Hi guys, just found my way here and I just bought a GS500F from a guy on Craigslist. It's an 05 for$1200 and the person i bought it off told me he replaced the motor with an earlier one when the previous owner spun the rod bearing. I didn't think much of it until I was browsing the forums and saw everyone say that the oil cooler was added because the fairings restrict the air flow and heat the engine.
So my question is, what exactly would be involved in getting the stock oil cooler to work on the E engine? He gave me the cooler and the oil pan.
The other option is to just to a naked conversion with the stock headlight (which i think looks sweet) but I worry that highway riding will be really tough. I live in San Diego and you have to get on the freeway to go anywhere. I also would need to replace the fork springs which i'm not sure how capable I am to do.
What do you guys think and thanks in advance for all your help and for having me on the board.
Quote from: ToneZone on February 10, 2013, 10:16:43 AM
I was browsing the forums and saw everyone say that the oil cooler was added because the fairings restrict the air flow and heat the engine.
Ha! this old chestnut? I say to those people...how exactly?
A fairing doesnt enclose the engine at the top where the hot air will rise to and it directs and forces cold air across it from the front when at speed :dunno_black:
Plenty of Es were sold across Europe with full fairings straight from the factory that didnt have coolers fitted. I have sold about 10 of them over the years and never heard of one overheating even on the hottest day. Made by TCP, this is the earlier version with the Aprillia twin light setup.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/T1z3R/gs500/DSC00909.jpg)
Fairing or not the engine has more than enough fin area to convect heat away and unless you ride in an extremely hot part of the world everyday and run with the cheapest oil in the world I wouldnt worry about it. Besides which if your bike does get too hot the symptoms will be obvious. It will stall and wont idle, be difficult to start and if it does it will run rough and loose power way before it suffers any permanant damage.
There is more air flow in the "F" fairing than the "E" fairing.
I do not think you will have any heat issues at all unless stranded in the desert at a stop light that never changed.
(The "E" fairing was also made by Five Stars, which I heard is the same company. The fairings are identical except for the dual headlight .vs. a single one that fits in exactly the same space and mounts the same)
I have to agree with sledge and adidasguy on this, the GSs are the coolest running bikes I have owned, much cooler running than the four air cooled Hondas I had previously.
You can search the forum for it, I think weedahoe added a cooler to an older engine and probably others. Not simple, would be expensive.
Also, I vote to forget the oil cooler and strip the bike naked and put on a small shield. I run my naked GS with a Spitfire shield summers and a big Plexi 2 winters here in NE Ohio. Spitfire should be more than enough for sunny southern CA. I've done many 400-500 mile interstate days on my GS with the small Spitfire and a FF helmet.
Quote from: gsJack on February 10, 2013, 12:06:11 PM
Also, I vote to forget the oil cooler and strip the bike naked and put on a small shield. I run my naked GS with a Spitfire shield summers and a big Plexi 2 winters here in NE Ohio. Spitfire should be more than enough for sunny southern CA. I've done many 400-500 mile interstate days on my GS with the small Spitfire and a FF helmet.
Yeah this may just be the solution, I got it as a first bike since the plastics are already busted up and I'm sure I'll drop it a couple times myself.
How hard is it to take the shield on and off? Maybe I could run it naked around town and if I'm going to take a little trip (my dad lives about 100 miles away, it's a great ride to his place) I could slap the shield on for the day. Does that sound plausible?
Thanks for all the answers guys, I was a little concerned about not having the oil cooler and I feel much better about my purchase.
Oh and will the lazy fork spring replacement (found here http://pantablo500.tripod.com/id2.html) work on an 05? It has clip ons so the triple tree top is different. The original owner scratched this crap out of them, I think he was trying to scrape them down to bare metal.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Only the top plate is different. The tripple tree is the same whether standard bard or the OEM clip-ons.
I've replaced fork springs that way when I knew the fork oil was new or just needed to swap one kind for another. It is fine.
Go naked or stay with the fairings. There is a whole front bracket holding the front on which has the headlight. You have to remove the front bracket and put headlight brackets on the forks.
Here's a video on removing teh sides. From there, you should be able to remove the front.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2lIhoUUewo&list=UUfopOgFUP9aRZNHRZ8GAXeg&index=9
Quote from: ToneZone on February 10, 2013, 12:41:25 PM
How hard is it to take the shield on and off? Maybe I could run it naked around town and if I'm going to take a little trip (my dad lives about 100 miles away, it's a great ride to his place) I could slap the shield on for the day. Does that sound plausible?
Easy with the right ones. The big National Cycle shield I use in winter can be remove by hand in a minute and put back on the same way with hand knobs and thumbscrews for that purpose. NC has some quick removal smaller shields too. The Slipstreamer Spitfire I use in the summer is an inexpensive one and the shield can be removed with thumbscrews even quicker as it come new with a two point mount but I've altered mine to have a rigid 4 point mount that takes a bit of time and an allen wrench. My shields:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/summer-winterGS.jpg)
http://www.nationalcycle.com/
http://www.slipstreamer.com/
Cool man, looks like it should be pretty easy. Bike is getting delivered in an hour.
And the lowers area already off the bike so getting the light off should be fine. I need to put a front tire on it so I wont be doing any riding in the immediate future (it's raining here). Plus the bike looks silly with just the upper on it.
Thanks again for all the advice guys.
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GSF headlight on a GSE
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=59927.msg688623#msg688623
Yay my bike arrived, took it down the street and realized I need some practice. Not riding since my msc has made me super tense on the bike!! Overall bike seemed to run well, i kept killing it at takeoff though because i didn't want to give it any gas.
I'm curious why you would need to replace springs if you remove fairings. I see no logic in this, except that the stock springs are too soft anyway but removing fairings would help slightly.
If you use the stock F light it can hit the fender if you bottom out the spring
(at least that is what i've read)
I as going to add an oem oil Cooper off an F into my first 94 E but Addidas mentioned the bottom half of the engine was different with additional passages for the routing of oil to the cooler. In the end, I never did it, sold the bike and bought an F with a bad engine. In that F engine I disassembled, I did notice (and take pics) of the differences in the lower half of the engine from E to F
Just a useful note, even though the engine shouldn't run too hot on you as-is, an oil cooler will increase the efficiency of your engine. I'm not saying it will save you $1000 over the life of your bike, but it will make you more eco-friendly.
Quote from: mcg2000 on February 10, 2013, 10:45:10 PM
Just a useful note, even though the engine shouldn't run too hot on you as-is, an oil cooler will increase the efficiency of your engine. I'm not saying it will save you $1000 over the life of your bike, but it will make you more eco-friendly.
How and why?
Quote from: Paulcet on February 10, 2013, 03:28:11 PM
I'm curious why you would need to replace springs if you remove fairings. I see no logic in this, except that the stock springs are too soft anyway but removing fairings would help slightly.
Yeah there is weight in the fairings... But nowhere near enough change to really make it a 'not change springs' situ... The inertial mass of the bike (I think inertial?) on braking or bumps can just overload the piss-weak OEM springs with or without the fairings... I've ridden both styles....of course my 300+ lbs contributed.... Slightly :oops:
To the original poster... welcome to gstwins! It appears that the original owner has installed OEM clip-ons from an '89, he also painted them. They come as you see in my profile pic. As to your spring question, it is highly recommended by many here to change the fork springs. I suggest going to sonicsprings.com and use their spring rate calculator, enter your riding weight and style of riding and they tell you what spring rate you need. Then you can decide whose springs to buy. Do some research here on our site, there is a wealth of information and knowledge on all aspects of these bikes. Oh and do yourself a huge favor, before turning a single bolt get yourself a repair manual.
The difference in the curb weights of a 2002 GS500 and a 2009 GS500F is only 16#. Hardly more than a good dinner adds. :icon_lol:
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Quote from: ToneZone on February 10, 2013, 10:16:43 AMSo my question is, what exactly would be involved in getting the stock oil cooler to work on the E engine? He gave me the cooler and the oil pan.
It's not possible. There are significant differences in the internal oil passageways between the E and F models. The only way to make it work is to swap the E guts into F cases. You'd also have to modify the frame to provide mounts for the F cooler.
Well it's an F frame but I have already scrapped the idea (anybody want to buy an oil cooler!! O0)
Quote from: sledge on February 11, 2013, 03:33:08 AM
Quote from: mcg2000 on February 10, 2013, 10:45:10 PM
Just a useful note, even though the engine shouldn't run too hot on you as-is, an oil cooler will increase the efficiency of your engine. I'm not saying it will save you $1000 over the life of your bike, but it will make you more eco-friendly.
How and why?
Well, to explain that would be a very in depth engineering lecture, but just know that a cooler engine runs more efficiently. Also, cooler intake air increases efficiency too. Basically, you want to avoid hot things (make them cool as possible for efficiency) if what's providing your power is the combustion of fuel and air.
This is why you see inter-coolers (heat exchangers like your radiator) on some air-intake systems. And, obviously, why oil-coolers exists.
If you really want to know why this is so, I will at least point you in the right direction. Pick up a used "thermodynamics" textbook for cheap and just check out a few chapters. The calculations will most likely bore you, so I recommend sticking to the descriptive paragraphs instead of the formulations. :cheers:
Quote from: mcg2000 on February 12, 2013, 09:24:48 AM
Well, to explain that would be a very in depth engineering lecture, but just know that a cooler engine runs more efficiently. Also, cooler intake air increases efficiency too. Basically, you want to avoid hot things (make them cool as possible for efficiency) if what's providing your power is the combustion of fuel and air.
This is why you see inter-coolers (heat exchangers like your radiator) on some air-intake systems. And, obviously, why oil-coolers exists.
If you really want to know why this is so, I will at least point you in the right direction. Pick up a used "thermodynamics" textbook for cheap and just check out a few chapters. The calculations will most likely bore you, so I recommend sticking to the descriptive paragraphs instead of the formulations. :cheers:
Interesting and probably far above my head. I also had pondered the benefits of adding some kind of oil cooler to my naked 02 GS given that I live in Australia and on some days it gets very very warm here. Sitting in traffic makes me sad for my little air cooled twin.
Based on some of other posts in this thread it sounds like the bike will probably outlast me on a hot day anyway.
Cheers for everyone's info!
Quote from: mcg2000 on February 12, 2013, 09:24:48 AM
Well, to explain that would be a very in depth engineering lecture....... SO TRY ME
but just know that a cooler engine runs more efficiently...... DEPENDS HOW COOL
Also, cooler intake air increases efficiency too...... AGREED BUT WHATS THIS GOT TO DO WITH OIL COOLERS?
Basically, you want to avoid hot things (make them cool as possible for efficiency) if what's providing your power is the combustion of fuel and air......... NOT TRUE, ENGINES NEED A MINIUM TEMP TO OPERATE EFFICIENTLY AND OPERATE WITHIN PARAMETERS
This is why you see inter-coolers (heat exchangers like your radiator) on some air-intake systems.... INTERCOOLERS COOL THE INCOMING AIR MAKING IT MORE DENSE, THIS ALLOWS MORE AIR/FUEL PER CHARGE AND IN TURN MORE POWER PER CYCLE.....
And, obviously, why oil-coolers exists...... OBVIOUSLY ?????.....OIL COOLERS COOL OIL, NOT THE INCOMING AIR
If you really want to know why this is so, I will at least point you in the right direction. Pick up a used "thermodynamics" textbook for cheap and just check out a few chapters. The calculations will most likely bore you, so I recommend sticking to the descriptive paragraphs instead of the formulations. IAM FAR TOO BUSY, WILL YOU DO IT PLEASE
Personaly I think you are confusing intercoolers and oil coolers and believe they do the same thing and serve the same purpose :dunno_black:
:cheers:
....meander wander dawdling ... Ooh lookit !! Fireworks!! .. Seat and popcorn time!! .. :icon_twisted:
... (Throws some Karmal candy popcorn at Sledge) .. Sic em Ken! :D
I thought the only reason that the newer GS's got an oil cooler is because other aircooled motorcycles have oil coolers in them...
Maybe also to run different types of oils (Dinosaur vs Synthetic, etc) which may be more affected by higher temps you would usually find in an aircooled engine...higher oil temps tend to be detrimental to lubrication (more viscous, less lubrication). Maybe the oil cooler was put on as a "just in case" rather than a "requirement".
I didn't need an aircooler on my first bike, even when the air temps would get into 50c/122F plus, pretty sure something as bulletproof as the GS can handle it...
If you are stationary, the oil cooler is only a place where another pint of oil can sit.
The oil cooler only functions when you are moving: i.e. air blowing across it.
Thing where a radiator is to dissipate heat have a fan to blow the air when you are stationary. Like the radiator on a Nina 250: there is a fan. Without the fan, the bike would overheat.
Same for our oil cooler's radiator. There is no fan on it. If you're stopped, it does a good amount of squat.
So maybe the radiator is there just for looks? If you are moving, enough air flows over the engine without needing the oil cooler.
Alright Sledge... initially I didn't want to explain it, but then I thought it'd be a good review for me.
First off, when I say cool temperatures, I mean the range of "cool" in engines, not ice. I know engines have a minimum safe operating temperature. As for your intercoolers interjection, you are right. However in addition to cool air having a higher density than hot air, it is also easier to compress. In a controlled volume compression process, such as a piston in a cylinder, hot air requires more energy to compress, thus putting more of a work load on the piston. Now, I assume you want a defending description for that. Here it goes. If we consider stage 1 being the piston at bottom dead center (BDC) with a cylinder full of uncompressed air, and stage 2 being the piston at top dead center (TDC) with the air now compressed fully (but not yet ignited), then we can describe the pressures and temperatures as T1, T2, P1, and P2. From what's referred to as the "Otto Cycle" (I recommend looking up pictures of the graphs of "Pressure versus Volume" and "Temperature versus Entropy"), which describes the 4-stroke engine combustion process, we can see that P1 is less than P2. When you increase the pressure of a controlled volume substance, such as that in a compression stroke of a piston from stage 1 to 2, the temperature of the substance also goes up. You can see this by comparing two corresponding P-V and T-s graphs. To calculate the efficiency of this process, the variable "eta," you simply apply the equation eta=1-(T1/T2). From the ratio of T1/T2, you can see that the larger T1 is, or the temperature of your incoming air, the less efficiency you have. Thus to increase efficiency from stage 1 to 2, you either must heighten T2 or lower T1, and since your compression will always result in the same P2 (ideally, but in reality it will vary so slightly that it's considered negligible), increasing T2 is not really viable. What is viable though is decreasing the inlet air temperature T1, and that's where the intercooler comes in.
Now, you said something about intercoolers versus coolers. Technically, they're all heat exchangers, meant to transfer heat energy to the air by means of convection. In fact, the oil cooler and an air intercooler are both transferring heat from fluids to another fluid, because gas (air) is a fluid (gas just further defines the state of fluidity, when applicable). I don't plan on searching through any text to find any equations relating engine oil temperature to efficiency, but here's an explanation. I saw someone on here mention that oil viscosity is affected, and that directly affects how well the engine is lubricated. This is true. If you take that one step further, you will see that a less lubricated engine will not only have more friction, but more wear as well. Friction is an opposing force which counters what you're trying to accomplish in an engine. Thus, the more friction there is, the less efficiency you have because the harder you have to work to get the same result. Note that you obviously must have friction in most, if not all engines for proper operation. But letting it get too high is bad (and I'm not talking about extremes such piston seizure). So applying this to our case, the heat exchanger (oil cooler) helps release some of the oil's heat to the ambient air, and as Adidas stated, stagnant air barely helps. So while he is right that sitting still doesn't help a heat exchanger much, it still makes a heck of a difference when you're moving. Trying not to break off too much on this tangent, the faster you're going on the bike, the more load is on the engine because of drag, or air resistance. The more load, or work, on the engine, the more heat it will produce. So at highway speeds, you can be dang sure that the oil cooler is doing a fantastic job.
Now, to say that the engine fins do fine without the cooler may be true, but I would assume that the oil cooler, as I said before, increases efficiency of the engine. To compare the efficiencies of an oil-cooled engine versus a non-oil-cooled engine would be a heck of a lot of calculations, and no one's paying me... so screw that.
So I will state this again, Sledge. Oil coolers and air intercoolers exists for the same reason, to increase efficiency. In the cases of extreme engine temperatures, a coolant system would be used, not an oil cooler (that would be a poor design choice).
Also, please don't ask me for proof of the equations such as the derivations. If you want information that in depth (and frankly boring), you gotta open up a textbook or look online. They all source from the 1st and 2nd law of thermodynamics.
Hopefully this helped the OP as well. I'm not all familiar with the oil pathways of an oil-cooled setup in a GS500, but I doubt you can install one without changing the engine block.... well, not same way as a stock one. You can always drill and pipe your own system, but I'm not recommending that either.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=62499.0
- Bboy
mcg2000,
I don't really have time to pick apart your comments, but I think you are somewhat off-base. It's fair to say that colder intake temperatures are better, but I don't think it's reasonable to say that engine's are more efficient when cool - there are efficiency trade-offs all over the place with engines; e.g. fuel tends to condense in a cold engine, resulting in a poor burn.
The oil cooler is beneficial in controlling the GS500's oil temperatures. There is a lot of reasonable belief that it was added to address cooling concerns when the fairings were introduced.
mcg2000, have you ever turned a wrench at a professional level on a internal combustion engine?
Quote from: mcg2000 on February 14, 2013, 01:06:06 PM
Alright Sledge... initially I didn't want to explain it, but then I thought it'd be a good review for me.
- snip a lot of stuff about cold air -
Now, to say that the engine fins do fine without the cooler may be true, but I would assume that the oil cooler, as I said before, increases efficiency of the engine. To compare the efficiencies of an oil-cooled engine versus a non-oil-cooled engine would be a heck of a lot of calculations, and no one's paying me... so screw that.
So after all that bloviating, still no
proof the
oil cooler is Needed, rather an admission you don't have a clue. Seems you didn't hand it to Sledge as you might have thought.
(http://i.imgur.com/u6STdba.gif)
Bloviating .. I like it.... (Checks to see if its real) ... It is!! :thumb:
Cheers Mister ... New word to use next week!! :D
This thread took a turn for the.... well...... it took a turn
Errr yeah... Sorry ... Kinda .... Sometimes it's fun to watch the 'techspec-ies' go at it though... Seeing who can shout their brand of right the most ...
"Give a home mechanic a completed project and suddenly it's like they worked 20 years wrenching in a factory team" ...
I do the very basic bits on my ride... Tried some more serious stuff and realised I don't have the patience for it ... So now I just appreciate everyone's ideas mostly ..... And most of the ideas/concepts would work.. Or do work ... But the path travelled varies... End of day if it works its ok
For OP, Just fyi, all earlier engines, I mean from the gs400's from 1980 to I think 2006 GS500 blocks were the same with regard to the oil passages.
After that the bottom half of the block was changed.
The bottom oil pan was fitted with oil in and out fittings and the bottom case has a few extra passages to allow oil to flow in and out using those fittings through the pan.
As to whether or not to install an oil cooler; I would. Its not necessary, this engine has survived just fine without it but a cooler engine is better no matter what. But for me that means changing blocks just to add a cooler. I'm still working on another way to do it using an external pump on a thermal switch and a cooler to circulate just what is sitting in the bottom of the engine.
hope this helps.
The current naked model GS500's sold in Australia are still sold without an oil cooler. Only the F model has them.
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on February 15, 2013, 08:23:59 PM
mcg2000, have you ever turned a wrench at a professional level on a internal combustion engine?
I'm not looking to prove anything on this site, as most anyone well knows an online debate will never end. I stated what I knew on the Otto cycle. Assume what you will about my mechanical experience. The whole point of that description was to help back up what I already tried to say earlier, and I'll state the final conclusion again. It's probably not worth putting an oil cooler on. Too much work, not enough benefits.
To keep this from becoming a "tard farm" post, I wont reply to anymore of these comments on what I've said. You either believe it or you don't. It's what I've learned in engineering and the engineering world is always evolving, so please, if you feels its wrong, look into it, prove it wrong or advance it, and help it evolve! The faster it evolves, the quicker I get to be a space man! :thumb:
Quote from: mcg2000 on February 12, 2013, 09:24:48 AM
Well, to explain that would be a very in depth engineering lecture, but just know that a cooler engine runs more efficiently. Also, cooler intake air increases efficiency too. Basically, you want to avoid hot things (make them cool as possible for efficiency) if what's providing your power is the combustion of fuel and air.
I was just curious about your mechanical background because your blanket statement above is more wrong than right, I came from at least 3 decades of carburated engines that required heat added to the intake to make them run correct/efficiently (out of the box) remove the hot air and they ran like crap.
Have you ever seen an engine with round vacuum diaphragms at the end of the snorkels? Their function is to do just the
opposite of your statement above..that's all I was getting at.
(http://home.comcast.net/~stykers/snorkle.jpg)
And on that note, Fuel Cooling Cans, Cold Air/Ram Air on a carburated engine is all about getting a colder more dense mixture of fuel/air into the cylinder for a bigger bang when lit....but it's not the most fuel efficient way to go, mileage wise.
(http://www.speedmaxperformance.com/Store/images/detailed/0/cansil10.jpg)
I might as well add this also...you can clearly see what warm air does for fuel efficiently. (at least for an '04 Prius?)
(http://john1701a.com/prius/images/data/Prius-2004_Seasonal-MPG-Averages.png)
Engine operating temperatures are the limiting factors. Those engines with the "snorkel" required hotter air to operate correctly. The Prius thing has way too many factors. It's not just ambient air, you also have the chemistry behind the battery life at different temperatures and all sorts of stuff (friction factors of the road, density of air for drag, etc.). The list goes on and on. Also, please don't take my "increase efficiencies" as some huge MPG increase. A increase in efficiency of the Otto cycle from 35% to 38% will barely reflect in the MPG's, especially in the range your graph shows.
I initially had this reply as something else because the difference between a carb intake and a fuel injected air intake sparked my interests, but I later realized that the Otto cycle efficiencies come strictly from compression in the cylinder, so it doesn't matter how it got there. I corrected myself but realized I could modify the posts, so I changed my next post to "disregard." I didn't want to leave this one blank and have 2 "disregard" posts with no explanation.
I really don't think any of us will come to an agreement though. So let's just agree to disagree.
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on February 17, 2013, 11:19:25 AM
Have you ever seen an engine with round vacuum diaphragms at the end of the snorkels? Their function is to do just the opposite of your statement above..that's all I was getting at.
(http://home.comcast.net/~stykers/snorkle.jpg)
I've seen those but don't forget the heat risers valves also used on cars back then that redirected the exhaust gases to heat the intake manafolds to heat the incoming air/fuel mix until the engine warmed and the riser valves opened.
The German guys made it by using an adapter and external filter.
http://gs-500.info/index.php?title=Montage_eines_%C3%96lk%C3%BChlers
They use a cooled GS for racing, works fine.
Quote from: cHa0s on February 19, 2013, 06:54:40 AM
The German guys made it by using an adapter and external filter.
http://gs-500.info/index.php?title=Montage_eines_%C3%96lk%C3%BChlers
They use a cooled GS for racing, works fine.
I don't understand German but that looks like the one Jim Knoff showed recently, sells for $275 shipped as I recall. When I started riding back in the 80's almost all bikes were air cooled and oil coolers like that were very popular and aftermarket one's from Lockhart and Deraille were available for most popular models at reasonable prices.
My 82 CB750K was the hottest running bike I ever had and I was not a very experienced rider then, it started crapping out early due to overheating. Got very hot when bogged down in traffic on hot summer days and also got very hot creeping along too slowly on a hot day due to reduced cooling air flow. I ended up putting a Lockhart oil cooler on it and got another good year out of it before I gave up on it.
The 2 GS500s I've put many years and miles on were/are the coolest running bikes I've had and the 2 air cooled 4 cylinder Hondas the hottest. I've never felt the need for an oil cooler on the GSs. I'd suggest anyone considering adding an oil cooler to a naked GS500 for normal street use should monitor their oil temp under their personal usage before adding one. A too cool running engine can be as bad as one that's too hot. I have no experience with racing a GS but have run my stock ones thru the mountain twisties holding 7-9k rpm for hours and they stay cool. Never a problem in summer traffic either.
UHMMM! I have a degree in high performance engine and chassis fabrication from Wyotech! Lemme get in on some of this!
1. The colder the intake charge the more dense the O2 the more fuel can be added to make the correct F/A ratio and thus the bigger the bang. That is why CAI and CO2/Nitrous sprayers for intercoolers exist.
2. The hotter the engine the better. An engine makes its power not by gasoline or o2 expanding. It makes its power by heating up the nitrogen in the air (80% of air generally) and that causes it to expand and push the piston down. The more heat the more expansion the more power. That is why high compression ratios that cause faster burns and hotter temps make more power. Coatings have been developed to make the cylinder keep as much heat as possible inside of it. The more heat it can keep from the burn the more power it will make. As most know almost all of the power of the engine (the heat) gets pushed out of the exhaust. Turbos help with this because they use the wasted power to push more air into the engine and keep the cycle going.
3. Heat is bad for emissions though. At some point NOx starts to form (nitrogen burns at around 2000 degrees or so). So they cool the engine down with water cooling to prevent this.
4. The reason carbs needed the tube coming off the headers was because the fuel had to go from the carb down the long intake runners and into the cylinders. This was hard when the engine was cold because the fuel would condense on the sides of the intake runners. This caused a lot of inefficiency and hard starts. With the advent of direct port and direct injection there is no need for this and the intake charge can be whatever temperature.
If there is something I did not cover here let me know. 8)
^^Hmm, I find this interesting enough... Can you comment on engine overheating? :cheers:
- Bboy
engines over heat because we design the lubrication system to a set of specification and that set of specification is determined by the engines use cooling (water/oil and air). That is normaly designed inside of the heat range of cheap oil products.
If you overheat an engine your expanding everything too much, metal starts to weaken and clearances start to warp. Also at super high temps cheap and weak oil starts to break down.
If you ever watch a top fuel dragster, they make so much heat that its not unburnt fuel coming out of the exhaust that makes the flame... they are literally setting the air on fire (remember the whole nitrogen burns thing). Remember we want the heat to stay inside of the cylinder and most of it does (or goes out the exhaust). That's where the awesome coatings come in! If you put a ceramic coating over the piston top it keeps the heat in, you coat the cylinders with some exotic materials, and the head with ceramic also. That all together makes the power charge (burnt fuel air and nitrogen) keep most of its heat while not transferring it to the block. The reason engines don't get crazy hot but the gases inside do is similar to how you can run a lighter over your skin and as long as it doesn't stay there long its okay.
i just woke up so dont hate me for punctuation.
Yeah, but I see nothing about oil cooler. So woohoo.... round two or three or four or NOT.
Where did I put my popcorn gif...
Can we now debate piston and engine coating products? (Where did I put my pocking with a stick gif?) :icon_mrgreen:
.
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(http://secularcafe.org/images/smilies/beatdeadhorse.gif)
Quote from: Twisted on February 22, 2013, 02:37:43 PM
(http://secularcafe.org/images/smilies/beatdeadhorse.gif)
Better than poking with a stick.
Popcorn. Woohoo.
What if you were riding on a treadmill?
Quote from: ToneZone on February 22, 2013, 04:45:31 PM
What if you were riding on a treadmill?
Then your an idiot :p