I was on my way to work on my 2004 GS500f when my bike started having issues... firstly, it was loud like the engine wasn't burning all the fuel in the cylinder and it had next to no power. Also, it wouldn't go above 5,000 rpm and the valves were louder than usual. I have seen this before, where the bike gums up the spark plugs.But, at the stop >:( light, it just shut off... no smoke, no loud knock or bang. The starter engages, but won't even turn the engine over... and the battery has power!
Please help!
Check your spark plugs, are they fouled? Are you leaking any gas anywhere?
Is the bike stock, or have you done any mods to the fuel delivery/carbs/air/engine?
not sure what you mean by starter engages but wont turn the engine over. you mean its engaging but not firing?
Do you have gas in the tank? I mean - really have gas? Sometimes people thing there is plenty but they need to be on reserve. Reserve is one gallon - 1/5 of your tank.
A few things to check to narrow down the list.
Check plugs (as Mech has suggested already)
Check Float height using the U-tube bend method to ensure proper fuel delivery to carbs.
From there, you should have direction of whether it is an air or fuel problem...
If its fuel related, I'd be checking for spark first then move to the fuel delivery.
If its air related, I'd be checking air filter for blockages or massive leaks.
If its neither air or fuel, then you have bigger issues.. best case, electrical. worse case, compression.
Also, try to see if it will run on prime.
Additional info would helpful, such as. Maintenance history (oil changes, carb clean/sync, valve check, etc..) Air filter, carb jetting, etc..
- Bboy
Quote from: adidasguy on January 28, 2013, 11:16:38 AM
Do you have gas in the tank? I mean - really have gas? Sometimes people thing there is plenty but they need to be on reserve. Reserve is one gallon - 1/5 of your tank.
This was my first thought, too, when reading your initial post.
Almost sounds like you bent a valve. You say your engine is not turning over but the starter is engaging?
We should clarify terms:
"turn over" means the crankshaft is turning and pistons are moving.
"Starter Engage " means the starter clutch engages the crankshaft, attempting to turn it.
Any oil in it?
Last time I bought a bike from a guy where the starter engaged but wouldn't turn over the engine, it was because the engine was locked up.
Out of oil=symptoms as described
second the out of oil thing, if "not turning over" is meant to mean what I think it means.
It's got plenty of oil, which had been added the day before. No leaks... I tore the bike apart this past summer and replaced all the seals, petcocks and hoses, dismantled and cleaned out the carbs 4 times. It's good to go as far as everything goes except running. The starter is definitely engaging the crank shaft, but there is no engine rotation. It pretty much just stops and draws a lot of current... enough to almost kill the headlights. I've read a few other things and it does sound like I've bent a valve or broken a valve spring somehow. Would that keep the engine from turning over? I will try to put it on the center stand and turn the wheel in 6th gear tomorrow.
If the valve and piston are hitting each other then there is a mechanical failure and blockage. If the engine cannot spin, the starter wont make it spin. Try rotating the engine over my hand with a wrench
If you bent a valve then your engine would still turn over, it just would not fire up. I don't think its an oil problem, were you riding the bike very hard recently?
Put in neutral.
Take off the timing cover.
Turn clockwise with a 19mm wrench.
Can you turn the motor that way?
I prefer that over turning the rear wheel. Turning with the timing rotor turns just the engine. If on center stand, you can be in gear and it will also turn the rear wheel.
Quote from: adidasguy on January 28, 2013, 09:05:55 PM
Put in neutral.
Take off the timing cover.
Turn clockwise with a 19mm wrench.
Can you turn the motor that way?
I prefer that over turning the rear wheel. Turning with the timing rotor turns just the engine. If on center stand, you can be in gear and it will also turn the rear wheel.
This test will at least inform you and us if the engine is indeed the problem.
sounds like my cr250 when the lower con rod bearing shaZam! the bed......running fine, then bogged down and would not throttle up.....came to a stop and she stalled and would not restart.....
No spin on the tire! I will try to turn the crankshaft with the wrench, tomorrow. What will this tell me? I had to let the bike sit for a about 4 days because it snowed. When I rode it next, it wasn't running as well, but leveled out. Figured the carbs had just clogged a bit. It ran fine for about 9 miles, then seemed to have no power in the top 4,000 rpms. I figured it was another carb jet, so I ran it hard for a couple of miles. That's when it started making the weird noise and had less power. The oil light was on, but the oil wasn't too low as I found out when I added oil. It started perfectly three days later, but still had no power. Also, it was still making the noise above 3,000 rpms and wouldn't go above 5,000. It seemed to run while I was in gear, but died when I stopped in neutral and just wouldn't start again.
I never heard any loud pings or knocks or squeals/screeches. Also never saw or smelled any smoke. Shouldn't a mechanical failure like a seized piston, bad bearing, thrown rod, or shot valve make one of those?
Ya you should have heard some noise. But when you are running it hard it is quite loud and sometimes you cant hear the noise. Turning the crank shaft manually will at least let us know that your engine turns over and is not seized up. A very similar thing happened to my XS750s. I was riding along, running it hard trying to pass a big truck while merging on, and then I shifted gears and it started making a weird noise and bogged down with no power until I finally decided to stop, bike died wouldn't start again. Suspecting that something to do with the crank shaft broke, but cant find out till I have a fly wheel puller.
J: I bought a flywheel puller kit - though it doesn't really do anything for a GS500 - but has 6 or 8 different pullers. That might work for your other bike (if you should ever come to West Seattle). Saturday and Sunday might be good days.
AF: Oil light coming on is low oil pressure - even if you are full of oil. The oil pump could go bad, oil passages could get blocked. When the oil light came on - that was not a good thing.
You mentioned having added oil I think a few days prior to it not running, and you also mention now the oil light coming on. Those are two red flags.
The first, being just because its something that got tinkered with before the fault happened.
For me, that oil low pressure light came on exactly 3 seconds before my engine seized on me, lot of good that did me.
Check the oil, make sure you didnt do something silly like leave the drain plug out, or loose. Drain it, make sure there are no metal flakes in the oil, look real close, empty the pan and then check the pan, see if its sparkly. Sparkly = bad.
Put nice fresh oil in it. Worst you are out is 20 bucks and you rule that out completely.
When you turn key to ON, you have electrical (lights n such) right? (sorry if was already asked, maybe I got caught up on the oil)
Sounds like a bad battery to me. When my battery went, I had to push start it for a couple of days. On the last day of the old battery, I push started it and I couldn't get the RPM's over 4k. Lights flickering, I limped home at 10 mph for a mile. Popped in a new battery (shorai :bowdown:) and all was well.
Graham :2guns:
Quote from: AFGuy on January 29, 2013, 05:56:06 PM
I ran it hard for a couple of miles..That's when it started making the weird noise and had less power..The oil light was on, but the oil wasn't too low
:dunno_black:
You need to start looking for a replacement engine
Quote from: AFGuy on January 29, 2013, 05:56:06 PM
No spin on the tire! I will try to turn the crankshaft with the wrench, tomorrow. What will this tell me? I had to let the bike sit for a about 4 days because it snowed. When I rode it next, it wasn't running as well, but leveled out. Figured the carbs had just clogged a bit. It ran fine for about 9 miles, then seemed to have no power in the top 4,000 rpms. I figured it was another carb jet, so I ran it hard for a couple of miles. That's when it started making the weird noise and had less power. The oil light was on, but the oil wasn't too low as I found out when I added oil. It started perfectly three days later, but still had no power. Also, it was still making the noise above 3,000 rpms and wouldn't go above 5,000. It seemed to run while I was in gear, but died when I stopped in neutral and just wouldn't start again.
Sorry. I'm putting my money on you needing a new engine
I just tried turning the crank with the nut on the side of the crank case. Good news it that the engine is not seized! Bad news is that the crank won't move much. When I turn it clock-wise, it moves a bit, then begins to have tension. By the time the lobe on the disc is close to what I assume is an electrode, the tension is too great to crank anymore. If I turn the crank counter-clockwise, it moves a bit until the next lobe is close to the electrode and stop abruptly. Turning it counter-clockwise and using the starter moves it the same as what it will let me turn it.
What do you guys think?
I would guess a bent valve.
Remove the valve cover. Look at the cams while you crank. See which valve isn't letting you crank any further. (i.e which valve is it trying to push down when you can no longer turn the engine clockwise).
There will normally be tension as a valve is pressed down. That tension is what I call a soft tension. It gets more and more tension then suddenly goes away and the cam now is letting the valve come back up. It wouldn't be a "you can't crank anymore" type of tension. Sometimes that normal tension can seem like a lot.
It's like the 3rd time I said time for a new engine.
Look boss, if you have the tool and understanding, take it apart, diagnose and verify. If it's just the head replace it. If it is below the head, replace the engine.
We can guess all day long. In the end, you or someone else is going to have to take it apart and check k it out.
Where are you located again? Maybe we have some members close to you who can stop by and help?
I think.............you (still) need a replacement engine :thumb:
You have said the oil light came on, this means there was insufficient oil pressure within the lubrication system, when this happens bearings and journals overheat, pick-up and melt within seconds and the pistons start to overheat and stick in the bores. Upshot is it wont turn over smoothly and it will start making odd noises. This is almost certainly what has happened to yours and the fact the engine turns over by hand means nothing. Its how it turns over at 1000Krpm + that matters
Appreciate its not the answer you want to hear but there is no sugar-coating it, your engine has suffered some serious internal damage. :dunno_black:
What did I say in my first post?? Bent valve! Pow! :)
Although very inconvenient for you AF, GS500 engines are pretty available where ever you are for relatively cheap. Adidas, I have a meeting on Saturday, maybe I will head over on Sunday, its supposed to be a high of 53 degrees :woohoo:
Is the fly wheel puller specifically for motorcycles? I need a 4'' metric nut, forgot the exact size but I have it at home.
I'm in Yorktown, Va. I'm very good, mechanically... I've already resolved to tear it apart. Even if I weren't able to fix it, what good is a bad engine, right? May as well get experience out of it. Having said that, there is nothing that can't be fixed... short of cylinders fused to the cylinder walls, which I have seen. I'm reasonably confident that it is the valve train, which is completely replaced for $300 on Bikebandit.com. I will probably also install new piston rings and crank bearings while the engine is out of the bike. Although undeniably sound advice, I won't be replacing the engine... I paid $1,000 for this bike and have already made my money up in gas. I don't want to go back in the hole on an engine when I could sell what's left and buy another bike. Anyone hear about anything like a stroker kit for this bike? Just a thought while I'm at it, though it would be nice!
Thanks for all of your help! I will let you know what I find out!
Lol.... You'll find out really quick its easier and cheaper to replace the engine than trying to repair it. But hey, if you want a new head, I've got one that's complete ill sell cheap.
Quote from: jacob92icu on January 30, 2013, 07:29:05 PM
What did I say in my first post?? Bent valve! Pow! :)
Although very inconvenient for you AF, GS500 engines are pretty available where ever you are for relatively cheap. Adidas, I have a meeting on Saturday, maybe I will head over on Sunday, its supposed to be a high of 53 degrees :woohoo:
Is the fly wheel puller specifically for motorcycles? I need a 4'' metric nut, forgot the exact size but I have it at home.
I bought these two kits:
http://www.sears.com/otc4742-motorcycle-10-piece-flywheel-puller-set/p-00933363000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1
http://www.sears.com/shopzeus-motorcycle-repair-tool-kit/p-SPM5097455901?prdNo=3&blockNo=3&blockType=G3
I like to collect tools as much as GS500 parts.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I put it to you... How did a rock get in between my left intake valve and the piston head? I found it in there tonight and will be removing the cylinder head tomorrow morning! Let's hope this works!
So our next question would be.........what air filter are running on the back of the carbs because the only two ways in the engine are though the back of the carbs and through the spark plug hole