just picked up a clean 2002 gs500e and had the carbs cleaned up/synced (floating RPMs).
Will I notice any sort of difference if I use ethanol-free gasoline?
Do any of you all have Smyth experience using these fuels?
TIA
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Funny you should ask, this is really weird. I just stopped this morning to fill up with ethanol-free gasoline (place in my town advertises ethanol-free gasoline) But to my dismay the pump was not open yet so I just left. I've been wanting to try it in my bike. I'm going to try to run over tonight with my gas can and fill it up. I would think it would run better on EFGas.
There are a few places near me that sell it, but not close enough to be convenient. I try to buy it whenever I can if I'm nearby. I don't see any noticable difference in power or fuel efficiency in any of my vehicles, but I feel better knowing its 100% gas. Especially in the bike and van I don't drive very much -- it takes a lot longer for real gas to go bad.
I will do anything possible to not use ethanol in any motor in my garage, including lawn mower, leaf blower, etc. I would even purposely run out of gas and walk to the next gas station up the road before willingly putting anything containing ethanol into my tank.
In my car, I find that gas w/ ethanol burns faster and hotter, so my tank empties quicker and the engine runs 10-15* hotter than usual. I have also read many reports of 2-cycle engines being ruined by gas + ethanol.
Unfortunately for those who live in the "breadbasket" Midwest states (IL, IA, etc) due to the massive amounts of corn grown, it is a sacrilege to sell or use EF gas anywhere in those states. Even the big brands (Shell, BP, etc) put ethanol in their gas in those states.
I have a local ethanol free station. I have been running it in my drz for a while now. Finally timed it so i have been running only it, and only it, for the past 3 tanks. Didn't notice any improvements, but I feel its worth the extra ~.10/gal. If only for peace of mind on my behalf.
My driving is all over, sometimes only quick in town and short mountain trips. Sometimes I'll get the time to run a whole tank through in 1 ride. My gas mileage ranges from high 40's(in town tanks) to high 50's(more highway speeds). Here's my mileage tracker for D'arcy (http://www.fuelly.com/driver/steezinandwheezin/drz400sm).
#5134
Useful links:
http://www.buyrealgas.com/
http://pure-gas.org/
That's some good info! i didn't know know if that would be good for my bike or not, i've seen one or two stations around but no-where near me. I'll have to try it some time, anyone know how it compares to premium?
I was doing a carb sync,...last weekend or maybe weekend before and I had a small steel dish with gas in it that I was pouring into my makeshift auxiliary tank. After ten minutes it would start to cloud up. I guess that was the ethanol reacting to the humidity??
-just did a quick google search on this and plenty of guys talking about how the ethanol sucks the water in. Shazam. And no EF gas stations in 200 miles of Houston :cry:
#5138
Water: rust!
That's why I use fuel additive. You need it more if your bike sits as gas goes bad after a few months. There are lots of additives for ethanol issues, so no point suggesting a brand other than every once in a while I add Seafoam to help keep things clean.
so ... let me get this straight ... a lot of ppl in the U.S. normally use fuel containing ethanol... and a lot also prefer not to..
the local lads to me will swear till their heads fall off that the e10 we have here (whats the ratio in the U.S. ?) will melt bits and make things on the bike bad... (you name it they reckon it'll affect it) .. same for their cars too... funny thing is my missus car runs fine on it and has done for over 30,000 km ..
its no use trying to ask anyone i know that rides in Australia about it .. they all 'know from someone that its shaZam!'
i'm just trying to find someone who HAS actually used it even semi regularly .. and find out what the issues or non issues really are ..
eg .. if it does eat out the seals in the carbs .. and are there ethanol resistant kits for replacing the seals with .. etc
my mate did use e10 in his mower and had to have the carb rebuilt.... ok fine and dandy .. but the carb on the bike and his nearly 3/4 plastic carb on the mower are way different! ... just as the efi on my missus car is different again
not trying to hack on anyones ideas .. but i think its kinda like the human effect on climate change thing .. theres a lot of loudly vocal PRO and ANTI people all yabbering on about it... all putting their own spin on the "proven data" .. but somewhere in there has gotta be the actual grass roots info by someone who has actually done it... :dunno_black:
cheers ppl
I only use e10 in my ct110's and have done for years with no adverse affect. I have also used it in my Hilux for years as well and its still going like new!!
hmmm ... you didnt put different seals or fuel hose on or other bits cods? ...
interesting .. i like the idea of being able to use e10... i'm not so much a save the planet tree hugger as... its a bit cheaper than normal fuel .. and local station has 94ron e10 instead of the usual 91ron .. AND i will put 98ron premium in the bugger just cos i can O0 ..
but thats not the point ... every man and his dog 'knows' its bad .. but i dont think it is. :icon_neutral: .. i think its one of these urban-myth type situ's in a lot of cases.
sure it will eat plastic bits like in mowers and garden equip .. and i wouldn't leave it long term in any tank on anything as it does attract moisture... but for day to day use ... on my bike .. most people here bikes.. the gs500 .. i haven't yet seen someone say .. "hey it melted my fuel line" or "it ate my carb seals and fuel ran out everywhere" ... but then i haven't read ALL the threads ..
i have seen plenty of little references to "my friend said...." and "the fuel company says....." or "this guy on the news......."
and in the mighty postie bikes eh cods!? .. you tree hugger you!! :kiss3: :laugh: :flipoff:
Quote from: Janx101 on July 25, 2012, 10:00:05 PM
hmmm ... you didnt put different seals or fuel hose on or other bits cods? ...
and in the mighty postie bikes eh cods!? .. you tree hugger you!! :kiss3: :laugh: :flipoff:
No I havent changed anything from factory and no I am not a tree hugger. I just like cheap fuel :thumb:
I have run gas containing ethanol in my subaru for the past few years with no adverse affects.
Quote from: iclrag on July 25, 2012, 02:30:08 PM
..anyone know how it compares to premium?
Just wanted to add that i run Pure's ethanol free premium gas(93) in the drz
Here's something that explains a bit about gas+ethanol (E10) versus EF gas: http://www.whitelake.com/files/the_problems_with_Ethanol.pdf (http://www.whitelake.com/files/the_problems_with_Ethanol.pdf)
In a nutshell, if you cycle through the full tank of E10 gas every week or so, you'll be ok. If you buy some quantity of E10 gas at a time for your lawnmower, boat, motorcycle that you only use occasionally (not the full quantity of gas every couple weeks), you need to treat it with Seafoam, Sta-Bil, etc. to ensure the E10 gas stays "dry" and doesn't experience phase separation as readily.
You also need to be especially careful not to spill gas containing ethanol on anything you don't want damaged/marred: fiberglass, paint, etc. as it will more readily dissolve those materials than EF gas.
Only thing I've really noticed is some MotionPro fuel hose that I bought because it was clear, turned ROCK hard after a couple of months. Other than that I haven't noticed too much of an issue,.....(crosses fingers).
Well, 99% of gas stations in Washington State are e10 only so its all I have ran through my '96 Dodge Caravan, '06 GS500, '82 CT110 and '88 NX650 for at least the last 5 years. No problems unless I let the gas sit for at least 2 months it goes bad. If you actually use your vehicles, no problems.
<monty burns voice> .. excellent! .. thank you gentlemen
i'm gonna give it a go... use it for several weeks .. then casually let the info slip during a coffee stop on a group ride... hopefully while the anti's are at full cry .. :icon_twisted:
only thing i can think of that would mar the situ in Aussieland is that if any seals and hoses vary from country to country?... like if cos ethanol is so prevalent in the 'States do suzuki or the importers etc .. deliberately put different seals/hoses in?! .. i dont think they would... but ya never know.
if it caused some issue then i'll man up and accept my penance ... just painful budget wise in the end.
ah well... due for a tankful after next ride ... lets rock!! :thumb:
Let me start by saying: I do NOT work in a lab. Nor am I any kind of engineer / scientist / whatever.
I have read (online of course) that ethanol does not burn like gasoline. So the 10% in local gas stations is just a filler. With E10 gas, you get 10% less fuel economy and 10% less power. Older vehicles (maybe even the first generation GS500?) aren't usually able to handle ethanol. It breaks down certain plastics, rubber, and fiberglass resins which are used in older carbs and especially in boats.
Now what I DO know. I left some E10 gas in a plastic yellow dirt bike tank (from the mid 70's) for about 2 months and when I drained it, it did have a soupy yellow haze to it. I have friends who have had to rebuild boat motors because the gas dissolved the rubber in the carbs. And there are numerous places that sell fiberglass motorcycle tanks that tell you specifically that ethanol will destroy the tank.
Your results may vary though........
yeah thats cool too Big Rich :thumb: thanks
for everyone
lots of stuff to read online .. the 10% more/less thing gets used a lot.. sounds similar to the LPG data that was always quoted.. which is certainly true if you run LPG through a petrol carb .. but with a LPG/Venturi style system you gain up to 10%... so i dunno .. :dunno_black: .. i have read that yeah ethanol does not burn exactly like gasoline, but it can modify the way the gasoline flame front performs .. in a positive way .. mind you this was on a pro-ethanol site.
my wifes car does get MORE km per tank with e10 though .. long distance freeway comparison to non ethanol standard fuel .. but not as many extra km as the 98ron high octane... its a people mover van thingy and doesnt really gain too much on the HP side of things though.
it says on just about ALL the pumps over here that e10 is NOT for Marine use (more plastic seals for anti corrosion in the salt i guess) .. and yeah again my mate slagged the seals in his lawnmower using e10 .. plus i know for certain that a few chainsaws and other garden type equipment have suffered also.. older plastic tanks and containers should be replaced with new ones anyway!
my gs500 is a '06 though .. so i reckon that should be new enough to handle it ... i dont have a fibreglass fuel tank ... just the normal steel one... and far as i know it dont have a plastic or fibreglass liner in it...
another thing i just thought of.. for general readers of this .. the 'popular' story is that the manufacturers dont recommend it .. and a lot of people go with that.. cool... but .. if e10 was gonna eat away the seals and rubbers .. wouldn't some 'parts place' be yelling about how they have ethanol proof rebuild kits? .. just sayin..
i dont run a extra in line filter on my bike .. mainly cos the fuel stations are all pretty good with filters on the pumps as it is. would only worry if it was some hokey little backwoods cobwebbed place with banjo players :icon_rolleyes: .. which i would do my utmost to avoid .. if i get that stuck i'll look for a farmer and offer him $10 for 5 litres .. the farmers are meticulous with their fuel pretty much! 8)
Another question on this ...
Ok so this is a gs site ... But anyone also own one of the newer liter bikes or at least a injected super sport of some desc .... AND also uses e10 fuel in it? Whether by intention or by living in the corn belt kinda thing so it's hard to get anything but ethanol mix fuel? .. Couple of my mates ride gixx 600 or liter .. Couple cbr heavy hitters too .. I don't intend to preach and hassle them about using the fuel but I am interested if anyone with INJECTION has suffered by using the e10?
Our humble gs is 'tough enough' to digest the fuel with no major issues so long as the fuel is fresh-ish .. So what's the additional issue if any with FI bikes?
Rode today till the reserve was near empty and filled with the local servo 94 Ron e10 ... Did another 60 km of freeway home and it's still purrin like a warm kitty .. If anything it's a little peppy-er .. But the old fuel was just that .. Old .. About 5 weeks since I put any in cos I'm only usually riding to a coffee night once a week... :icon_rolleyes:
Ethanol on its own as a fuel requires larger jets and a higher compresson ratio and in return you get more horse power and dare i say it HIGHER FUEL CONSUMPTION even though it has greater cooling than 100 octane .this is why fuel companys only add a small amount to petrol.Otherwise if they added more you would have to change to larger jets and higher compresson. A modern fuel injection moter has a knock sensor which alters the fuel injection and timing to suit in a very limited way . Interestingly Air/fuel ratio by weight for 100 octane is approxmatly 13.2:1 And for ethanol it is 8.95:1
its all i use in my bike. and all of my small engines. a lot of the stuff they put in gas now wasnt in gas when my bike was made, or my lawn mower for that matter. i tried regular gas that has 10% ethenal in it and it ran like shaZam! would sputter and sound terible, so i put prem that didn't have ethenal in it and it ran fine (this was the lawn mower). when i was a delivery driver my truck was in the shop and the owner of the shop said in his new truck he fills up twice a year with gas that doesn't have ethenal in it. it can leave a white powder on the injectors. just my experence.
had to fill up the drz at a regular station the other day, we'll see if i notice anything after having ~5 tanks of pure in it
ON my 2nd take of E free gas. My bike runs better on it for sure. Quieter, smoother, starts easier and has more low end grunt...a little. My riding mower loves it. It was hard to start on E10 no it starts right up. Running the first tank in my 4runner now. They sell it at Breigners tire and service center between Littlestown and Hanover PA on rt194 if anyone is interested.
Just wanted to chime in here. I am just about to finish my first tank of 91 E-Free gas. Either I am crazy or my '94 is running quieter and smoother. Not sure if it was knocking or what but it just feels all out smoother. Could be a mental thing.
I was running 87 octane with 10% for the last 4 years, at the local Fast Trac they now sell 91 octane E free. So maybe it was the ocatane boost vs E free...
I tried ethanol free 90 octane (as opposed to the premium I normally run) and I was nothing but dissapointed. Bike required constant idle adjustment, power was down, and the gas mileage was atrocious, I lost 10mpg. Also, I could NOT drive with the throttle just barely open (like cruising at 30) without the exhaust just being a chorus of pops and backfires.
Ran it out, put run of the mill premium in it, and every single issue the fuel started went away in literally 1 mile.
*Yes, I know the GS should run on 87, mine just runs better on 93