It's me again,
Got on the bike last night after work, parked it in first cause I was on a hill, pulled the clutch in and hit start, it begins to turn over, stops. Hmm I say, put it in neutral and hit start, starter is spinning but not engaging. I was in a rush so I just 2nd gear push started, fired right up but I notice my lights look really dim, and my signals are flashing slow. well I attempt the windy road home anyway, make it about 20 minutes and my tach stops working, a mile or two after that, the bike just quit running. I pushed it the last 1/4 mile up the hill, and since its a step hill down to my place I figure I'd try to 2nd gear start it, she fires but dies as soon as you pull the clutch in, not even if your giving it throttle will it stay alive.
What has happened here? How much damage have I done? I figured riding without a starter wouldnt cause any problems, but since the generator and starter seem to be linked, I'm guessing something is busted. Is the tach voltage related? Meaning it won't read if below a certain resistance, or is it read off the generator? Did I fry my CDI again?
Thanks in advance
Ryan
Sounds like what happened to Phenix last week.
The bolt holding the magneto/starter gear came loose. The starter pins, the magneto spins but not the engine.
For a while I notice the charging was getting worse and worse. Probably due to the magneto slipping and not turning alike it should. Hence less electricity generated.
If starter clutch out, starter would go WHEEEEEEEEEEEE! But with the engine running, you would get electricity generated.
If magneto and starter bolt loose (starter gear is bolted to magneto) the starter would go WHEEEEEEEEEEE as before. However with the bike running, no electricity would get generated because the magneto is not spinning. You will be running off of the battery until it dies.
anyway, that's my guess based on your symptoms and what just happened to Phenix.
Drain oil. Take off left stator cover. Blip the starter button. I bet you see the magneto and starter gears spin but not the engine.
Remove the bolt. Add thread lock. Re-torque it to the proper spec (something like 120nm). To keep things from spinning, I stuck an allen wrench in the gears between the starter idle gear and the main starter gear. The gears are hard. The allen wrench in there doesn't phase them at all.
Off that the starter and magneto rotate counter clockwise when starting the engine which is the direction to remove the bolt. There is no key or pinon the shaft to keep things from spinning when the bolt comes loose. maybe that's a design safety feature. If the magneto were loose and flopping around, it would destroy the magnets and the stator. Slipping while still in place tells you to tighten the bolt before damage happens.
If the rotor has come loose its vital the tapers on the crank and in the rotor are inspected, any significant damage and they simply wont grip effectively and over time vibration and thermal growth will cause the rotor to loosen off and cause more damage....regardless of how tight the bolt is. Damaged tapers can be reclaimed by lapping the two parts together with fine grinding paste and 80% surface contact between the two parts should be seen as the minimum acceptable.
Keys serve only to index rotor to cranks for timing purposes, on the GS5 its not required hence the reason why there is not one.
Plenty on the net and in other various bike forums on the subject
http://classicmotorcycles.about.com/od/serviceandrepair/a/Flywheel-Removal-With-Pullers-And-Extractors.htm
http://www.motoscrubs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1033
http://www.blasterforum.com/490867-post8.html
There's "loose" and then there's "LOOSE"
On Phenix, it was snug but loose. It would turn, no wobble or anything as it was just getting loose. Bolt was a little tighter than finger tight and did come off easily with no effort with a wrench then off with the fingers.
In that case, there was no chance for damage. When engine was hot it would grab and work. That us until it got a little looser or colder and didn't grab anymore. Tightening it up took care of it.
I suspect that's his problem since it just happened. Probably worst case at present could be oil on the shaft that should be cleaned off so they hold tighter.
Key are for timing. In AMF pinsetters, most shafts have keys also to insure parts do not move if crank arms are not tight and when squids hit the sweep (rake it is called on Brunswick machines) because they don't see it is down so the crank arms do not slip and put the thing out of alignment.
My advice is to always check the tapers if the flywheel has spun, sometimes the tapers pick up leading to significant damage sometimes they dont....You, the OP or anyone else for that matter is free to follow it......... or ignore it :thumb:
Thank you for your permission to ignore you.
I wouldn't want to be accused of being a smeghead or something else for doing it my way. :bs:
Thank you for all the replies!
I had my daily cage go down and had to get her running for winter I finally got around to popping open the left side cover and taking a look, she has been sitting for over 3 months and this strange orange grease like substance appears to be built up on the inside the rotor (photobucket is down on my mac or I would upload a photo). All the magnets are in place and no damage was apparent. Yes the bolt holding the starter magneto was loose, loose enough that it was no longer snug. I removed the bolt and pulled the Rotor off, gear attached, the tapered post to which the rotor slides on looked to be fine, no apparent damage. I gave her another blip on the starter once she was together, it no longer spins, unfortunately my battery is dead, and I got hardly a turn out of it, but it engaged. :D
Now here is my new question, The rearmost gear, behind the rotor, after assembly and torquing the was still "wobbly" perhaps once the idler gear is set on its post from the engine cover that rearmost gear looses this play?
Thank you all for your replies!
Ryan
Got a pic of the "build up"
(http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb273/Skudman_2007/IMAG0190-6.jpg)
The idle gear will be a bit wobbly until the cover is back on which holds the pin in place.
PS: I see you have the idle gear pin/shaft in the outside cover. You should remove it from the cover and insert it into the gear and engine block. Better there for testing and reassembly.
PS PS: On reattaching the magneto, I made sure the tapered shaft was spotless and the mating surface in the magneto also spotless. It won't hold if oil is there. Also, I roughened up the shaft slightly for a better grab. I used some fine sandpaper and went in and out on it (sorry - in kind of a self satisfying sexyal way) to get some fine grooves. It was just enough to insure a good hold. Then after tightening things down to spec, I gave it an extra hit with the impact wrench. It hasn't come loose again.
(First time I put it back, it worked loose after a couple weeks so I went to the extra effort the 2nd time.)