Hi, I've searched the forum and searched online and I can't seem to find out the dimensions of the new GSX650F rear shocks vs. the GSX600 shocks that we know fit our GS500E. Ebay seems to have a glut of affordable, nearly-new GSX650F shocks for comparable prices to higher-mileage, corroded GSX600 shocks.
Does anyone have a measurement for these? Has anyone tried putting one on his/her GS500? Thanks!
i dunno about the spring rate or anything... but i do know this... from looking at pictures of both shocks.... on the 650 one the preload adjuster is completely at the other end of the unit!!... plus the donut shaped attachment bit ... and the U shaped attachment bit are reversed also...
no i aint being funny.... when you look at the central 'shock' piston bit.... cos the spring is 'wrapped around' that ... all the mounting points and the preload collar are wrong end compared to the central piston bit...
which may be fine!!! ... however i think t least the preload adjuster being at other end may cause havoc??.... or it could be better?... dont have my bike at work to peer into for "access to theoretical preload" evaluation..
looks alright to me?
GSX650F
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjAw/z/uwAAAOxyjK1RD-gg/$(KGrHqF,!lEFDwl5wbzwBRD-gghNTw~~60_12.JPG)
GSX600
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/NOUAAMXQwKdReb0u/$(KGrHqIOKosFFz43uMFiBReb0uFpo!~~60_3.JPG)
yeah cods.. all the bits are there.... but look at the actual positions in relation to centre piston?... should still work ok yeah... but the preload is at other end on the 650 unit??... and the U piece .. (clevis?) looks like alloy as opposed to steel .. make a difference?....
i'm not saying the thing wont work... just that its kinda back to front?
It's worth a try. If it doesn't fit, he can always throw it back on ebay and get his $ back. :cheers:
For $25, I guess I could be the guinea-pig. This bike won't be street-ready for a while anyway.
Why not get an R6? It's a much better shock.
Does the R6 fit with the stock airbox?
I ended up buying a somewhat clean 2004 Katana 600 shock for about $45 shipped. Decided that until I have a workshop, I'd rather just have something I can bolt in and ride. Next up is the fork rebuild, which I may hire a shop to do because (again) I don't have a garage in which to work. I plan on getting RaceTech springs put in, probably .85kg rate. I'm about 162 lbs without gear.
Quote from: Slack on May 01, 2013, 01:56:16 PM
Why not get an R6? It's a much better shock.
Quote from: BeerIsSoAwesome on May 01, 2013, 10:30:26 PM
Does the R6 fit with the stock airbox?
Yes it does
Sent while taking a dump
Does it raise the rear end or require any modifications to the actual bike? I thought the only straight bolt-in was the Katana, which is why I just ordered one. I totally would have gone for the R6 shock had I known. What years should I look for?
EDIT: I found a race forum that concluded the R6 shock is a potentially excellent platform if you're willing to rebuild it with expensive stuff, but that the Katana shock is much better in stock form and works great on the track without any mods. I'll be sticking with that one for now.
I just recently did the R6 rear shock (off a 2008 model) and resprung my forks. Awesome upgrade, especially for the price ($75 shipped for the shock, $100 for the fork springs). I'd do it again in a second.
P.S. The R6 shock requires NO modifications whatsoever and can be installed/removed without removing any bodywork. The only thing I had to do was put a 4" thick block of wood under the centerstand to get the back of the bike that much further off the ground so the rear wheel would drop.
What a brilliant idea. Idiot me removed the battery tray and airbox in preparation for pulling the stock shock. A thousand times d'oh.
Quote from: J banning on May 02, 2013, 02:05:23 PM
I just recently did the R6 rear shock (off a 2008 model) and resprung my forks. Awesome upgrade, especially for the price ($75 shipped for the shock, $100 for the fork springs). I'd do it again in a second.
P.S. The R6 shock requires NO modifications whatsoever and can be installed/removed without removing any bodywork. The only thing I had to do was put a 4" thick block of wood under the centerstand to get the back of the bike that much further off the ground so the rear wheel would drop.
Quote from: BeerIsSoAwesome on May 02, 2013, 09:27:54 AM
Does it raise the rear end or require any modifications to the actual bike? I thought the only straight bolt-in was the Katana, which is why I just ordered one. I totally would have gone for the R6 shock had I known. What years should I look for?
EDIT: I found a race forum that concluded the R6 shock is a potentially excellent platform if you're willing to rebuild it with expensive stuff, but that the Katana shock is much better in stock form and works great on the track without any mods. I'll be sticking with that one for now.
It seems that you have them mixed up. The Katana shock will raise the rear end up a bit, the R6 won't. The Katana is only preload adjustable, the R6 is 4 way adjustable, giving you a much better track shock. And, if you get good enough that you feel you need a better shock you can rebuild the R6 and upgrade the internals.
Ill throw my 2c in. R6 ftw, it was an easy upgrade to do, for a cheap price you get a huge handling performance upgrade. Plus with the amount of R6's out there you can upgrade the stock internals and really start scraping pegs. Best thing is there is a step by step video as well
This is the comment I was using for reference:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=52334.msg593727#msg593727
(http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=52334.msg593727#msg593727)
Coincidentally, I've been watching burning1's youtube videos in which he smokes shiny new 600's in the twisty bits on a GS500 rat-bike with bone-stock motor, pipe and jetting. According to this post (made back in 2010, mind you) the R6 shock is very soft compared to the Katana, however it *can* be turned into a great shock with some work.
So I'm going with a fork rebuild up front with .85kg springs and a shock from a 2004 Katana 600, and if I want something more aggressive I can look into R6 shocks down the line.
Quote from: Slack on May 02, 2013, 03:27:51 PM
Quote from: BeerIsSoAwesome on May 02, 2013, 09:27:54 AM
Does it raise the rear end or require any modifications to the actual bike? I thought the only straight bolt-in was the Katana, which is why I just ordered one. I totally would have gone for the R6 shock had I known. What years should I look for?
EDIT: I found a race forum that concluded the R6 shock is a potentially excellent platform if you're willing to rebuild it with expensive stuff, but that the Katana shock is much better in stock form and works great on the track without any mods. I'll be sticking with that one for now.
It seems that you have them mixed up. The Katana shock will raise the rear end up a bit, the R6 won't. The Katana is only preload adjustable, the R6 is 4 way adjustable, giving you a much better track shock. And, if you get good enough that you feel you need a better shock you can rebuild the R6 and upgrade the internals.
Quote from: BeerIsSoAwesome on May 02, 2013, 04:06:48 PM
This is the comment I was using for reference:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=52334.msg593727#msg593727
(http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=52334.msg593727#msg593727)
Coincidentally, I've been watching burning1's youtube videos in which he smokes shiny new 600's in the twisty bits on a GS500 rat-bike with bone-stock motor, pipe and jetting. According to this post (made back in 2010, mind you) the R6 shock is very soft compared to the Katana, however it *can* be turned into a great shock with some work.
So I'm going with a fork rebuild up front with .85kg springs and a shock from a 2004 Katana 600, and if I want something more aggressive I can look into R6 shocks down the line.
Quote from: Slack on May 02, 2013, 03:27:51 PM
Quote from: BeerIsSoAwesome on May 02, 2013, 09:27:54 AM
Does it raise the rear end or require any modifications to the actual bike? I thought the only straight bolt-in was the Katana, which is why I just ordered one. I totally would have gone for the R6 shock had I known. What years should I look for?
EDIT: I found a race forum that concluded the R6 shock is a potentially excellent platform if you're willing to rebuild it with expensive stuff, but that the Katana shock is much better in stock form and works great on the track without any mods. I'll be sticking with that one for now.
It seems that you have them mixed up. The Katana shock will raise the rear end up a bit, the R6 won't. The Katana is only preload adjustable, the R6 is 4 way adjustable, giving you a much better track shock. And, if you get good enough that you feel you need a better shock you can rebuild the R6 and upgrade the internals.
Further in that thread he retracts his statement:
Quote from: burning1 on August 24, 2011, 04:20:38 PM
Thanks for bumping this thread. I need to redact what I posted earlier about the spring rate being too soft - it was based on some bad info. Spring rate and rebound damping are actually great on this shock, and it should be a more or less bolt on upgrade for anyone in the 160-200lb range.
If you are only using .85mm/kg front springs you might be a little light for the Katana as well, as it seems to do best for big (+200 lbs) guys. But, I understand if you want to run with what you have already purchased.
Quote from: Slack on May 02, 2013, 05:02:07 PM
Quote from: BeerIsSoAwesome on May 02, 2013, 04:06:48 PM
This is the comment I was using for reference:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=52334.msg593727#msg593727
(http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=52334.msg593727#msg593727)
Coincidentally, I've been watching burning1's youtube videos in which he smokes shiny new 600's in the twisty bits on a GS500 rat-bike with bone-stock motor, pipe and jetting. According to this post (made back in 2010, mind you) the R6 shock is very soft compared to the Katana, however it *can* be turned into a great shock with some work.
So I'm going with a fork rebuild up front with .85kg springs and a shock from a 2004 Katana 600, and if I want something more aggressive I can look into R6 shocks down the line.
Quote from: Slack on May 02, 2013, 03:27:51 PM
Quote from: BeerIsSoAwesome on May 02, 2013, 09:27:54 AM
Does it raise the rear end or require any modifications to the actual bike? I thought the only straight bolt-in was the Katana, which is why I just ordered one. I totally would have gone for the R6 shock had I known. What years should I look for?
EDIT: I found a race forum that concluded the R6 shock is a potentially excellent platform if you're willing to rebuild it with expensive stuff, but that the Katana shock is much better in stock form and works great on the track without any mods. I'll be sticking with that one for now.
It seems that you have them mixed up. The Katana shock will raise the rear end up a bit, the R6 won't. The Katana is only preload adjustable, the R6 is 4 way adjustable, giving you a much better track shock. And, if you get good enough that you feel you need a better shock you can rebuild the R6 and upgrade the internals.
Further in that thread he retracts his statement:
Quote from: burning1 on August 24, 2011, 04:20:38 PM
Thanks for bumping this thread. I need to redact what I posted earlier about the spring rate being too soft - it was based on some bad info. Spring rate and rebound damping are actually great on this shock, and it should be a more or less bolt on upgrade for anyone in the 160-200lb range.
If you are only using .85mm/kg front springs you might be a little light for the Katana as well, as it seems to do best for big (+200 lbs) guys. But, I understand if you want to run with what you have already purchased.
OH shaZam!, I guess that's the magic of reading.
I'm about 160-165 before gear, so I guess I could have bought the R6 shock. Realistically, I paid $45 for the Katana piece and it's already in the mail, so I'm probably going to bolt it in ASAP and then try to figure out the fork rebuild. If I'm unhappy with that setup, I might upgrade to the R6 shock, but it's not urgent. Anything better than the stocker would have to be a huge improvement.
I'm not building a track bike here, I'm building a reliable runabout I can use for commuting, grocery shops, day trips and EVENTUALLY a nasty little streetfighter. My first goal is to get it running and handling like a champ, then I can make it purty.
Okay! My 2004 Katana 600 shock arrived today, and I couldn't wait to bolt it in when I got home.
And, boy is it firm. Without testing for sag, I'm thinking "track firm" if not excessively stiff. I came in and weighed myself and found that I'm only 155 these days, not 165 like I was in the middle of winter, so I may indeed be a bit light for this shock setup. The preload came adjusted to 4 which I assumed was fine because it was right in the middle. I might have to crank this sucker down to 1 for daily riding. I rode it around the block and I loved distinct absence of rear-end pogo-ing over bumps, but obviously I have no idea what this bike is going to feel like until my fork components arrive. I definitely don't want it topping out constantly. My fork seals came today; my dust seals, .85kg/mm Sonic springs and 15w oil is in the mail. I hope this setup turns out to be reasonably balanced, although I suppose it won't be the end of the world if I need to order a used R6 shock. It only took me about 90 minutes to swap the shocks in front of my house this evening.
For those guys who have done this same upgrade-- do you think that I can reasonably expect to scrape some pegs without fork emulators and a fork brace? I was hoping this bike would turn out to be a hard-edged thrashable runabout, and that it might prove to handle well enough to try a beginner's track day this summer.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Did the shock noticeably raise the rear end at all? And how much did it cost of you don't mind me asking? Plus what year did you get?
Jake
Quote from: BeerIsSoAwesome on May 06, 2013, 06:18:31 PM
I came in and weighed myself and found that I'm only 155 these days, not 165 like I was in the middle of winter
:thumb: .. ummm .. i mean this in the nicest possible way .. and quite literally too!!... You are half the man I am!! :icon_rolleyes:
at my current 325lbs or so geared up :oops:.. i cant wait till i get a hold of a katana shock!! :D
Quote from: jacob92icu on May 06, 2013, 11:00:36 PM
Did the shock noticeably raise the rear end at all? And how much did it cost of you don't mind me asking? Plus what year did you get?
Jake
The shock is from a 2004 Katana 600.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271186304607?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
As you can see, it cost me about $45 shipped. It's visibly used, but it bolted up perfectly and the back end feels much firmer now. I'm holding off judgment on how the bike handles and feels til I rebuild the fork to match, but it definitely sits a bit higher. I don't think this is due to the length of the shock, which is identical, but rather to the stiffness of the new shock, which doesn't sag as much under the weight of the bike. It leans farther on the sidestand, which I think is a good thing considering that the shocks where so saggy before that it stood nearly vertical on the sidestand on slightly sloped surfaces.
Quote from: Janx101 on May 06, 2013, 11:11:39 PM
Quote from: BeerIsSoAwesome on May 06, 2013, 06:18:31 PM
I came in and weighed myself and found that I'm only 155 these days, not 165 like I was in the middle of winter
:thumb: .. ummm .. i mean this in the nicest possible way .. and quite literally too!!... You are half the man I am!! :icon_rolleyes:
at my current 325lbs or so geared up :oops:.. i cant wait till i get a hold of a katana shock!! :D
Janx101, you're a big dude. Are you riding the stock suspension? I remember touring 2-up with my girlfriend on my first GS500E (a 1991 model with the mushy factory fork) and braking was a real ordeal. We were I suppose around 285 combined, And I remember the feeling of bottoming-out the fork and supporting both of us with my wrists any time I had to stop quickly. No fun a tall.
If you're riding stick, you need to go to eBay and pick up a clean-ish Katana shock ASAP, but even more importantly you have to go pick up some nice stiff fork springs and tailor that suspension to suit your size and riding style.
Between the shock, the new springs, fork seals, dust wipers and oil, I'm at almost exactly $200 which I think is totally worth it in order to completely transform the handling
lol.. yeah... big-ish....
stock rear end .. but on setting 7 preload... and yes it still wallows a bit in the rear...
.95 sonics and a forkbrace (from a member here) on the front end... which i love muchly... see my sig :D
although my overall weight is greater than you riding 2 up .. it doesnt feel too icky atm... think cos although weight is all there ... its just me in the seat so the C.o.G is different than 2up...
but yes.. Katana shock... on the list .... (looks at list of total 'things to do') ... hmm... only 8 feet of paper away now!! ;)
Quote from: Janx101 on May 07, 2013, 01:12:01 AM
.95 sonics and a forkbrace (from a member here) on the front end... which i love muchly... see my sig :D
Yikes, I seriously hope I didn't over-spring my bike. .85's up front and the serously stiff Kat in the rear, and I'm about 170 lbs in gear. I mean, I'm sure it'll be fine for camping and 2-up riding, but I hope it doesn't send me airborne over every pothole and trolley track on my commute.
Quote from: BeerIsSoAwesome on May 07, 2013, 08:05:07 AM
Yikes, I seriously hope I didn't over-spring my bike. .85's up fr and the serously stiff Kat in the rear, and I'm about 170 lbs in gear. I mean, I'm sure it'll be fine for camping and 2-up riding, but I hope it doesn't send me airborne over every pothole and trolley track on my commute.
Hahaha... I don't think you will go airborne! Hahaha... But I an going to buy .90 here pretty soon and I'm 210 or less with gear on so you should be fine.
You should be aiming for 25 and 38mm of sag. That means you measure from the top of your dust cover to the bottom edge of your triple clamp, and find an edge that's close to the centre of the back wheel and measure from there to the ground. Then jump on the bike and whilst seated with feet on the pegs in your riding gear: get one guy to hold your bike straight and another guy to do the same 2 measurements you did off the bike. Minus these measurements off your first ones to get your sag and that will give you a starting point as to weather you are sprung too stiff. Obviously you can adjust the preload on your rear but the front is a bit trickier. Now if you have to crank your preload right up on the top couple settings on your rear you shock spring is too soft. Golden rule you never 'crush' a soft spring.
All this info is in YouTube. Search for a bloke called Dave moss. Suspension guru who even helped with the twist of the wrist series.
Quote from: slipperymongoose on May 07, 2013, 02:09:24 PM
You should be aiming for 25 and 38mm of sag. That means you measure from the top of your dust cover to the bottom edge of your triple clamp, and find an edge that's close to the centre of the back wheel and measure from there to the ground. Then jump on the bike and whilst seated with feet on the pegs in your riding gear: get one guy to hold your bike straight and another guy to do the same 2 measurements you did off the bike. Minus these measurements off your first ones to get your sag and that will give you a starting point as to weather you are sprung too stiff. Obviously you can adjust the preload on your rear but the front is a bit trickier. Now if you have to crank your preload right up on the top couple settings on your rear you shock spring is too soft. Golden rule you never 'crush' a soft spring.
All this info is in YouTube. Search for a bloke called Dave moss. Suspension guru who even helped with the twist of the wrist series.
The top of the sag is measured with each wheel hanging free on the center stand?
Stand the bike upright and measure it no stand no rider. It's a 2 - 3 person job
Quote from: BeerIsSoAwesome on May 07, 2013, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Janx101 on May 07, 2013, 01:12:01 AM
.95 sonics and a forkbrace (from a member here) on the front end... which i love muchly... see my sig :D
Yikes, I seriously hope I didn't over-spring my bike. .85's up front and the serously stiff Kat in the rear, and I'm about 170 lbs in gear. I mean, I'm sure it'll be fine for camping and 2-up riding, but I hope it doesn't send me airborne over every pothole and trolley track on my commute.
according to the Sonic guide .. i probably should have gone for 1.0 (or above?) .. i opted for .95 for 'future reference' .. ie .. once i get another bike .. (aiming at a 2010 Street Triple R, just for hooning a bit ;) ) .. it may happen that i lend the bike to a mate or some such... didnt want to totally over spring the front end... it could have been ok i guess , but most of the mates are either your size or halfway between us... :dunno_black: ... i'm happy with the front though... even under emergency braking practice conditions (where i nearly put myself over the bars :icon_rolleyes: oops ) the forks compressed right down and there may have been just a tiny tiny tap of bottom out?... not sure cos its so slight... but under all normal conditions of riding/braking/potholes/driveways .. the .95's are just silky ..
as for the Kat ... if it turns out to be too stiff or high for you... you can throw it my way eh!?! .. :D .. $'s for such of course!
The Street Triple R is an excellent choice, I think. I haven't been on that specific model, however I've been on several Speed Triple 995's and 1095's and absolutely loved them. I also took a 40-minute back-road test-ride on a Daytona 675 and loved every psychotic second of it. What a hoot. It could only possibly be better in naked trim with superbike bars.
Oh, and I did my fork rebuild today. Hit a few snags, learned a few things... important things about firmly tightening up the damping rod bolt.
That's right, I put the whole damn front end back together and popped it off the center-stand, then came out five minutes later to find a puddle of oil under the left leg. Had to pull the whole damn thing apart again, open the leg, and remove the spring and spacer in order to tighten up that damping rod. Then I needed to re-measure the oil level before putting the whole mess back together again. Basically added another hour to a job I thought was already done.
I should explain that the bike isn't street-legal yet: the back tire is bald and I don't have it registered or insured at the moment, however I did take a spin around the block on it and I'm (so far) very satisfied with the results. It rides like a new bike; no more clunking over potholes, diving hard at stops or squatting under acceleration. It has much better manners in turns and I can't wait to fit a new back tire and flog it through the twisties!
I ran a Kat750 shock on my race bike. The Kat 600 and 750 have the same spring rate.
My recommendation is to set pre-load and damping to their minimums, and tune from there.
Quote from: burning1 on May 13, 2013, 02:05:16 PM
I ran a Kat750 shock on my race bike. The Kat 600 and 750 have the same spring rate.
My recommendation is to set pre-load and damping to their minimums, and tune from there.
Thanks! I'm the guy who messaged you on YouTube to ask about fork tech. I have the preload set to minimum on the Kat shock and I did the fork rebuild myself with .85 springs and 15w oil. St the moment I have a bald back tire and no proper registration/insurance so I've only tooled around the neighborhood, but I'll tell you that it's night and day. The bike feels better than I've ever thought a GS could.
After reading posts about fork braces, I think I'm going the same route as Srinath and making my own from 1/2" aluminum. I definitely feel a bit of torque steer when I hit the front brake hard.
soo...whatever happened with the GSX650F? Did anyone try that yet?
Just switched to Progressive in the front yesterday (which feels glorious compared to stock) and now the rear seems slightly skwerly. I'm not doing track days by any means, so I'll see what I can get just from the stock rear, but those $30 B.I.N. shocks in elBay are itching my clicky finger...