Motorcycles filtering is it legal :icon_question:
Also Lane splitting your thoughts :icon_question:
:dunno_black:
In California you can line split, in Kentucky you get a big fat ticket for unsafe driving etc. I see nothing wrong with line splitting and think it should be allowed in any large city etc. I don't think it should be allowed on the interstate unless traffic is at a stand still.
Quote from: wayne242 on March 19, 2013, 07:27:35 PM
In California you can line split, in Kentucky you get a big fat ticket for unsafe driving etc. I see nothing wrong with line splitting and think it should be allowed in any large city etc. I don't think it should be allowed on the interstate unless traffic is at a stand still.
I'm in QLD Australia...
Anyone know the ruling here?
I think it should be legal as why would you have a bike if you can't do it..
Helps with congestion too!
:thumb:
HA! they do random breath test over there, your not getting lane splitting :tongue2:
It's illegal in Qld. Depending on the place and the cop it's something like 2 or 3 hundred per car you pass. It's stupid it should be allowed at least in the south east. But if you play your cards right some smart lane changing you can get to the front.
It is illegal here Pete. But in saying that, I do it all the time and in front of police and have never been pulled over for it so it depends on how you do it and where you do it if the police want to ticket you.
see here is the problem, what you call it. there is no such thing as filtering or lane splitting, they are not defined in the traffic regulations. However overtaking is defined and the conditions under which it is allowed is also defined. So when I was pulled over last year for overtaking stationary vehicles at a red light, armed with a knowledge and an electronic copy of the traffic regulations, I successfully discussed and argued my point with the moto traffic copper (in Queensland). No ticket was issued.
Now this success hinged on two things, knowing the traffic regulations better than the traffic cop did (I am not a lawyer, just a very well versed person in traffic law) and making him aware that I was recording the conversation. Knowledge is power, so I had it over him in that regard and because he tried to change his story half way through our discussion he realised my recording would have shown his indecision in court, enough for reasonable doubt.
Quote from: ThatOtherGuy on March 19, 2013, 09:21:48 PM
see here is the problem, what you call it. there is no such thing as filtering or lane splitting, they are not defined in the traffic regulations. However overtaking is defined and the conditions under which it is allowed is also defined. So when I was pulled over last year for overtaking stationary vehicles at a red light, armed with a knowledge and an electronic copy of the traffic regulations, I successfully discussed and argued my point with the moto traffic copper (in Queensland). No ticket was issued.
Now this success hinged on two things, knowing the traffic regulations better than the traffic cop did (I am not a lawyer, just a very well versed person in traffic law) and making him aware that I was recording the conversation. Knowledge is power, so I had it over him in that regard and because he tried to change his story half way through our discussion he realised my recording would have shown his indecision in court, enough for reasonable doubt.
True .. I like it, just hope the same JACK (copper) dosen't hound you and get you for any little thing... I'm thinking just do what ya like , if ya get a ticket we always have SPUR here in Qld.. $5 a week to them revenue Gov't suckers and that is how they want the public on a trickle feed off $$ going to the Gov't in revenue!! :whisper: :bs:
There's actually about 6 things they can get you for....
Passing without indication, passing on the left, not travelling within a designated lane, travelling within 1 metre of another vehicle, umn that's 5.. but they add up.. ask the next bike cop who you see... he'll know.
Quote from: codajastal on March 19, 2013, 11:02:57 PM
There's actually about 6 things they can get you for....
Passing without indication, passing on the left, not travelling within a designated lane, travelling within 1 metre of another vehicle, umn that's 5.. but they add up.. ask the next bike cop who you see... he'll know.
He'll know all right :nono:
AUSTRALIAN FIRST LANE FILTERING TRIAL FOR MOTORCYCLISTS IN THE SYDNEY CBD
MEDIA RELEASE 18 October 2012 AUSTRALIAN FIRST LANE FILTERING TRIAL FOR MOTORCYCLISTS IN THE SYDNEY CBD.The NSW Government will allow motorcyclists to filter through stationary vehicles at CBD intersections to test if the practice improves traffic flow.
http://www.news.com.au/national-news/on-your-bike-motorbike-riders-may-be-allowed-to-ride-in-gap-between-cars/story-fndo4eg9-1226476525422
LANE splitting, in which of motorcyclists ride down the gap between lines of stalled traffic, could be legalised and even encouraged to help reduce congestion.
It annoys some motorists and in limited circumstances could be dangerous. But federal MPs in Canberra today were told it was an option that had to be considered.
And Victoria is close to permitting the practice, also known as "filtering".
Shaun Lennard, chairman of the Australian Motorcycle Council and chair the federal Motorcycle Safety Consultative Committee, said laws had to be changed to encourage more users of PTWs - powered two wheels.
"One initiative currently under consideration in Victoria is a trial of legalised filtering - that is, riding between stationery or very slow-moving lines of traffic," Mr Lennard said in a speech to MPs at a Canberra breakfast.
"This is a common practice in the majority of major cities, yet in most cases it is technically illegal.
"It's largely overlooked by police, and it's something that has worked for decades and makes sense. Some European countries have been looking at legitimising filtering."
Mr Lennard said London and Paris were making it easier for cyclists and motorcyclists to use the cities' roads, and that European research had shown traffic congestion could be eased by increasing PTW numbers.
But in Australia, "Last year we had the National Transport Commission release a detailed report on the future of transport in Australia, with all sorts of data and graphs showing changes and trends - a report which failed to make any reference to motorcycling.
"This despite the fact that the number of registered motorcycles had grown by 7 per cent per year for the previous decade."
A Belgian study last year looked at morning peak traffic on a major highway between a satellite city, Leuven, and Brussels.
Detailed modelling calculated that if 10 per cent of the car users had instead been on motorcycles, congestion would have been reduced by around 40 per cent - a major saving for all road users.
Mr Lennard said most Australian governments had not looked at similar policies despite a huge growth in the number of people - particularly women - now regularly riding motorbikes and scooters.
He said there had been "a dramatic increase in the number of motorcycles and scooters on the roads" in the past decade.
"In Australia, the number of registered motorcycles has almost doubled over the past 11 years to around 700,000. That's an annual increase of almost 7 per cent, which compares to an average annual increase in registrations across all vehicle types of around 3 per cent over the same period," said Mr Lennard.
"Over the past decade, there have been two key demographic areas where the number of riders has increased dramatically - firstly the number of female riders, and secondly in the number of people aged over 50 (both male and female).
"As many of the males over 50 years of age buying motorcycles are people who had ridden in their twenties, the tag returning riders is often applied collectively to this demographic.
"However a substantial number of male riders over 50 and almost all of the women riders are in fact new to motorcycling.
"Women have increasingly turned to motorcycling for both commuting and leisure purposes. It's been anecdotally reported that many women feel safer travelling to and from work by motorcycle than using public transport - literally riding to and from their own residence to the parking area of their place of employment.
"The average age of a learner motorcyclist across is Australia, from the last data I had a year or so ago, was 32.
"Scooter sales in Australia have been an area of significant growth. This has gone from around 600 new scooters a year in the 1990s, to a peak of over 15,000 new scooters three or four years ago, that has levelled now at still over 10,000 new scooters per year."
Quote from: codajastal on March 19, 2013, 11:08:16 PM
AUSTRALIAN FIRST LANE FILTERING TRIAL FOR MOTORCYCLISTS IN THE SYDNEY CBD
MEDIA RELEASE 18 October 2012 AUSTRALIAN FIRST LANE FILTERING TRIAL FOR MOTORCYCLISTS IN THE SYDNEY CBD.The NSW Government will allow motorcyclists to filter through stationary vehicles at CBD intersections to test if the practice improves traffic flow.
Ya doin ya home work Cods.. Yep I read that :D
Quote from: codajastal on March 19, 2013, 11:10:01 PM
http://www.news.com.au/national-news/on-your-bike-motorbike-riders-may-be-allowed-to-ride-in-gap-between-cars/story-fndo4eg9-1226476525422
LANE splitting, in which of motorcyclists ride down the gap between lines of stalled traffic, could be legalised and even encouraged to help reduce congestion.
It annoys some motorists and in limited circumstances could be dangerous. But federal MPs in Canberra today were told it was an option that had to be considered.
And Victoria is close to permitting the practice, also known as "filtering".
Shaun Lennard, chairman of the Australian Motorcycle Council and chair the federal Motorcycle Safety Consultative Committee, said laws had to be changed to encourage more users of PTWs - powered two wheels.
"One initiative currently under consideration in Victoria is a trial of legalised filtering - that is, riding between stationery or very slow-moving lines of traffic," Mr Lennard said in a speech to MPs at a Canberra breakfast.
"This is a common practice in the majority of major cities, yet in most cases it is technically illegal.
"It's largely overlooked by police, and it's something that has worked for decades and makes sense. Some European countries have been looking at legitimising filtering."
Mr Lennard said London and Paris were making it easier for cyclists and motorcyclists to use the cities' roads, and that European research had shown traffic congestion could be eased by increasing PTW numbers.
But in Australia, "Last year we had the National Transport Commission release a detailed report on the future of transport in Australia, with all sorts of data and graphs showing changes and trends - a report which failed to make any reference to motorcycling.
"This despite the fact that the number of registered motorcycles had grown by 7 per cent per year for the previous decade."
A Belgian study last year looked at morning peak traffic on a major highway between a satellite city, Leuven, and Brussels.
Detailed modelling calculated that if 10 per cent of the car users had instead been on motorcycles, congestion would have been reduced by around 40 per cent - a major saving for all road users.
Mr Lennard said most Australian governments had not looked at similar policies despite a huge growth in the number of people - particularly women - now regularly riding motorbikes and scooters.
He said there had been "a dramatic increase in the number of motorcycles and scooters on the roads" in the past decade.
"In Australia, the number of registered motorcycles has almost doubled over the past 11 years to around 700,000. That's an annual increase of almost 7 per cent, which compares to an average annual increase in registrations across all vehicle types of around 3 per cent over the same period," said Mr Lennard.
"Over the past decade, there have been two key demographic areas where the number of riders has increased dramatically - firstly the number of female riders, and secondly in the number of people aged over 50 (both male and female).
"As many of the males over 50 years of age buying motorcycles are people who had ridden in their twenties, the tag returning riders is often applied collectively to this demographic.
"However a substantial number of male riders over 50 and almost all of the women riders are in fact new to motorcycling.
"Women have increasingly turned to motorcycling for both commuting and leisure purposes. It's been anecdotally reported that many women feel safer travelling to and from work by motorcycle than using public transport - literally riding to and from their own residence to the parking area of their place of employment.
"The average age of a learner motorcyclist across is Australia, from the last data I had a year or so ago, was 32.
"Scooter sales in Australia have been an area of significant growth. This has gone from around 600 new scooters a year in the 1990s, to a peak of over 15,000 new scooters three or four years ago, that has levelled now at still over 10,000 new scooters per year."
Yep... So we'll just keep on keeping on and do what ever?
I still do it.........................carefully. :icon_lol:
Great so now we just hound Campbell and his clowns to do it here in Qld
Quote from: slipperymongoose on March 19, 2013, 11:29:12 PM
Great so now we just hound Campbell and his clowns to do it here in Qld
Yep the puppets... Do what ya like!!! :wink:
Seems legit
Quote from: codajastal on March 19, 2013, 11:02:57 PM
There's actually about 6 things they can get you for....
Passing without indication, passing on the left, not travelling within a designated lane, travelling within 1 metre of another vehicle, umn that's 5.. but they add up.. ask the next bike cop who you see... he'll know.
Can you cite the specific traffic regulations for any/all of those five? Aside from the indicator one, there is no regulations that I am aware of to support the other issues, well none that I cannot argue against successfully enough using the same traffic regulations to have them quashed.
Quote from: ThatOtherGuy on March 20, 2013, 01:16:24 AM
Quote from: codajastal on March 19, 2013, 11:02:57 PM
There's actually about 6 things they can get you for....
Passing without indication, passing on the left, not travelling within a designated lane, travelling within 1 metre of another vehicle, umn that's 5.. but they add up.. ask the next bike cop who you see... he'll know.
Can you cite the specific traffic regulations for any/all of those five? Aside from the indicator one, there is no regulations that I am aware of to support the other issues, well none that I cannot argue against successfully enough using the same traffic regulations to have them quashed.
That's it.. There is no law to say you are not allowed to do this.... So GF Jacks!!! :flipoff:
Quote from: ThatOtherGuy on March 20, 2013, 01:16:24 AM
Quote from: codajastal on March 19, 2013, 11:02:57 PM
There's actually about 6 things they can get you for....
Passing without indication, passing on the left, not travelling within a designated lane, travelling within 1 metre of another vehicle, umn that's 5.. but they add up.. ask the next bike cop who you see... he'll know.
Can you cite the specific traffic regulations for any/all of those five? Aside from the indicator one, there is no regulations that I am aware of to support the other issues, well none that I cannot argue against successfully enough using the same traffic regulations to have them quashed.
sorry i didnt write that. i was quoting someone else
Quote from: codajastal on March 20, 2013, 01:37:37 AM
Quote from: ThatOtherGuy on March 20, 2013, 01:16:24 AM
Quote from: codajastal on March 19, 2013, 11:02:57 PM
There's actually about 6 things they can get you for....
Passing without indication, passing on the left, not travelling within a designated lane, travelling within 1 metre of another vehicle, umn that's 5.. but they add up.. ask the next bike cop who you see... he'll know.
Can you cite the specific traffic regulations for any/all of those five? Aside from the indicator one, there is no regulations that I am aware of to support the other issues, well none that I cannot argue against successfully enough using the same traffic regulations to have them quashed.
sorry i didnt write that. i was quoting someone else
Your opinion Cods :icon_question:
QuoteLockers
Active Members
Posts: 1103
(No subject)
« Reply #15 on: 18, October, 2004, 09:16:43 AM »
There's actually about 6 things they can get you for....
Passing without indication, passing on the left, not travelling within a designated lane, travelling within 1 metre of another vehicle, umn that's 5.. but they add up.. ask the next bike cop who you see... he'll know...
« Last Edit: 01, January, 1970, 10:00:00 AM by Lockers »
My opinion is .....if the cops want to bust you for it they will. if they cannot get you specifically for that they will find something else to get you for.
Just found this though
http://www.bikeraware.com/rr_lane_splitting.htm
Road Rules ~ Lane Splitting
Lane Splitting or Lane Filtering:
"Lane Filtering" is still legal in all states of Australia although there are some technicalities that some police may book a biker for doing this. This may depend on the discretion of the policeman at the time, taking into account the speed you are doing and the other vehicles around you, if you are sharing the same lane as another vehicle which is also moving or passing to the left of a vehicle. If the policeman thinks that you are riding dangerously or recklessly among moving traffic he will most likely book you.
"Lane Splitting" is when a motorcycle travels between other cars in moving traffic. He/she is more likely to be booked for this especially if they are changing lanes without indicating or overtaking in the same lane or to the left of a car.
Quote from: codajastal on March 20, 2013, 01:44:48 AM
QuoteLockers
Active Members
Posts: 1103
(No subject)
« Reply #15 on: 18, October, 2004, 09:16:43 AM »
There's actually about 6 things they can get you for....
Passing without indication, passing on the left, not travelling within a designated lane, travelling within 1 metre of another vehicle, umn that's 5.. but they add up.. ask the next bike cop who you see... he'll know...
« Last Edit: 01, January, 1970, 10:00:00 AM by Lockers »
My opinion is .....if the cops want to bust you for it they will. if they cannot get you specifically for that they will find something else to get you for.
Course they will.. So we just run with whatever our gut tells us... That really is the law in this case, just do what ya got to do. Face the consequence as they accrue! No biggie really Cods. :cheers:
CURRENT QLD ROAD RULES
http://pan.search.qld.gov.au/search/click.cgi?url=http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/Motorcycle%20safety/Riders%20Guide/2012%20Guide/Section3Rulesforriders.pdf&rank=1&collection=qld-gov
Lane splitting/filtering
It is dangerous to overtake between two vehicles travelling
side by side-in-the same direction on a multilane road,
irrespective of whether the vehicles are moving (lane splitting)
or stationary(lane filtering). The only exception to this is if the
vehicles travelling side-by-side are motorcycles.
Lane splitting or filtering riders may commit offences, such
as failing to stay within a single marked lane, keeping a safe
distance when overtaking or overtaking to the left of a vehicle.
It is also dangerous when the traffic is congested or stationary
(e.g. peak hour or stopped for traffic lights etc.). The handle
bar only has to clip a car's exterior mirror and the motorcycle
rider will lose control. Drivers can be taken by surprise,
especially when moving, and can make reflex manoeuvres that
result in a crash.
Quote from: codajastal on March 20, 2013, 01:54:11 AM
CURRENT QLD ROAD RULES
http://pan.search.qld.gov.au/search/click.cgi?url=http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/Motorcycle%20safety/Riders%20Guide/2012%20Guide/Section3Rulesforriders.pdf&rank=1&collection=qld-gov
Lane splitting/filtering
It is dangerous to overtake between two vehicles travelling
side by side-in-the same direction on a multilane road,
irrespective of whether the vehicles are moving (lane splitting)
or stationary(lane filtering). The only exception to this is if the
vehicles travelling side-by-side are motorcycles.
Lane splitting or filtering riders may commit offences, such
as failing to stay within a single marked lane, keeping a safe
distance when overtaking or overtaking to the left of a vehicle.
It is also dangerous when the traffic is congested or stationary
(e.g. peak hour or stopped for traffic lights etc.). The handle
bar only has to clip a car's exterior mirror and the motorcycle
rider will lose control. Drivers can be taken by surprise,
especially when moving, and can make reflex manoeuvres that
result in a crash.
A bit of common sense and run with your gut Cods.. All good! :woohoo:
Quote from: peterscotts on March 20, 2013, 01:59:11 AM
A bit of common sense and run with your gut Cods.. All good! :woohoo:
Well its not illegal so I say go for it..............................carefully :icon_twisted:
Quote from: codajastal on March 20, 2013, 02:03:30 AM
Quote from: peterscotts on March 20, 2013, 01:59:11 AM
A bit of common sense and run with your gut Cods.. All good! :woohoo:
Well its not illegal so I say go for it..............................carefully :icon_twisted:
OK we'll put it to rest... Amen! :bowdown: :thumb:
Legal here in Cali.
Haven't had a chance to try it as I'm still developing my riding skills.
Should be legal everywhere. Get enough people and revolt!!!!!
Or get a politician to write something up the next time you vote. Turns out even civilians can submit items to be voted upon.
Firstly... Pete... when did I miss your arrival here? Great to see another local GS Twinner :D In Brissie somewhere?
I split in certain locations, but only when traffic is stationary. I have certain points in my commute where it's become necessary to avoid missing three changes of traffic lights or more.
My big concern really is being on an air cooled bike in stationary traffic in summer... that will not end well unless I shut the bike off or get some air flow happening.
Here in San Diego, 5 o'clock traffic is a pain, so I filter and lane split all the way home. :flipoff:
After talking with a HWY patrol officer at work, I learned that as long as the police feel that you lane split/filter safely, they don't really care. EXCEPT motorcycle police, who have a hard-on for bugging anyone on the road.
I heard Nevada is in talks of legalizing lane splitting. I hope it happens. The benefits are overwhelming and the dangers are overstated.
Legal here in Belgium, as long as you respect certain obvious rules:
Traffic has to be moving slowly (<50 kph) and the difference in speed between motorcycle and cars can never exceed 20 kph.
In other words: cars standing still: filtering at 20kph.
I do it all the time, though you'll never see me cutting through moving traffic: when speeds near 50kmh your best bet is to just get in line.
Interesting vid on the subject:
I do it when i need to......the occasional car driver take it personally >:( but i'm not stopping them from getting a bike.
Quote from: fetor56 on March 20, 2013, 03:19:51 PM
I do it when i need to......the occasional car driver take it personally >:( but i'm not stopping them from getting a bike.
How TRUE! :thumb:
Quote from: codajastal on March 20, 2013, 01:54:11 AM
CURRENT QLD ROAD RULES
http://pan.search.qld.gov.au/search/click.cgi?url=http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/Motorcycle%20safety/Riders%20Guide/2012%20Guide/Section3Rulesforriders.pdf&rank=1&collection=qld-gov
Lane splitting/filtering
It is dangerous to overtake between two vehicles travelling
side by side-in-the same direction on a multilane road,
irrespective of whether the vehicles are moving (lane splitting)
or stationary(lane filtering). The only exception to this is if the
vehicles travelling side-by-side are motorcycles.
Lane splitting or filtering riders may commit offences, such
as failing to stay within a single marked lane, keeping a safe
distance when overtaking or overtaking to the left of a vehicle.
It is also dangerous when the traffic is congested or stationary
(e.g. peak hour or stopped for traffic lights etc.). The handle
bar only has to clip a car's exterior mirror and the motorcycle
rider will lose control. Drivers can be taken by surprise,
especially when moving, and can make reflex manoeuvres that
result in a crash.
.... So ... I'm reading it as.... drivers should be better trained and pay more attention so they don't 'get taken by surprise' ... Go .... BlehblehAAAARRRRRRGH!!! .. Stomp on the gas and wrench the wheel sideways to avoid getting ass raped by the big bad rider?! ...
Yep .... Better driver awareness training and promotion of calm acceptance!! .... That's sure to catch on!! :icon_rolleyes: ;)
Quote from: W79 on March 20, 2013, 03:01:22 PM
Legal here in Belgium, as long as you respect certain obvious rules:
Traffic has to be moving slowly (<50 kph) and the difference in speed between motorcycle and cars can never exceed 20 kph.
In other words: cars standing still: filtering at 20kph.
I do it all the time, though you'll never see me cutting through moving traffic: when speeds near 50kmh your best bet is to just get in line.
Interesting vid on the subject:
Great video... Thanks for sharing! :cheers:
Quote from: codajastal on March 20, 2013, 01:54:11 AM
CURRENT QLD ROAD RULES
http://pan.search.qld.gov.au/search/click.cgi?url=http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/Motorcycle%20safety/Riders%20Guide/2012%20Guide/Section3Rulesforriders.pdf&rank=1&collection=qld-gov
Lane splitting/filtering
It is dangerous to overtake between two vehicles travelling
side by side-in-the same direction on a multilane road,
irrespective of whether the vehicles are moving (lane splitting)
or stationary(lane filtering). The only exception to this is if the
vehicles travelling side-by-side are motorcycles.
Lane splitting or filtering riders may commit offences, such
as failing to stay within a single marked lane, keeping a safe
distance when overtaking or overtaking to the left of a vehicle.
It is also dangerous when the traffic is congested or stationary
(e.g. peak hour or stopped for traffic lights etc.). The handle
bar only has to clip a car's exterior mirror and the motorcycle
rider will lose control. Drivers can be taken by surprise,
especially when moving, and can make reflex manoeuvres that
result in a crash.
The only problem with stuff like this is that it is not something you can rely upon, it is a paraphrasing and interpretation of the traffic regulations and often will represent an opinion of the department or the government in power at the time. The only thing you can rely upon is the actual traffic regulations ie the law. Refer to Palmer V. Ostrowski for case law that went all the way to the High Court about relying on anything other than law itself. No information from a website, pamphlet or any other source can be relied upon unless it is a direct quote of the law itself.
That was taken direct from the Qld gov road rules website? I thought that was the law?
Sent from my iPad
unfortunately not, its an interpretation, the traffic regulations are all you can rely on and your interpretation of them. the giveaway is that they talk about filtering, which is not defined in the regulations. when I had my discussion with the copper last year he kept trying to get me to say I was filtering, I just kept saying I wasn't as there is no definition for that term in the regulations so I could not say I was doing something that does not exist in the law. I asked him to find it and off course he couldn't so how can I admit to something that does not exist?
Ok I'm now officially confused
Sent from my iPad
I realize this is pretty much an Aussie thread, but... I'll fill in some blanks for the U.S. regarding Illinois...
In my state, lane sharing/filtering/etc... is not directly outlined in the law. In the motorcycle handbook, it has a short paragraph saying that it is unsafe, but does not say it is illegal. However, most lane laws are interpretted by safety of the various lane manuevers... so an officer can still ding you no problem because there are other laws regarding lane usage and safety that would inevitably deem your manuever as an unsafe driving violation. You might be able to get away with it, but if you are stopped and issued a ticket for unsafe driving, or improper lane usage you won't win in court... Unless you can word in your favor the only two mentions of two-wheeled vehicles in the vehicle code regarding passing and lane usage listed in Chapter 11 Article VII... and you would have to prove that your manuever was safer than any another alternative... but I wouldn't bank on it, as I have never heard of anyone getting away with it after being issued a ticket. The general concensus is don't try it... and motorcyclists as a group do not in Illinios... in the MSF courses, they tell you don't do it and explain how you can be issued a ticket.
The two mentions in the vehicle code are (paraphrased slightly):
1.) Two-wheeled vehicles cannot pass a vehicle on the right hand side after passing on the left unless there is open, unobstructed paved lane to the right of the vehicle being passed...
Basically, you can't weave in and out of vehicles through traffic on a motorcycle...
2.) Two-wheeled vehicles cannot pass a vehicle on the right hand side with no less than 8 feet of unobstructed pavement to the right of the vehicle...
Basically, this is referring to safe passing on the right through driver blind spots... you cannot enter a blindspot on the right of a vehicle without 8 feet to manuever safely into a mirror zone or out of the way if the driver doesn't see you...
A buddy of mine rode a ninja 650 in college, and he was actually ticketed for this... A driver was signaling left in front of him, but had not slowed for turning yet at the next intersection. There was an unoccupied construction area, with a small cone setup in the right half of the right hand lane... the rider sped up with a rev in the engine (annoyed by the driver signaling forever and getting the attention of authority) and passed on the right, in the right hand lane that had the small cones covering a hole on the right half of the lane... there was a cop at the intersection in which the driver was turning left onto, and that cop saw it... Cop must have had a real bad day, but he pulled him over and issued him a ticket actually citing the obstruction in the lane he used to pass on the right hand side of the vehicle... there was not any merge left or construction signs prior to the marked hole in the road, but it was clearly, and visibly marked obstruction in the road... he tried to fight it, but this scenario almost directly followed the vehicle code violation, and he entered a blind spot with no way out..
It's super frustrating, but he was wrong to manuever the way he did from a safety standpoint, just sucks that he was actually issued a ticket for it, as the most any other cop would do is warn him and tell him to ride safer if they even would pull him over at all... I suppose you can equate it to the seatbelt laws... you'll get ticket for not using it, and its enforced for your own safety... just as this 8 feet passing on the right is enforced for your own safety, and you'll get ticketed for not giving yourself those 8 feet...
- Bboy
I live in CA and with only a few hundred miles under my belt i'm too chicken to filter or split
I would say that you are not too chicken, but too wise to filter :thumb:... As a new rider, you definitely should not try it... you need to get the skills to manuever your bike before you even think about manuevering your bike within feet of cages and other dangerous variables you cannot control out on the road.
- Bboy
cods, its actually fairly simple, use the advisory information from pamphlets and websites as a guide, but remember the law trumps all of that. people including the police, yourself, lawyers, government departments etc can interpret the law and write down their interpretations and publish them, but they are just opinion, again another word I emphasised when discussing my situation with this copper last year. I emphasised his interpretation of the law and my actions was his opinion and not fact, just as my interpretation was my opinion. The only opinion that counts is the judge, but even they can be wrong and you can appeal if you feel such.
Quote from: ThatOtherGuy on March 21, 2013, 01:28:47 PM
cods, its actually fairly simple, use the advisory information from pamphlets and websites as a guide, but remember the law trumps all of that. people including the police, yourself, lawyers, government departments etc can interpret the law and write down their interpretations and publish them, but they are just opinion, again another word I emphasised when discussing my situation with this copper last year. I emphasised his interpretation of the law and my actions was his opinion and not fact, just as my interpretation was my opinion. The only opinion that counts is the judge, but even they can be wrong and you can appeal if you feel such.
Still confused?
So can you legally do it in QLD or not?
Can you shoot up the middle of traffic at a stopped red light or up the left side in same situation?
short answer for all of Australia... NO you cant do it..
they have been trialing a filtering rules system in SYD CBD recently for peak hour and such .. which is a positive sign ..
i would think they have thoughts of similar trials elsewhere .. but once the bureaucrats have hold of something it becomes a inter-generational thing usually!!
i've seen filtering while traffic stopped at light .. with plenty of room... blind eye by the Bronze .. same but limited room , then a squidly full power takeoff .. noticed by the Bronze!!! very much noticed!! ..
also seen bikes heading down the left fog line on freeway while traffic was at standstill from accident .. nice calm slow progress by bikes .. Blind Eye by the Bronze ... however a few minutes later when another couple bikes came down the right side fogline .. at high speed (80+ .. not FAST but traffic WAS stopped) .. Bronze pulled them ...
thinking the overall concept is 'permissable' .. so long as you dont draw TOO MUCH ATTENTION to yourself by being a dickhead at the same time? ... and as T.O.G keeps mentioning... if you do it.. and do get pulled and questioned.. you need to have a silver tongue!! , (at least) SOUND like you know completely what the rules are .. or ARE NOT! .. be calm and polite with 'the nice officer' and hope like hell!!..
Everyone EVER that ive heard was lippy/mouthy/smartass to the po-po .. they got delayed longer AND ticketed anyway! ..
i personally have done all slow and steady left side fogline in stopped traffic moves.. and have got just a glance here and there .. mates on same ride were Zippy McZipster!! ... they had cars swerve at or move to block them.. doors opened in their path .. questions from officials.. and got to the next checkpoint all annoyed and pissed off... I pootled up couple mins later having had a nice day!!... :dunno_black:
LEGALLY NO .. NOT YET .. Morally?.. hmmm maybe?
Oh well, like I said before I do it all the time and have never been pulled up for it BUT I always do it slowly and carefully and dont act like a squidly.
I think what's being said is it doesn't exist but if you are pulled over they will try to make you admit to it which then they have a choice of fines to ping u with
State side, this is the best post i have read on the subject:
Quote from: Yaroslav Shakula
Lane Splitting Law Is A Legal Grey Area
By Yaroslav Shakula
There is no absolutely universal legal view on lane splitting, because lane splitting law varies from each state to the next. Even within a single state, lane splitting law tends to be far more complex than many of the other kinds of legislation that restrict how drivers and motorcycle riders can behave. Lane splitting in California is legal in many circumstances, but not in all circumstances, so whether a biker is cited for illegal lane splitting in California has as much to do with what kind of mood a police officer is in as it does with the realities of lane splitting law. Lane splitting law is one of the greyest areas of ambiguity in modern laws that govern the safe use of vehicles, so it is little wonder then that there is a lot of confusion about lane splitting law among driver, motorcycle riders, and even among lawyers and other law professionals.
Even in states where lane splitting is legal, most motorcycle riders who are concerned with being very prudent about their safety and making sure that they are within the confines of the law avoid lane splitting at all because it is such a grey area in terms of law and in terms of safety. Lane splitting law is complex, but the most important decision that a motorcycle rider makes about lane splitting shouldn't be whether it is legal in a given situation, but rather whether it is safe. Lane splitting is often very dangerous, and even in the cleanest and clearest of circumstances lane splitting can lead to an accident if things go even slightly awry.
Although lane splitting is legal in some states like California, California bikers might find it prudent to take a cue from other states on this matter. The fact that lane splitting is technically legal in California under most circumstances does not mean that it is a safe practice. One of the most dangerous things about lane splitting is that many automobile drivers do not know how to safely interact with motorcycle riders, so lane splitting can make drivers panic and do things that are unpredictable and often cause injury or even death to motorcycle riders who were technically behaving within their legal rights. It is important to remember that legal lane splitting isn't always safe lane splitting, so although it is important to follow lane splitting law it is even more important to follow your common sense when deciding whether to lane split on your bike or not.
There is a lot of debate among the motorcycle riding community and among drivers about whether current lane splitting law is satisfactory. Some people feel that current lane splitting law is too loose and not restrictive enough about lane splitting. There are even individuals and groups calling for a national ban on lane splitting under any circumstances. However, there are also plenty of individuals and groups who believe that lane splitting can be safely practiced, and that there should be more of an effort to educate motorcycle riders and divers about how to split lanes safely without causing accidents. Whatever your personal views on lane splitting may be, it is almost certainly true that lane splitting law is one of the most complex areas of law surrounding the practices of drivers and motorcycle riders.
Yaroslav Shakula is the editor-in-chief of I Hate This site which is probably the best place for people to vent their feelings and reviews on almost anything.
Quote from: slipperymongoose on March 21, 2013, 10:03:26 PM
I think what's being said is it doesn't exist but if you are pulled over they will try to make you admit to it which then they have a choice of fines to ping u with
That's basically it, they will try to ping you with a "S140 No overtaking unless safe to do so" violation. I objected saying it was safe and it was only his opinion, not fact that it was not. When I beat him on that front (he even tried to change his story on what he observed), he then tried on the "S141 No overtaking etc. to the left of a vehicle" violation. I said that was not possible as it was firstly legal to do and he had already conceded my overtaking was safe. So even though he wanted to issue a ticket I argued successfully that he couldn't and enough so that if it went to court, his own words would have the ticket quashed.
Quote from: ThatOtherGuy on March 22, 2013, 01:09:07 AM
Quote from: slipperymongoose on March 21, 2013, 10:03:26 PM
I think what's being said is it doesn't exist but if you are pulled over they will try to make you admit to it which then they have a choice of fines to ping u with
That's basically it, they will try to ping you with a "S140 No overtaking unless safe to do so" violation. I objected saying it was safe and it was only his opinion, not fact that it was not. When I beat him on that front (he even tried to change his story on what he observed), he then tried on the "S141 No overtaking etc. to the left of a vehicle" violation. I said that was not possible as it was firstly legal to do and he had already conceded my overtaking was safe. So even though he wanted to issue a ticket I argued successfully that he couldn't and enough so that if it went to court, his own words would have the ticket quashed.
Most will just give you a ticket and let court deal with it. After all an officers word is held higher then yours our mine. Which is why you rarely see a motovloger on utube get a ticket etc (they have video). Personally getting a cam for my helmet later down the road when its full blown riding time.
Quote from: wayne242 on March 22, 2013, 01:54:23 AM
Quote from: ThatOtherGuy on March 22, 2013, 01:09:07 AM
Quote from: slipperymongoose on March 21, 2013, 10:03:26 PM
I think what's being said is it doesn't exist but if you are pulled over they will try to make you admit to it which then they have a choice of fines to ping u with
That's basically it, they will try to ping you with a "S140 No overtaking unless safe to do so" violation. I objected saying it was safe and it was only his opinion, not fact that it was not. When I beat him on that front (he even tried to change his story on what he observed), he then tried on the "S141 No overtaking etc. to the left of a vehicle" violation. I said that was not possible as it was firstly legal to do and he had already conceded my overtaking was safe. So even though he wanted to issue a ticket I argued successfully that he couldn't and enough so that if it went to court, his own words would have the ticket quashed.
Most will just give you a ticket and let court deal with it. After all an officers word is held higher then yours our mine. Which is why you rarely see a motovloger on utube get a ticket etc (they have video). Personally getting a cam for my helmet later down the road when its full blown riding time.
You'll only get a ticket if they stick to one story and they think they have the only recording of the exchange. Trust me, best way to piss off a copper is visually show them you are recording the exchange you are having, you'll have them on their best behaviour when they realise they can be caught out. This copper I encountered tried to change his story, I called him on it, he realised and backed off. Maybe I was lucky. But one thing you should always do is record the conversation, it is your best weapon and your best defense. Best part is if it goes to court, they have to provide you with their recording and every piece of information they wish to introduce in court, but you are not required to give them a single thing.
Oh and their word carries no more weight than your own, they are just more practised at it than most people. They develop their story and stick to it. As long as you do the same it is just their word against your own.
Quote from: ThatOtherGuy on March 22, 2013, 04:33:51 AM
Quote from: wayne242 on March 22, 2013, 01:54:23 AM
Quote from: ThatOtherGuy on March 22, 2013, 01:09:07 AM
Quote from: slipperymongoose on March 21, 2013, 10:03:26 PM
I think what's being said is it doesn't exist but if you are pulled over they will try to make you admit to it which then they have a choice of fines to ping u with
That's basically it, they will try to ping you with a "S140 No overtaking unless safe to do so" violation. I objected saying it was safe and it was only his opinion, not fact that it was not. When I beat him on that front (he even tried to change his story on what he observed), he then tried on the "S141 No overtaking etc. to the left of a vehicle" violation. I said that was not possible as it was firstly legal to do and he had already conceded my overtaking was safe. So even though he wanted to issue a ticket I argued successfully that he couldn't and enough so that if it went to court, his own words would have the ticket quashed.
Most will just give you a ticket and let court deal with it. After all an officers word is held higher then yours our mine. Which is why you rarely see a motovloger on utube get a ticket etc (they have video). Personally getting a cam for my helmet later down the road when its full blown riding time.
You'll only get a ticket if they stick to one story and they think they have the only recording of the exchange. Trust me, best way to piss off a copper is visually show them you are recording the exchange you are having, you'll have them on their best behaviour when they realise they can be caught out. This copper I encountered tried to change his story, I called him on it, he realised and backed off. Maybe I was lucky. But one thing you should always do is record the conversation, it is your best weapon and your best defense. Best part is if it goes to court, they have to provide you with their recording and every piece of information they wish to introduce in court, but you are not required to give them a single thing.
Oh and their word carries no more weight than your own, they are just more practised at it than most people. They develop their story and stick to it. As long as you do the same it is just their word against your own.
No, The're word holds more weight. So if you don't have proof its going in the're favor(its an honor system). Hint why i said i plan on getting a cam later for my helmet. However i KNOW not every cop is dishonest and an a-hole, but i do Acknowledge there is a few out there. Mostly if you encounter an a-hole cop, you can probably thank the person he stopped be for you.
Well I won a case with me (my word) against two cops, a cops wife and her two daughters and the cops recording of the exchange between us which they had cut the threats from. So I will agree to disagree that their word holds more weight.
Quote from: ThatOtherGuy on March 22, 2013, 04:54:55 AM
Well I won a case with me (my word) against two cops, a cops wife and her two daughters and the cops recording of the exchange between us which they had cut the threats from. So I will agree to disagree that their word holds more weight.
....... you HAD video/recordings to back up your statements which you clearly said. I'm talking about word vs word with out having PROOF, i thought "I plan on getting a cam later" hinted at that fact. Overall its just open discussion, I'm not disagreeing that you did not get a ticket etc but rather in general for
those who have no proof, in that event the officers word his held higher on the honor system.
:cheers:
Quote from: wayne242 on March 22, 2013, 05:37:53 AM
Quote from: ThatOtherGuy on March 22, 2013, 04:54:55 AM
Well I won a case with me (my word) against two cops, a cops wife and her two daughters and the cops recording of the exchange between us which they had cut the threats from. So I will agree to disagree that their word holds more weight.
....... you HAD video/recordings to back up your statements which you clearly said. I'm talking about word vs word with out having PROOF, i thought "I plan on getting a cam later" hinted at that fact. Overall its just open discussion, I'm not disagreeing that you did not get a ticket etc but rather in general for those who have no proof, in that event the officers word his held higher on the honor system.
:cheers:
I had nothing but my word, the police had their audio recording which they had altered ie left of the end of the recording, it only supported their version of what happened. This case (it was a criminal matter by the way) was a completely different situation to the filtering discussion I earlier referred to. It was this case that lead to me deciding to recording all conversations with police.