- 2004 GS500F
- 29000km
- Motul 5100 4t 10w40
- Unknown last valve clearance check date
- Noise disappears at 4000rpm with engine cold, around 3000 when hot
- Noise is louder when engine cold, when its hot its barely audible
- Can't say if it's coming from the high or low part of the motor
- Made around 600km with the noise, didn't change, always the same, bike runs fine
- Checked camshaft end play following suzuki service bulletin: Leaning the bike towards the sidestand while engine running on idle should quiet the noise. Result: Sound is significantly reduced (tested with engine cold at idle), but only when the bike is almost lying on the ground and also it doesn't disappear completely, also idle rpms go up.
Noise:
¿ Could be camshaft end float ? It's really annoying.
Sounds like Junior did when his counter balance bearing was going out. It was the bearing on the right side of it. After opening up engine case, left side and all other bearings were OK.
Info in Junior's thread: http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=60331.msg695096#msg695096
That's not the camshaft end play knock which is harmless, that's more serious. Have you had the valve cover off to look around in there for starters?
Quote from: gsJack on May 15, 2013, 02:04:50 PM
That's not the camshaft end play knock which is harmless, that's more serious. Have you had the valve cover off to look around in there for starters?
Sorry but, ¿ what are the starters ?
"for starters" is a commonly used English phrase meaning "as the first thing you do" or similar phrases. It does not refer to any actual object, buy the act of beginning some task. Example: "For starters, I wake up before getting out of bed". "I'll go look in the garage for starters before I look in the attic."
Quote from: adidasguy on May 15, 2013, 01:59:50 PM
Sounds like Junior did when his counter balance bearing was going out. It was the bearing on the right side of it. After opening up engine case, left side and all other bearings were OK.
Info in Junior's thread: http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=60331.msg695096#msg695096
I've made around 600 km with that noise and didn't change, also the bike runs fine. I changed all the oil lately and i have the old oil on a pot in the garage, will check the bottom of it for fragments. Also changed the oil filter and didn't find any fragment, will double-check anyways.
Quote from: adidasguy on May 15, 2013, 02:25:09 PM
"for starters" is a commonly used English phrase meaning "as the first thing you do" or similar phrases. It does not refer to any actual object, buy the act of beginning some task. Example: "For starters, I wake up before getting out of bed". "I'll go look in the garage for starters before I look in the attic."
Oh lol, sorry for my crappy english
Tomorrow i am doing the valve clearance check so i will have a look in there.
Junior ran fine for a year with that noise. Kept getting a little louder. Nothing in the oil.
Then one day while down shifting down a hill, the halves of the bearing slipped onto each other. Then the shaft was half on paper thing bearing and the other half bare aluminum. That's when it started eating away at the inside of the case.
There's a link in the thread for a video where I discovered where the bad bearing was. If you drain oil, check that nut with the big washer. It shouldn't move - like it did in the video. It should be solid. The bearing is under that washer - the bearing that went out. Scan that thread start to finish to learn about that bearing.
If not that bearing, then I do not know what it is.
Quote from: adidasguy on May 15, 2013, 03:12:37 PM
Junior ran fine for a year with that noise. Kept getting a little louder. Nothing in the oil.
Then one day while down shifting down a hill, the halves of the bearing slipped onto each other. Then the shaft was half on paper thing bearing and the other half bare aluminum. That's when it started eating away at the inside of the case.
There's a link in the thread for a video where I discovered where the bad bearing was. If you drain oil, check that nut with the big washer. It shouldn't move - like it did in the video. It should be solid. The bearing is under that washer - the bearing that went out. Scan that thread start to finish to learn about that bearing.
If not that bearing, then I do not know what it is.
At the time when you discovered your problem, the bearing was already dead right ? How can i know if that's the affected part if mine is still up ? ... Will check that after checking upper/valve side, but i wonder how difficult is to get access to that ?, you have to split the motor ? or only getting the right engine cover gives access to that thing ?
Right side cover gives access to it. The bolt head I wiggled in the video is it. It should be solid with no up, Dow, left or right movement. You can remove the bolt and washer to see it. I had photos of the bearing in the thread after removing the washer and bolt.
I did the valve clearance check this morning.
I used 0,04mm gauges and 0,10mm (the only ones i found)
Right EX, Right IN, Left IN... on all of them 0,04 passes and 0,10mm doesn't pass. So i think it's ok.
BUT. Left EX, 0,04 doesn't pass. Even the lower tolerance being 0,03mm i don't like that on an exhaust valve...
Still didn't take the shim out for measuring and checking the number, but.. the question is ¿ How do i know how many 0,05 steps i have to lower without travelling 800000 times to the suzuki shop ?
You get one really thin shim as a test shim so you can fit the gauge in there just to get a read and know what size shim you actually need.
- Bboy
Cam shaft end play sounds like this: http://www.familyjones.org/paul/Cam%20noise.mp3
If the bucket still turns with your finger, I would just go down one size, or get two: one @ -.05 and one @ -.10
Ok guys, it's done. Got a 265 shim and a good set of gauges.
EX: 0,05 - 0,07
IN: 0,05 - 0,05
Now starter is only needed a few seconds, and idle rpm's are super-stable. :woohoo:
About the noise:
I prepared the bike for checking the carb sync, so when i finished i put the fuel tank on the side, put everything on place and started it...
Thanks to the fuel tank being removed, now i can say that the noise comes from the left (sidestand) side of the upper part of the engine. I am 99,9% sure that it comes from there.
When doing the valve clearance check i moved the intake camshaft with my hand (when valves not pressed) and it had lots of horizontal play. The noise is because of that, and if not, it's the piston. That's what i think. I checked the cam chain and it was perfectly tensioned.
Can't find any well-explained guide on how to add shims to the camshaft end. So, if you know any...
Thanks to everyone
Quote from: Mach on May 15, 2013, 01:50:18 PM
- Noise disappears at 4000rpm with engine cold, around 3000 when hot
- Noise is louder when engine cold, when its hot its barely audible
That just doesn't sound like the camshaft endplay knock to me, here's my description copied from an old post:
I had the cam knock on both my 97 GS and my current 02 GS but haven't heard it for years now. I remember it as a much lower frequency knock than you have. Knocks only on warm engine and only at idle. Pick up the rpm to a 1800-2000 rpm fast idle speed and it stops knocking and is never heard at riding speeds above a fast idle.
I ran 15W-50 Mobil 1 in my 97 for first 50k miles and heard the knock off and on but switched to the 15W-40 truck oils after that and never heard it again on the 97 which I used up to 80k miles. Heard it when I first got my 02 in Sept 03 with 4k miles on it but I changed to the 15W-40 truck oils about 2k miles later and don't recall hearing it since then. The camshaft side play knock is harmless and I never worried about it after I determined what it was. My cam knock on both my 97 and 02 engines was never heard above a fast idle which I believe is because the centrifugal force on the cam chain at higher rpm tightens the cams in place keeping them from moving sideways.
I too could feel the extra endplay on one camshaft on my 97 GS but never measured it or tried to shim it out. I remember one member doing it and think it was Budha a long tine ago, maybe he remembers. There are some shims on parts fiche lists that might do it.
Once I confirmed what my noise was I didn't worry about it but the noise on your tape doesn't sound at all like it to me, sounds more serious like a bad bearing in the bottom end. But no doubt your and Adidas's younger ears are functioning much better than my 80 yr old ones. :icon_lol:
Ok guys got this solved: Starter clutch allen screws that hold it to the magnet assembly; 2 of 'em were totally sawed off and the third one was about to broke.
Thanks everyone.
Not to revive and old topic here... but I had an issue very similar to this but I thought I had fixed. It turns out I had not.
What allen screws is OP talking about?
GS Starter clutch (http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Suzuki/Motorcycle/2004/GS500F/STARTER+CLUTCH/parts.html)
crank case assembly (http://cdn.partzilla.com/diagram/suzuki/02/198/0006.png)
Thanks!
Mach is talking about part 7 on your starter clutch link.To check remove left side cover and check to see if the starter clutch is bolted tight to the backside of the rotor. Here's one posted recently that's very loose:
http://youtu.be/SCXN76yqPik
I had a loose starter clutch earlier this year and checked it just after noise started and everything seemed tight and OK inside there and I buttoned it back up. After some more running time on the engine I went back in again and it was obviously loose. Only way to be sure if you catch it early is to pull the rotor and check it.
Roger that.
Thanks a lot!