First of all, thank you for looking and helping if you can.
It s a 2002 gs5 rotor changed 4k+ miles ago, valves set 2k miles ago. lunchbox, 15t sprocket... crashed a week ago.
Today I changed handlebar that was bent, and went for a ride. I planned a long ride but around 12 miles in to my trip I heard a loud pop and loss off power. mile later loud poping started and the bike died. I was on a hwy and stopped on the left... that was a mess... now I am on a train going home. I have spent 4 hours going trough the wires, trying to turn the bike on, burning on the sun and having a really good falafel.
Bat is dead. I remember using turn signals when all this started so I disconnected the turn signal relay thingie, and the front light and managed to turn the bike on,but it had no power, and as soon as I touch the brake it would cut off. Lights suck the 8.
I checked the switches and all the thingh I messed with. What I was able to conclude is that bat is dead and I will charge it tommorow. charging system is not doing its work and I do not really know how to test it without multimeter so I was thinking of turning it on and then disconnecting the bat. if it stys on, charging system works, if the engine cuts off... bingo. if it is charging system then I hope that damn tapered suzuki rotor did not come off. I mounted it by the book and trashed the thing for 4k miles. hope its not the rotor.
any thoughts?
Ok, really the only way to check this would be a voltmeter and a wiring diagram to trace your problem. Lots could be wrong here. A relay, stator, regulator, fuse, etc.
Without them, you are going to have a hard time pinpointing things I think
Look for obvious things like frayed wires, melted insulation, etc. in the mean time.
Two clues:
1. Change handlebars
2. Touch the brake and it dies
Well, then, a crash can mean bad wires or shorting wires anywhere.
I have seen it a couple times: front brake wires shorting to the handlebars - especially if you have the OEM clip on style bars.
Does the brake light work with the hand brake and the foot brake? If foot and not hand then a short or partial short in the front brake switch.
On another note, I, too, had a rotor/magneto come loose. When it comes loose, you can not start the bike. The starter gear is bolted to the magneto which is bolted on the tapered shaft. When that comes loose, the starter just spins the gear and the motor does not turn over at all. I doubt your rotor came off again.
A $10 el-cheapo volt meter is a necessity for electrical problems.
Unsure what your pop-pop sounds are.
Hope this information helps.
I checked the switches, all ok. brake lights work when bike is off, when on they kill the thing, but so do the turn lights as well. It seems any kind of drain and it works no more.
I am not more than an informed user when it comes to bikes, but my feeling is that there is no charging.
I could turn it on, though with poor results: hard/slow to rev( it revs to redline ), popping and only for a short period of time. battery is dead now. just a little bit of light showing there IS a battery.
I never managed to turn it on by starter, just by pushing it. I would run it to speed and just hop on it.
You are right guys, full batt and a multimeter. no other way.
I revved the thing a minute or two, wouldn't a loose rotor show it self then...? I hope
My wish is that it is the batt or a reg/rec
Please if you have any data on resistances and voltages for various things and some diagrams, share it. I need this thing operational by monday. i will go trough it all... Coils , signal genertor, regulator....
Popping is due to cam timing, jetting and my laziness to fix that.
The WIKI has trouble shooting and lots more info including some wiring diagrams. http://wiki.gstwins.com/
My footnote to my photobucket page has a wiring diagram, too. Though there were a few changes over the years, any color coded wiring diagram will help with the basics.
With charged battery, loose rotor will just spin when you press the starter.
If charging is working, you'll get 13.4 volts to 15 volts when you check the voltage at the battery with the engine at 2k RPM or higher.
If not charging, check voltage directly from the 3 wires from the stator. Pick 2 wires - any 2 and you should get around 70v AC. It will vary with engine speed as it is a generator. So could be 50 or 90 when revving high. If you want to know the stator is OK then measure all 3 pair combinations and the voltage should be roughly the same within 20%. But your main concern is if it is even turning.
It is possible the voltage regulator died. If stator is producing electricity and you don't see 13 to 15v DC at the battery when running then voltage regulator most likely dead.
If it does run but any drain will kill it that means anything drops the voltage so low that there is not enough voltage to generate a spark to jump the gap on the plug. That would point to loose magneto or bad voltage regulator.
Then, since you did have a crash and replaced some parts.... the problem could be somewhere else. maybe even as simple as disconnected (or cut) stator wires or voltage regulator. Could even be loose connections at the battery, loose ground wire, or?
I got to the bike with measuring devices, terabytes of data, food for two weeks and I found an empty battery cell that shorted somewhere on that highway. Rotor is ok, just now new battery is being prepared. I hope nothing in my electrical system is dead now.
I knew I should of checked it. :nono:
C est la vie.
Thank you gs collective, I got all the info I needed incredibly fast.
:bowdown:
Good job!
Dead cell will give all the symptoms of not charging and just what you experienced.
Hope you spend a few dollars more for a premium battery. Go cheap and it can happen again.
(OK - trash my post. I know ANY battery can go bad... but the chances of a premium one going bad is much less than an el-cheapo.)
I am cheap so I already got some small sealed diehard/sears made battery. BUT, when the bike is on voltage starts dropping by about .01 volt per sec. So rectifier probably got a punch in the chin. I'll test the generator output. If good, new rectifier. Last hope I have is that stator is ok. Just the rectifier and I can live with that.
I know about cheap batteries, but... ;)
Cheap batteries can trash electrical components and leave you stranded more often than quality batteries.
Glad things are working out, but I'd buy quality components. This will save on headaches.
Been there. Bought cheap, paid the price times 2. Spent a little more, and rode without electrical issues.
What about fuses? Shouldn't there be one for this exact reason?
The GS500 has only 1 fuse. It is a 20AMP found near the starter relay. It's the one under the cover, not the spare, which is clearly seen.
If the fuse blows, nothing works. Everything dead.
Quote from: sikiriki on November 05, 2012, 08:25:30 AM
What about fuses? Shouldn't there be one for this exact reason?
Well, yes, in theory... it 'should' protect the components from most electrical harm, but unfortunately fuses don't always do this... Sometimes they do not blow quickly enough, or copious amount of bad luck have cascaded over the bike, etc... keep in mind though, that a 20a fuse will only blow if amerpage exceeds that amount... if other funky things are happening under 20 amps, that fuse will never know and won't blow. Voltage could be all over the place and a fuse won't know the difference.
- Bboy
Quote from: sikiriki on November 05, 2012, 01:09:13 AM
I am cheap so I already got some small sealed diehard/sears made battery. BUT, when the bike is on voltage starts dropping by about .01 volt per sec. So rectifier probably got a punch in the chin. I'll test the generator output. If good, new rectifier. Last hope I have is that stator is ok. Just the rectifier and I can live with that.
I know about cheap batteries, but... ;)
Voltage may drop if idling under 2k rpm. I believe that's about the point where more electricity is made than consumed (headlight, ignition, etc.).
And voltage will drop if bike on and not running because no electricity being generated.
What RPM are you at when you're measuring the voltage?
I was measuring on idle, one 10amp fuse on + terminal wouldnt do harm. 15maybe.
dunno. will check the rectifier in a couple of hours.
I was in a belief that no matter what rpm. charging system would be sufficient.
It should...
Its not. Need 2000 rpm. Though it is almost enough - so idling for 10 minutes ay 1200 rpm will do no harm.
Rev the engine 2k rpm or more then measure voltage while at that rpm at the battery terminals.
Your charging system is probably just fine.
Don't wanna rush with joy, but... woooo hoooo :woohoo: :woohoo: :2guns:
I am not really sure in my measuring skills but It turns out there is about 28 volts from generator at 4k rpm, and 12,8v from rectifier. Voltage was dropping since bat. Was charged above rectifier voltage and I guess it will stabilize once the voltages and resistances find their peace. I did notice one of the DC lines from rectifier was badly oxidized. So badly in fact that when I tried to disconnect it to clean it, it just broke off. I'll go trough the wires and clean all the connections.
Bat is a 4ah thing. I'll keep a close eye on its health.
Thank you gs twin, thank you adidas, I always liked your shoes...
Tell us how you measured voltages.
As I recall, from the generator/stator there should be up to 70 volts AC (not DC!) across any 2 pair of the 3 wires.
From the voltage regulator to battery should be around 13.5v to 15v DC for optimum operation when revving at 5000 rpm or higher. Even at 4000 rpm you should see that on the DC side of the regulator.
Your voltages are low if you did the readings correctly. At 4k rpm you should be getting higher voltages.
Stock battery is a 11ah.
Clean all connections with good contact cleaner and check again.
Battery have a drain hose? Could it be leaking on your connections?
For your reference in case you don't have the manual handy:
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb442/adidasguy/Technical/electrical.png)
New battery is sealed type, old was regular with drain hole.
I measured ac on all three pairs of generator wires and the device showed 1.4 when knob was on 200v
:dunno_black:
I am glad that there is juice from generator, not really concerned about the amount.
When it comes to rectifier I measured 12.8 but wire is oxidized. I'll clean that in a few minutes, just to finish my coffee.
Depending on math, that 1.4 could mean 80v on 200v scale :dunno_black:
On a 200v scale, 1.4 really is 1.4v. There is no factoring or multiplication on a digital meter. What you see is what you have.
Were you set on AC ? The generator produces AC, not DC. The regulator/rectifier converts the 3 phase AC to DC.
I could see a reading like that of the meter was on DC when reading an AC voltage.
Ok, take two. I am sure I measured ac on generator. I cleaned and reconnecteded the corroded + line and now I get from 1.3 to 10 something on generator and it is really hard to get to clean part of metal on generator connection.
BUT now it reads 12,8 on idle and 13.66v@5krpm on battery terminals
I am fine with just getting something from all three lines from generator and voltages on battery terminals now look good to me.
Should I check something else?
The generator needs to be tested disconnected. It is an isolated thing - not grounded to the bike at all. You pick any 2 of the 3 wires and measure. Then on to the other 2 combinations of 2 of the 3 wires.
For your DC at the battery, it seems you're doing OK. Still a little low, but enough to charge the battery. Go with it for now as things seem to be working.
You might rethink your battery. 4ah is low. Spec is 11ah.
I was measuring connected. Will measure everything and clean contacts when time allows.
4ah will need to do for now.
Also, I have a 55/65 bulb up front, could that account for lower voltage? It is california model. Lights are always on. I know european models can have lights off.
Muchas gracias
Headlight should not be an issue. However when idling, due to less reserve capacity of a 4ah battery .vs. an 11ah one, it would tend to discharge a little. From my own work with measuring voltages, 2000rpm is about the cross over point from using electricity to recharging.
Re-check things when all contacts are cleaned then monitor it to be sure battery get recharged. I have an idiot LED battery status monitor on my bikes. Green=12.5v or more. Red=lower. Blinking red= below 11v. Orange=above 15.5v