I was informed today while getting my new front tire on that my left cylinder isn't functioning properly. I don't know if it's spark or fuel issues or what. What are the ways I can go about trouble shooting this?
replace plugs.
swap coils to opposite side to see if the right side starts acting up.
carb sync.
Plugs are a month old, but I may get new ones just to be sure anyways.
How do I sync the carbs?
And... If the cylinder is missing spark, would that lead to a fouled plug of sorts? If it's missing fuel obviously the plug will be white. So would that be a good starter point to see if it's fuel or spark that's missing?
You need 3 things to make an internal combustion engine run.
Spark
Compression
Correct fuel/air mixture (carbs, injection).
Start with spark. Is it strong, or weak? If none, swap coils and plugs and see if the problem follows.
If it's not the spark, coils, or ignition...move to the carbs. One side may be dirty or not synched. Baltimore GS has a nice video of synching carbs.
Compression is the last thing...but most likely it's fuel or ignition.
Quote from: jestercinti on January 11, 2013, 01:30:40 PM
You need 3 things to make an internal combustion engine run.
Spark
Compression
Correct fuel/air mixture (carbs, injection).
Start with spark. Is it strong, or weak? If none, swap coils and plugs and see if the problem follows.
If it's not the spark, coils, or ignition...move to the carbs. One side may be dirty or not synched. Baltimore GS has a nice video of synching carbs.
Compression is the last thing...but most likely it's fuel or ignition.
How do I check the strength of the spark?
You can lay both plugs out on the side of the block still connected to the coils, turn off the fuel off and try to start it and look at the spark on each one and compare. It will give you a good idea and baseline. Doing this in less light works best
How old are the plugs? If you personally don't know, change 'em.
Quote from: jestercinti on January 11, 2013, 01:30:40 PM
If it's not the spark, coils, or ignition...move to the carbs...
Compression is the last thing...but most likely it's fuel or ignition.
Wouldn't compression be easier to test than the carbs?
You can also check the coils with a multimeter. There are two coils per side. A primary and a secondary.
The primary can be measured by checking the resistance between +wire and -wire on the coil pack. It should measure 3-6 ohms or resistance.
The secondary coil can be measured from the +wire to the plug cap and be around 18-30 Kohms.
Alright guys I hit a road block in my work. I got the coils switched around, new plugs. Turns out the old plugs.. The store I bought them from gave 2 completely different ones! But it didn't make a difference the left plug was still pretty fouled after 20 miles, I switched them on the ride to get new ones.
Anyways, I'm at a stand still, as the O-ring in my tank mounted fuel valve has gone past the point of re-use... Gotta order a new one and then continue when I can put the tank on the bike.
Quote from: mustangGT90210 on January 15, 2013, 10:17:31 AM
Alright guys I hit a road block in my work. I got the coils switched around, new plugs. Turns out the old plugs.. The store I bought them from gave 2 completely different ones! But it didn't make a difference the left plug was still pretty fouled after 20 miles, I switched them on the ride to get new ones.
Anyways, I'm at a stand still, as the O-ring in my tank mounted fuel valve has gone past the point of re-use... Gotta order a new one and then continue when I can put the tank on the bike.
That o-ring is super simple to replace. Carefully remove the retaining clip and take out the parts. Be sure you don't lose anything. Pop on a new o-ring and you're good to go. No need for a whole new unit.
That o-ring goes out because the fuel valve is rarely turned off. The o-ring sticks and when you turn it off, it can crack or break just due to lack of use and it got stuck. It should be easy to get that o-ring at an auto parts store. It is nothing unique to motorcycles.
Quote from: adidasguy on January 15, 2013, 12:15:33 PM
Quote from: mustangGT90210 on January 15, 2013, 10:17:31 AM
Alright guys I hit a road block in my work. I got the coils switched around, new plugs. Turns out the old plugs.. The store I bought them from gave 2 completely different ones! But it didn't make a difference the left plug was still pretty fouled after 20 miles, I switched them on the ride to get new ones.
Anyways, I'm at a stand still, as the O-ring in my tank mounted fuel valve has gone past the point of re-use... Gotta order a new one and then continue when I can put the tank on the bike.
That o-ring is super simple to replace. Carefully remove the retaining clip and take out the parts. Be sure you don't lose anything. Pop on a new o-ring and you're good to go. No need for a whole new unit.
That o-ring goes out because the fuel valve is rarely turned off. The o-ring sticks and when you turn it off, it can crack or break just due to lack of use and it got stuck. It should be easy to get that o-ring at an auto parts store. It is nothing unique to motorcycles.
Yup adidas. hit that nail on the head. to the OP, make sure the o-ring is fuel safe. a non fuel safe ring will for lack of a better term, destroy itself in fuel.
Quote from: adidasguy on January 15, 2013, 12:15:33 PM
Quote from: mustangGT90210 on January 15, 2013, 10:17:31 AM
Alright guys I hit a road block in my work. I got the coils switched around, new plugs. Turns out the old plugs.. The store I bought them from gave 2 completely different ones! But it didn't make a difference the left plug was still pretty fouled after 20 miles, I switched them on the ride to get new ones.
Anyways, I'm at a stand still, as the O-ring in my tank mounted fuel valve has gone past the point of re-use... Gotta order a new one and then continue when I can put the tank on the bike.
That o-ring is super simple to replace. Carefully remove the retaining clip and take out the parts. Be sure you don't lose anything. Pop on a new o-ring and you're good to go. No need for a whole new unit.
That o-ring goes out because the fuel valve is rarely turned off. The o-ring sticks and when you turn it off, it can crack or break just due to lack of use and it got stuck. It should be easy to get that o-ring at an auto parts store. It is nothing unique to motorcycles.
I decided to order the OEM Suzuki o-ring. $5 and it gets here on friday. Thanks to you guys last time I had this issue, I learned there even was that ring :bowdown: I've had to oil the dang thing heavily each of the last 3 times the tank has been off, so I knew it was on it's last legs.
What does a new coil cost anyway? I have yet to chase down that price
Got the new o-ring today... but apparently they mis understood and thought I meant the o-ring between the petcock and tank. Guy took me down into the service area and gave me a few circular o-rings from carbs i'd imagine. Got one that fits and doesn't leak!
Back to the bike, started back up like usual. Runs the same as before switching coils around... I'm letting it cool down right now before the plugs. Took it on about a 7 mile ride. I think it'll be enough to tell me what I need based on how bad the left plug was fouling.
Well, I need to ride it more. Don't have enough information on the spark plugs yet to make a reading
Quote from: mustangGT90210 on January 18, 2013, 05:12:44 PM<snip>Took it on about a 7 mile ride. I think it'll be enough to tell me what I need based on how bad the left plug was fouling.
For what it's worth, I doubt 7 miles is going to tell you anything more than what you already know about what's going on with the left cylinder. You've not really said anything (unless I missed it) about what *your* observations have been on how the engine is running.
No offense intended, but how are you defining "fouled"? If it is "sooted up", i.e., an accumulation of mostly dry pitch black dust than can be fairly easily removed with a toothbrush (depending on how long it has been running in that condition) chances are that if you have good voltage to the plug and the gap is correct, and the plug is not somehow defective, the plug is most likely firing. If on the other hand, the accumulation is very heavy, and it's damp, oily and building up to the point that it is starting to close the gap between the center electrode and the outside "bridge" (proper term?) which the spark arcs to, it definitely *will* affect the spark and translate to varying degrees of misfire. I've been maintaining/repairing/rebuilding my own infernal combustion devices for close to 44 years now to include a dozen or so motorcycles (mostly twins) of most all the more common makes (to include my beloved oddball 98 Moto Guzzi 1100EV) along with countless beater cars, pickups, commercial landscaping equipment of 2 and 4 cycle flavors, old and worn out as well as new. I can honestly say I have only had *one* engine where the plug got so fouled over time from sheer neglect that it actually caused the engine to stop running and refuse to start. That was a twin blade 90's vintage Toro mower with a 12HP Kawasaki engine. I thought to myself, "when *was* the last time I checked the plug on this bad boy?" I got to thinking...oops, not once in 4 years of heavy use and I knew it was burning oil. Hey, it happens! Point being, up until that fateful day it *always* started on the second pull, hot or cold, and seemed not to miss a lick! Well, the plug was unbelievably fouled, there was barely *any* gap left!
Electronic ignition produces a nice strong consistent spark, year after year, usually with damn little needed in the way of attention. Unlike the "bad old days" of "points/plugs/condenser" when it came time for a tune-up, and yes I know I am definitely showing my age with that remark!
No sir, most likely the plug is a symptom in your case, and not the problem...just a guess though, I have no way of knowing! You mentioned carb synch. Bad synch will cause "rough" idle and running along with excessive vibration, but does not create a misfire (if anyone agrees or disagrees feel free to comment)
I had no choice but pull the carbs off my GS to address what turned out to be a stubborn bit of trash stuck between the float needle valve and seat resulting in it dumping raw gas into the left cylinder and pouring out the throat of the carb. Usually this can be corrected by pulling the float bowl drain plug, letting some gas run though it, tap lightly on the float bowl, etc. but not this time and no way was I going to let it sit there and fill the cylinder up with gasoline! While I had the carbs off I was able to do a damn fine "static synch" on the carbs using two equal thickness feeler gauges and measuring (by feel) the amount of resistance felt while pulling the feeler gauges through the carb throat while the CV slide was moved up and down by the idle speed screw. Easier done than described I'm afraid, but it made perfect logical sense to me and it worked!
I don't expect you'll find that procedure listed in the service manual (dunno, don't have one!) but it is nigh on impossible to argue with results!
Mine runs like the proverbial sewing machine, across the board. it starts so easily (once fullly warmed up) it almost seems like the engine has *no* compression! I rode my son's 97 (I think it was) GS500E, with very low miles, recent "professional" tuning, etc. and the difference between his engine and mine in terms of overall smoothness and power delivery, to me, was night and day, with mine hands down the winner. I believe he made a statement to that effect once after he sold the 500E, "no comparison".
I say these things in *no way* to be boastful or anything of the sort. I learned to maintain and repair my own engines as a matter of financial necessity more than anything. That and the issue of not being able to find *competent and ethical* "professional" assistance on the rare occasion when I was forced to avail myself....namely warranty work.
Speaking of which...this dealer comment about the left cylinder. Did that come with an unsolicited invitation to bring the bike in and have it worked on, or did you mention a running issue to the service dept. and/or mechanic? you see where I am going with that, right?
One last thing as I have spent far more time writing this than I had intended and need to be doing other things!
You said the new plugs were "different"? Please clarify if you would.
Thank you for wealth of information there! I don't even know where to start..
Plugs - new ones after 100 miles are looking good, right side is slightly blacker. Both look to be acceptable now. The 2 month old set I had in the bike before were 2 different plugs. NGK DR8xxxx and the other was a DR8Pxxx. One was longer by the length of the electrode.
Carbs - Had them synced today while my tire was getting attended to. That's made a big difference. It doesn't pop while riding anymore, and overall sounds healthier. More steady power delivery, instead of the really peaky delivery from before. Small differences but I can feel it is much improved.
Carbs cont - I was speaking with the mechanic again today about everything I was experiencing. He showed me that my choke seems to be just slightly out of adjustment, so it's always resting on the plunger thing for the left cylinder just a little. I'll tinker with the arm so it has proper clearance and see if that's the cause here. Would also explain the hanging idle, but I think it'll take a little more digging for that to clear up
Mechanic - the shop I go to is a very reputable place. Independently owned so no dealer influence as well. The mechanics are extremely helpful when it comes asking questions. I make sure to let them know I can't afford anything more than what it's there for, and they still help me out in possible things.
I may also have to go in and clean the pilots, would explain my bike not liking to idle lol
And of course, need to adjust the valves I think. I haven't checked them but I think they're due. Just waiting on the proper feeler gauges to ship out here and I'll go from there.
Hey there "Mustang", looks like you're starting to get a handle on things....good on ya! :-)
Quote from: mustangGT90210 on January 20, 2013, 12:24:18 AM
Thank you for wealth of information there! I don't even know where to start..
My pleasure Sir! (chances are good you're male, if not, pardon moi!) You know what they say about assumptions.
Plugs - new ones after 100 miles are looking good, right side is slightly blacker. Both look to be acceptable now. The 2 month old set I had in the bike before were 2 different plugs. NGK DR8xxxx and the other was a DR8Pxxx. One was longer by the length of the electrode.
Well, no reason to stress over it now, water under tbe bridge. But yeah, that should not have been the case. This looks to be a decent "bare bones" FAQ from NGK which covers the basics if you're interested. It's nothing close to the wealth of product information I have seen from some of the other plug makers in the form of downloadable info/spec files
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_support/spark_plugs/faqs/index.asp?mode=nml (http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_support/spark_plugs/faqs/index.asp?mode=nml)
Well dog gone, I shouldn't be so quick to dismiss their FAQ....how embarrassing, I *learned* something just now reading one of the Q/A's topics! Not going to tell you what it was though, I can only bear so many crushing blows to my ego in any given 24 hour period! :confused:
Oh well, if I'm anywhere close to a shining example of what a "perfect" human being is supposed to be, we're screwed!
Otay, back to biz:
The website says that the standard heat range plug for a 2004-2009 GS500f is the DPR8EA-9. The "R" just means that it's a resistor plug which reduces radio frequency interference. In your case, one of the plugs was the "projecting insulator" type while the other one is not and they were both one number "hotter" than standard according to this chart:
http://ngksparkplugs.com/docs/tech/design_symbols_plugs.pdf (http://ngksparkplugs.com/docs/tech/design_symbols_plugs.pdf)
I don't recall if you stated the year/model and I can't open another window at the moment to find out without a bit of hassle...so I just arbitrarily chose that model range. I have an 07 500F.
The only situation where I can imagine the "P" designation being an issue would be if our engines *didn't* call for the projected insulator, and the available squish space in the combustion chamber at any given time is so small that the plug could actually hit the top of the piston or one of the valves. Not likely, but I just don't know for sure. (anyone?)
Well actualllllyyyyy, in your case, these small differences very well *could* make a difference, but again, not likely IMHO.
Carbs - Had them synced today while my tire was getting attended to. That's made a big difference. It doesn't pop while riding anymore, and overall sounds healthier. More steady power delivery, instead of the really peaky delivery from before. Small differences but I can feel it is much improved.
Excellent!!! A good synch job speaks for itself on twins in my experience, money well spent if you can actually tell the difference. A good indication the mechanic knew what the heck they were doing!
Carbs cont - I was speaking with the mechanic again today about everything I was experiencing. He showed me that my choke seems to be just slightly out of adjustment, so it's always resting on the plunger thing for the left cylinder just a little. I'll tinker with the arm so it has proper clearance and see if that's the cause here. Would also explain the hanging idle, but I think it'll take a little more digging for that to clear up
Well, my son had a 97 (I think) GS500E. I believe it was bone stock, no carb mods.
I did the washer "needle lift" mod on mine along with a minor tweak to the idle adjustment screw to richen it up a bit. Both bikes displayed the somewhat annoying "climbing idle rpm" syndrome which apparently is characteristic of these carbs when the "choke" is engaged. No biggie IMO. It's not actually a choke per se, it's a separate low speed circuit that will cause some interesting running issues if you happen to activate the lever slightly while you're out on a ride! Like, OMG! WHAT has happened to this engine! I went through that the first week of ownership. One of those model-specific idiosyncrasies you come to know and may even claim to love depending on what it is. Like say vibration, ya know? These engines DON'T vibrate, they simply emit a complimentary resonant chord which reflects the "oneness", the Zen of Twin, the Ohmmmmmmm, the Chi. Ok, so that's a bunch of bull, they buzz a bit! :-)
Mechanic - the shop I go to is a very reputable place. Independently owned so no dealer influence as well. The mechanics are extremely helpful when it comes asking questions. I make sure to let them know I can't afford anything more than what it's there for, and they still help me out in possible things.
Warms my heart. Truly. Such shops are rare these days, at least around here. (Metro ATL GA area) The KTM dealer down the road a ways is about the closest thing to what you have described anywhere near here. The owner is an old guy like me, an *enthusiast* who obviously is happy with his choice of livelihood. When I had the DL1000, and the Moto Guzzi before that, I would *look* for excuses to stop there now and then and throw a few bucks his way on small merchandise purchases. It was the best I could do. Hey, someone has to, particularly during the winter months. Unlike up North, snowmobiles aren't real big around here! I assume they play a large part in helping dealers get through the winter months?
So, it's not like I am strictly "anti-dealer" and I don't lump them all together and refer to them as "stealerships". But I have had a couple of *really* bad warranty experiences over the years which I mentioned elsewhere I think, but no need to "go there"!
I may also have to go in and clean the pilots, would explain my bike not liking to idle lol
Well, if you are going to go to all that trouble I would recommend doing it thoroughly or not at all. I would first recommend trying a couple of tanks with a reputable carb/injector cleaner added (following their instructions, not TOO much!). I am partial to Sea Foam, most people have a favorite. There is considerable risk in taking these carbs apart and it should not be approached too casually. You could lose the pins out of the little float valve jet assembly for instance, and you are dead in the water until you find a replacement and some of these parts are not even available according to the microfiche. You ever priced a NEW set of carbs? Absolutely frikking incredible!
Now these are supposedly "discount" prices mind you...
http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/48/Year/2007/ModelID/7551/Model/GS500F/GroupID/357784/Group/CARBURETOR_ (http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/48/Year/2007/ModelID/7551/Model/GS500F/GroupID/357784/Group/CARBURETOR_)
Aforementioned "float valve assy." (item 21) is $51.12 each. You can lose that little son-of-a-gun by looking at it wrong! And/or bend the teeny tiny retaining clip, or disturb the float height inadvertently, potentially just as much of a pain cuz you won't know that you screwed up until you get everything back together again and it runs like total crap, *much* worse than when you started "fixing" it!
Believe me, getting back into a carburetor engine was a *big* deal for me. My last three bikes prior to the GS were fuel injected, they each had issues at one time or another, totally different skill set (beyond basic troubleshooting principles, which are always the same) THEN I take possession of this bike from my son and right off the bat the SOB decided to start dumping fuel out of the left carb. I approached it with much trepidation cuz I was dead-ass broke, I'm talking zero funds to fix it, just my time and accumulated knowledge, stuff I hadn't had to use for nearly 20 years! Often times my self=confidence leaves me high and dry when I need it most, but if there is one thing I have learned over the years it is this:
When in doubt, STOP!!! Put down, away, go do something else and come back to it with a clear un-frustrated frame of mind.
Just as important but requires discipline, DON'T fix things that are NOT in need of repair, right? We know this intellectually, but sometimes those prying little fingers seem to take on a mind of their own, eager to futz things up! It happens!
And of course, need to adjust the valves I think. I haven't checked them but I think they're due. Just waiting on the proper feeler gauges to ship out here and I'll go from there.
I enjoyed checking mine. So damn *simple*. I mean *four* valves total? Sheeeeeiiiittt, what's not to like? :D I have one valve, the exhaust valve on the left cylinder that is out of spec by about 2 thousandths (inch) to the loose side. you can hear it. I left it be until I get a shim tool, maybe I can borrow one from somebody around here, who knows? I hate to buy one cuz it will be so rarely used. The valves on my DL had the same bucket/shim configuration. Easier on the one hand because the cams are gear driven and you just remove the cams. Ok, it's a trade off because that entails some risk if you are not careful. No question the GS is hands down simpler. I got through the DL, took my time and only had one "OMG" moment, that was when one of the camshaft cap bolts went missing. I liked to never found that sonofagun! It dropped out of the cap and was lodged in a cooling fin right up next to the rear cylinder exhaust header flange. Short of turning the whole bike upside down, I was coming to my wits end for explanations of where it might have gone before the dreaded, "OH NO, tell me it ain't so, it is INSIDE of the engine!!!"
Yep, this stuff should never been taken lightly when you are not able to simply hand your tore up shaZam! to someone else along with a wad of Franklins and say "Fix this please".
Hey, good to hear things are looking up! And yes, I am VERY long winded when it comes to bikes, this one in particular, it has renewed my "spark". Hey, check out my new tail-light/turn signal...I'm very proud! I took the short video before mounting the lamp because I woulda had to move the bike. It was like 4am and I didn;t want to mess with all that!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_XgO9ZwqhI
Take care!
Hube
Quote from: mustangGT90210 on January 20, 2013, 12:24:18 AM
Thank you for wealth of information there! I don't even know where to start..
Plugs - new ones after 100 miles are looking good, right side is slightly blacker. Both look to be acceptable now. The 2 month old set I had in the bike before were 2 different plugs. NGK DR8xxxx and the other was a DR8Pxxx. One was longer by the length of the electrode.
Carbs - Had them synced today while my tire was getting attended to. That's made a big difference. It doesn't pop while riding anymore, and overall sounds healthier. More steady power delivery, instead of the really peaky delivery from before. Small differences but I can feel it is much improved.
Carbs cont - I was speaking with the mechanic again today about everything I was experiencing. He showed me that my choke seems to be just slightly out of adjustment, so it's always resting on the plunger thing for the left cylinder just a little. I'll tinker with the arm so it has proper clearance and see if that's the cause here. Would also explain the hanging idle, but I think it'll take a little more digging for that to clear up
Mechanic - the shop I go to is a very reputable place. Independently owned so no dealer influence as well. The mechanics are extremely helpful when it comes asking questions. I make sure to let them know I can't afford anything more than what it's there for, and they still help me out in possible things.
I may also have to go in and clean the pilots, would explain my bike not liking to idle lol
And of course, need to adjust the valves I think. I haven't checked them but I think they're due. Just waiting on the proper feeler gauges to ship out here and I'll go from there.
What feeler guages did you buy? looking to do my shims and cant really settle on some feeler guages. I got some now that go down to .038 but it only fits under two so think I need a smaller set.
After I typed that I started thinking more into which to get and other finances. It may actually come out cheaper to have the shop adjust the valves than me do it. It's gonna cost me $40 to $50 in parts because I need the really small feelers, the shim tool, and new shims, plus the valve cover gasket if it doesn't seal back up right. Shop will charge around $100 for the job, and driving my truck for the week the bike would be in the shop for (only because my hours only mesh up once a week to get there) would cost me around $80.
I'm still trying to figure out everything so I spend the least amount of money at this time. I may crack open the head with the feelers I have knowing full well I can probably just wing it, go down a shim size and it'll come out fine.
So the real question here! Does having the intake valves open at .10mm instead of the specified high end of .08mm make a difference worth worrying about? My smallest gauge is a .05mm, and I believe the shims each go down by .05mm anyway. Am I right in thinking I could just drop one size on the shim and all be alright?
Quote from: mustangGT90210 on January 24, 2013, 11:55:54 PM
So the real question here! Does having the intake valves open at .10mm instead of the specified high end of .08mm make a difference worth worrying about?
Just to be absolutely clear. You mean a measured clearance of .10mm?
A bit loose always better than too tight. My left exhaust valve is out on the high end by the same amount as your intake. I might get around to adjusting it this winter or I might not. Not in the least bit worried about it though. I think in inches, that's roughly two one-thousandths of an inch. If you give two people a feeler gauge I would be surprised if both measured the same clearance within one-thousandth in. unless it was an accurately ground "go, no go" feeler. Sorry, two many words. In my *opinion*, ride it another 10K miles and check it again. I can hear the loose valve on mine when it's cold, it goes away once warmed up. To me that's close enough!
My smallest gauge is a .05mm, and I believe the shims each go down by .05mm anyway. Am I right in thinking I could just drop one size on the shim and all be alright?
I believe they come from the factory with smaller increment shims than you can buy. If they've never been touched, You might luck up pulling them all out and swapping them around and end up with it spot on. Or you could waste a whole bunch of time and gain nothing. $100 for the valve adjustment seems very reasonable to me if it's done right and it really needs it, but if you already know what you have, is that worth it? Your call. My 23 year old F-150 gets 12 mpg,, loaded, unloaded, uphill or down. My GS gets 55-60mpg minimum the way I ride it. I wish I *could* be riding it now, it makes me sick to waste money on gasoline! Good Luck, I'll leave you to it, promise! :-)
Valve shim tool: $15, ebay
Metric feelers: $4, ebay (china)
Shims $5-$9 each on ebay, liable to be cheaper elsewhere.
Chinese stuff will take about an extra week to ship but will usually be a little cheaper.
A magnet is helpful to grab the shim but not required.
You shouldn't need a new gasket on your valve cover unless something is pretty messed up. Also, .10 clearance shouldn't give you any problems, a lot of people here (myself included) run exhausts .08-.13 (one step up) to make the exhaust valves last longer and the only 'problem' I've heard of is a tad bit noisier valves.
So in total you shouldn't have to spend more than $60 (that's if you replace every shim) and then you'll have the tools to do it for the price of shims next time.
If you've got access to a surface grinder (and preferably a micrometer or good calipers) you can just grind your old shims down a bit... just make sure you grind off the size marking so it doesn't confuse anyone and put the ground side down on the bucket in case it lost the temper. $20 for the tools and then your valve adjustments are free!
A few things to add here.
I don't understand how grinding shims would help. They are made of hard metal. Although theoretically possible, unless you grind evenly, you are subject to camshaft damage due to the grooves in the shim.
Why not do what I do...My dealer (Cycle Specialties in Fairfield, Ohio) will do an even swap. If I bring in the old shims, then tell them what size I need they will give me the new ones at no charge. Yes, no charge. I gave them the strange factory in-between sizes that I will no doubt ever use again, and they gave me some 2.60mm at no charge!
Some other dealers will give you a hefty credit, so the new shims will be less. Adidiasguy once stated that his dealer in Seattle, Washington swaps out shims for a $1-2 each.
A surface grinder is basically a bench mill with the head replaced with a griding wheel. These machines easily hold ten-thousandths of an inch thickness (0.0001") without any problem. The finish quality of properly surface ground metal is smooth enough to go straight to a polish if desired. Regardless of finish, so long as it's flat and the ground side is down it doesn't matter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_grinding
So my clearances should be .08? So if my .038 isnt fitting in then i am extremely tight?
To check if it's overly tight, see if you can spin the bucket freely. If not, that means it's too tight. Otherwise, you're okay*
*by okay I mean your engine should run fine. That doesn't mean you shouldn't put it back to spec though.
Quote from: Badot on January 25, 2013, 12:09:40 PM
A surface grinder is basically a bench mill with the head replaced with a griding wheel.
<snip>
You're right, surface finish would not be a problem. You could easily put a mirror finish on them! Key word "if" he had access, like if someone he knew would do it as a favor, right? Otherwise I imagine the minimum shop labor cost would be prohibitive. Novel idea though! No reason you couldn't do it. I worked in both general and automotive machine shops years ago and that idea never occurred to me. I doubt most automotive machine shops would have a surface grinder, 'course I could be wrong.
Heck, I couldn't even find a shop with the proper lathe set-up to turn the rotors off of my 23 year old F-150. The truck was ultra low mileage when I bought it and there was enough meat left on them to turn down at least once. I specifically did not *want* to buy the cheap throw-away chinese rotors. They're prone to warping. Partly because they don't make them thick enough. But hey, that's my problem, right? :-) (believe me, it is, I'm on my third set of the damn things.)
Oops, sorry, wrong forum, eh? :dunno_black:
Anyway, In this hypothetical situation of ground shims, I'd grind the numbers off the shim so it would have to be checked for thickness before being used again. I think it is common practice to "recycle" them at shops. Heck, would you believe the two year old dealership, Suzuki only, where I bought my shims for the DL (they didn't want my old ones) handed me the shims from a brand new unopened set? Three mechanics working there and not *one* of them had ever done a valve adjustment on a DL...honest! Sounds "fishy" don't it? Well, six months later they were out of business, never knew what the story was. They gave me killer deals on changing tires though (off the bike) I hated to see it. I changed my own on the GS cuz shops around here want too much $$. Glad I did (change them myself). A little patience and finesse goes a long way it seems...comes with age I guess, I used to HATE changing tires! Of course "size does matter".
Ok, I ramble elsewhere now, bye!
Hube
Quote from: OldTwinzNeverDie on January 25, 2013, 01:35:16 AM
Quote from: mustangGT90210 on January 24, 2013, 11:55:54 PM
So the real question here! Does having the intake valves open at .10mm instead of the specified high end of .08mm make a difference worth worrying about?
Just to be absolutely clear. You mean a measured clearance of .10mm?
I have not measured yet, but if my .05 feeler doesn't fit, then dropping .05 on the shim thickness should bring it up to .08-.10mm IF they valves are still in spec. The way I see it, if I measure my valves and all don't fit the .05mm gauge, then just go down .05 for the next shim and be in spec (and measurable with my gauge set)
A bit loose always better than too tight. My left exhaust valve is out on the high end by the same amount as your intake. I might get around to adjusting it this winter or I might not. Not in the least bit worried about it though. I think in inches, that's roughly two one-thousandths of an inch. If you give two people a feeler gauge I would be surprised if both measured the same clearance within one-thousandth in. unless it was an accurately ground "go, no go" feeler. Sorry, two many words. In my *opinion*, ride it another 10K miles and check it again. I can hear the loose valve on mine when it's cold, it goes away once warmed up. To me that's close enough!
My smallest gauge is a .05mm, and I believe the shims each go down by .05mm anyway. Am I right in thinking I could just drop one size on the shim and all be alright?
I believe they come from the factory with smaller increment shims than you can buy. If they've never been touched, You might luck up pulling them all out and swapping them around and end up with it spot on. Or you could waste a whole bunch of time and gain nothing. $100 for the valve adjustment seems very reasonable to me if it's done right and it really needs it, but if you already know what you have, is that worth it? Your call. My 23 year old F-150 gets 12 mpg,, loaded, unloaded, uphill or down. My GS gets 55-60mpg minimum the way I ride it. I wish I *could* be riding it now, it makes me sick to waste money on gasoline! Good Luck, I'll leave you to it, promise! :-)
What engine do you have in your 23 year old F150? I'm driving a '91 150 with the 300 straight six in it, pulls a solid 16mpg all day with a 2.5" lift and 31x10.50 tires. I should have it up on 33x12.50 when the funds allow and the current tires wear out more. That was my first truck 3.5 years ago when I turned 17. Paid $200 for it, and I love it to death. Did a lot of work on it to get it where it sits, but only about $300 in mechanical stuff, the rest was all fun mods
(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/189763_4871599710121_1604330296_n.jpg)
Custom made those headlight lenses as well. I'm the only '87-'91 in the world with clear lights I believe :flipoff:
Quote from: mustangGT90210 on January 25, 2013, 08:38:52 PM
What engine do you have in your 23 year old F150? I'm driving a '91 150 with the 300 straight six in it, pulls a solid 16mpg all day
Custom made those headlight lenses as well. I'm the only '87-'91 in the world with clear lights I believe :flipoff:
1990 Supercab w/351 Windsor. It's an "XLT Lariat" which just means it has fancy trim, power windows and locks that don't work!
Only 51K miles on it when purchased 7 years ago, about 102K now. It's solid, dent-free, badly faded red/white with camper shell nearly identical to this one:
(http://farm9.static.flickr.com/8024/7577230962_08858ba91b.jpg)
300ci 6 is a good engine. Had one in Econoline van years ago. Bro/law has one in his 94 (I think it is) 150. It's going on 300K miles! He pulls his landscape biz trailer with it now, was using his F-350 diesel. He's saving a bunch on fuel now, go figure!
Re: lenses, yep, reckon you;d be right on that one. I've polished mine out a time or two. Pointless! :dunno_black:
Re grinding shims ... be aware that these shims may be 'surface hardened' - therefore you wouldn't want to grind too much, if at all.
"Induction surface hardened low alloyed medium carbon steels are widely used for critical automotive and machine applications which require high wear resistance. Wear resistance behavior of induction hardened parts depends on hardening depth and the magnitude and distribution of residual compressive stress in the surface layer."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_hardening
But yeah I might do it, in a pinch.
For the third time... you put the ground side down... come on people.
What does a new coil cost anyway? I have yet to chase down that price
[/quote]
depends on the brand, but for under $20 you have quite the assortment to choose from.
and nice ford, im a big fan of the straight six (and thats saying something, im not a ford fan) one of my friends has one with 985,XXX miles on it when i left OR and he's still driving his bronco. though i disagree on the tail-lights, my buddy has clear tail-lights on his truck :flipoff:
Quote from: OldTwinzNeverDie on January 26, 2013, 03:47:45 AM
Quote from: mustangGT90210 on January 25, 2013, 08:38:52 PM
What engine do you have in your 23 year old F150? I'm driving a '91 150 with the 300 straight six in it, pulls a solid 16mpg all day
Custom made those headlight lenses as well. I'm the only '87-'91 in the world with clear lights I believe :flipoff:
1990 Supercab w/351 Windsor. It's an "XLT Lariat" which just means it has fancy trim, power windows and locks that don't work!
Only 51K miles on it when purchased 7 years ago, about 102K now. It's solid, dent-free, badly faded red/white with camper shell nearly identical to this one:
(http://farm9.static.flickr.com/8024/7577230962_08858ba91b.jpg)
.
300ci 6 is a good engine. Had one in Econoline van years ago. Bro/law has one in his 94 (I think it is) 150. It's going on 300K miles! He pulls his landscape biz trailer with it now, was using his F-350 diesel. He's saving a bunch on fuel now, go figure!
Re: lenses, yep, reckon you;d be right on that one. I've polished mine out a time or two. Pointless! :dunno_black:
My '91 is a Lariat as well. Love being top of the line, and having the power stuff still work. The A/C and heat are another thing, but with the vent windows, even Florida summers are fine
Polishing those lights are so pointless. You can get the yellow away, but they still have those dang lines in the lenses so they're never actually clear :/
Quote from: iclrag on January 26, 2013, 02:08:38 PM
What does a new coil cost anyway? I have yet to chase down that price
depends on the brand, but for under $20 you have quite the assortment to choose from.
and nice ford, im a big fan of the straight six (and thats saying something, im not a ford fan) one of my friends has one with 985,XXX miles on it when i left OR and he's still driving his bronco. though i disagree on the tail-lights, my buddy has clear tail-lights on his truck :flipoff:
[/quote]
But I was talking about the headlights ;) My tails are smoked stock ones. Here's a better shot of the before/after. Plus during this 3 days I removed the fog lights, painted the bumpers, and blacked out the Ford oval. And a week later got the 15x10 wheels from the pic farther up
(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/557137_4553877767271_979025890_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/644540_4596548554014_1084128739_n.jpg)
As far as the coil goes, I'm glad to say it's not my problem! After swapping the 2 coils, and getting new plugs, the plugs are reading really close to one another. Gonna do the valves this weekend and check for air leaks in the intake system, and see if I can't get this thing to idle properly
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb442/adidasguy/Videos/hijacked.gif)
OK you crazies, I stop posting a few weeks due to lack of laptop and this happens.
So here it is on plain english:
YOU DO NOT GRIND A SHIM. Dont make me come down there, dont do it.
You can measure it with an accurate caliper and it may be a few 1000 under, so use that for what it will help. Put the next thinner one in, larger gap wont hurt anything except be a little click and clack.
Left cyl issues in an 89-00 bike is usually the vacuum line leaking. especially if its worse @ idle and looks lean on the plug.
If it is still acting wonky on 1 cyl, you may need to open and clean the auxillary ground. <- Search that on this forum.
@ higher revs, you have to do a high speed run+plug pull, that aint easy or safe or neccesary.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on January 28, 2013, 10:17:07 PM
OK you crazies, I stop posting a few weeks due to lack of laptop and this happens.
While you were gone we turned this into a cat forum - in case you wondered.
and just for you,
BUDDHA CAT!(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y121/bondmadcat/Katastrophe/buddhacat2.jpg)
Quote from: The Buddha on January 28, 2013, 10:17:07 PM
OK you crazies, I stop posting a few weeks due to lack of laptop and this happens.
So here it is on plain english:
YOU DO NOT GRIND A SHIM. Dont make me come down there, dont do it.
You can measure it with an accurate caliper and it may be a few 1000 under, so use that for what it will help. Put the next thinner one in, larger gap wont hurt anything except be a little click and clack.
Left cyl issues in an 89-00 bike is usually the vacuum line leaking. especially if its worse @ idle and looks lean on the plug.
If it is still acting wonky on 1 cyl, you may need to open and clean the auxillary ground. <- Search that on this forum.
@ higher revs, you have to do a high speed run+plug pull, that aint easy or safe or neccesary.
Cool.
Buddha.
Nothing wrong with loose valves, awesome :)
Which vacuum line are you talking about? I've still gotta check the carb boots for leaks as well. This bike has never really liked to idle. Requires constant adjustment, like every couple rides. It always fluctuates, stalls when I get hard on the brakes, and the weird part of it - I've tried setting the idle the proper way, but then as soon as I give it throttle it'll hang... a lot. But if I leave the idle low enough it'll idle badly but the revs won't hang up.
And by hang up I mean it'll sit at what feels like 4-5k rpm for 30 seconds and then come down. And go back up there again
Wow, it sounds like Buddah has your number on this problem. The symptoms that you just described are screaming vacuum leak.
- Bboy
Sounds like it. To check the stuff for a vacuum leak, I get the carb cleaner in a can and spray that, right?
Yep. Carb boots are the most common spot for a vacuum leak. But check everywhere for rpm changes with the carb cleaner.
- Bboy
The only places I know to look are the vacuum ports on the top of the carbs, the line to the petcock, and the boots. Are there any others?
Quote from: mustangGT90210 on January 29, 2013, 10:48:31 AM
Sounds like it. To check the stuff for a vacuum leak, I get the carb cleaner in a can and spray that, right?
Hell no ... atleast not unless you're wanting to start a fire.
WD40 preferably the squeeze spray kind and not the pressureised can ... though that also is pretty safe.
You're vacuum line runs to the frame petcock.
Hanging idle = lean. It can be lean wihtout having a vacuum leak, or can be the result of a vacuum leak.
Adidas - that cat buddha is one unholy bastage.
Cool.
Buddha
...Alright, anything volatile you use to check for vacuum leaks is 'dangerous'... but that is also why it works. Brake cleaner is a little 'safer' than carb cleaner... and WD40 is 'safer' than both of those. However, they are also less effective in detecting a leak as you go down. Heck, I've also heard of people using an unlit propane torch to find leaks...
Regardless, know that any checking like this carries danger. Also remember that carb cleaner and brake cleaner aren't nice to rubber or plastics, so it is always a good idea to try WD40 first, anyway... But if that doesn't work, don't rule out a leak.
- Bboy
Edit: I'm waiting for sledge to reply to tell us the way to do it by the book, using smoke in the vacuum circuit or something like they do at a shop with the right machine... Just waiting for it because I do appreciate the balance his comments provide.
Also, the unlit propane torch sounds more dangerous than it is... you just don't want to get a pool of it in some nook or cranny and then....
Quote from: The Buddha on January 29, 2013, 08:45:23 PM
Quote from: mustangGT90210 on January 29, 2013, 10:48:31 AM
Sounds like it. To check the stuff for a vacuum leak, I get the carb cleaner in a can and spray that, right?
Hell no ... atleast not unless you're wanting to start a fire.
WD40 preferably the squeeze spray kind and not the pressureised can ... though that also is pretty safe.
You're vacuum line runs to the frame petcock.
Hanging idle = lean. It can be lean wihtout having a vacuum leak, or can be the result of a vacuum leak.
Adidas - that cat buddha is one unholy bastage.
Cool.
Buddha
Looks like I'll definately be keeping the hose close while I check this today lol. And I don't think the bike is running lean, the plugs are a brownish color with a tiny bit of white. That and the hang up is sporadic. The bike will run for days without, then it comes back with a vengeance, and it happens way more when the bike is warm. I thought a lean problem would be most noticeable when the bike is cold? It'll rev great, and come back down just as good until it's up to temp (when it wants to hang... it's inconsistent too often!)
So last night, problem re-surfaced big time. Left plug is black as night, and when I really get on it the bike just makes the same noises as when you try to give it gas when it's on empty, that real low, struggle sound. The bike will cruise fine, but it's got no balls as soon as I want to get up and go.
I think it's flooding the left cylinder with fuel when I lay into the throttle. This would also make me want to check the float height, correct? I have yet to do that while I've owned this bike. I'll also be checking the operation of the choke later today, may have to bend the lever on the carb a little bit because it does seem to always rest just slightly on the plunger for the left as well
If it suddenly comes and goes it could be electrical.
Try swapping the plugs - see if problem moves to the other side
Check the coil wiring - maybe loose wire. maybe spark plug cap not on good. Those do unscrew from the coil and the caps unscrew from the wire.
Possible an ignition pickup is going bad - intermittent due to heat or vibration.
Possible the ICU is going bad from heat or vibration.
Check all connections for those things. Unplug them. Spray come contact cleaner. Plug back in. if a connection looks bad, plug & unplug a few times to wipe the contact clean.
I had a plug go bad once. Engine ran then sudden;t loss of power. Then suddenly it came back. On and off. Plug had some internal crack that opened & closed making the left cylinder work then go dead. Then work. The go dead.
I feel if it was a carb issue, the problem would face in and out rather than sudden;t cut in and out.
I discovered mine was the plug when I swapped the plugs when putting them back in and the problem went to the right cylinder.
The only reason it doesn't seem electrical in my mind is because it's been a progression. One of the cylinders - presumably the left one, would not fire when I started it, but give it some gas and then it would come alive as well. Last night is the first time it hasn't seemed to have come back.
I'm about to go out there now, clean the plugs, check the float height, and adjust the choke. I'm really hoping the choke is just out enough that it's dumping way too much fuel in. I hate electrical work lol I'm wishing and hoping it's a mechanical thing!
Have you checked the choke (actually "low speed circuit" not choke)to make sure it is closing fully when you push the lever all the way forward? I found out early on this engine will do all kinds of weird stuff if the choke is not fully de-activated when the engine is warmed up
running too fast at idle is for sure one thing that it might do. I was used to riding fuel injection motorcycles and forgot all about this "choke" stuff! (DOH!) I left the house for a ride, the bike was running perfectly, 15 minutes later the idle was all over the place at a stoplight. I rode straight home, all freaked out over it cuz I had just been through a carb problem...the left hand carb needle valve/seat got some trash stuck in it. Gas flooded the cylinder and ran out of the carb throat while the bike was just sitting in the driveway. After cleaning the carbs and doing a "static" carb synch, the engine was running incredibly smooth! Then the choke thing happened on the first post-repair ride. I sure was relieved when I realized what it was,,DOH!
Anyway, something about what you are going through sounds awfully damn familiar! Curious to hear what it is.
Quote from: mustangGT90210 on January 29, 2013, 10:34:45 AM
Which vacuum line are you talking about? I've still gotta check the carb boots for leaks as well. This bike has never really liked to idle. Requires constant adjustment, like every couple rides. It always fluctuates, stalls when I get hard on the brakes, and the weird part of it - I've tried setting the idle the proper way, but then as soon as I give it throttle it'll hang... a lot. But if I leave the idle low enough it'll idle badly but the revs won't hang up.
And by hang up I mean it'll sit at what feels like 4-5k rpm for 30 seconds and then come down. And go back up there again
We shall see! I'm hoping it's that simple. I didn't get out there to adjust it the clutch lever the other day because I was just too tired to get off the couch before class and tear into it. It'll be getting much needed attention tomorrow evening. The guy that filled in with me at the drag strip last weekend happens to be a motorcycle engine builder by trade, and drag races a realllllly nice GSX-R. So hopefully we'll get this all figured out!
Alright well I have kind of an update. I've removed my broken choke cable, choke operation is once again proper. I need to get a new rubber hose for the float height, seem to have lost my old one. Took a thermal gun to the exhaust pipes right as they were leaving the head, and it tells a big story. Right side (good one) was up to about 400 in exhaust temp in about 10 seconds it felt like. Left side maxed at around 300 during the same time frame.
And I'm shooting both orange and blue flames about 8" out my exhaust pipe when this thing backfires, which is does A LOT right now. And I found an air leak as well, it's on the right side carb boot, left side boot didn't yield any results to carb cleaner, but we'll see.
Now that sounds pretty cool, shooting flames out the back, for some reason I dont think you would pass emissions here in AZ tho lol.
No emissions in Florida :woohoo:
Did a little more work today. Went out there, tore it all down, gave the carbs a quick spray with some cleaner (had 'em open, may as well even though they were pretty clean). Got the float height JUUUUUST right using the U-bend method. Less backfiring.
Brought it back, cleaned the plugs - more power, more backfire. I don't know about flames this time lol
Now while it cools, what should I look for next? I want to do that spark plug boot thing where you re-do wires but I have no idea where the stuff separates and I don't wanna destroy my entire wire/boot out of ignorance. I'm getting back close to stock power, and if I rev it slowly, the revs will climb well. Floor it and it bogs down a bit.
And finally... if my valves were waaaay tight, could they cause this?
Update:
I've disconnected every electrical connector, and used contact cleaner for each, then re-connected. Plugs were cleaned and re-gapped again. Tore open the top part of the carbs also just for shits and giggles, and this is where the fun starts. My left side diaphram has about a 1 inch tear down where it meets up with the plastic part for the spring and needle. But I also slipped a little when taking the cover off the top, so I don't know if I caused this just now, or if it was there before. Regardless I need a new one. So would that tear in the diaphram cause some of the symptoms I was having, or what? I'm not even really sure what it does to be honest
You did a double post! MISTER - it is time to discipline the sheep.
Does a carb even work with the diaphragm torn?
I doubt you tore it opening it up. Either it did it on its own or a cat got in there and scratched it.
(http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/how-to-solve-cat-behavior-problems-4.jpg)
(http://www.articlesweb.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Never-Overlook-Cat-Scratching-03.jpg)
Quote from: jestercinti on January 11, 2013, 01:30:40 PM
You need 3 things to make an internal combustion engine run.
Spark
Compression
Correct fuel/air mixture (carbs, injection).
Start with spark. Is it strong, or weak? If none, swap coils and plugs and see if the problem follows.
If it's not the spark, coils, or ignition...move to the carbs. One side may be dirty or not synched. Baltimore GS has a nice video of synching carbs.
Compression is the last thing...but most likely it's fuel or ignition.
Excellent advice, especially in the order listed. Do what he says. :thumb:
Just ordered a new diaphragm for $25 from Suzuki! How do I go about removing the old one? I didn't know they could be separated
Quote from: mustangGT90210 on February 07, 2013, 11:13:16 AM
Just ordered a new diaphragm for $25 from Suzuki! How do I go about removing the old one? I didn't know they could be separated
If you're referring to the ones on the carb slides, they go on and off just like an o-ring... stretch them over the lip and they hold themselves in place.
Side question for people with more experience, is this something that you should replace as a pair?
If I had the extra money I'd pony up for the pair. Broke college student I am can't do that lol.
Thanks very much on the how to on install! Last thing I want to do is break the $60 slide.
And finally, I have a good update to make to this thread, just save the redneck jokes for later :embarassed: I took some black RTV instant gasket maker, and smeared it all over the rip in the trouble diaphragm. Let it cure on there, then reassembled everything. This bike runs great. Still has a leak somewhere (or is now making the proper noises and I think their wrong cause I haven't heard them) but the bike pulls great in higher revs, the idle is steady, and also I don't have a hanging idle problem anymore!!
What, no duct tape?
(Sad to say, no cat pictures this time. Only cat + duct tape pictures I found were of animal cruelty. :cry: )
Quote from: adidasguy on February 07, 2013, 09:04:02 PM
What, no duct tape?
(Sad to say, no cat pictures this time. Only cat + duct tape pictures I found were of animal cruelty. :cry: )
I shouldn't have looked that up on google images :icon_sad:
I did find a pretty funny one though, how to punish a kitty for eating forbidden foods...
[attachment deleted by admin]
Haha very nice. He bested you adidas.
Checked my valves the other day, exhausts are.... scary close to being at .00mm... So what would you guys reccommend for a test shim size? I'm going to order the tool and 2 shims, so what's a shot in the dark, good test size? I've accepted I'll probably have to redo it, but I want to try once and maybe get lucky lol
New shim size depends on what's in there now. If you need 0.05mm, then you need a shim about that much thinner than what's in there now.
There is no standard shim size.
You have to remove and measure what you have now then you can determine the new shim size. You will need calipers to measure. Most are not stamped with a size and those that were, it may be worn off.
Dangit. I'll have to give the dealer a call and see if they'll trade shims with me then
You have to do the math: if you have X clearance and need Y clearance and your current shim is Z then what size new shim do you need?
Z + X - Y = new shim
2.60 + 0.01 - 0.08 = 2.53
So you would go with a 2.50 (looser) or 2.55 (tighter)
There is a table in the service manuals to save you from doing the math.
many dealers swap shims if they have what you need. $1-$2 per shim.
So if I have a 2.60 shim, and a .01 clearance, going to a 2.55 shim will give me a .06 clearance, got it! I'm just waiting on parts now :( Update comes soon!
Even if you have already checkd the carbs, cleanthem again. Especially, the left pilot. Then, once you are done, clear it all over again. You have to be 100% sure that the left carb pilot and all the tiny circuits are clean and clear.
I ended up replacing a freaking head one to fix a non working left cyl only to realize the problem was the pilot circuit all along.
Quote from: tb0lt on February 14, 2013, 10:14:35 AM
Even if you have already checkd the carbs, cleanthem again. Especially, the left pilot. Then, once you are done, clear it all over again. You have to be 100% sure that the left carb pilot and all the tiny circuits are clean and clear.
I ended up replacing a freaking head one to fix a non working left cyl only to realize the problem was the pilot circuit all along.
Turned out to be the carb diaphragm, I siliconed it and problem solved. WAiting on the new part to show up now to replace that rigged one