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Main Area => General GS500 Discussion => Topic started by: Shadow Camaro on January 14, 2013, 01:30:11 PM

Title: New Engine, Bike wont Start (UPDATED AGAIN. EUREKA! Then awwww...)
Post by: Shadow Camaro on January 14, 2013, 01:30:11 PM
Ok guys so i pulled my old engine and dropped in another with less than half the mileage. this engine came from a bike with carb issues and it would turn over in the old bike. However, after putting it in mine and hooking everything up, the bike doesn't start. the engine doesn't turn over at all. I was wondering what i could have done wrong? I pull the clutch handle in and press the start button and theres nothing. not a whisper. so im thinking it must be something electrical? the engine was from a 2004 and mine is a 2005 and it looked like all the electrical plugs matched up perfectly. But maybe i need to take the signal generator from the my bike and use it with the new engine? because i used the signal generator that came with the new engine. Any help or ideas guys? thanks.
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: BockinBboy on January 14, 2013, 01:34:06 PM
Any lights come on when you turn the key?

If you don't even get that, then check the fuse.  :thumb:

- Bboy
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: adidasguy on January 14, 2013, 01:37:21 PM
Signal generator is the same.
Lights come on - yes or no? If no - fuse? Battery connected? Ground wire connected to motor?
Of nothing, is there a click for the starter relay?
If no click, check the kill switch? Neutral switch? Side stand switch? Clutch switch?
Is the ground wire connected to the motor?
Wire connected to starter motor?

Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: Shadow Camaro on January 14, 2013, 01:44:09 PM
just went down and checked a few thing guys. The oil light and neutral light both come on. The headlight and turn signals do not. Not sure why that is. Is my battery dead? idk how to check the fuse on these bikes. i also dont know how to check the clutch switch or where its at. but i think the headlight and sinals mnot coming on could be a clue. everything else seemed fine.
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: BockinBboy on January 14, 2013, 01:46:10 PM
Bet its your battery then.

You can confirm with a Multimeter, or just charge the battery and try again. 

- Bboy
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: weedahoe on January 14, 2013, 02:22:10 PM
Yeah, go back and check, double check and triple check all the connections. Make sure your ground is good too!
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: adidasguy on January 14, 2013, 03:21:02 PM
Everyone should be required to have a Haynes or Clymer manual (I prefer haynes because the wiring diagram is in color).
    ...and just after that is everyone must have a meter. (an under $10 el-cheapo is just fine.)
You can't work on your bike without the manual.
You can't do electrical work without a meter.
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: Shadow Camaro on January 14, 2013, 05:09:10 PM
I put some jumper cables to the battery and it was a no go. Same problem. Neutral light and oil light come on strong and bright but nothing else. Help :(
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: Shadow Camaro on January 14, 2013, 05:26:50 PM
Also checked the fuse and all four plugs that come from the engine. Everything is fine. So I'm dumbfounded.
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: adidasguy on January 14, 2013, 05:50:09 PM
On 2004+, all connectors are under the right front part of the tank.
Most likely one of the connectors is disconnected. Remove the tank and check all wiring in that area.

The area you see here - probably a connector cane loose. Check the big ones and the single ones. Your wiring diagram will help sort things out if you use the color coded wiring diagram. Very easy to pull a connector when you removed and installed the engine.

(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb442/adidasguy/GS500%20Bike%20Build/DSC01498a.jpg)
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: stokes776 on January 14, 2013, 06:12:26 PM
In adidasguy's picture, see those two black cylinders near the top?  There are little spade connectors to each.  If they come disconnected then your spark plugs dont fire.  Check and make sure both of these are connected!

I swapped engines and shortly thereafter accidentally disconnected one after taking the tank off (or probably while putting it back on).  My bike ran on one cylinder for a ride, was REALLY weird.  I could see it making no noises if both are disconnected.

You say your sure you have power with that battery. Like the others said, check all your connectors.  There is a wire coming out of the back bottom left of the motor that I think is the starter motor.  Might check that.  I think I had to swap that out when I swapped a 98 engine into my 04.
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: Bluesmudge on January 14, 2013, 06:16:37 PM
Even if there is no spark, you should still hear the starter motor and the engine should turn over. There is something causing none of it to work. Make sure you are checking the real fuse, not the spare fuse. Check all connections under the seat and under the tank.
Also...make sure the kill switch is in the correct position  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: stokes776 on January 14, 2013, 06:18:03 PM
+1 to the kill switch being on.

tend to forget things when you've been wrenching for hours on end
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: adidasguy on January 14, 2013, 06:23:08 PM
Since he says a couple indicators come on - fuse is OK.
No headlight: not the kill switch. Kill switch kills the engine, not the headlight.
My vote is going with the connectors under the tank. Both hand controls are there. Left hand controls the headlight. Right controls the kill switch.
Also as a check - what about the horn? No horn and left connector unplugged. We know the ignition is plugged in because a couple indicators do come on. So the key is turning on power.

Also look for the single barrel connectors. Those are easy to pull out and they can look connected when they need to be shoved in more.
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: Shadow Camaro on January 14, 2013, 08:31:56 PM
I checked all those connections and everything seems to be good guys. I'm just at a loss here as to what would be the problem. It's really irritating me now.
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: adidasguy on January 14, 2013, 08:51:20 PM
Time to get out the wiring diagram and your meter.
You can follow the +12 everywhere and soon you'll find the break or loose connector.
The wiring diagram in color is available (and even on my photobucket page). Connect the black meter wire to battery ground and then turn on the bike and start following around the +12.
Its not hard. A wiring diagram is just like a map. Follow the lines and follow the wires.

Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: crzydood17 on January 14, 2013, 10:11:04 PM
my vote is a problem in the left hand controls. it has the Clutch switch and the headlight switch, both of those would cause the exact symptoms, try to bump start the thing and see what happens.
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: adidasguy on January 14, 2013, 11:06:42 PM
Quote from: crzydood17 on January 14, 2013, 10:11:04 PM
my vote is a problem in the left hand controls. it has the Clutch switch and the headlight switch, both of those would cause the exact symptoms, try to bump start the thing and see what happens.
That could take care of everything.
If the clutch lever got pulled out, also possible the clutch switch was broken. That can be shorted if broken.
Start button is routed through the clutch switch. Headlight routed through high/low switch so yep - most likely the left hand control is unplugged.
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: crzydood17 on January 15, 2013, 10:27:49 AM
Does the horn work? How about blinkers?
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: cbrfxr67 on January 15, 2013, 12:00:27 PM
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSt_LOCw5DWYYL193_RyDhbbYGijbIFLI2XGL5Auut6kI87xJHa)
sub'd
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: Shadow Camaro on January 15, 2013, 02:21:25 PM
no horn (horn never worked anyway) and no blinkers and no headlight. it seems to me that since the headlight is automatic, it would work regardless of the left controls. So im assuming its something further back. i looked at a wiring diagram in a haynes manual and its like trying to figure out a rubiks cube. so yeah. i guess i may try the meter thing. but ill have to go out and buy one :/
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: Shadow Camaro on January 15, 2013, 02:24:39 PM
Also, i did accidentally leave the bik outside on the porch in the rain after the engine was pulled. could that have possibly damaged the wiring harness?
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: adidasguy on January 15, 2013, 03:02:33 PM
Headlight goes through left ha d control (i.e. HI/LOW beam switch)

Check that connector - seems it is not connected. Unplug it and re-connect it.

Rain would not harm things.
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: crzydood17 on January 15, 2013, 05:45:29 PM
has to be either that switch box or the connectors down the line from it. All roads lead through that switch box. Its pretty clear if you have no blinkers, no horn, no headlights, and no start that that would cause your problem. It would also show up in the fact that you have not high beam light or blinker light.

Send pictures of the connectors and make sure they are not corroded or rusted.
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: Shadow Camaro on January 16, 2013, 10:34:05 AM
Where can i find this switch box at? Im actually thinking of doing a complete wiring harness swap just to get this over with haha.
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: BockinBboy on January 16, 2013, 10:36:12 AM
A multimeter is much cheaper, and will be very useful for working on your bike... or anything electrical in the future.

- Bboy
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: adidasguy on January 16, 2013, 11:37:32 AM
OK - back to the issue. IS THE CONNECTOR PLUGGED IN?
Check it - show us a picture of it.
Follow the wires - you could have accidentally cut that cable. Follow from the left hand control down to the connector located under the right side of the tank.
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: adidasguy on January 18, 2013, 02:23:13 PM
So..... can you update us on your progress?
It helps others to know what your problem was - even if it was just a connector or something more.
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start
Post by: Shadow Camaro on April 03, 2013, 12:27:21 AM
hey guys! sorry for a super late update. So basically ive tried everything i can think of. I have disconnected and reconnected every single electrical connection on this bike. Nothing. I had an extra wiring harness so i did a complete swap, still nothing. I took apart the left hand controls and reassembled, nothing. I swapped the left hand controls out for a spare i have, nothing. You have no idea how bad this stresses me out. The only thing i can think now is that maybe one of those little fuse block looking things is bad. but ive swapped my spares in and out with those as well and nothing. Please someone help me :(.
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start (UPDATED)
Post by: codajastal on April 03, 2013, 12:38:12 AM
Have you tested the starter to see if its functional? I dont mean the button but the actual starter on the engine :dunno_black:
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start (UPDATED)
Post by: adidasguy on April 03, 2013, 12:49:09 AM
What happens when you turn the key?
If nothing, there are a couple things:
1. Battery not connected
2. Ground from battery not connected: it goes to the wiring harness and the engine block
3. Fuse bad: remember the REAL fuse is under the rubber cover, not the one in the open.
4. Ignition switch not connected properly

The thing to do is take your volt meter, along with the wiring diagram and start at the battery. With the key on, you should get lights somewhere. There should be +12 at the ignition switch.

The kill switch can shut down a lot.

The gear selector switch in combinition with the side stand switch will trip the side stand relay and will kill the bike if side stand down and in gear. So: side stand up and in neutral (if you can turn the rear wheel, you're in neutral).
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start (UPDATED)
Post by: Shadow Camaro on April 03, 2013, 12:39:23 PM
Im not sure how to check the starter. However, when i turn the key only the two lights on the left side turn on. the highbeam light nor the turn signal light will turn on, and the ignition button produces zero effect. No sounds or anything.
Also, when you talk about using a multimeter and doing the +12 thing, i literally have no idea how to do that. What is the process?
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start (UPDATED)
Post by: Badot on April 03, 2013, 01:12:20 PM
Check your left handlebar wiring... Turn signal light doesn't work, turn signal is on the left bar. High beam doesn't work, high beam switch is on the left bar. Starter doesn't work, clutch safety switch is on the left bar.
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start (UPDATED)
Post by: Shadow Camaro on April 05, 2013, 08:42:54 PM
I appreciate the suggestion but i literally just said a couple of posts up that I tried that already and even went as far as swapping in another set of hand controls and same problem.
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start (UPDATED)
Post by: adidasguy on April 05, 2013, 09:02:44 PM
Quote from: Shadow Camaro on April 03, 2013, 12:39:23 PM.
Also, when you talk about using a multimeter and doing the +12 thing, i literally have no idea how to do that. What is the process?
This, and many postings that are similar, makes me thing I need to do a basic electrical video. So I shall!
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start (UPDATED AGAIN)
Post by: Shadow Camaro on April 06, 2013, 05:44:24 PM
Okay guys so here's some awesome news. I fixed the electrical issue. Long story short, I was missing the second lead that connects to the negative battery terminal. Stupid. So everything was working electrically....

So I put the air box and tank back on and fired her up. Had a lot of smoke coming from the engine as it burned off all the moisture on the block that had accumulated as it sat on my back porch. I let it run and adjusted the idle and everything and it Leveled out fine at about 1200 rpm. So then I notice the engine getting louder... And it occurred to me that I forgot to check the oil. Nothing on the dipstick... So I panic and assume I've been running it with no oil (there's been long breaks in between steps so I thought I drained the oil and forgot to refill it). So I run to Walmart and grab oil. Come back and dump it in like an idiot! The engine wasn't out Of oil, just too low! So I overfilled it... Fml. Not by a little, but a lot.

Without realizing I overfilled it, I turned it on and it ran for a minute before dying. Then it would not longer start. Damn... So I checked oil and realized my mistake. Drained the oil and refilled. Won't start. Replaced possibly fouled plugs. Won't start. Adjusted idle all over the place. Won't start. I tried 100 times. Out of those times, 4 or 5 times it would crank for about 5 seconds and die.

So what's my problem guys? And what are my options? If it was running fine earlier then it couldn't be gas right? Or could it be that the carbs slowly gummed up from the gas that's been in the tank for like 6 months? Blah idk. Help me!
Title: Re: New Engine, Bike wont Start (UPDATED AGAIN. EUREKA! Then awwww...)
Post by: Shadow Camaro on April 07, 2013, 02:13:16 PM
Just cleaned the carbs and reinstalled. Same problem, won't start at all. The engine tries to crank but won't turn over.