Okay guys so I pulled the right side cover off to take a look in there. The part adidasguy said to look at was totally firm and didn't move a centimeter. I played around with everything and only the one gear in the following video moved. Let me know what you guys think. Should I open up the left side next?
New video:
http://youtube.com/watch?feature=plcp&v=3MsIpp0aQY4
Original:
http://youtube.com/watch?feature=plcp&v=IV1lNTFz8Dk
My vote, time to find a replacement
IMO, there is a whole lot of things that are going to make that sound but a rod getting slapped around on the crank.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV1lNTFz8Dk
Remember to remove the "m." to view videos on firefox. Copy and paste the link then delete the "m." as in:
http://youtube.com/watch?feature=plcp&v=IV1lNTFz8Dk
Doesn't have that ringing sound of the balancer bearing.
You might remove the valve cover and look for a cracked or loose cam journal.
Running out of gas would not cause that. Was it low on oil?
Did your friend drop or otherwise abuse the bike in any way?
Is the sound only when in neutral? You can put on the center stand and see if it goes away when in gear.
Try using a hose to your ear like a stethoscope and isolate the location of the sound as best you can.
Quote from: Shadow Camaro on November 28, 2012, 03:21:42 PM
Okay guys so I pulled the right side cover off to take a look in there. The part adidasguy said to look at was totally firm and didn't move a centimeter. I played around with everything and only the one gear in the following video moved. Let me know what you guys think. Should I open up the left side next?
New video:
http://youtube.com/watch?feature=plcp&v=3MsIpp0aQY4
Original:
http://youtube.com/watch?feature=plcp&v=IV1lNTFz8Dk
the first video sounds like a rod bearing. i'm surprised it gets quieter with more rpm's though. could be the oil pressure is masking it at higher rpm's, and the rod bearing is worn badly enough that lower pressures aren't improving the gap.
definitely not something i would ride, or run, for any length of time. sorry man.
Completely unrelated but:
It looked like in the first video that your PAIR system is removed but no block-off plates are installed?
Worn main bearings tend to make less noise when revved and worn rod bearings tend to make more noise when revved.
One thing is for certain though, its a bearing and you wont find or be in with a chance of rectifying the problem until the engine is out and in bits :dunno_black:
Quote from: sledge on November 30, 2012, 02:28:31 PM
Worn main bearings tend to make less noise when revved and worn rod bearings tend to make more noise when revved.
One thing is for certain though, its a bearing and you wont find or be in with a chance of rectifying the problem until the engine is out and in bits :dunno_black:
educated, ty sir!
Ok so what are the chances that I can open it up and fix the bearing and be fine? Or is it more likely that the expensive parts have to replaced? Unknowing I open it up, then at the very least I'll have to replace all gaskets, seals, and rings. Can anyone give me a list of these items? Or is there a kit that comes with everything?
You are better off replacing the engine.
Spun rod bearing mean bad crank journals and rods
Quote from: weedahoe on December 03, 2012, 11:30:57 AM
You are better off replacing the engine.
Spun rod bearing mean bad crank journals and rods
+1. You can get a bike with no title, or an engine alone for $150-$200. Swap out in a weekend, and RIDE. A good Winter project.
Where can I find an engine for cheap like that? They are all 700+ on eBay.
Post in Wanted/For sale section. Someone has one. Be patient, and you'll find one.
Also look on craigslist. Remember, it can be a whole bike with no title, as long as it runs.
Yeah, you gotta be patient and keep an eye on a lot of sites. The last one I bought I paid 400 and 150 to ship from ebay.
Shadow is talking to someone now on the for-sale/wanted section of this forum.
Well I have the motor out of the bike now guys. Bout to start breaking it down to see what's up on the inside. Haynes manual will be helping me out. Also, a local guy said he would sell me his entire 2004 gs500 for $300. Says the engine works, just has carb trouble. The fairings are all busted to hell tho due to its previous owner being a drinker driver. But he says he has no time for it so he will sell it to me for what he paid the drunken driver for it so $300. I've know him for almost a year now and he seems trustworthy and he never offered to sell it to me until I told him my motor might be done for. So what do you guys think? I figure that at the very least, I could part it out and easily make that $300 back.
Nothing to lose other than your time for $300. You can part it out for around that if needed.
Yeah, I would buy it for 300 but if all it had were carb issues I would fix it and sell it. That's assuming the title is clear
Sell his, fix the new one.
Use his motor in place of your trashed motor.
Good winter project. Problem solved.
More like a weekend project ;)
Well i dont like things to go to waste guys and i had already started on my own motor so i finished it up. Entire motor is in pieces and everything looks surprisingly awesome inside. Everything is pretty spic and span with one single exception. The right piston rod bearing looks a little weird. I will add a picture of this phenomenon. However, I really just do not seeing this being a huge problem, at least not the kind of problem that would make the sound i have been hearing. Take a look at the attached photo:
(http://s9.postimage.org/n2e9kx04f/IMG_0506.jpg)
I also have a picture of the pistons themselves. Seem normal, if not pretty dirty. I know you can tell a lot from the way the carbon deposits are shaped and all but im not sure what to look for:
(http://s10.postimage.org/3qdyyx3bd/IMG_0507.jpg)
So at this point, i can only think that maybe it is the rod bearing. However, like i said, it just doesnt seem like such a small thing could cause my problem. Literally, the entire motor is apart and everything looks awesome. The only thing that was not taken out was the valves. Should we look in to these as well? could those be a possible cause of my problem? Any help would be greatly appreciated guys. Im ordering a new gasket set tonight and then hopefully whatever new parts i need tomorrow.. Thanks in advance!
Wow. That is quite the project. That's a bit beyond me (bearings) so ill defer.
Weed, with my schedule that would be a winter project.
Sir, I'm going to need you to work on your time management skills ;)
As for the bearings, if you can see the copper in the bearings then the coating has been worn off and they are no good.
Uneven wear patterns on shell bearings are usually indicative of something being misaligned or out of true. This could be something as simple as an incorrectly torqued cap all the way up to a bent or incorrectly machined crank/rod/case/cylinder.....or just about everything else :dunno_black:
Some info in this guide. Sec 9.7
http://epaper.mahle.com/mc/onlineCatalogue/2062863636375&lang=en
I am looking hard at the lower cap in the first pic.......Maybe its just the pic but compared to the top cap it looks like its tapering upwards!!!.
Please take a look at your starter clutch, there are three bolts in the back of the starter clutch "plate" where it is bolted to the gear. http://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/suzuki-gs500-2001-2002-usa-starter-clutch_bigsuusa92664_0123.gif
If those three bolts get loose (they do a lot of times), they can make that sound.
I know from experience:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/8528/lgim0010x.jpg
Gasket set is on the way guys. Will also be replacing the rod bearings. Also, thanks for the starter clutch hint. I'll look in to that. I figure that if the problem isn't some type of mechanical failure then it must be a loose part, in which case the problem should be solved upon reassembly since I'll be torquing every bolt to specs.
I have a feeling that Friction Burn is right. Good luck with your reassembly.
Hey guys should I replace the rod bearings for both piston rods? Or just the damaged bearing? Thanks.
Just a humble opinion....
Given the effort required to crack open the engine....
....while you are in there replace EVERY bearing you can. If you have to ask or are unsure --- replace that bearing.
Do you ever want to have to go back in there again?
Or would you like to have the equivalent of a brand new motor?
And I'd hone the cylinders and replace the piston rings, too.
Addidas said everything I was going to say. Treat it like a full rebuild.
There is just one problem with that idea. The con-rods, have by now been "stretched" a fair bit, so they are weaker then when the bike was new. Replacing piston rings, valves etc, will make the "bang" harder than it is right now. Now I know I am going to get sniped for this, but this opinion is based on multiple engine rebuilds (GS500's and GS450's).
I would replace only the damaged bearings, these engines have the capability (when treated right) to make the odo go round and round, without replacing bearings. Replacing all the bearings, piston rings, honing, will cost a pretty penny. The fact of the matter is, most parts have been "stretched" by use, so the idea of getting the equivalent of a brand new motor, no way. These -are- Japanese bikes, the materials used are for one thing; cheap.
Just my opninion, based on experience.
OK. I'll ask. How can the connecting rods get stretched?
Nothing pulls on them. Piston firing pushes down on the connecting rods. Exhaust cycle pushes up on the piston. Compression cycle pushes on the piston. So with all cycles pushing on the piston and crank, how would the connecting rods get stretched? Seems they would get compressed - but given the hardness of the steel and the size of them, not sure how mush they could possibly compress (or stretch).
And it seems quite common to hone the cylinders and replace the piston rings and never worry about stretched connecting rods. You do that for low compression and never heard you had to replace the connecting rods.
`Stretch` is the term given when the big-end journal looses its concentricity. Its diameter becomes larger along the rods length than it is across it.
We are talking a couple of thou` at most and you simply wont see it by eye.
Sledge got it :wink:
The conrod gets veeery small cracks in it due to use, now whats going to happen;
You are going to give the engine its original compression due to bored cilinders and new piston rings. So you are going to put extra stress on a conrod (and the rest of the block for that matter) that have already been run for quite a while, and are already (possibly) microcracked.
So in a newstate;
-New connecting rods
-Good compression, good bang
After a while;
-Little bit tired connecting rods
-Medium compression, little bit less bang
When old;
-Tired connecting rod
-Lower compression, measurable decrease in rear wheel HP
When replacing bore / rings
-Tired connecting rod / engine material.
-Compression like new, power like new.
Now anyway you put it, you are going to load old engine halves / conrods (the conrods was just an example), with new (more) power.
Not trying to take the piss on anyone here, have just heard this "replace x and y, and have new engine" forum advice before. If you want a new engine, closest you can get without -getting a new engine- is replacing all the rotating parts, and because that is way to expensive, people usually run there engines till death and buy a replacement. (which in the current form of production, is the best way).
Shadow Camaro; if you are going down this "total rebuild" road, please make sure your oilpump is still up to spec pressure, because people tend to forget, those wear down too.
Good luck ;)
Thanks for all the advice guys. But hey, I was wondering about that starter clutch advice. When I was disassembling the engine, it didn't seem like there were any loose bolts anywhere. If the starter clutch bolts were loose, or any other bolts for that matter, would it have been obvious when I was taking the engine apart?
The starter clutch is pretty well hidden in between the cog and flywheel, I did not notice this was the problem untill further inspection. So yes, please do take a closer look at that item.
Good luck.
I appreciate all the advice FB. I'll check on it after work. Now I have another question. I'm cleaning up some of the parts and I was wondering if water was okay to use? Is it going to rust anything?
I forget does the Haynes manual list the specs for Conrod length etc? Yes the bits can stretch but if you measure them and they are in spec and no other obvious damage no reason not to re use. And after you clean up your parts give them a light coat of oil or wd40 or what have you to protect from rust because yes they will rust.