7, 8, 9k?
Still breaking it in- was curious where some of you more experienced riders will be on the tach when you kick it up a notch, especially interested in how you treat the lower gears.
It all depends on how I'm riding at the time. Can be at 10 thou sometimes, but usually it's around 7 or 8.
-Anti
well, when my bike was broken (torn diaphragm). I was shifting at like 10k because if i shifted below that it would fall out of the range in rpm i got power. Now that the stupid thing works (WOW POWER!) I can shift at like 7k and be good. But if im showin up the gimp in the saturn that wants to race me, i will still shift at like 10k. Also, I dont clutch to shift past 2nd gear (1 - 2 clutch, 2 -3 clutch, 3 + nothing :mrgreen: )
One little problem though.... Either Im not shifting in all the way, or something is seriously wrong. I've had the bike pop out of gear at like 80mph @ 9k or so, and just spike to redline. Which isnt good, it's happened twice, and let me tell you, thats a nasty sound. Anyone have any ideas?
That is a bad sound. I've hit the red a couple of times. Not good. I have had it stop running all together when costing down a hill on two occations also. I had the clutch in, and it quit on me. Another one to think about.
-Anti
I shift when she starts shrieking and rattling. :o
According to the tach on my 89 GS it shows 12000. Beyond that the valve springs can't handle it. But that's at the track.
On the street I'll shift around 5-6 grand general riding.
But I always use the clutch to shift. Even on my race bike. That's just me :roll: I feel it puts alot of strain on the tranny. It could posibly bend a shift fork. And when it jumps out of gear it will round off the posts on the gears and have trouble holding it in gear.
Perhaps thats your problem Briliu. I agree with Bob. I have yet to shidt w/o using my clutch. Thats what it's there for right?
-Anti
so the clutch just disengages the engine from drive train (tranny) right? Will you really run the risk of wearing out the drive-dogs on the tranny gears by not clutching. Clutch or not, the gear that you shift up into will engage the lower gear the same way right?
I'm curious about this phenomenon myself, because I've got a supersport now that I bought used. I'm a little apprehensive about pushing it because I know that people generally associate gears slipping with poor shifting technique causing gear-wear, but I still don't understand how clutching takes any stress off the drive dogs.
vtlion,
It doesn't. And that's why you can upshift without the clutch. The only real difference is that you chop the throttle when you do a clutchless shift, thereby removing the driving power from the dogs "allowing" them to "float" and you can shift. You're basically removing the driving power that connects the power from the crank to the clutch to the driving gear's dogs to the driven gear's doghouses to the rear wheel.
I usually shift at no lower than 5.5k in first and sixth, and 5k in all the others. And I downshift at 4k in all gears (using the clutch)(or I have to wait til 1.5k in second when coming to a stop, if I missed my shift).
Hope this helps!
i ALWAYS downshift with the clutch, first few times out i had a nasty noise when going from 2nd to 1st (using clutch) so now i just jam it down really hard.
When i do the clutchless upshift it sounds the same as if i were using the clutch, its just there is no loss of power. Slight upward pressure on the shifter just before you want to shift, then let off on the throttle and pullup hard (just like normal shifting) on the shifter and it pops in and away i go!
Funny thing is, first time i had it slip out was when i was on the freeway doing normal shifting (before i learned to do it without the clutch). 2nd time was after clutchless. Both were in 6th gear, it'd be reving up to accelerate, then just pop out and go REALLY loud. The gs doesnt have a rev limiter does it? Because the tach just jumped to 11.5 or something and bounced around there.
I am going to have to take it easy this spring and see if i can narrow down whats happening then try and fix it (be it either technique or mechanical)
If you're using the right shifting-technique with the clutch it will put a lot less stress on the drivetrain. If you shift without the clutch, more strain is put on the geardogs and they will round off sooner, causing the bike to pop out of gear. With clutchless upshifts you need to put more force on the shiftlever so you risk bending the shiftforks wich also causes popping out of gear.
When you shift the right way (with clutch) you will notice that you barely need to touch the shiftlever, it will almost automatically slip into the next gear. With some practice, you will be shifting as fast as when you do without a clutch. So there's not any reason to do clutchless upshifts other than wishing to destroy the bike. Clutchless downshifts are even worse.
Pulling the clutch in separates the crankshaft (driving power) from the transmission. When you shift, the only force on the dogteeth is from the rotating mass of the transmission gears. With clutchless upshifts there's always a bit of power transmitted from the crank, even if you chop the throttle partially. You will always hear and feel a louder "clank" than when using the clutch, especially at revs lower than 7-8000.
Eventually you can end up with a motor like I had in a parts GS450 I bought (same lower end). The guy must have thought not using the clutch was cool. The result is a shift dog that allows you to downshift into second, but not put any power there. Or you can upshift from 1st to 3rd really easy. I suggest not power shifting if you like your GS.
I would like to make absolutely clear that I do not advocate clutchless shifting, and I don't shift without the clutch.
Also, the reason why I shift at 5.5k from first to second is to overcome the rpm difference between the two gears and to keep the rpm's above 4k when I shift to second. And in the higher gears, to keep up the rpm's to have some decent power.
I say shift where you feel comfortable. I used to shift at anything below 6k because I was afraid I was going to break something. YOUR NOT HURTING anything by going up to 10k. Ask the racers here, they'll tell you that sometimes they are screaming in 5th gear doing 100+mph down the straightaway for a mile, then take corners and keep it screaming!
For me an average ride will consist of making sure the bike is warmed up, (say at least 5 mins riding down the road) then its game on. I was told that riding a MC is not just transportation, its a SPORT, because you have 1,000,000 people that can't see you and its your job to make sure they dont hit you when they are talking on their cellphone drinking coffe while reading the newspaper. So get your ass out there and have fun.
I dare you once you break in your bike to just wring it up to that 10krpm and feel it scream. And as long as you make sure that everything is in tune (valves, etc...) you wont be hurting a thing.
Just shift before the buzzing starts to come from the top of the engine. :mrgreen:
Always use the clutch when downshifting unless you like rebuilding transmissions. A lazy shift is worse than a clutchless shift. If you hit a false neutral and rev, a worn/bent dog is very likely. Make sure that you have it in gear before letting out the clutch. That is another reason I like GP shifting better, more positive up shifts. I have clutchless shifted alot on different bikes (and even my car) but limit it to only when needed. Also, don't pamper the bike during break-in.
Shifting up without the clutch is meant for the race track. The objective is to be able to hold the throttle wide open while shifting. To accomplish this, racebikes have devices that interrupt the ignition when the shift lever is moved. They can adjust the duration of the ignition cutoff for the ideal shift.
They also have undercut transmissions to minimize jumping out of gear.
During a race, this can accumulate fractions of a second and add up to quicker laps.
If you don't have a quickshifter setup on your bike, you have to back off the throttle to shift. You gain absolutely nothing by not using the clutch at the same time.
It is ok to do it on occasion though. I had the clutch slave cylinder go bad on my Ducati and I had to shift without a clutch to get home.
When breaking it in don't take it above 5 till 600 miles. Get it serviced then don't take it over 8 till around 1,000 miles. after that it depends on my mood. In the morning I need an adrenaline shot i'll take it to 8,9,10. If I'm low on gas or riding behind my dad usually 4,5,6. Really where ever you want.
If I have an open road in front of me and I'm accelerating ... I shift around 9-10k where I feel the power band is. Usually I don't shift at less than 7-8k. The bike just starts moving at around 5-6k for gosh-sake.
Break in period. There is a well known article on the web:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Taking it easy on your brand new bike may not be the best thing for your engine ... although it may save you from crashing. I think the idea of taking it easy on the motor for the first 1000kms is an old idea that hangs around because ... we always did it that way! Also, manufacturing quality has also improved over the years (although my friends $11, 000 Ducati had a metal chip inside the tranny which caused a wrecked transmission)
Why don't they run the damn things in at the factory?
Rob
Quote from: dgyverI have clutchless shifted alot on different bikes (and even my car) but limit it to only when needed.
How can you do that in a car :? Except when it has a sequential transmission (like a motorcycle, or... a rally car :P) it will take a lot of force to move the shiftlever and I don't want to imagine how the synchro-rings look after this :o
So taking a new bike to 7,8,9 isn't bad? So why print it. Just to keep new riders from getting squirly on their first time out? I remember I had 600 miles my first month and I never had my license for that just my learners.
I dont shift. I ride around in 2nd gear all day if im in the inner city. Stop lights and everything. When I ride out to my house on the far west edge of Calgary (highway mostly) I rail the shaZam! out of it. Never shifting below redline. I do however use only the best lubricants, filters, gasoline, and have more than needed maintnance done on it so I dont wreck too much.
If I'm riding hard I know I need to shift when I hear the valves start to float :o Still need to work on that. I TRY to shift around 10k when riding hard. Otherwise I keep it around 6-7k so I still have some power for dodging unobservant cagers.
Quote from: LarsQuote from: dgyverI have clutchless shifted alot on different bikes (and even my car) but limit it to only when needed.
How can you do that in a car :? Except when it has a sequential transmission (like a motorcycle, or... a rally car :P) it will take a lot of force to move the shiftlever and I don't want to imagine how the synchro-rings look after this :o
You can shift a normal transmission without the clutch. You have to put very light pressure on the shifter and it will shift. This can only work at a certain rpm, somewhere around 1800 in my car. The transmission and the engine are spinning at the same rpm and it just drops in gear without any grinding. Forcing it will grind the gears. I only did this because I had to.
The clutch bearing seized and the shop couldn't work on it for 4 days. I had to drive it with using the clutch as little as possible. When I finally got it into the shop, they had to push it into the bay. All of the fingers on the pressure plate were gone.
Theres a whole theory on why you should "trash" the engine when you first start riding.
Here is my brief and quick reference to it.
The cylinder walls are machined with little valleys/ridges to hold oil and when the piston rings slide over the valley that has oil in it it lets the piston slide by easily. If you baby the engine there isn't alot of force on the rings to the cylinder walls to get them to wear evenly into the wall. Whereas if you run the engine hard it will force the rings into the walls causing them to wear in together. The only main problem with not getting the rings to seat into the cylinders is lost compression, and maybe blow by, and higher oil consumption.
I know this isn't everything but I dont have the article handy.
Another theory is that most warrantys on motorcycles are for what a year? so say it takes you 3-4months to put on 600 miles, that means the manufacture only has to worry about the engine lasting another 8-9months before the new owner gets stuck with the bill. (unless of course you spend the $400 on the extra warranty)
Good points there. I'll keep that in mind when I buy my next bike come spring
Hey Rich500, where'd you get that them there Tanuki avatar? I know I've seen it somewhere! I'd run away like a little girl if I saw a giant tanuki with a set of monster nuts! Feared! :o
badgerbadgerbadger mushroommushroom
Oh, as for on topic... I shift at about 5 to 6k. Many times I shift earlier though, if I'm just puttering along and want to keep the racket and the vibrations down, keeping my rpm's pretty low. I usually don't shift up high unless I am accelerating on the highway :)
If your engine is going to blow up from running hard, it's gonna be in the first year. As Jeff said it's covered. I babied mine for about 100 miles, and then I couldn't take it anymore.
-Anti
yes, the manufacturers don't want to ziinging the 100HP motor into the atmosphere and leaving you wildly out of control. Oh wait, you only got 43hp. Same principle though. You can break a motor in within 3 rides but you have to do it right.
revving beyond 10k isn't smart. you're past the power anyway. there is no limiter on the GS but if you listen to the motor all of a sudden it sounds really awful and that means you had better shift, now!
clutchless shifts do no harm to your gears unless you're a complete maroon. What it DOES tend to bend are shift forks unless you're consistantly good at it. Yes, Yammie's round off their 2nd gear for no good reason but by in large shifting problems are with bent forks.