So, as mentioned elsewhere, I changed my oil for the first time yesterday.
yay.
But this morning, it was REALY hard to start. and by "morning", I mean noon, in 75degree sunshine.
Even with choke, I had to crank it twice as long as usual. ANd then it popped and stuttered way longer than usual.
It even seemed to be a bit fuel starved or something.
I'm hoping this is somehow due to the fact that I did a FULL drain of the thing, over 24 hours, and its due to a lack of full oil coating, maybe.
but.. come on, how long does it take things to get recoated?
I ran it for 4 miles or so, a 10 minute run, had lunch, and started it up after that.... and it was still, shall we say, reluctant to start again :(
Did you overfill? Did you use wrong viscosity? Did you do ANYTHING else to the bike at the same time?
Cookie
Quote from: Phil B on November 05, 2012, 02:44:40 PM
So, as mentioned elsewhere, I changed my oil for the first time yesterday.
yay.
But this morning, it was REALY hard to start. and by "morning", I mean noon, in 75degree sunshine.
Even with choke, I had to crank it twice as long as usual. ANd then it popped and stuttered way longer than usual.
It even seemed to be a bit fuel starved or something.
I'm hoping this is somehow due to the fact that I did a FULL drain of the thing, over 24 hours, and its due to a lack of full oil coating, maybe.
but.. come on, how long does it take things to get recoated?
I ran it for 4 miles or so, a 10 minute run, had lunch, and started it up after that.... and it was still, shall we say, reluctant to start again :(
Quote from: twocool on November 05, 2012, 03:51:54 PM
Did you overfill? Did you use wrong viscosity? Did you do ANYTHING else to the bike at the same time?
nope, didnt do anything else.
It's tough to see with stupid practically-clear oil, but I think it endedup right at the F mark. I put in about 3.5 quarts.
10w40 motorcycle oil as sold to me for my bike by the stealership.
I can think of two possible answers...
1) mechanical things "sense fear"...so knowing this was your first oil change...the bike sensed you had the slightest doubts...and gave you some SH....t
2) evil spirits
Cookie
Quote from: Phil B on November 05, 2012, 04:33:28 PM
Quote from: twocool on November 05, 2012, 03:51:54 PM
Did you overfill? Did you use wrong viscosity? Did you do ANYTHING else to the bike at the same time?
nope, didnt do anything else.
It's tough to see with stupid practically-clear oil, but I think it endedup right at the F mark. I put in about 3.5 quarts.
10w40 motorcycle oil as sold to me for my bike by the stealership.
3.5 quarts would be too much even for an engine overhaul.
From the Suzuki service manual:
Oil change - 2.7 qts
Oil and filter change - 3.1 quarts
Engine overhaul - 3.4 quarts
Quote from: bombsquad83 on November 05, 2012, 05:09:19 PM
3.5 quarts would be too much even for an engine overhaul.
well, that was kinda a guestimate. I had a big-ol 4quart container n stuff.
so... whats the big deal about filling it too much? it has a relatively huge reservoir, seems like. What could happen if it's a bit too high?
Best case scenario is difficult to shift. next best case scenario, you get a minor oil leak. Worst case scenario something breaks because oil doesn't compress.
Better a little bit to little oil than too much. That's my opinion on the matter.
Quote from: Bluesmudge on November 05, 2012, 08:20:07 PM
Best case scenario is difficult to shift. next best case scenario, you get a minor oil leak. Worst case scenario something breaks because oil doesn't compress.
I dont understand, though... even when the engine is "hot", (ie: right after stopping"), it's not like the oil comes up through the filler spout thingie. In other words: the dipstick is lets say 6 inches. The L/F area on the end is maybe 1 inch.
What about the extra 5 inches of "extra space", what happens to that?
I mean, you can run the durn engine with the dipstick out, look down the hole (wearing goggles, from height :) ) , and its not like it's frothing up to the edge of the cap line, is it?
Engineers designed the engine to have a certain capacity of oil for a reason. To discover that reason, it'd be best to ask them, not to test your engine.
And you say not much can happen, but say that to the mile and a half trail of oil/gas mix I left on the road after it spit out through my breather hose.
Just using simple logic:
Bike ran and started fine....
Oil change and bike starts hard...
Bad starting must be because of something due to oil change...
Oil overfilled....
Overfilled oil is the culprit!!!
Overfilling oil is extremely bad........
Oil level gets up to the crank and or pistons...
This will cause excessive drag on the engine...(hard to start)
this will cause the rods and crank to whip the oil into an aerated froth....
Frothy oil is mostly air...does not lube correctly
frothy oil will not pump thru the oil pump correctly or at all....can cause low oil pressure or flow....
Some say too much oil can cause too high oil pressure and blow seals.....
Worst case ...you get smoking..even oil into the combustion chamber and hydraulic lock or bent rods.....
You must drain the oil.....save it if you want...then replace with the correct quantity....(remember if you don't change the filer again, you have to account for the quantity left in the filter....
I always go a bit "short" on quantity.....as long as you are in the middle of the "range" you are ok...
Under the min mark is no good....over the max mark is also no good....
Always follow the owners manual or the service manual...
Cookie
I put 3 quarts of oil in every time I change GS500 oil with or without a filter change. Oil is a little below the full mark with filter change and a little above without filter change. If the oil is not above the flat part of the dip stick there is no hot shifting to neutral problem.
Fresh oil can be hard to see on the dip stick but a day and some miles later it will have darkened quite a bit and be easy to see. twocool is right on, overfilling to the point the crank hits the oil can foam oil and cause serious engine damage.
Hmm. well, that kinda makes sense.
(it doesnt make sense to me, that they didnt equip the thing with some kind of decent overflow mechanism. But anyways...)
I think I only have it a *little* over the maximum oil level. I think i'll wait for the suggested day or two's riding to give some color to the oil, so I can check better.
You're making a BIG mistake...don't do it! If the bike is hard to start, and it wasn't before...you did something wrong...fix the problem before you make a small problem into a big problem....
New oils is only $12...you can drain the old...save it, measure it and put int he proper amount and eliminate the problem all together....
Just my 2 c
Cookie
Quote from: Phil B on November 06, 2012, 09:02:38 PM
Hmm. well, that kinda makes sense.
(it doesnt make sense to me, that they didnt equip the thing with some kind of decent overflow mechanism. But anyways...)
I think I only have it a *little* over the maximum oil level. I think i'll wait for the suggested day or two's riding to give some color to the oil, so I can check better.
Quote from: twocool on November 06, 2012, 09:22:14 PM
You're making a BIG mistake...don't do it! If the bike is hard to start, and it wasn't before...you did something wrong...fix the problem before you make a small problem into a big problem....
New oils is only $12...you can drain the old...save it, measure it and put int he proper amount and eliminate the problem all together....
Just my 2 c
Cookie
Quote from: Phil B on November 06, 2012, 09:02:38 PM
Hmm. well, that kinda makes sense.
(it doesnt make sense to me, that they didnt equip the thing with some kind of decent overflow mechanism. But anyways...)
I think I only have it a *little* over the maximum oil level. I think i'll wait for the suggested day or two's riding to give some color to the oil, so I can check better.
twocool's right ... absolutely. The minor annoyance of having to deal with the oil level now is well worth avoiding the major annoyance (and expense) of dealing with real damage later. If you don't want to drain everything, use a big syringe and some tubing, or a turkey baster to remove some oil through the filler mouth. Seeing the oil level before it has more color might be a little more difficult, but it's by no means hard, and is hardly a reasonable excuse for the risk you're taking.
As far as a lack of overflow mechanism -- do you really want all the vehicles in front of you dropping excess oil on the road? :dunno_black:
As far as a lack of overflow mechanism -- do you really want all the vehicles in front of you dropping excess oil on the road?
And...on a motorcycle, the over flow mechanism would overflow directly into the path of your own rear tire!!!!!!!
How did you check your oil level with dipstick screwed in ,or screwed out and then dipped .SCREWED OUT AND DIP IS THE CORRECT WAY. i suspect you have overfilled and have created a friction problem through this ,it is quite noticable on low horse power engines. Next problem from overfilling is blown oil seals.BIKE MUST BE VERTICAL AND NOT ON SIDE STAND.
Dip stick screwed in or screwed out depends on oil temperature too. Traditional way of checking the oil level is with the bike vertical with a hot engine shut off and waiting a couple minutes for oil to drain down and then check the oil level by putting the dipstick in without screwing it down. Decades ago when my 82 CB750 began using a lot of oil I tried putting it on the centerstand and checking the oil level of that very hot engine upon arriving home by the conventional method and then checking it again next morning cold. I found the reading to be about the same when unscrewing the cold dipstick and reading it as it was checking it hot without screwing it in the night before. After first checking this proceedure again I did the same on my 81 CM400A, 85 CB650SC, 97 GS500 and current 02 GS500. The hot/cold readings are not exactly the same but it's close enough.
In this case with Phil B's bike I wouldn't drain the oil to fix an oil level problem, I'd put it on the centerstand cold and get a oil level reading and adjust it as required. Like I said above I never had a problem if the GS oil level was still on the flat part of the dipstick above the full mark. If overfull grab a piece of tubing and siphon some out. 65 years ago when I started wrenching on cars I didn't know a mechanic that didn'r know what oil and gasoline tasted like. Last time I tasted oil was when I overfilled a fork a bit on my current bike and needed to siphon some out, I wasn't going to pull the fork assembly to tip it and pour it out.
After getting the oil level close enough Phil you can look for the hard starting problem if you still have one.
Quote from: gsJack on November 08, 2012, 09:58:11 AM
65 years ago when I started wrenching on cars I didn't know a mechanic that didn'r know what oil and gasoline tasted like.
AMEN to that! Add Antifreeze to my list of "What does it taste like?" items...
Quote from: twinrat on November 07, 2012, 11:19:08 PM
How did you check your oil level with dipstick screwed in ,or screwed out and then dipped .SCREWED OUT AND DIP IS THE CORRECT WAY. i suspect you have overfilled and have created a friction problem through this ,it is quite noticable on low horse power engines. Next problem from overfilling is blown oil seals.BIKE MUST BE VERTICAL AND NOT ON SIDE STAND.
Yeah, I did it "the proper way".
I happen to have acquired a cheapie little table for workbench purposes at a garage sale, so I had it next to me holding the new oil, etc. as I topped it up.
I guess I got a little impatient and put too much at the final stage.
Quote from: salamander on November 07, 2012, 07:06:11 PM
twocool's right ... absolutely. The minor annoyance of having to deal with the oil level now is well worth avoiding the major annoyance (and expense) of dealing with real damage later. If you don't want to drain everything, use a big syringe and some tubing, or a turkey baster to remove some oil through the filler mouth.
oo, this is sounding promising. It appeals to my "cheap, practical, and no mess" side :D
Have you done this before? Could you possibly show me a picture of what looks like the right size/style turkey baster, and then I can copy it to the wiki page as well?
Practical? ... yeah, it works. Cheap? ... definitely. No mess? ... you're dealing with oil, so maybe not if you're as clumsy as me. :)
Sorry ... don't have any pics. If you want to go the baster route, you just need something that will fit through the filler opening and all the down to the oil level.