), crank it a few times to distribute then redo the compression test. As stated if the numbers improve you need to rebuild the top end, if not, it's your valves.
let us know the results.
Quote from: Manaenrc on March 30, 2012, 05:46:03 AM
Compression test can be done on a cold cylinder, and your results should show that you are on the lower end of the service limits. When warmed up you should be on the upper end of the readings.
My manual said 114 psi was the low end of serviceable, and only if the other cylinder is 142 psi or above with a maximum 28 psi difference between cylinders. These are numbers for a warm compression test.
Tomb is becoming a gs engine guru by trial and error, sweat, tears and blood. I feel sorry for ya buddy.
hahaha its all good.
I am fairly confident 1 of 2 options will pan out.
1. I hear good news on Saturday and get $2K for this sucker. (already have an SV650 picked out if its still there and worth it)
2. If problems continue to point to the top end, swap over every single better part from the old engine into a freshly clean and honed top end.
No gas hooked up right now, but I will go out and do another compression test with oil down the plug holes.
Not worried about that as I know ALL the internals and head on the old engine are 100%.
So I can swap if I keep it and have it going.
and I will be getting some fresh gas later on today as the tank was pretty low and it looked a little cloudy from a little bit of surface rust.
and see how that goes.
kk out I go.
results in a min.
results are in.
and sorry drop, no tears for anything that isnt flesh :icon_mrgreen:
everything else tho! hahaha
kk right side about 85 PSI now vs 60ish before.
left side 90 PSI vs 60ish before.
with about 3/4 an oil cap full of oil down the plug holes.
I had those numbers on a freshly clean, honed, and rebuilt top end with the old engine prior to it starting tho.
and that was running GREAT!... minus the dang oil leak!!
so...
only going to try some fresh gas next and if that doesnt do it.
then im taking the head off and inspect the valves and then look down into the cylinders.
anything appearing to be off in the Slightest will be replaced with working parts from the other motor.
if it doesnt sell.
and im actually half and half on that now that I've had a few days to rest, relax, and unwind.
if it sells, great.
if not, it wont bother me in the slightest.
at least not until I do all the work I plan and have more problems. hahaha
Sounds pretty low. And the oil made a big difference in pressure. I'm willing to bet rings are worn.
Quote from: dropitlow88 on March 30, 2012, 08:20:39 AM
Sounds pretty low. And the oil made a big difference in pressure. I'm willing to bet rings are worn.
yeah but I dont think it wouldnt start because of those numbers.
because as I said, I had those low numbers on my old engine when I redid everything prior to starting it for the first time.
I guess when I get some fresh gas later today, i'll put some oil down the holes again and see if it starts up finally.
im fairly confident if I put my old head on it, that it will be Golden.
as this problem didnt start until I messed with the valve clearances.
tho I didnt do anything wrong except for forgetting to fully tighten down the one cam shaft half moon thing.
UGH!
now im getting back into the mood to work on it!
but I just cant pass up that offer, so I will be patient until tomorrow.
kk time for a nap after workin all night
UGHHHHHHH :flipoff: :2guns: :mad:
Predicament now!!!! :2guns: :mad:
Got it started!
I honestly dont know HOW I did it.... but I had the intake valves at .013mm each.
Maybe I mixed the shims up between them... hahahaha
Put the correct shims in and then it took me like 4 friggin tries to get the timing and cams set right! haha
front one kept poppin one link when I went to the back one because I didnt pull enough slack from the front. haha
Then I forgot to let the tensioner loose when I cranked it by hand, so it jumped a few... haha UGH was I mad!
Idle still hangs a bit.
and sometimes I need to give it a little more throttle from a start to keep it from stalling.
Also some slight popping out of the exhaust with no slip on yet.
took it around the block and REALLY opened her up after letting it warm up properly.
no complaints on the power again.
and didnt bog down when I gave it gas this time.
but it just doesnt "Sound" right.
About to go out and make a quick video of it running.
but I would GREATLY appreciate it if anyone who knows what to listen for watches the video ASAP after I upload it.
as I wanna know if anything is wrong, what to do to fix it...
and then the Predicament of, if I really wanna sell it now!
(still leaning towards yes, but if its 100% now... thats ALOT to think about)
aka: my hard work being finished and able to be ridden is worth more then $$$$
kk out i go to make the video
ugh stupid thing!
meant to edit, not reply!!
So, if I understand right, you found valves too tight causing poor sealing and resulting low compression. Not clear to me but also possibly found cams slightly out of phase (chain skipped a tooth?)
Congratulations on sticking it out and finding the problem(s)! Next let's get that thing tuned up. For 'not sounding right' be sure to put fresh crush washers on the exhaust pipe at the head...an exhaust leak can cause the hanging idle and different noise you hear.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk
hopefully it is just the exhaust thats sounding off and causing the hanging idle.
video taken!
took one but when I initially started it up again it sounded good.
minus 2 little pops out of the exhaust with no slip on.
then tried to ride with it around my wrist and it banged around too much so I stopped the video where half of it was me adjusting the camera. haha
then started another one with it safely wrapped around my wrist and went around the block.
as for the view, got no idea but should have gotten pretty good sound.
uploading now
(edit)
nah, the intake valves were too loose at .013mm instead of between .03mm and .08mm
Pretty sure I simply mixed the shims up between the 2.
kk video is uploading now
(edit)
stupid photobucket!
gave me an error.
uploading it to facebook now.
meanwhile, back outside to put the gimbel headlight cowl together. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
(edit)
kk heres the video.
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=3581821105393
sounds like it could be an exhaust leak, hard to tell, your camera muffles alot of the mechanical noise, it sounds alot like mine riding down the road. kind of a sputtering at low throttle inputs at 3-4k rpms. I'd like to hear the input of others around here
The idle is hanging because it is running lean on the idle. Get your exhaust back on there and it will probably settle down. The lack of restriction will cause a major lean condition. If you are going to put a better flowing muffler on there you may need to go larger on the pilot jet. I'm actually surprised it isn't popping more on deceleration.
It's hard to hear the engine noises with the loud exhaust since your phone will reduce the volume to the loudest noise which is your exhaust. But I couldn't hear anything that sounded awful.
How in Gods name are you holding the phone and shifting at the same time LOL
HAHAHAHHA
its my digital camera.
I have the carry cord wrapped around my wrist twice.
otherwise it bounced around TOO much.
and just got done putting it together and the pipe on.
its actually poppin more now.
might even up when I take it for a ride if it doesnt rain in a few mins.
and I have 40 pilots so I should be good.
(edit)
just took it for a ride down the main road (wanted to go around town and give it a good run)
but a mile or just less it started acting like it was fuel starved.
then it stalled and wouldnt start otw back and when I would crank it, would just backfire.
restarted after I pushed it about 150 yards. lol