i love ptwins. rode a versys 650 this weekend again, very nice ptwin power.
what do you folks think about the three versions honda has released for 2013 ?
http://powersports.honda.com/2013/cb500f.aspx
the r doesnt interest me, but the f and x.... oh my.
this might push suzuki into an upgrade...
way to be a total duck, honda.
Though it is great to see more movement to little sport twins other than the dang ninjette.
shite, i really want one.
weird thing: its a square engine. That's a little funky, It will probably be torquier, but lower power than the gs' oversquare. I do not know why they made this choice.
Lower modified power potential is likely, though at 428 lbs it may not be too much of a problem.
That F is pretty sexy.
Can't find where it says how much power they're running.
Kinda worries me since their NC700 is so low on power.
Just saw the link on Honda. f%$k yes! I want one of each.
Methinks it might even give Hondas own NX700 range a run for its money
With the loss of the GS500 and the Ninja 500, I think Honda jumped in to fill the void.
The GS is not dead... its just 3rd instead of 2nd now in 500 CC bikes... wish they would of made it a 500CC 4 banger though.
Cool! That 500x with ABS may be my next bike! Good job Honda. I hope Suzuki does something about this to stay competitive.
Dying to jump on a fuel injected bike :mad:
Nice looking bike!
Did it "kill" the gs500?
not at $6000, it didnt :-p
very nice bike. would love to ride it. (the cbr600r sounds great for me)
aint gonna pay $6000 for one though.
Quote from: Phil B on November 12, 2012, 05:58:29 PM
Did it "kill" the gs500?
not at $6000, it didnt :-p
very nice bike. would love to ride it. (the cbr600r sounds great for me)
aint gonna pay $6000 for one though.
Bingo...Just picked up a GS for 500 bucks...For 6k ill buy a new bike and car. Not one overpriced bike.
The GS is already dead. Ninja 500 is dead. If there really is a 500 niche, Honda just filled it.
Quote from: Paulcet on November 12, 2012, 07:02:39 PM
The GS is already dead. Ninja 500 is dead. If there really is a 500 niche, Honda just filled it.
+1. GS has been dead for at least 3 years now. Though, as stated earlier, maybe we'll see a resurgence now that Honda has put a 500 twin out there. Hopefully Suzuki doesn't make it look like the Gladius though.
That white CB500F is pretty sweet. I've been thinking of repainting my black 97 white. $6000 is a little steep for a 500 though.
Edit: $5500 for nonABS is still a little much, though the FI, digital instruments, and 160 rear are nice touches. Plus the sweet white paint job.
not usually a fan of Hondas, but I don't mind this one, only in black though. would I buy one? probably not, I'll stick to Suzukis for the time being.
(http://images.motorcycle-usa.com/PhotoGallerys/xlarge/13_CBR500R_WhtBluRed.jpg)
47 hp
32 lb/ft torque
Fuel Injected
I don't see my GS lasting another year in the garage.
My GS500F was replaced with a Ninja 250R, I had plans on replacing that with a 39 HP EFI Ninja 300....with the Honda showing up :dunno_black:
(http://home.comcast.net/~stykers/ninja06.jpg)
I gave great consideration to the cbr250r when it came out but a 250cc single seemed like too big a step backwards. Had the 2008 Ninja 250 been fuel injected I would have bought one.
Quote47 hp
32 lb/ft torque
Fuel Injected
those are nice numbers, got a bunch of torque for sure. We'll just have to see how it handles i suppose.
My final verdict: It WONT kill the GS. The cb500 does not look like the platform that will lend itself to letting the user f%$k-with-it-to-death. I find that GS owners are that kind of group, I am. Who wants to ride a bike that you can't disassemble every weekend and rejet/re-exhaust/chop up/tinker/ridicufy? :dunno_black:
we will see what the future holds. maybe the GS's will run strong, maybe I'll be coming to CBTwins.com in a couple years... :tongue2:
I quite like the look of all three, but I wouldn't "upgrade" to one after having a GS....
Any idea how much they will be in Australia? I can see it being too overpriced for what they are though so I doubt it will "kill" the GS. I still believe the GS is the best and most reasonably priced first bike/commuter out there and I think it would take Honda some time to take that title....
I spoke to my old stealer in Dubbo (Nothing for Honda anywhere I could find in 5 minutes) about them. Apart from them being complete arseholes, they wouldn't give me a definite price. "Somewhere in the 10,000 range" was the response, and then was told that the Goldwing was awesome.
I won't buy a Honda as the dealer there is a scumbag, his mechanic is a scumbag, and everyone who goes in there says they're all scumbags, but hopefully this puts a boot up Suzukis backside and gets them to update the GS.
See one more reason why I think suzuki missed a huge opportunity by not ever contacting gstwin ...
Crowd sourcing ... I think they could ahve done it before there was a word for it.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: Funderb on November 12, 2012, 10:58:31 PMThe cb500 does not look like the platform that will lend itself to letting the user f%$k-with-it-to-death. I find that GS owners are that kind of group, I am. Who wants to ride a bike that you can't disassemble every weekend and rejet/re-exhaust/chop up/tinker/ridicufy? :dunno_black:
Are you completely bonkers ? The only reason people chopimodify the GS500 is BECAUSE it has so many weaknesses in the first place.
One thing for sure ~ Honda is about to show Suzuki whether or not a modern replacement for the GS500 would sell or not.
Horsepower and Torque specs are pretty similar to the GS, so it's not going to be significantly more powerful, although it may rev up a bit faster having more modern engine architecture :dunno_black:
Interesting that it is only about $1500 more than the GS500 was new ~ that's excellent if the bike feels more sophisticated, even if it's not a lot faster. For me, although I have a true appreciation for the simplicity of the GS500, it's agricultural plainness is sometimes less endearing compared to a lot of other bikes. A back-to-back ride on a GS500 and an FZ6R reminds you how much you like the light weight of the GS500, but get on the FZ6R and you are instantly gobsmacked by much more refined it is, with considerably more power.
Anyway, unlike the CBR250 and Ninja300/400, I am actually pretty keen on the CBR500. I won't be buying one anytime soon, but it will still be interesting to see it when it comes out.
In a couple years, the prices on those new hondas will probably make them easily available as used commuter bikes... If I wasn't looking to move into the 600-650 range next season I'd be thinking hard about them and probably waiting out the price drop on my GS
QuoteAre you completely bonkers ? The only reason people chopimodify the GS500 is BECAUSE it has so many weaknesses in the first place.
chicken or egg?
Quote from: Funderb on November 13, 2012, 09:51:55 AM
QuoteAre you completely bonkers ? The only reason people chopimodify the GS500 is BECAUSE it has so many weaknesses in the first place.
chicken or egg?
I think you were bonkers, and then you bought a GS500 :kiss3:
yeah, there's not a whole lot of evidence in this world that contradicts that statement.
Honda selling the CB400 with vtec didn't kill the GS500 down here. Hurt sales, but didn't killed it. Price comparison... brand new CB400 around $10k - $11k, brand new naked GS500 around $6.5k - $6.9k.
Honda made more sales on the CB400 because most rider training schools use them. So... go learn to ride at a Honda rider school, then buy a bike like what you just learned on. Suzuki has no rider training schemes.
Michael
Quote from: SAFE-T on November 13, 2012, 09:38:14 AM
Are you completely bonkers ? The only reason people chopimodify the GS500 is BECAUSE it has so many weaknesses in the first place.
I'll add my 3 cents worth (inflation) tohow dumb that statement is/was/hasbeen/will be.
I bought the GS500:
1. I didn't want a big, heavy bike. My last bike was an earyly 80's CB650.
2. The GS500 and Ninja 500 were both on sale for $4000 at the same dealer (also dealer had Kawasaki and Yamaha)
3. Sat on both. Liked the feel of the GS over the Ninja
4. Liked the white, full fairing over the Ninja
Only after buying it did I start to farkle it up. Only then did I learn that lots of cool parts
a) were no longer available
b) had to be bought in Europe
c) lots of people do shock changes and jetting "just because" and many things are a fad, done for no real reason so since mine run fine, I spend time on the cosmetics and left things working because they were working fine or me.
Anyway, I bought a couple more and enjoy them all.
two different markets IMO, the GS500 is for those like many of us here, you want something you can not only ride but maintain yourself. I see the Honda as something for those that still want a smaller, lighter and comfortable bike, but are chasing something they don't necessarily want to maintain themselves. an important decision when I buy my next bike, which will probably have EFI, is how much I can do myself. IF that means removing some choices from the pool, then so be it, there are others that would keep them in the pool of choices since they have no intention of doing their own work. each to their own. I don't see this cannabalising the GS500 market, but I do see it making a dent.
Suzuki doesn't need any help killing the GS...they've been letting it whither away for years.
Just spoke to a Honda Salesman...
We won't see it in Australia until about March 2013. He said as far as he knows they will not be killing off the CB400 though there will be a price reduction and he think the new 500 might be in the $8,500 range - although, that could also have been the new price for the CB400, he wasn't clear which bike would be in that price. PLUS, he thinks we will only be getting the F and R version - hence why the CB400 will remain, to please the naked people.
With Honda having a CB400 and a 500, Suzuki had wanna be having something up their sleeve. Cause that would truly be the end of the GS's sales down here.
My money is on a sneak arrival of a new GS500 version of the Inazuma 250.
Michael
Quote from: ThatOtherGuy on November 13, 2012, 02:03:13 PM
two different markets IMO, the GS500 is for those like many of us here, you want something you can not only ride but maintain yourself. I see the Honda as something for those that still want a smaller, lighter and comfortable bike, but are chasing something they don't necessarily want to maintain themselves. an important decision when I buy my next bike, which will probably have EFI, is how much I can do myself. IF that means removing some choices from the pool, then so be it, there are others that would keep them in the pool of choices since they have no intention of doing their own work. each to their own. I don't see this cannabalising the GS500 market, but I do see it making a dent.
I would agree here. I have YZF 600R that I bought as an upgrade to the GS. It is a really nice bike, but I kind of miss riding the GS (I still own the GS but have not ridden it since I bought the YZF in 2008). I am planning on getting the GS going again and selling one of my bikes. I am strongly considering selling the YZF and keeping the GS. One of the main reasons is that maintaining the YZF is a pain in the ass. Pulling the fairings off for everything takes forever, plus tabs are starting to snap off which will mean I will either need to replace the fairings or streetfighter the bike eventually.
Owning and maintaining the GS is so much easier and cheaper than the YZF, plus it is almost as fun in the twisties. I don't group ride very much and rarely worry about keeping up with others, so the extra power of the 600 I4 is kind of a moot point. Plus, I'm looking at getting a cruiser to ride the wife around on, so will probably keep the GS as a second bike/commuter for the easier maintenance and cheaper insurance, plus the YZF will pull more cash in a private sale.
Well, I'm not going to debate the relative merits of the GS500 with someone who has 27 of them in his garage LOL. The bike is what it is ~ like it for what charm it has or move along.
The #1 complaint about the GS500 with it's ancestral mechanical roots has always been that it's just a little too agricultural. If a CBR500 does what the GS does but with added refinement, I would say it might soundly trump the Suzuki.
But knowing Honda it will be so docile and bland no-one will actually like it.
Must be a difficult path for an engineer ~ too coarse and people will say it's junk; too smooth and people will say it has no soul.
Quote from: Funderb on November 12, 2012, 10:58:31 PM
My final verdict: It WONT kill the GS. The cb500 does not look like the platform that will lend itself to letting the user f%$k-with-it-to-death. I find that GS owners are that kind of group, I am. Who wants to ride a bike that you can't disassemble every weekend and rejet/re-exhaust/chop up/tinker/ridicufy? :dunno_black:
Umm... *raises hand* :)
While I feel somewhat of a sense of achievement in learning mechanical skills I never had..
I *really* would have been Just Fine, if my bike had just kept on running. I like the gs, because it's cheap, reliable, economical and fun. (and looks decent, and is comfy for me)
but obviously, there are all different types of gs owners :D
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on November 12, 2012, 07:57:15 PM
My GS500F was replaced with a Ninja 250R, I had plans on replacing that with a 39 HP EFI Ninja 300....with the Honda showing up :dunno_black:
(http://home.comcast.net/~stykers/ninja06.jpg)
How can you replace a 500 with a 250??!?
Heres a better replacement (http://www.ktm.com/uploads/tx_ktmproduct/990_SMT_90_635.jpg)
And heres my favorite street KTM (http://www.ktm.com/uploads/tx_ktmproduct/RC8_R_90_635_02.jpg) For some reason it wont load the black one :(
Unless Suzuki do some serious upgrades to modernize the GS it will die! For too long all bike manufacturers have gotten away with jacking up prices without major change. Now we are starting to see major change with some new and hopefully exciting bikes coming out. Lets hope Suzuki keeps up
trouble is they've been dropping the price across the board killing the 2nd hand market. for example I was considering trading the GS500 for a smaller lighter bike for my wife that would also double as my commuter. based on the trade in values I was offered which I know are always lower than selling privately, I was just as well to keep it and just buy a bike outright for my wife which I did, which turned out better as it was not a compromise to suit both of us, it is just for her.
also heard of some dealers trading in Bandits to then find a week later they were worth $2,000 less due to drops in RRP and/or increases in rebates, $2,000 represents nearly 20% of a typical good condition sub 3yr Bandit from a dealer.
As a testament to how suzuki is killing the GS, right now, at 11:50 pm PT, you can't even view the GS500, OR any of their other motorcycles on their website OTHER than the crappy boulevard.
Jeese suzuki, way to just drive yourself into the ground.
I noticed that the US site doesn't even have the GS500 listed, and when you search for it, nothing shows up.
Maybe they're already onto something...?
Suzuki Aust had a small factory bonus on GS500s recently. But NOW, they are offering a $1,500 factory bonus off the price of GS500s! If that's not a push to get rid of old stock I don't know what is. I'll have to pop into a dealer and see what that equals in terms of ride away prices.
Michael
Quote from: Malfruen on November 14, 2012, 01:08:09 AM
I noticed that the US site doesn't even have the GS500 listed, and when you search for it, nothing shows up.
Maybe they're already onto something...?
When was the GS500 last listed on the US site? I thought it was "killed off" by the 2010 EPA emissions requirements and wouldn't expect it to come back in it's current form, that is as a carbureted engine.
Quote from: SAFE-T on November 13, 2012, 09:38:14 AM
Quote from: Funderb on November 12, 2012, 10:58:31 PMThe cb500 does not look like the platform that will lend itself to letting the user f%$k-with-it-to-death. I find that GS owners are that kind of group, I am. Who wants to ride a bike that you can't disassemble every weekend and rejet/re-exhaust/chop up/tinker/ridicufy? :dunno_black:
Are you completely bonkers ? The only reason people chopimodify the GS500 is BECAUSE it has so many weaknesses in the first place.
I dont think so ... I think its a damn good bike with a few flaws and the flaws depend on what kind of rider you are ... making it sort of perfect ...
Example: I am a commuter. I want cheap tires and no chain to replace ... Belt drive and a 15" rear tar.
You may be a racer. You want power, bigger and better and stickier rubber and USD suspension. You need a 4 valve head and USD FE and GSXR back wheel.
The fact that we can both start off as a GS and have what we want in the end speaks for the GS being one damn fine average for everyone.
I want FI cos it usually means better gas mileage. Water cooling too, makes it all a full on better and easier bike to own on a TCO basis.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: MarkB on November 14, 2012, 07:12:10 AM
Quote from: Malfruen on November 14, 2012, 01:08:09 AM
I noticed that the US site doesn't even have the GS500 listed, and when you search for it, nothing shows up.
Maybe they're already onto something...?
When was the GS500 last listed on the US site? I thought it was "killed off" by the 2010 EPA emissions requirements and wouldn't expect it to come back in it's current form, that is as a carbureted engine.
I last saw the GS500s on suzukicycles.com when the 2009 model years were available (sometime in 2011). When the 2012 models came out, they dropped 2009, and the earliest was 2010.
I was told by a Suzuki rep 2 years ago that due to the economy and gluttony of inventory, they quit making the GS500 since they still have loads of them. I'm sure emissions had to do with that too, but some bikes are still carbed. Look at the KLR650, the Boulevard S40. I'm sure the EPA has some complex formula like "Mufti-cylinder internal combustion engines with CCs greater than X...."
Poking around on the EPA site, the emissions requirements are pretty straightforward, but they apparently allow averaging across production models. They also have data posted for all the bikes they've tested and it looks like the KLR just makes the standard, the GS500 is about 125% over and the S40/LS650 is more than 200% of the standard.
Requirements: http://www.epa.gov/oms/standards/light-duty/motorcycles.htm
Test Results: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/crttst.htm
Averaging Provisions in section 86.449: http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=acb441c51ea843be92efff1c845ed8f6&n=40y19.0.1.1.2&r=PART&ty=HTML
Quote from: iclrag on November 13, 2012, 10:42:55 PM
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on November 12, 2012, 07:57:15 PM
My GS500F was replaced with a Ninja 250R, I had plans on replacing that with a 39 HP EFI Ninja 300....with the Honda showing up :dunno_black:
How can you replace a 500 with a 250??!?
Well....first you go buy a Ninja 250, then you ethier keep the 500 or sell it :thumb:
I sold mine, cuz I have more FUN on the 250 :whisper:
I never said the GS500 was a pile of crap, just that it has lots of areas where it can be improved (otherwise known as 'weaknesses' LOL). Which is why so many people on this board have discussed jetting, air filters, spark plugs, exhaust, front sprockets, rear sprockets, windscreens, SV650 throttle tubes, R6 throttle tubes, luggage, Katana wheels, Bandit 400 wheels, Katana forks, GSXR forks, Progressive fork springs, Sonic fork springs, HyperPro fork springs, SV650 rear shocks, Katana 600 rear shocks, Katana 750 rear shocks, R6 rear shocks, gold valves, fork braces, GSXR footpegs, GSXR rearsets, CBR rearsets, Corbin seats, OEM clipons, aftermarket clipons, Suburban Machinery handlebars, flushmount signal lights, mirrors with integrated signal lights, led lights, integrated tail lights, etc etc
Quote from: DrtRydr23 on November 12, 2012, 07:07:13 PM
Quote from: Paulcet on November 12, 2012, 07:02:39 PM
The GS is already dead. Ninja 500 is dead. If there really is a 500 niche, Honda just filled it.
+1. GS has been dead for at least 3 years now. Though, as stated earlier, maybe we'll see a resurgence now that Honda has put a 500 twin out there. Hopefully Suzuki doesn't make it look like the Gladius though.
+100
Suzuki killed the GS. Seems while other manufactures resonated towards the small cc class Suzuki almost ignored it. Its kind of like what Honda did to the Civic...in my opinion, they basically lost the market they created (compact hatchback). With Kawi's 400 and new 300, Honda's new NC line, and others Suzuki seems to be sitting on their hands, or purposely ignoring this market. Time to upgrade soon and it won't be a Suzuki.
We don't get the Kawi 400 in the states. I see that Canada gets it though.
Honda 300 is same power as gs?
Well, if Suzuki was ignoring the market all the other manufacturers had shock therapy to forget it ever existed. Who else has had anything equivalent to the GS500 in North America for the past 20 yrs ?
Whoever thought a 400Ninja that was the same size and weight as the 650Ninja was a good idea for the North American motorcycle market needs to get a different job.
Kawasaki EX500 was pretty much direct competition with the GS500, and was killed after 2009 just like the GS.
Quote from: SAFE-T on November 14, 2012, 11:18:19 AM
I never said the GS500 was a pile of crap, just that it has lots of areas where it can be improved (otherwise known as 'weaknesses' LOL). Which is why so many people on this board have discussed jetting, air filters, spark plugs, exhaust, front sprockets, rear sprockets, windscreens, SV650 throttle tubes, R6 throttle tubes, luggage, Katana wheels, Bandit 400 wheels, Katana forks, GSXR forks, Progressive fork springs, Sonic fork springs, HyperPro fork springs, SV650 rear shocks, Katana 600 rear shocks, Katana 750 rear shocks, R6 rear shocks, gold valves, fork braces, GSXR footpegs, GSXR rearsets, CBR rearsets, Corbin seats, OEM clipons, aftermarket clipons, Suburban Machinery handlebars, flushmount signal lights, mirrors with integrated signal lights, led lights, integrated tail lights, etc etc
OK OK yikes ... most of these mods are never going to comply with DOT and epa and euro and asia and whatever standards ... like - jetting, air filters, spark plugs, exhaust, , flushmount signal lights, mirrors with integrated signal lights, led lights, integrated tail lights, etc etc ... never going to see it on a bike from the factory.
I am also nearly sure these - front sprockets, rear sprockets, - I dont want a 15 tooth, I would like it geared taller matter of fact, and there are some design consideration for the ratio, as well as EPA emmissions test that checks it @ some speed and rpm ...
Then there is these - SV650 throttle tubes, R6 throttle tubes more things mandated by DOT I think, cos on an R6 or sv650 these are not 1/5th turn, they are 1/4 turn ... every bike I have tried has a 1/4 turn ... as does a shifter on the left with 1 down and 2-x up pattern ... something has to mandate it somewhere ...
Then the wheels, suspension etc ... change what you want ... I want 15" rear wheel and belt drive as well as a twin disk FE, but I want long life out of it, not the same things you want I am sure.
Then bars and seats ... that is where most anyone wants something else ... people put risers (kerry and GSJack) to name just 2, I made and fit the drop bars on mine ... By no means is that universal ...
People modify what they want, hence its a beginner bike. The list of mods you put on is actually small compared to some others ... And I want the opposite of what you do ... I dont need wider tars or USD suspension.
Cool.
Buddha.
I want normal size tires and I don't care about USD forks on a GS500
I want a 160/17 rear tire and a 120/17 front tire. Brakes just slow you down and I hardly use mine as it is, so a single front disc is fine for me. I want modern cartridge forks with proper weight springs and damping. They don't even have to be adjustable if they are good out of the box. I want smooth shifting without false neutrals. I want EFI because it's getting harder to find someone to work on carbs, fuel-injection has been around for 50+ years already. I want gearing that allows me to travel at highway speed without doing 6,000+ rpm. I want lightweight and good gas mileage. And ABS, since even Rossi grabs too much brake now and then.
If the CBR500 can deliver all that at a decent price on the used market and I was looking for a smaller displacement fun bike, I would probably buy one over a GS500 in a heartbeat.
Hooray for you!
Now those people who want to spend 1500 bucks on a bike to learn on, drop, and enjoy, can buy a GS. The honda wont touch that for a few, maybe 10, years.
QuoteI want smooth shifting without false neutrals.
then don't buy a yamaha... :thumb: Never had a problem with that, on any bike i've owned. The GS actually has the BEST tranny, granted I tend to like classic bikes.
Honda makes good bikes for sure. The cb500F/R looks like the pair of bikes that everyone is trying to make the GS into when they do alter it.
My money is on the cb1100. Save a little more money, have a lot more bike, with all the trappings of my favorite old hondas.
:D
(http://s1.aecdn.com/images/news/gallery/2013-honda-cb1100-screams-classic-attitude_1.jpg)
http://powersports.honda.com/2013/cb1100.aspx
Quote from: Funderb on November 14, 2012, 05:50:42 PM
Hooray for you!
Now those people who want to spend 1500 bucks on a bike to learn on, drop, and enjoy, can buy a GS. The honda wont touch that for a few, maybe 10, years.
QuoteI want smooth shifting without false neutrals.
then don't buy a yamaha... :thumb: Never had a problem with that, on any bike i've owned. The GS actually has the BEST tranny, granted I tend to like classic bikes.
Honda makes good bikes for sure. The cb500F/R looks like the pair bikes that everyone is trying to make the GS into when they do alter it.
My money is on the cb1100. Save a little more money, have a lot more bike, with all the trappings of my favorite old hondas.
:D
(http://s1.aecdn.com/images/news/gallery/2013-honda-cb1100-screams-classic-attitude_1.jpg)
http://powersports.honda.com/2013/cb1100.aspx
that's a huge +1 for the smooth shifting gs500 transmission. the only bike i've ridden lately that reminds me of the gs's smooth shifting is...... the 2012 supertenere. that's -the- best transmission i've ever shifted, i think.
if i can fit on a cb500x like i can my drz, i'll be buying one. or a bmw 650, or a dr650... or a versys... or aa......
Quote from: SAFE-T on November 14, 2012, 11:18:19 AM
I never said the GS500 was a pile of crap, just that it has lots of areas where it can be improved (otherwise known as 'weaknesses' LOL). Which is why so many people on this board have discussed jetting, air filters, spark plugs, exhaust, front sprockets, rear sprockets, windscreens, SV650 throttle tubes, R6 throttle tubes, luggage, Katana wheels, Bandit 400 wheels, Katana forks, GSXR forks, Progressive fork springs, Sonic fork springs, HyperPro fork springs, SV650 rear shocks, Katana 600 rear shocks, Katana 750 rear shocks, R6 rear shocks, gold valves, fork braces, GSXR footpegs, GSXR rearsets, CBR rearsets, Corbin seats, OEM clipons, aftermarket clipons, Suburban Machinery handlebars, flushmount signal lights, mirrors with integrated signal lights, led lights, integrated tail lights, etc etc
"Improved" is not necessarily the term I would use for most of the modifications that people make on the GS. The only thing a GS really "needs" changed is typically stiffer front springs and maybe jetting....maybe. I think you can run stock jetting and be fine, just a little lean. I put 40 pilots in my carbs because people here said to, and I didn't notice any difference in cold starts or warm up time to be honest. Same thing with 125 mains and washers, no noticeable difference really, so I just went back to stock (except pilots).
All the other stuff (filters, bars, mirrors, signals,etc) are really matters of preference more than anything and not necessity or improvements on a bike that is considered a standard. You buy a GS500 looking for a race bike and you've got the wrong machine. You may make it sportier with mods, but it's still not a race bike. Same with touring, or whatever else people want to use it for. Hell, I wouldn't have even changed the bars if mine hadn't been bent (which gave me an excuse more than anything else).
Nothing against modding, I just don't think it "needs" as many mods as much as people "want" to mod it for their specific purpose, be it looks, performance, or whatever.
Y'all seen this 250 yet. I wouldn't mind if they based a new GS off of it.
http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Cycles/Products/GW250/2013/GW250.aspx#Specs
Looks like a baby B-King to me.
(http://www.motorbeam.com/wp-content/uploads/2013-Suzuki-GW250.jpg)
Well, the person who only has $1500 or only wants to spend $1500 on a motorcycle is not the same person that would consider the CBR500.
But if we were talking a $4500 2009 GS500 (new) versus a $5999 2013 CBR500 (new) there's something to think about ~ your $1500 extra gets a bike that's 4 yrs. newer with everything you could want from the GS500 plus all the things it doesn't have, including ABS. Which makes it a lot more valuable in my books.
Quote from: DrtRydr23 on November 14, 2012, 06:19:38 PM"Improved" is not necessarily the term I would use for most of the modifications that people make on the GS.
Point taken. Some things are modifications which improve the bike, addressing certain weaknesses or perceived weaknesses. Others are merely alterations.
:thumb:
Quote from: bombsquad83 on November 14, 2012, 11:51:23 AM
Kawasaki EX500 was pretty much direct competition with the GS500, and was killed after 2009 just like the GS.
If I recall, sales of that bike were stellar as well :wink:
Quote from: GI_JO_NATHAN on November 14, 2012, 06:46:14 PM
Y'all seen this 250 yet. I wouldn't mind if they based a new GS off of it.
http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Cycles/Products/GW250/2013/GW250.aspx#Specs
Looks like a baby B-King to me.
I wish they'd redesign the Gladius (SFV650) to look a bit more like the B-King. I'd be more apt to consider it as my next bike if the looks weren't so......iffy. Maybe a slightly bigger tank too, but I'm a bit off topic here. An FI GS that looks like the GW250 would be cool, but I'm not really in the market for another 500 twin anyways. I'm still considering a SFV650 though. I've seen good reviews about it's fun factor and motor, which is all I'd want it for anyways except for some commuting.
Edit to remove the image from the quote.
Right on AdidasGuy.
Quote from: SAFE-T on November 14, 2012, 08:03:06 PM
Well, the person who only has $1500 or only wants to spend $1500 on a motorcycle is not the same person that would consider the CBR500.
But if we were talking a $4500 2009 GS500 (new) versus a $5999 2013 CBR500 (new) there's something to think about ~ your $1500 extra gets a bike that's 4 yrs. newer with everything you could want from the GS500 plus all the things it doesn't have, including ABS. Which makes it a lot more valuable in my books.
4 years newer? Almost 24 years newer if we are brutally honest. I agree with the pros regarding the simplicity of the GS though.
Quote from: GI_JO_NATHAN on November 14, 2012, 06:46:14 PM
Y'all seen this 250 yet. I wouldn't mind if they based a new GS off of it.
http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Cycles/Products/GW250/2013/GW250.aspx#Specs
Looks like a baby B-King to me.
(http://www.motorbeam.com/wp-content/uploads/2013-Suzuki-GW250.jpg)
That headlght is ... disgusting. Looks like a boob job gone horribly horribly bad.
Round and simple. I'd want a modern GS with everything else the same as the 89. Heck I'd even take that old ridged tank ...
OK fine the 01 and later tank is fine too. But no fairing ... naked and FI'ed baby.
Cool.
Buddha.
I've been interested in the CBR250R since it came out a couple years ago but really prefer a naked old style standard bike. Suzuki to the rescue, I have it on my desktop already so I won't forget it. :icon_lol:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/GW250.jpg)
I don't call it an entry level bike, I prefer to call it exit level.
do you think honda would just sell me the engine? Thats pretty much all I want.
Quote from: Funderb on November 15, 2012, 10:20:51 AM
do you think honda would just sell me the engine? Thats pretty much all I want.
Dude the motor you want already exists ... a smaller lighter more modern and powerfuller GS right, and with no problems by design ? FI maybe ?
Yes yank a motor out of a raptor 700 atv ... :icon_twisted: ... My mz if it dont get up and run this week, I am going to be so hunting for raptors ... the 700 is 4 valve and past 05 they were FI. The 660 is 5 valve and carbed ... and that's what mine is ...
The MZ660 skorpion - look it up, bloody thing even looks like a GS. I also believe it can be made cheaper than a GS ... I think.
BTW of late, I suspect its cheaper to do FI on a bike than carb. Have you see the multitude of machined junk on a carb ... and worst of all, no one buys carb parts from the factory any more. A FI is just 1 part with some whiz bang electronics ... and you cant get one from anywhere except the factory.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: adidasguy on November 15, 2012, 10:59:15 AM
Quote from: Gemini on November 14, 2012, 08:51:43 PM
Right on AdidasGuy.
What did I say? :dunno_black:
Shhhh dont ask ... just say thanks thanks and move on. You guys did legalise pot after all, so that maybe what he was talking about. Pity ... in the south it grows a lot better than it would up there ...
Cool.
Buddha.
I don't mind that GW250. Depends on whether next year I replace the Bandit with another Bandit or similar tourer and the GS500 with a GW250 (for commuting only) or move the Bandit to commuting and trade the GS500 for a new tourer?
The more I look at that GW250, the more I don't like how it looks. I don't like the chromed headers. I also don't like the exhaust. Something about it looks cheap. I think it's the screws holding the heat shield on. Too many shiny things on a bike with that kind of face. Even then engine is halfway polished.
I didnt even know honda came out with that bike. Man is it sweet. I dont think i will ever get rid of my GS, however there is room in my garage for that honda.
I have been looking at a bike like that for a while and the closest thing I came across was the ninja 500 and the GS. If that was around when I was looking I might not own the bike that I have today.
Quote from: The Buddha on November 15, 2012, 11:01:55 AM
Quote from: adidasguy on November 15, 2012, 10:59:15 AM
Quote from: Gemini on November 14, 2012, 08:51:43 PM
Right on AdidasGuy.
What did I say? :dunno_black:
Shhhh dont ask ... just say thanks thanks and move on. You guys did legalise pot after all, so that maybe what he was talking about. Pity ... in the south it grows a lot better than it would up there ...
Cool.
Buddha.
I've heard good things about BC Bud :icon_rolleyes: and northern Washington is right up there..... :icon_eek:
Quote from: bombsquad83 on November 15, 2012, 12:24:24 PM
The more I look at that GW250, the more I don't like how it looks. I don't like the chromed headers. I also don't like the exhaust. Something about it looks cheap. I think it's the screws holding the heat shield on. Too many shiny things on a bike with that kind of face. Even then engine is halfway polished.
Too many bikes today are designed by a 5 year old with their play-school CAD toy which is incapable of drawing smooth curves and clean lines. Things are all jagged, chopped up, disjointed. Bling stuck on because you can - not because you should.
Too many have the butt way up in the air and look like someone squished a wasp.
Gone are the clean lines of the early 80-s when plastic came into use and designers really went for good style. Like this:
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb442/adidasguy/Assorted/5I65G55M23Kb3L13N7c4hc942b5b828a918e8.jpg)
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb442/adidasguy/Assorted/mg7746.jpg)
Quote from: The Buddha on November 15, 2012, 10:50:10 AM
The MZ660 skorpion - look it up, bloody thing even looks like a GS.
Cool.
Buddha.
Interesting..
(http://www.smartcarguide.com/listimg/img1_1212/25/img_4677383_00.jpg)
Quote from: GI_JO_NATHAN on November 15, 2012, 03:46:37 PM
Quote from: The Buddha on November 15, 2012, 10:50:10 AM
The MZ660 skorpion - look it up, bloody thing even looks like a GS.
Cool.
Buddha.
Interesting..
(http://www.smartcarguide.com/listimg/img1_1212/25/img_4677383_00.jpg)
whoa what holds that engine up!
Quote from: SAFE-T on November 14, 2012, 08:03:06 PM
Well, the person who only has $1500 or only wants to spend $1500 on a motorcycle is not the same person that would consider the CBR500.
But if we were talking a $4500 2009 GS500 (new) versus a $5999 2013 CBR500 (new) there's something to think about ~ your $1500 extra gets a bike that's 22 years newer engineeringwith everything you could want from the GS500 plus all the things it doesn't have, including ABS. Which makes it a lot more valuable in my books.
22 years of engineering change, improvements, materials, and knowledge, for $1500.
... i fixed it for you. :-)
Quote from: BassWoW on November 15, 2012, 04:20:06 PM
Quote from: GI_JO_NATHAN on November 15, 2012, 03:46:37 PM
Quote from: The Buddha on November 15, 2012, 10:50:10 AM
The MZ660 skorpion - look it up, bloody thing even looks like a GS.
Cool.
Buddha.
Interesting..
(http://www.smartcarguide.com/listimg/img1_1212/25/img_4677383_00.jpg)
whoa what holds that engine up!
That motor is only about as heavy as a cinderblock - no kidding.
Its held in place by a hanger @ the head, a short unboltable pipe section of the frame and the usual GS style mounts in the back.
IMHO the sport version has a better tail section - split seat etc, but the FE of this is nicer.
The bike has a dry sump, front suspension is a paioli 41mm, brakes are grimeca/brembo, has 4.5 rear and 3.25 front if I recall, and overall, you work on a GS for 22 years, you will still end up short of this.
BTW its a 100mm bore 5 valve yamaha raptor motor in that, easy to find a donor, one lying round on my local CL for 600.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: GI_JO_NATHAN on November 15, 2012, 04:53:46 PM
Quote from: BassWoW on November 15, 2012, 04:20:06 PM
Quote from: GI_JO_NATHAN on November 15, 2012, 03:46:37 PM
Quote from: The Buddha on November 15, 2012, 10:50:10 AM
The MZ660 skorpion - look it up, bloody thing even looks like a GS.
Cool.
Buddha.
Interesting..
whoa what holds that engine up!
Magic...
Same magic holds my engine up but with German common sense. lol
(http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/402502_10151291165704879_1401406356_n.jpg)
You did not just use German and Common Sense in the same sentence :D
Quote from: mustangGT90210 on November 18, 2012, 07:10:38 PM
You did not just use German and Common Sense in the same sentence :D
This. It seems to me that they lacked anything resembling common sense when it came to the 2.0 liter engine that is in my girlfriend's Beetle.
BTW, the same magic will support the engine of my '87 XV535 project when I get it put back together.
Quote from: GI_JO_NATHAN on November 14, 2012, 06:46:14 PM
Y'all seen this 250 yet. I wouldn't mind if they based a new GS off of it.
http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Cycles/Products/GW250/2013/GW250.aspx#Specs
Looks like a baby B-King to me.
I like the look, personally.
However, the specs link you give, doesnt give some of the most important specs.
24 hp and 29.5 ft-lb(at the crank)
http://blog.motorcycle.com/2012/10/30/motorcycle-news/suzuki-gw250-inazuma-reportedly-coming-to-canada/
Quote from: Phil B on November 18, 2012, 08:58:19 PM
I like the look, personally.
However, the specs link you give, doesnt give some of the most important specs.
24 hp and 29.5 ft-lb(at the crank)
http://blog.motorcycle.com/2012/10/30/motorcycle-news/suzuki-gw250-inazuma-reportedly-coming-to-canada/
Nice!
I didn't realize the TU only has around 15hp. And everyone seems pretty happy with it.
So the Inazuma should be pretty fun.
Quote from: mustangGT90210 on November 18, 2012, 07:10:38 PM
You did not just use German and Common Sense in the same sentence :D
Oh yes I did I'll say it again German common sense. Oh shaZam! I said it I said it. And to be clear I don't consider the beetle a car. I will acknowledge the 911 though, yes I know where it's traced to. But I still wouldn't buy one.
Quote from: mustangGT90210 on November 18, 2012, 07:10:38 PM
You did not just use German and Common Sense in the same sentence :D
Its sorta common sense-ical ... till you realise that by years and years of bring around jap junk you're idea of common sense is somewhat twisted.
The MZ has somethigns going for it ... 5 valve motor with threaded adjusters, a 2 carb setup which make for great rideability ... all of which is jap sourced though, Yamaha XTZ motor, but the german parts of it are well good or bad depending on your perspective ... gas tank is plastic ... so will never rust, but the stupid cap takes in water ... the frame wont let you take the valve cover off ... the tail section is huge compared to the GS ... really no need for it to be so ...
Anyway its a damn cool bike ...
Mine is a sport. That blue one up in this thread is a tour.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on November 19, 2012, 02:47:34 PM
Mine is a sport. That blue one up in this thread is a tour.
Cool.
Buddha.
(http://www.singlecellracing.com/images/stockbike.jpg)
Suzuki Inazuma..oh, I do so look forward to owning a Chinese bike at last. It's sorta like that Thai built Honda car I've strenuously avoided buying after years of being a customer of that company.