Hi guys, new to the forum, but I figured since all my bikes end up being builds/projects, this would be a good place to start.
So, I dont actually have a GS500 yet, although I have owned one (fixed/flipped it) . Thats kinda been my side project M/O for the last year, fix and flip broken or neglected bikes. I never really wanted a GS500 since I alrealy have a small bore standard in my GSF400. But this year I got the bug to build a custom,and Ive always liked the GS for being small,light and simple....and yet high tech enough to be modern. The frame is stout, yet takes a non-stressed member engine, the suspension is easily upgraded and the style is still pretty modern.The thing I never liked was the engine. Just adequate.... ya' know? Im sure Ill take a lot of flack, but I already have owned a ZX-12R, a 150HP FZR1000 and a TDM850, in addition to my GSF400,which is no slouch either. ...so I like a little more kick and character to my engines.
The GS500's engine just didnt speak to me, but Ive always admired the rest of the bike, so Ive decided to take on a project that has been in the back of my head for a while. My current fleet of bikes is lacking one thing.....a 2-stroke! Yep, my plan is to build a naked canyon carver much like my Bandit400 but with the sparten chassis of the GS500E,mated to a 3 cylinder GT380 engine. Small,light and simple will be the words of the day. Yes, I know it might actually be a DROP in hp from the stock GS engine, but the bike will be extensively stripped of all un-needed gear and all things remaining will be as light as possible. The GS chassis will be well suited to the 40 or so hp of the GT engine,and I dont plan to keep it totally stock either. Modern brakes, adjustable suspension, a good chassis,.....all things the 2 stroke bikes of the 70's lacked.
Heres my Bandit now, the GS380E project will follow similar lines with the suspension and brakes, but will only have what is completely necessary to be street legal as far as accessories are concerned.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/rentalguy/carbike004.jpg)
Welcome to the forum! Nice looking bandit. I don't understand if you don't like the engine in the gs500 then what do you think putting a smaller engine in and taking a bunch of weight off is going to do? Nonetheless, I'm still excited to see it! Good luck!
Welcome to the site
Thanks.
Its not so much about power, more like character. Circa early 90's the GS500E was fully modern in every aspect, except the engine. Every time it went up againt the competition (EX500) it lost out due to its powerplant's antique roots. Far be it for me to come on the GS forum and bash though, thats not why Im here. But the engine is the one part of this bike that never really excited me.
Like I said, the GS twin is adequate, but lacks a good rush. Taking off weight helps in every aspect of performance,so losing 20-30 lbs from the basic weight of the bike will pay dividends all around. The triples of the 70's are smooth,snarling little things that love to be flogged, but never had a good chassis in which to do so with any confidence (except in a straight line). If you want a modern-ish 2-stroke, your limited to the RZ350, and I have enough Yamahas!
Two strokes are peaky and lack lowend, but keeping the engine in its sweetspot while carving up a road is half the fun. Im quite used to that aspect of riding, since the Bandit has nobody home below 8K rpm yet is able to kick out 60hp between 12K and 14K where it is happiest. My FZR makes serious power at all levels, so riding it fast requires only 1 or 2 gears.While that can be addicting, it makes for sometime boring rides. I was actually most bored with the ZX-12! Its was insanely fast,and even handled well for its size, but I (not everyone) couldnt use it ALL on public roads......sold it because it was redundant.
Like they say, "Its more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow!"
Welcome.
Im curious about your weight loss techniques. How can I lose 20-30 pounds from my bike? lol
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=62193.0
Depends on how much you want to keep/spend!
It'll be kickstart only,so no need for starter,solenoid,wiring or a heavy battery. I run a Li battery in my Bandit that weighs about a pound. Starts up no problem, and its tiny. My 380 project will be able to use an even smaller,scooter type 12V battery since it will not be electric start. So, Ill lose the battery box under the seat and the switchgear on the right side. Lose the passenger pegs,grab bar and centerstand. Anything steel can be substituted with a aluminum replacement,.....sidestand,rear subframe, racing style gas cap, mirrors.....every little thing helps. Im hoping to find another aluminuim GSX-R400 swingarm like I have on the Bandit.
The stock GT380 is listed as being about 350lbs while the GS500 is about 390-ish.
Im not sure yet, but Im hoping the GT engine will be lighter than the GS twin which is a rather big engine physically. Seller listed the engine I bought as weighing just over 100lbs.
Exhaust will be 3-1 stainless which is much lighter than the factory GT pipes. Collected two-stroke exhausts boost lowend and midrange when done right,and that is important for responsiveness. Ill lose some topend, but thats OK since I dont want to prematurely wear out such an increasingly rare and pricey-to-fix engine.
Of course, there will be weight added too. Two-stroke oil tank, SV 650 rear wheel with a 160 tire (like the Bandit) and the requisite USD forks and big brakes (like the Bandit). Yes, the stock GS legs would probably be fine, but I rather like being able to brake with 1 finger in any situation, over and over again.
Welcome!
I have been dreaming of a build like this for ages. Please, go for it, keep us posted, and help me with a roadmap should I ever get around to doing it! :thumb:
You got it.
Unless I hit a serious snag, this project will come to light. Ive never owned a vehicle that wasnt a project, from my Samurai to my Studebaker! And I always join a forum relevant to my build to share the knowledge and learn. Should have my engine by Tues or Wed, now I just need to find a beat up GS to strip for its frame.....
Seems that the old GT engines are pretty availible still, although condition seems to vary quite a bit. They sold a lot of those bikes through the 70's, but with 2-stroke multi's being somewhat rare these days, I'm sure its getting costly to build cranks and find old exhaust systems.
I would have considered an RZ or Banshee engine for a more modern powerplant, but I really want a triple. I have a thumper,a twin,a pair of 4 bangers, a V-6 and two V-8s.......Just need a triple and maybe an old Audi 5000 and Ill have a straight! Too bad there isnt a 7 cylinder anything! :D
Signed up.
Where are you from Turbo?
Liking every bit of this! All sounds too promising not to subscribe. Can't wait till you find your GS frame and see her transplanted powerplant.
- Bboy
Im about 50 miles north of San Francisco.....Santa Rosa area.
Yea, its Wine Country. Cant say I drink the stuff, but there are lots of great curvy roads around here, from Hwy 1 along the coast, to St Helena Pass.
Im a heavy equipment mechanic and truck driver for a friend's rental company. Been there 18 years, so having access to welding and fabrication equipment is a big plus.
Nice ideas. I hope you do it and post lots of pictures. SOME people talk about doing engine swaps and never finish. Talk about annoying,...
Quote from: cbrfxr67 on February 12, 2013, 02:14:00 PM
Nice ideas. I hope you do it and post lots of pictures. SOME people talk about doing engine swaps and never finish. Talk about annoying,...
:icon_rolleyes: No idea who those 'some' people are... :whisper: cbrfx67
:icon_lol:
- Bboy
Heres a little sampling of my projects over the years. Im not rich by any means, I just preffer to finish my projects, rather than loose interest, even if it takes a decade. Luckily, my gal likes my toys too....so while I built many of them in my twenties, I can still enjoy them in my thirties.
The Bandit.... GSX-R suspension, SV650 rear wheel,Busa brakes,Beet stainless exhaust and all the typical engine mods.Older pic.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/rentalguy/b4001.jpg)
Old pic of the FZR1000. Now has 94' Ohlins frontend,Fox twin clicker,R1 muffler,Corbin,all white paint on the tail and nose with a Fox-eye front fairing and all the typical engine bolt ons.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/rentalguy/DSC01891.jpg)
My TDM has no pics yet, but sports Shinko knobbies, R6 brakes,Corbin seat, the muffler off my FZR, full hard luggage(custom), grip heaters and a GPS......and yes, I take it off road regularly. Its our two-up machine since she got sick of riding on the FZR.
My RX-7......12 year project, 350hp smog legal EFI 13BT w/TO4B turbo, SelectMaz brakes, RB suspension, Mariah widebody,took Best in Show at Sevenstock in 2005. Currently being re-painted after a 5 year ordeal with Dupont.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/rentalguy/DSC02046.jpg)
My Samurai.....smog legal 2.8L Chevy V-6,TBI, 4-1 Dana300, 44's with lockers, 33's, discs, and all the good stuff needed to destroy the Rubicon Trail and still be civil on the street. Over 20K miles on it since 2004.Thinking of painting it Cat yellow since I am a diesel tech.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/rentalguy/IMG_1872.jpg)
The ZX-12R......sold. Mostly stock. Fun bike, insane power, but I preffer my old FZR. Still looking for a modern EFI bike to add to my collection.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/rentalguy/zx121.jpg)
Heres a more recent pic of the FZR and TDM that she took.......
This is before the new frontend. Ive rode the hell out of this bike for over 10 years.....I bought that Corbin new!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/rentalguy/008.jpg)
The TDM is one of the greatest un-appreciated bikes ever made. Its heavier than a DP, but oh-so comfy and cheaper than a BMW.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/rentalguy/009.jpg)
Hey guys!
Well, I finally got a bike to start my project, and I think I did pretty well. Its actually nicer than what I needed and I prob spent more than I should have. But I figure Im only going to use the frame and a few other parts, so the rest can be sold off to re-coup my losses. A black on gray 96' with only 10K miles! The last reg sticker was 1997! I dont know if its been sitting this whole time or if the newer stickers were peeled off, but it appears to have little use, just some weathering. Im gonna fire up the engine tommorow to determine its condition, then out it goes, along with almost everything else! If anyone needs good parts, just give me a shout and Ill check. Ill put up a post in the "for sale" section as I strip the bike if no one calls dibs. The whole frontend can go, along with the entire engine and eventually the plastics and seat, since Im going to fit a Ducati Mono-posto aluminum subframe/seat. Still waiting on my GT380 engine, it got hung up with shipping but should be here in a week or so.......
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/rentalguy/gspics033.jpg)
Looks nicer than mine haha. Is the 2 tone on the engine from a gasket leak, or was part of the engine replaced? In assume the latter since the engine subframe bolts are gone.
The numbers all match,so its the original engine. Might have been exposure,maybe it was partially covered.....Ill find out tommorow.
The guy bought it from the original owner, the pink says 5 miles at time of issue. He had it for less than 2 weeks and was going to fix it up after it had sat a long time, but was told by a bike shop that the tank was wasted, so he decided to cut his losses. It wouldnt start so he began to pull the engine to fix it........yea......prob just needs carbs cleaned. The tank doesnt look too bad inside to me, but Im going to use a Bandit 400 "jelly mold" tank for style.
Honestly, I would have rather flipped this bike since its so nice and just built up my other GS that needed a new engine....but that was last year and this is now.
The engine runs great!
I didnt even drop the carbs, just left the drains open for a little while to flush the bowls. It started and idled nearly perfect, although the slides are a little stuck, the rpm's hold a bit before dropping.....no biggie. The oil is clean, gears all work and inside the clutch cover is all shiney.
So, barring any hold ups in the build, someone is going to end up with a very healthy 10K mile old engine. If the build cannot happen for whatever reason, she will get put back together, tuned and sold. There is no sign that this bike had been run or registered recently. The tank smelled horrible, although it holds gas and shows no signs of significant rot. The peg rubbers look new and the speedo works, so I know the milage is accurate. I think this bike just spent 16 years sitting after being ridden for its first year!
Nice! Ship it to me if nothing works out :icon_lol:
Jkin! Have you bought your GT380 engine yet? I am eager to see the beginings of the build.
The 380 is in the mail.
I got a great deal on a complete engine from a running barn bike....Ebay!
The best part was it came with the carbs and all the side covers. Ill run pod filters, so no airbox....electronic ignition so itll be reliable.....and kickstart for the nostalgia and weight savings. All I have to make from scratch is the exhaust system. I just hope cylinders 1 and 3 clear the GS frame loops or Ill have to notch/loop them out.
The seller underestimated the trouble of shipping a 100+lb engine,(needs handles on the crate for 2 guys) but I had already paid, so it was up to him to figure it out. Since I didnt have a bike yet, I told him I would'nt leave any negative feedback so long as the engine made it out to me within 2 weeks. We shall see....
For now I have video of the engine running for when I sell it off. Next week I will get the bike cleaned up and the basic stuff stripped. I dont want to do a full teardown until Im sure the new (old) engine will fit easily enough. If there is a serious problem with making the swap and I cannot move forward, then I will clean the bike up to its original glory and sell it.
I dont foresee that being an issue though. So long as at least one rear mount can be made to line up, the engine can be hung and the other mounts fabbed and welded to the frame. I think the 380 just has 3 mounts, two in back and one in the front. Whereas the GS has that one funky lower mount that goes through the oil sump and another tab mount ahead of that. Once the engine is mounted and the rear subframe modded, the frame will be repainted and the rest is just remove and replace.....and $$. :icon_eek:
Haha and $, hellz ya. Well good luck man, sounds like it will be a cool build. I don't know if I understood you right, you are taking out the electronic ignition and just rolling with a kick start right? Much less weight.
Electronic ignition trigger to replace the points (I can deal with points, but given the choice I'd rather ditch them)
The 380 was the only Suzuki triple engine to have kick only. The 550 and 750 were in direct competition with the CB750 and other 4-strokes, which all had electric start.....so they got it. They really dont need it, since 2-strokes were low compression and fairly easy to start.The 380 is pretty small and Ive seen guys kick them over with one hand. I would have gone kick only even if it did have an electric. Partly for the weight loss, but mostly for the cool factor.
This is awesome! Can't wait to see it, and great job on all those projects! I wish I was more versed in mechanics etc. and could do the same.. Maybe someday when I have more free time :) But great to see such commitment! Keep the updates coming!
She's all stripped down to her skivvies and ready for a test fit. Once the engine arrives I'll be able to do a prelim fitting to be sure this project can happen. Nothing like going in blind, right? :icon_confused:
Nekk'id.....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/rentalguy/DSC00039.jpg)
The lump....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/rentalguy/DSC00040.jpg)
Im fairly sure I will be able to make it work, but to safe Im stopping at this point to avoid extra work. The 380 appears to be a pretty small engine in all dimensions, especially height. So long as the length is good, it should be painless. If all is well, then the next step will be to fully strip the frame and then de-tab everything. I wont need many of the extra brackets like the mid engine mounts, airbox tabs and the kickstand safety switch boss....all dead weight. The simplicity of the frame/swingarm/suspension setup also has me thinking about a VFR750 single side swingarm out back. Yes, it wont be a Suzuki part but Honda was the only one to make an affordable SSS and there are a lot of them for sale. If the weight isnt outrageous, Im going to go for it.
The rear subframe will be truncated near the main frame until I procure a new aluminum unit. Im thinking of dropping the whole Ducati subframe plan back there....doesnt seem right, to flashy...plus its been done to death. Now Im leaning towards an SV1000 tail. Its still aluminum, will be cheaper and it keeps everything Suzuki. Plus, I can use a 98-00 SV650 fuel tank which has the carb'ed fuel line hookup. The Bandit 400's tank was cooler looking, but its too wide for the narrow GS frame. The SV bikes are thin around the frame and the tank is more tall and bulbous, which will fit me better since the GS is quite a small/short fit for my 6' 1" body.
Scratch the VFR SSS idea.
I'd LOVE to do it, and the research looked promising, but turns out they are very heavy. Adding 10lbs of unsprung weight is not an option no matter how cool it looks. Ill start looking for an aluminum GSX-R swinger or the like...... of course, a Ducati SSS might be light, given the nature of the bike. We shall see......
Yea......I saw...... and I know now what I must do......06-07, 600 fully braced, modern aluminum swingarms with all the hardware going for 50-60 bucks all day long.Youd have to be nuts to shell out the $$$ for the SSS!
The Ducati SSS were surprisingly cheap for what they are, but all of them mounted to the engine, since Ducati is so fond of the "less is more" idea, when it comes to frames. I actually feel sorry for all the guys trying to sell GSX-R swingarms on Ebay.....the asking price is only a few bucks more than the scrap value of the clean aluminum! A shame considering the beautiful design,craftmanship and welding that goes into making those things.....we shall see how much they weigh....and if its more than the stock GS swingarm, then Im going back to the 90's and their basic,extruded box section swingarms. This is a WeightWatchers build and I will not be swayed by style when lbs can be saved!
Lookie, lookie........
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/rentalguy/DSC00046.jpg)
Sorry,it was late in the day. But I couldnt resist stripping the excess stuff off the engine, and slotting her in the frame. As I expected, it was nearly a perfect fit. The lower rear mount almost lines up with no mods and the chain alignment is perfect. I figured since the GS engine has its roots in the 70's an engine from the same era would only need minor work to fit up. The 380 is about the same length, only about 1 inch wider and being a 2-stroke its a LOT shorter. It may be wishful thinking, but it feels quite a bit lighter too, although I wont know for sure until I break everything down and weigh it. I easily reached down and lifted it up in place though, the GS engine takes quite a bit more effort.
The final mounting looks like it will be very simple, the real challange will be the exhaust ports interfering with the downtubes. They are right in the way as I feared. I kinda want to think that the lower cradle tubes dont contribute to chassis stiffness, but since the GS engine is solid mounted, it may be that they do, along with the engine. Best case scenario would be to keep the rubber mounting on the 380 engine, then delete the lower cradle so that the exhaust isnt an issue. There is a fair amount of bracing and triangulation up near the headstock, so I might be able to just do some down tubes to make the front mount simple. I wont cut out the lower cradle until I do some research though......
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/rentalguy/DSC00050.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/rentalguy/DSC00048.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/rentalguy/DSC00049.jpg)
Uhhhg......I hate paperwork.
Well, I went to the DMV to take care of the title crap and was told there is 650 bucks of backed fees on this bike! SH*T!!
Prior to purchase, I ran the VIN and plates online and there were no issues. Despite that, the DMV refuses to drop any of the fees, saying I didnt do enough to verify the condition before purchase. If I sat in line for 3 hrs everytime I bought a project bike, Id never beat anyone to the good deals.....the online service is supposed to do all that, with no lines.
So............I need a new frame. Either to put all my pieces into and sell as a running bike to fund this project, or to use as a base for this project to proceed, and then just sell my engine and parts as I planned.
Anyone in Nor California got an old frame with clean or Non-op status? Dont care about year or condition, so long as it isnt completely wrecked.
Alright....back on track.
Thanks to Robert for the new frame I will have soon. Plus, its a newer frame thats already black, so no need to paint or powdercoat!
Should match up to the black GSXR600 swingarm Ill have soon too....
Think Ill just use the old 96' frame for test fitting tanks and subframes. In the end, itll just be scrap.....damn shame people dont take care of their fees before they get out of hand.
More pics, everyone likes pics, right?
Not much progress right now with the bike itself, waiting on the frame and dreading going to the DMV again.....but I digress....
GSXR600 swingarm....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/rentalguy/DSC00070.jpg)
Looks like it will be a pretty easy swap. About 1.25" longer than the GS500 swingarm and its featherlight! The pivot width is within about 3/8" and there is plenty of boss area around the pivot to machine off to narrow her down. Rather than machine out the frame, Ill probably just sleeve the GS500 pivot axle up, to fit inside the GSXR swingarm......
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/rentalguy/DSC00072.jpg)
GSXR shock.....fully adjustable for high and lowspeed damping, the same shock I use on the Bandit. Its cheap, availible, adjustable and installs easy enough.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/rentalguy/DSC00071.jpg)
Very nice, excited to see how this turns out!
Alright, another week or two and I can get back on track with this build.
Got my black 09' frame from AZ ready to accept the engine. Big thanks to rharding91 for that sell, I know you took a loss on it and I appreciate the effort you went through to get the frame to me.
Picked up another bare frame from a wrecker to accept all the 10K parts from my original 96' purchase this nightmare began with. Just throw that all together and sell it. Still a nice bike, 10,000 miles on everything including the donor frame,only downside is a salvage title. I have a clean title for the engine and running gear, so I can prove it wasnt wrecked or damaged.This was the easiest way to get around the 650 bucks in backed DMV fees.....Ill probably just break even.
I also picked up an 89' with an incredible 63,000 miles. Its not quite as clean, but its a clear title bike with lots of maintenence records and its complete.Got it just in case the other options didnt pan out. Since they did, Ill clean up, tune and sell that one for a fair price. Ill make a few bucks there so I can help fund the GS380 project.
Ill post both complete bikes with pics and specs on the "for sale" board once they are ready, in case anyone in Nor Cal is interested. Both bikes have up to date regs, are bone stock and will be fully tuned for the summer.
Sold the 89' right away, after a little tune and polish.
The 96' which appeared in the earlier pics, is now an 01' with a salvage title. Buying a new frame was the only way I could get around the ridiculous DMV fees. Its almost ready to go, just have to recover the seat and replace the fork seals. Ill post it up next week for anyone in the area who might be interested. Shouldnt have much trouble since it only has 10K miles and its in great shape.
Then I will finally be able to focus on the project that I originally wanted to do!
Already got a buyer lined up for the 01', so I wont be posting it for sale, sorry.
But at least all the distractions are out of the way and I can focus on the task at hand, getting the GS380 project moving forward!
More pics to come as progress is made, I promise it will come!
Extremely interested in the swing arm swap and how it turned out, Turbo.
I'd love to do that to my GS.
Quote from: Kness124 on May 08, 2013, 09:03:04 PM
Extremely interested in the swing arm swap and how it turned out, Turbo.
I'd love to do that to my GS.
I agree, definitely looking to do the gsxr swingarm swap as well as front end if easily done. I would love to see more pictures and if you could maybe describe with a little more detail how you got the swingarm to fit well? thanks!
Very cool build, my first bike was a GT380 ...... where is the RAM AIR cover? :D :cheers:
bump