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Main Area => Projects / Builds, Racing and Tech => Topic started by: ctjacket on June 01, 2013, 03:34:41 PM

Title: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: ctjacket on June 01, 2013, 03:34:41 PM
So I just picked up my first bike this morning.  About 16k miles, and it's in pretty good shape other than it won't start.  I had planned to spend 2k on my first bike, and since I got this for 700 I feel pretty happy.  The previous owner last rode it 6 months ago, and then stored it ever since.  Here's some pics of the bike.

(http://i.imgur.com/9lyRcXX.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/3oAN0nM.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/zvPJaez.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/W0kRzty.jpg)

The previous owner said with a new battery it should start right up.  Well that is not the case.  I hear the engine trying to start, but it just doesn't.  Should I start by replacing the gas/oil?  I have 2 new plugs on the way.

I want to drain the oil and gas and start fresh, and clean the carbs as well.  Problem is that I live in an apt building, and all the work as to be done on a side st, which I don't mind, but I don't really have a garage or even work bench other than my apt countertop.
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: adidasguy on June 01, 2013, 04:14:30 PM
First, drain carbs and tank. Put in fresh gas.
Add some Seafoam to the gas, too. It will help clean things out.

Now it should run. Gas goes bad.

You can do oil. Never a bad idea with a new bike. Gas is your big problem. New spark plugs will help.
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: ctjacket on June 01, 2013, 09:46:56 PM
Sounds like a plan.  What do I do with the old gas?  Let it evaporate?  I have never disposed of old gas before.

I'll make sure to take pics/update this later with what I do, since everyone loves pics.
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: Gorilla on June 01, 2013, 09:53:21 PM
I just did this a week or two ago with adidashelp. Definitely new gas will help  very much. His tip about using that stuff called seafoam is great too. Yes just let the gas evaporate somewhere safe overnight. I have the same issue of letting evaporate over night. i put it on the side of my partment outside and it will evaporate over night.
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: rowbvp on June 01, 2013, 10:41:52 PM
I been in the same situation,owner says one thing,only to find its something else! (Crab clean ) if you been starting it over and over, pull the plugs out and let it sit. could be flooding the engine. (When you are cleaning the carbs check the jet sizes) Some people will change the to make bike faster. If they are wrong go back to stock jets.
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: ctjacket on June 02, 2013, 06:55:43 AM
As I am pulling the gas tank and carbs, should I install a fuel filter while I am doing all of this?
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: PatheticPuma on June 02, 2013, 07:19:33 AM
Quote from: ctjacket on June 02, 2013, 06:55:43 AM
As I am pulling the gas tank and carbs, should I install a fuel filter while I am doing all of this?

With my old bike it had been in storage for a couple years. ALl I did was pull and drain the tank, open the drain screws on the carbs to drain them, mix about 8oz of seafoam to 1.5 gallons of gas, and add to the tank after putting back on the bike. Waited a couple minutes to let the carbs fill up, then fired it up. It ran rough because of the high concentration of seafoam, shut it off after about 3-5 minutes of running, and let it sit for a few hours to let the seafoam do it's thing. Then top off the tank with fresh gas, start it up, (it will run rough for a little bit until the more diluted seafoam gets to the carbs) and ride!

I will be doing this again today to my GS, weather and time permitting
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: ctjacket on June 02, 2013, 10:40:15 AM
Okay emptied gas tank completely and carbs, but it still won't start.  I am going to see what the plugs look like next.  Just have to go back out to get a 18mm socket.

Here's a pic of my workshop:

(http://i.imgur.com/P5PsxiJ.jpg)

In the back you can see my collection of gas waiting to be evaporated.  Only issues is that it might rain here soon....

Getting that 2.5 gallons of gas sucked.  I have to bike 4 miles to get it, and carried it in one are the whole time.
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: ctjacket on June 02, 2013, 11:23:43 AM
Okay I pulled this plugs and this what they looked like:

(http://i.imgur.com/GYZRW0n.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/xJDSe36.jpg)

Wiped them off, put them back in, and still not starting.  It turns over, and one time made like it was about to start, but did not.


edit:  I realize I may not have put enough gas in the tank to run it from "on" or "prime."  There is only about a gallon and half in right now.  On Tues I will put the new plugs in with more gas as well, and then go from there.
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: Gorilla on June 03, 2013, 08:38:36 AM
good luck man. I wish i could help more but im brand new to these bikes too.
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: jacob92icu on June 03, 2013, 11:02:00 AM
Are you sure you are getting spark?

*EDIT*

btw, you can put pictures straight into your thread using the img button that looks like Mona Lisa. Just put your link in between the [-img-][-/img-] Without the -'s
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: ctjacket on June 03, 2013, 03:55:03 PM
I set like that in case the images were too large, but I'll change it.

Also that is the first thing I am going to check when I put the new NGK's in tomorrow night.  I don't have any time until then due to work stuff.  I guess if I am not getting spark, then it could be the coils, ignitor, or signal generator right?
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: ctjacket on June 04, 2013, 04:54:27 PM
So I am getting spark out of both plugs.  About to do a compression test with my finger, and then go from there.
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: ctjacket on June 04, 2013, 06:13:24 PM
This is backwards right?  Could this be the source of all my problems?

To the right is the left outside of the fuel tank

(http://i.imgur.com/CqwUBlw.jpg)
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: Janx101 on June 04, 2013, 06:52:02 PM
holy huge unfocussed picture batman!!!!  ;)

it does look bass ackwards .. that little metal knob on the right in the pic .. i think is the tank petcock screw ... which mostly sits facing in across engine ...

but .. like that .. its easier access hmm? ... i 'think' .. so long as you connect the fuel lines bass ackwards also... so each hose goes to the correct part of the frame petcock ... then it should be no problem really ...

another thought... who did the install of that petcock? .. and is there any gunk in it somewhere?
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: Watevaman on June 04, 2013, 07:08:29 PM
 Do you live in VA? I'm not a mechanic by all means but if you need another hand with anything I could help.
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: ctjacket on June 04, 2013, 07:17:29 PM
Downtown DC.  Sorry for the blurry pics.  This was done in a parking spot haha.

The carbs have some pretty bad orings.  Both orings on the needle seat were hard, brittle, flat and covered in some white gunk.  Vacuum port orings were same way, etc...  The jets seem clear, but all the o rings everywhere are hard and brittle. 

So I just ordered a set from cycleorings.com, and hopefully I can get the bike running on Saturday.
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: Watevaman on June 04, 2013, 07:27:51 PM
 Cool. I'm in Manassas myself.

Have you checked the float heights and all that good stuff? I can't imagine them being too off from just sitting but weirder things have happened. You may want to do an immersion cleaning of your carbs if possible. With the fuel hoses disconnected from carbs there is fuel flow through your tank petcock? And also your frame petcock?

Feel free to shoot me a PM if you need help or when you get it running. More GS riders in the area is always good.
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: ctjacket on June 04, 2013, 08:20:32 PM
Didn't check float heights.  I will be doing a full clean of everything.  There was fuel flowing through the tank petcock, and I believe it flowed through the frame petcock, but I can't remember now.  I didn't drain the carb before I disconnected it.

It seems like something may be up with one of the carbs anyway judging by that black spark plug right?
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: ctjacket on June 05, 2013, 05:51:35 PM
So one of the sliders was pretty much impossible to remove, then I found this:

(http://i41.tinypic.com/9glsb9.jpg)
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: jacob92icu on June 05, 2013, 06:07:51 PM
Hmmm thats no good. Clean it up with some carb cleaner and put everything back together. Make sure when you reconnect the fuel lines you do it correctly. That can cause lots of problems. Good luck  :thumb:
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: ctjacket on June 05, 2013, 07:22:57 PM
Scrubbed the hell out of everything.  Just reassembled the carbs with some new gaskets as well.  Trying trying to figure out the float height stuff before I put them back on. 

Also the float bowls were on backwards before, but this time they are corrected. :)
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: ctjacket on June 05, 2013, 10:33:13 PM
She started immediately!! :cheers:

But I have a ton of issues and I am not sure where to begin, other than probably in the carbs.

I had the frame petcock on prime, and there was a leak out of one of the fuel hoses, and it was also leaking out of the left carb on the valve to drain the bowls.  I tightened it and it was still like that.  I turned the petcock to on, and the leak stopped.

Second, the idle shot up to 4k, to fix that I just rotate the large knob coming out of the carbs right?

Third, when I went to shift into 1st from N, it grinded real bad, and the rpms shot up even higher, so I shut it down.  I might not have had the best clutch control because I was so excited to hear it start as well.

Fourth, I went to start it again, and almost blew my right ear out from the loudest backfire in a parking garage ever.  So I need to fix that as well.

Finally, I checked the oil dipstick after the brief 10 seconds it was running, and it like there was barely any oil.  I plan to replace the old stuff immediately.


So with all of those things, where should I start?
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: jacob92icu on June 06, 2013, 12:01:35 AM
Do replace the oil immediately, I am sure you will be fine running it with it like that for a little bit.

1. If you run your bike on prime the carbs are bound to leak, so it is good news that the bike doesn't leak on the on setting. I would say replace the fuel hose, or use a few hose clamps to seal the connection.

2. Yes the idle adjustment screw will fix that, just make sure your not adjusting it from a floating idle, and it is indeed the true idle. You want to set it to preferably 1.5k

3. With the shifting into first from neutral, you pulled the clutch all the way in? if so you probably need to adjust your clutch in all of the spots.

4. Backfire is normal from a bike that hasn't run for a little while. just run some new gas through it and you will be fine.
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: ctjacket on June 06, 2013, 03:54:23 PM
Oh so it is normal to leak out when it's on prime?  So I should just leave the petcock turned to on at all times pretty much going forward?

Ill double check the clutch stuff again when the engine isn't all over the place.


I am going to check the float height from this trick: http://www.gstwin.com/float_height_check.htm
I have a feeling my floats aren't set at the right height, and I will also get the idle down via turning the knob as well.

I forgot to mention that I noticed there was no hose for the carb overflow vent either, so when I re-do the gas lines Ill add one of those as well.

The plan is to get do at least some of this tomorrow night, and then install a new rear shock that I have this weekend.
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: Gorilla on June 06, 2013, 05:33:36 PM
Quote from: ctjacket on June 06, 2013, 03:54:23 PM
Oh so it is normal to leak out when it's on prime?  So I should just leave the petcock turned to on at all times pretty much going forward?

Ill double check the clutch stuff again when the engine isn't all over the place.


I am going to check the float height from this trick: http://www.gstwin.com/float_height_check.htm
I have a feeling my floats aren't set at the right height, and I will also get the idle down via turning the knob as well.

I forgot to mention that I noticed there was no hose for the carb overflow vent either, so when I re-do the gas lines Ill add one of those as well.

The plan is to get do at least some of this tomorrow night, and then install a new rear shock that I have this weekend.

keep us updated bud!
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: ctjacket on June 07, 2013, 05:06:37 PM
Small update today:

I am getting new tires put on next week; just went with BT45's since I don't really know what I want and it's my first bike.  I am having a motorcycle mechanic put them on next week for $100 for the set, and he's also going to give me a quick inspection of what he thinks of the rest of the bike as well for $45.  He'll check the brake components, frame, transmission, hoses, any hardware missing, etc...  I figured it would be nice to have a pro take a peek, and for $45 is not too bad.

I got some o-rings in for the carbs, although I replaced most of them with vitron rings from Autozone, and I picked up 3 quarts of oil to change/fill up tomorrow.

(http://i.imgur.com/0ctXscL.jpg)
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: ctjacket on June 08, 2013, 03:45:53 PM
Okay so I did the oil change today, but there are some more issues now....

The bike will start, and then immediately die, or occasionally rev up high in rpms then gradually decrease until it dies.  For the second instance, I am sometimes able to feather the throttle to keep it going a little longer, but then it just dies out eventually.

Also when I try to get the throttle to respond, nothing seems to happen occasionally.


It seems like I have a few leaks, both oil and gas.  It seems like maybe my float bowl gaskets are bad, the floats get wet with gasoline.  I have 2 new ones coming in sometime soon.  If it is not coming from there, I am unsure where on the carbs they can be leaking, but they get covered in gasoline.

There are a few places where it seems like oil is coming out.  I put in just under 3q; I didn't use the entire 3rd bottle.

So this is still an ongoing process

Pics below.....

(http://i.imgur.com/i8Kyl2O.jpg?1)

(http://i.imgur.com/DOeRxI4.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/DnrhxuG.jpg)


Near left peg
(http://i.imgur.com/HGJm2IL.jpg)

Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: jacob92icu on June 09, 2013, 01:59:05 AM
That oil leak under the chain and clutch cover could be coming from the clutch push rod seal, yours may well be shot like mine was.

The gas leaking out... hmmmmm... replacing the float bowl gaskets is definitely your best bet for now, if problem persists make sure to update thread.

As for not starting, have you looked for any major air leaks? Rips, burns, tears in vacuum line or bad, cracked, holey carb and air box boots?
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: ctjacket on June 09, 2013, 08:32:26 AM
I am going to pull the airbox and make sure everything is still attached, and I am pretty sure that I got all the gaskets on tight; will double check to confirm it.
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: ctjacket on June 10, 2013, 05:14:45 PM
Small update today, got my new tires in.

Also on the stock needle jets, are there any metal washers on them, or is it just the larger plastic ones?  Now that I think about it, one of the needles had a metal washer on it while the other one didn't.  It looked stock though, because there were no grooves to adjust the c-clip anywhere.


(http://i.imgur.com/UQ70gLw.jpg)
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: ctjacket on June 11, 2013, 06:20:46 PM
Ugh so frustrating.  Pulled both plugs, covered in a carbon ash.  Put 2 new ones in and didn't start, also it smelled like gas where the plugs were, so I guess that explains that....

Have carbs out again and am double checking everything as well as installing new gaskets for bowls.
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: Watevaman on June 12, 2013, 02:04:34 AM
 For the time being, until you know everything is fixed, I'd be checking the oil for a gas smell every time before you try and start it. If your floats are faulty you can get gas in the crankcase eventually. For this reason, don't leave the bike on PRI when it's sitting, just ask me how I know.
Title: Re: First bike, 93 GS500, need help!
Post by: ctjacket on June 13, 2013, 01:37:55 PM
Final update for this thread:


She works perfectly.  New gaskets, one more o ring swap in one place, and the float were set correctly this time and she just purrs.

Got the new tires on today, and new rear brake pads as well.

The mechanic was actually surprised I was able to buy it for only 700 in this good of condition, and offered to buy it off me :thumb:
Next step is waking up early and riding to RFK to practice in their parking lots.

edit: so for my first bike, with a budget of 2k to spend, i managed...

700+250 for labor and inspection by mechanic+175 for tires+100 for battery, oil, various o rings and stuff = 1275   :D


Future projects will be new handlebars, and a katana 600 shock as well for it.

Also for anyone in the DC-NoVa-MD area I highly reccomend www.willpowermcs.com to take care of your stuff.