GStwin.com GS500 Message Forum

I'm starting to look for a second car, and my top choices are a FB(79-85) RX-7 or a Miata, probably NA, but I would consider an early NB if I could find it cheap enough.  I would be using it as a sunny day driver and autocross car about once a month.  I'm hoping to spend in the $2-4k range.

Logic says miata is the way to go.  Many more cars available, 'traditional' piston engine, more parts available.  These things play into my thoughts as a logical person, but I don't want this choice to be entirely logical.  I like the fact that it's a convertible (I wouldn't consider an RX-7 'vert.)  But miata's are so commonplace.  I do like the NB(99-05) a little better style wise, but NA's(90-07) are more in my price range.  Once I'm driving it though, I probably won't care about what it looks like or how commonplace it is.

The RX-7 is a little quirkier, and I like that about it.  This is a second car after all.  At first I liked the FC(86-91), but after looking at a lot more pictures, I decided I like the first generation better.  The FB's are lighter too.  I don't know if the Wankel is really any less reliable than a piston engine, but it sure scares people away.  I've been reading up on rx7club, so I know they need to be run regularly and they need high revs regularly.  As long as you're doing these, the rotary nuts say they they should be pretty reliable.  I rode in one last weekend which was a project car that did not have a/c and the pwr window switches were mia, so the 'practicality' of having a convertible on a summer car is at the forefront of my mind at the moment.

I really think I will be happy with either.  Both are known to be great handling cars. A normally operating RX-7 will have windows that roll down, or maybe even a/c, but it's still not a convertible.  And a miata is a great practical sports car, but it's kind of generic.

Any thoughts or comments?

FB RX-7
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/12/gslse7_opt.jpg)

ive got an 88 vert sans engine. ( it went to hell and back) but its goin piston. when funds allow. similar weight and similar power but at a lower rpm. that aside. they are FUN to drive. if one rotor ever loads up, a couple ways of dealing with it, either remove fuse from fuel pump if injected or if carbed, disable fueling, or have someone tow you with plugs removed to clear it. this DOES happen sometimes. i THINK some FC's were of the 13b injected variety. and many were carbed as well. enjoy. if it were me, as a second car id say rx7. but as a primary, NOOOOOO. they have pretty much no redline lol. nothing to break no valves to float etc but high HP engines, can blow the apex seals ( 3 in each rotor) stock seals are around 56 each. last time i checked, which was a while back lol

I auto-crossed with my 85 RX-7. Wonderful car. But in those years they used the 12A engine. It's equivalent to a 1.1L and is carbuerated. Unless you're the original designer most attempts to fix that damn NIKki carb is futile. The 13B is a far superior engine with much more power, available in the 85 GSL-SE. I swapped my 12A for a twin-turbo 13B and it was an incredible car. No miata could touch it.

A carb swap for the 12a seems pretty common.  I do like the idea of fuel injection though.  The FB I rode it last week had a 13b swapped in from a FC. 

The 84-85 GSL-SE seems like the way to go, but everyone else has figured that out too, so they tend to go for a bit more money.  I suppose it'd be worth it though.

Miata for sure, for reliability and decent power and handling. Most fun car I've ever driven in an auto-X event. Plus you can get a used turbo kit for like $500 or piece meal one and make it even more fun to drive!Don't get me wrong the RX-7 is great but the apex seals on a rotary engine are not know for reliability. Just my 2 cents 

More Mazda love on this forum than a Mazda dedicated site.  I approve.  :thumb:

I'm no mazda superfan, in fact I like all makes.  But Mazda seems to have the right recipe of fun in a package I can afford.

Miata...its only flaw is a lack of power and a lack of understanding from the world that knows nothing...aka those that call it a chick car.

Neither of the flaws matter, its incredibly reliable, fun, droptop, gokart-ish...easy to work on, easy to mod, easy to just leave stock and drive...

If the Gs handled like a supersport it would be the miata of motorcycles

Quote from: manofthefield on May 21, 2012, 06:01:33 PM
I'm no mazda superfan, in fact I like all makes.  But Mazda seems to have the right recipe of fun in a package I can afford.

Well said.  That's probably why so many GS owners have mazdas.  Just take the word Mazda out and put in the  GS500.

I would love to get an rx-7, but I have no idea how to work on a rotary so I would have to go with the Miata. I can't wait to buy a Miata, I don't care if it is a "chick car" and really what is a "dude car?" I see just as many girls driving Mustangs as frat boys.

I absolutely love Mazdas! If I had the money I would buy a Mazdaspeed Protege, Protege 5 wagon, Mazdaspeed 3, a Miata track car, and an FD Rx-7!

Unfortunately, I am a poor college kid so I will just have to keep riding the GS, but I will buy a first gen Miata around this time next year! :D

Quote from: Tronspeed3 on May 21, 2012, 09:36:55 AM
Miata for sure, for reliability and decent power and handling. Most fun car I've ever driven in an auto-X event. Plus you can get a used turbo kit for like $500 or piece meal one and make it even more fun to drive!Don't get me wrong the RX-7 is great but the apex seals on a rotary engine are not know for reliability. Just my 2 cents

in a turbo 13b tbh if stock theyre garbage. but roughly 180 per rotor to replace 3, and 2 rotors per engine. and roughly 6 hours give or take to remove engine, and strip it for service. really isnt that bad. this usually doesnt happen that often if you keep the rpms below 9000 lol

Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on May 22, 2012, 07:41:53 PM

Quote from: Tronspeed3 on May 21, 2012, 09:36:55 AM
Miata for sure, for reliability and decent power and handling. Most fun car I've ever driven in an auto-X event. Plus you can get a used turbo kit for like $500 or piece meal one and make it even more fun to drive!Don't get me wrong the RX-7 is great but the apex seals on a rotary engine are not know for reliability. Just my 2 cents

in a turbo 13b tbh if stock theyre garbage. but roughly 180 per rotor to replace 3, and 2 rotors per engine. and roughly 6 hours give or take to remove engine, and strip it for service. really isnt that bad. this usually doesnt happen that often if you keep the rpms below 9000 lol

RPMs BELOW 9K????? NEVER. Honestly, the rotary is extremely easy to work with if you get the concept in your head.It's actually easier than most "regular" engines. If you get a 12a engine, then swap the carb with a holley, which requires a new intake manifold, you're probably gonna spend about the same as getting the GSL-SE or a awful ugly 2nd gen. There is nothing wrong with a miata but thereis nothing like spooling up the turbos on a rotary engine whining up to that magical 10k exhaust note. Well, the GS is pretty close.

Quote from: Huff1371 on May 24, 2012, 04:48:51 PM

Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on May 22, 2012, 07:41:53 PM

Quote from: Tronspeed3 on May 21, 2012, 09:36:55 AM
Miata for sure, for reliability and decent power and handling. Most fun car I've ever driven in an auto-X event. Plus you can get a used turbo kit for like $500 or piece meal one and make it even more fun to drive!Don't get me wrong the RX-7 is great but the apex seals on a rotary engine are not know for reliability. Just my 2 cents

in a turbo 13b tbh if stock theyre garbage. but roughly 180 per rotor to replace 3, and 2 rotors per engine. and roughly 6 hours give or take to remove engine, and strip it for service. really isnt that bad. this usually doesnt happen that often if you keep the rpms below 9000 lol

RPMs BELOW 9K????? NEVER. Honestly, the rotary is extremely easy to work with if you get the concept in your head.It's actually easier than most "regular" engines. If you get a 12a engine, then swap the carb with a holley, which requires a new intake manifold, you're probably gonna spend about the same as getting the GSL-SE or a awful ugly 2nd gen. There is nothing wrong with a miata but thereis nothing like spooling up the turbos on a rotary engine whining up to that magical 10k exhaust note. Well, the GS is pretty close.

ive seen many turbo 13b's blow apex seals north of 9k. and yes theyre quite simple to work on. front plate, front rotor housing, inside contains rotor and 3 apex seals. through which the eccentric shaft runs, then central plate, then rear rotor housing. essent. same as front.  then rear plate ( left out quite a few small parts lol)

The question here is how reliable do you want the car to be?  My NB Miata is now at 145,000 relatively problem free miles.  My first car was a 1982 RX-7 who's apex seals blew within 5,000 miles of me owning it (less than 50,000 miles on the car).

Well, I don't want the car to be a constant project, but I can handle occasional downtime since it's a second car.  I think I can accept replacing the apex seals once if I really have to, but I will expect things to hold up for 50k+ miles after that.

Just an update, I'm definitely leaning RX-7 right now and will probably go that way unless a super deal Miata comes along.

Convertibles are way more "wobbly" in the corners. Get a roof to sort that out(or a roll cage). Miata's got the wheel base for very hard turns once the flex is dealt with. Wankels sound whiny.

mine wasnt wobbly at all. bracing FTW, the stock black bbs wheels help. backs are almost 10" wide suspension is no slouch either. last time i drove it before i pulled the rotary, i had it up to about 9500 shes spittin fire out of a 5" fart can LOUDLY. if i dont v8 her, i can build a rotary about same price mine when she died was at 179k miles i think apex seals were replaced at 87k accd to paperwork. and ones that were in it upon disassembly were still good. but plating was going in the rotor housings
this is how fun they are to drive this one has the light colored bbs wheels. but looks same otherwise love how they sound too. plus to remove engine takes on average 2 hours. takes all of 20 minutes to disassemble it) heres a drive in one
actually no heres deflooding one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZVVGOr8jRo&feature=related
heres driving a 91 vert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJfmqQ3NXUE&feature=related

Miata!

Here's my 1991 (NA6) with 190,000 mile track car:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/pantablo/cbc40a2a.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/pantablo/c07bffe1.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/543699_3294582997921_674946543_n.jpg)

easy and cheap as chips to work on:
My pit crew swapping wheels, lol
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/395877_2839379458117_215143814_n.jpg)

parts are super cheap. Easy on consumables. Consumables are cheap (relative to other track cars).


The apex seals are the weak link of the rx-7 and are in the middle of the motor...

I bought my miata already track prepped for $3000.
Had spare wheels (which I sold and replaced with better ones)
stainless brake lines
upgraded brakes and rear LSD diff
roll bar
hard top
de powered, de a/c'd, etc
a few other things I cant remember

I bought race tires ($600 installed), alum bigger radiator ($300) and after 4 trackdays I need to replace the original pads of unknown age for $300 (race pads and new rotors). Easy enough I can do the work myself in my carport.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGxRLGKbJQI

Don't get a vert unless it is a hard top or one you can store in a garage! I had nothing but misery in mine for four years. Although, the sunfire GT was a fun car to drive I wasn't too sad to see it go. I got this last week!

(http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr264/Toogoofy317/IMAG0300.jpg)

Almost as fun to drive as riding Flick almost Flick is still more fun!

Mary

Or if you got the cash I was digging this vert!

(http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr264/Toogoofy317/IMAG0308.jpg)
Didn't like that he had "Porsche" in huge letters on the side but was still gorgeous!

Mary

Quote from: pantablo on June 05, 2012, 11:26:49 PM
Miata!

Here's my 1991 (NA6) with 190,000 mile track car:

I bought my miata already track prepped for $3000.

Where'd you find your track prepped car?  It's the wrong time of year, but the only miatas around here seem to be $5000ish and they're all stockish.

GET A RX-7!!!!! You'll be happy you did. Find a cheap one then call Atkins Rotary in CA. I had about $5000 in mine and it was unbelievable. There is no Miata under $10,000 that would come close in anything but MPG. Not hating on a Miata, They are a blast to drive but if you want a performance machine it's hard to not go with a RX.

I've got $4000 in mine. If I put in another $1000 I'd eat your 7 for lunch. BRING IT! lol.

Quote from: manofthefield on June 06, 2012, 10:02:28 AM

Quote from: pantablo on June 05, 2012, 11:26:49 PM
Miata!

Here's my 1991 (NA6) with 190,000 mile track car:

I bought my miata already track prepped for $3000.

Where'd you find your track prepped car?  It's the wrong time of year, but the only miatas around here seem to be $5000ish and they're all stockish.

Craigslist. Seriously. I just got lucky. Wasn't even advertised that way but as I talked to the guy more and more he wanted me to have the car over some buyers that had already contacted him. He had bought the car and did the prep himself with a company he is a partner in (AWR Racing in San Diego, http://www.awrracing.com/ ). I looked within 300 miles of my house. It was 3 hours away. He drove it for 3 years to learn racecraft. Now he races a heavily modified miata (look up DrGoodwrench on youtube). So when he heard I wanted a track car and not a daily driver he felt I was the perfect candidate. There were a few other key things the car had that make it a bit special and good on track. Suspension was completely done (coilovers, bushings, etc) and the top end was blueprinted.
total luck on my part.

You'll want to either budget $1000 or so for suspension, $500 for wheels and a bit more for odd bits here and there to get it track ready. Definitely get one with a 4 point roll bar minimum. Or with a good suspension. the roll bar will be $500 minimum and is required for tracking the car at most tracks (rule for convertibles). Mine had all the good bits so if you're patient you can find one with all the key things for a good price. I bought mine in November though...although here in SoCal its convertible weather all year.

Quote from: Huff1371 on June 06, 2012, 04:34:48 PM
GET A RX-7!!!!! You'll be happy you did. Find a cheap one then call Atkins Rotary in CA. I had about $5000 in mine and it was unbelievable. There is no Miata under $10,000 that would come close in anything but MPG. Not hating on a Miata, They are a blast to drive but if you want a performance machine it's hard to not go with a RX.

You may be right, but a 280HP (BEGI stage 4 turbo kit), 2500 pound Miata is nothing to sneeze at. $10k will get you car, kit and wider rubber.

Quote from: pantablo on June 06, 2012, 05:12:29 PM
I've got $4000 in mine. If I put in another $1000 I'd eat your 7 for lunch. BRING IT! lol.

Quote from: manofthefield on June 06, 2012, 10:02:28 AM
Playful banter. But I know it to be false. Unless you somehow got 300+HP out of it. Then an afterburner. Then a really steep downhill grade , and finally beam that the miata could just fit under on the Finish line. I did get lucky and start with  $500 car (no title) but by the time it was done my friends M3 played hell keeping up.  It is one of my biggest regrets to have sold it. I now am messing with a 87 Camaro. It's the heaviest most over-steering impractical and ugly thing I've ever seen. But with a 425HP 383ci monster under the hood, its good for some good cheap redneck fun.

Have no idea what went on with the quote thing

Pablo, you got one hell of a steal.  I'll keep my eyes open, if I find something like that, I'd jump on it, but I'll probably end up with an RX-7.  At this point I don't plan to track the car, just autoX it. 

Quote from: Toogoofy317 on June 06, 2012, 07:03:52 AM
Don't get a vert unless it is a hard top or one you can store in a garage! I had nothing but misery in mine for four years. Although, the sunfire GT was a fun car to drive I wasn't too sad to see it go. I got this last week!

Almost as fun to drive as riding Flick almost Flick is still more fun!

Mary

I'm lucky to be able to garage whatever I get.  That Versa should be a good car, I've heard a lot of good things despite it's low entry price.  Looks great in blue too!

My current car (and will continue to be my daily driver) is a Mazda3 hatchback, so I'm partial to hatches.  My 3 handles great, in fact I took 5th of 35 with PAX (handicap factor) in autocross last weekend.

Anyone know enough about RX-7s to comment on this car's mods?  This one's tempting (I know I can get it much lower than the buy it now)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=ViewItem&item=380432286752&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D380432286752%26_rdc%3D1#ht_758wt_1165 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=ViewItem&item=380432286752&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D380432286752%26_rdc%3D1#ht_758wt_1165)

Quote from: manofthefield on June 06, 2012, 05:47:29 PM
Anyone know enough about RX-7s to comment on this car's mods?  This one's tempting (I know I can get it much lower than the buy it now)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=ViewItem&item=380432286752&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D380432286752%26_rdc%3D1#ht_758wt_1165 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=ViewItem&item=380432286752&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D380432286752%26_rdc%3D1#ht_758wt_1165)

NICE car. engine wise, if/when it goes down can be rebuilt in 3 hours. if no major damage. usually just replace apex seals. theres no rods to break, no valves to bend/burn, yes they can be maintenance intensive. but FWIW that is a NICE example of an rx

Good starting platform. Carb has been done. Other than that the price seems steep. Nice car though

Quote from: Huff1371 on June 06, 2012, 07:20:49 PM
Good starting platform. Carb has been done. Other than that the price seems steep. Nice car though

Current craigslist asking price is 3500

thats an exceptionally good looking car. too good to track imo, but you want a fun weekend car that occasionally sees autoX, right? If you want a fun car why not get a miata with a hardtop? more fun when the tops down.
The miata is also considered a benchmark autox car due to the low weight (early NA's are 2300 lbs or so iirc, as a dd), perfect weight balance and exceptional handling.
either way you'll have fun in the 7 or the miata. the FD rx7 (last gen) is my favorite 7 though.

I like the FD, but they are out of my budget.  I'd probably go for a S2000 over an FD though.

Well, I looked at and drove that car yesterday.  I asked for someone local on rx7club to go back with me since I only half know what I'm looking at. 

The immediate issues I found all seem like they can be overcome, but I'm hoping for a second opinion, or to drive some other similar vintage cars.

Issues:
-Steering pulls to left, hopefully just needs alignment
-Shifter is quite short and requires a firm touch, I'm just not used to a short shifter
-Radio doesn't work, owner claims fuse is just blown
-Engine seemed pretty good, but I think the carb could use tuning.  This is where I want a more experienced rotary guy to come with and confirm
-Body is about 7/10, most of the paint is good, but a little rust on the bottom of the back bumper.  Also I noticed that one of the flip up headlights is a little misaligned when flipped down

carbies , you have yto let em warm up before moving out. ( if you didnt do that) i had to do that with my FI 13b, but it was a high mileage temperamental SOB

Quote from: manofthefield on June 09, 2012, 06:15:59 AM
Well, I looked at and drove that car yesterday.  I asked for someone local on rx7club to go back with me since I only half know what I'm looking at. 

The immediate issues I found all seem like they can be overcome, but I'm hoping for a second opinion, or to drive some other similar vintage cars.

Issues:
-Steering pulls to left, hopefully just needs alignment
-Shifter is quite short and requires a firm touch, I'm just not used to a short shifter
-Radio doesn't work, owner claims fuse is just blown
-Engine seemed pretty good, but I think the carb could use tuning.  This is where I want a more experienced rotary guy to come with and confirm
-Body is about 7/10, most of the paint is good, but a little rust on the bottom of the back bumper.  Also I noticed that one of the flip up headlights is a little misaligned when flipped down

fuse-if it were an easy fix the seller would have done it. otherwise he's a lazy arse and you cant depend on him to have taken care of the car otherwise either. I mean, how f'ing hard is it to change a fuse?

Quote from: pantablo on June 10, 2012, 10:15:53 PM

Quote from: manofthefield on June 09, 2012, 06:15:59 AM
Well, I looked at and drove that car yesterday.  I asked for someone local on rx7club to go back with me since I only half know what I'm looking at. 

The immediate issues I found all seem like they can be overcome, but I'm hoping for a second opinion, or to drive some other similar vintage cars.

Issues:
-Steering pulls to left, hopefully just needs alignment
-Shifter is quite short and requires a firm touch, I'm just not used to a short shifter
-Radio doesn't work, owner claims fuse is just blown
-Engine seemed pretty good, but I think the carb could use tuning.  This is where I want a more experienced rotary guy to come with and confirm
-Body is about 7/10, most of the paint is good, but a little rust on the bottom of the back bumper.  Also I noticed that one of the flip up headlights is a little misaligned when flipped down

fuse-if it were an easy fix the seller would have done it. otherwise he's a lazy arse and you cant depend on him to have taken care of the car otherwise either. I mean, how f'ing hard is it to change a fuse?

very true. 7's are NOT for those who cant be arsed about a fuse on a radio. radio fuse maybe not a deal breaker, but i WOULD take someone who knows about these cars to look in person @ it. i bought a 7 whos previous owner treated it like a corolla. those just do NOT exist for long. mine is existing sans its engine in my driveway right now.  :bs:

Yeah, I think that's what's not adding up for me.  There are a lot of seemingly simple fixes, yet he can't be bothered to fix them when he's trying to sell it?  Plus he's got a repair shop, shouldn't he be able to do this stuff quickly or have good contacts to get it perfect?  Maybe he's extra lazy.  So I'm passing on this one for now. 

There's a GSL-SE (13b, FI) near my parents which is about 5 hours away from me.  I'm tempted to have my dad look at it for me, but the asking price is over $5k.  I think the price is reasonable for what it is, but more than I was planning to spend.  I'm kinda torn about whether I stick to my budget or go over it for the good model (which I could swing).  I don't generally buy cars as investments, but a GSL-SE is more likely to a hold it's value or appreciate.  I've seen good ones go for $6.5k or more on ebay.

i kept one of the old rotor housings as a desk weight. eventually a clock

I'd be wary of buying a car with the idea that you'd ever make money on it. unless you plan on restoring a chevelle or some Mopar muscle(I'd gladly give someone scrap price for their ford). It's really not worth it in this market. You plan on putting this car on a track. That means you have accepted the likelihood that you'll be in the hay or through the gravel trap or worse, or a least sliding through some cones. The only thing you should worry about is the raw mechanics. If you find a car with a great powertrain, good suspension, but some fugley paint. Why not go for it. The fastest car at the last Auto-x meet was a silver/primer/something reddish, late 80's Dodge Colt hatchback 4 door with welded out suspension and a turbo. He was beating out the Elise that was there as well as the Solstice GXP . Ugly just means everyone gives you that much more respect when you pass them or beat their time.

Quote from: Huff1371 on June 14, 2012, 06:03:24 AM
If You plan on putting this car on a track you have accepted the likelihood that you'll be in the hay or through the gravel trap or worse, or a least sliding through some cones. The only thing you should worry about is the raw mechanics. If you find a car with a great powertrain, good suspension, but some fugley paint. Why not go for it.

That was my thinking when I got my Miata too. Didn't care and still don't care what it looks like.

Quote from: Huff1371 on June 14, 2012, 06:03:24 AMThe fastest car at the last Auto-x meet was a silver/primer/something reddish,

lol. exactly. the scratches and dings dont show here, nor does the craptastic interior, lol.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/pantablo/cbc40a2a.jpg)

Update:

:icon_mrgreen:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/manofthefield/RX7/100_0955.jpg)

well.... it looks nice and neat in the photo  :thumb:

I used to own a Red Mazda RX7 series 2. One of the seals went on it. I had the seal fixed and when I went to pick it up the mechanic showed me why it had gone - the lube line had been rerouted by the PO or some such. I asked why he didn't route it correctly so the seal would not be without lube and go again. he said, "I hadn't asked him to."

Well Duh! Of course I want the reason for the seal failure fixed too, Sheesh. This would have required booking in and yadda yadda yadda. I drove the car home and traded it in on something else.

Of all the cars I have owned, that RX7 is the only one I regret selling and wish I still had it now. Totally unpractical. But pure driving pleasure - as long as you got used to how everything was higher than you on the road.

Great score, my friend. You will enjoy this car.

Michael

Quote from: Janx101 on August 21, 2012, 08:26:25 PM
well.... it looks nice and neat in the photo  :thumb:

Thanks, and yes it does.  I would call it a 5 foot car (looks very good from 5 feet away).  It's not perfect, but it runs and drives well.  It has a few issues to work out, but I'm enjoying driving it until I have time to work on those issues.

Nice. Now you just have to slap a big number on the side and go.