A few months ago I purchased a 1997 GS500e from a private owner here in Maryland. I bought for $850 dollars. I was told all it needed was a battery and new fluids so I went to my local Pete's Cycle and bought a battery ( BikeMaster) and did the fluid changes. I installed the battery and went to start the bike and Nothing.. I thought it might be bad spark plugs, so I replaced those and tried again still nothing. So then I thought maybe its the starter relay, I replaced the Starter solenoid and then things got a little promising. I went to start the bike and it practically started. I believe i heard the starter motor working and then giving out. So today i decided to make a video of me trying to start her up. SO Frustrating!! >:( >:( [youtube<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LcE-kna2_5A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>][/youtube]
May be insulting, but do you have the full choke on? Carb bowls full of fuel?
Not insulting at all, but yes full choke is on but after that I came here to find more qualified mechanics and veteran gs riders
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Upon checking there is fuel in the float bowls
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Try starting fluid in the airbox? when was the bike last run? it might be dirty carburetors/jets...had lots of carb problems before I finally was able to get mine on the road. Also the battery is prob fine, the starter drains a lot of power cranking like that with no start.
I cleaned the carbs.. guess I have to clean them again. I could try the starter fluid in the airbox but I'm not exactly sure how to do that.. do I just spray some directly in while trying to crank the bike? And I have absolutely no idea when the bike last ran. The previous owners registration says 2009 so I'm assuming that's when it last ran
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Yeah I had to take mine off 3 times when I was assembling my bike...My bike hadn't run since like 89..Anyway be sure that the pilot jets in both carburetors are completely clean and you can see light through them as well as the main jets. This thread will help you immensely as well as the youtube vid on our carbs http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=56601.0
I could see through the jets I could actually get out. I hope I'm not missing any key parts that could be preventing my bike from starting
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I found out my bike had a clogged pilot that was stripped on top. After going crazy trying to get it clear I double checked it all by putting the injectors in my mouth and blowing through them. It's kind of a pain but if you blow in those two ports you can hear the air difference when you place and remove your fingers from the pilot jet and where the float needle seat goes. My simple way to make sure the jets and passages were clear, after that carb rebuild I've had no issues.
Also when I first got my bike I had a hard time starting too. Upon removing the spark plugs to check spark and cranking it, gas shot out. I let the flooded engine dry out and after that it started.
Just ideas from my minor troubles to throw your way.
Based on my video, are my spark plugs possibly an issue too?
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And how long does a flooded engin take to dry out?
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If you think the plugs might be an issue, why not just pull them out and test them against the engine? You unscrew the spark plug, then hold it to the engine, crank it and you should see spark. If you see spark, check if it has strong spark. Since the plugs are out at this point anyway...try spraying some starting fluid directly into the cylinder heads (like 2 seconds in each), put the plugs back on, and fire her up with your bike's battery fully charged or hooked up to a car with the car off (you can potentially fry your battery if the car is on). This way you will have proper voltage and the battery will not be a contributing factor to your bike not starting.
If it doesn't start up after I spray the starter fluid into the cylinder head and put the spark plugs bacl in what the next step?
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Prob make sure with an air compressor that all the air vents in the carburetors (theres two holes you'll see) are cleared out and you can blow air through them. I'd keep the tank off and use a funnel system or syringe to put fresh gas directly into the carb t connector which is the bottom one of the two t connectors on the cabs. The top is vent. But I honestly think if the bike ran in 09 and the starter turns over, the bike should start. But did you check the spark plugs yet for spark, like visual confirmation? Keep me posted.
I will go check right now
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Where exactly am I looking for a spark? I went to see if therewas a spark and I received a small shock.. what does that mean?
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shock means theres spark but hold it against the cylinder head and look at the gap. You should see a strong bright blue, almost white spark. If the spark is like orange, yellowish, blue, it has weak spark. Check your spark plug gap between the electrode too and make sire its not to wide or too narrow.
UPDATE: I went to test the spark like you said to but I saw no spark at all.. I don't understand, those are new spark plugs. However, I went and bought starter fluid and it started up for about half a second. I gave it a little gas and it revved it then I let off the gas and it cut right off
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Ok you prob didn't touch the plug to the right piece, or missed the spark somehow cause obviously it started/has enough spark to run. Pretty exciting to finally see it run a little right? haha, but your carbs could be totally out of sync causing it to have starting problems. Is the air filter clean? Keep playing with the starting fluid and do some diagnostics. Make sure you can physically see gas going into the carburetor line (best done with the tank off and feeding the line directly with gas from a funnel/would help with clear lines) Get the bike running, and when it starts dying spray a little more starting fluid in the airbox, if it keeps running then its prob bogging down because the carbs aren't getting fuel. If you can get it running for any decent length, try spraying some starting fluid around the filter end/the engine end (the rubber housings) end to rule out vacuum leaks. If you spray starting fluid around the black rubber housings and the revs go up, it means there's a leak. Did you blow air through the frame petcock in all positions? There could be a vacuum problem there causing fuel not to reach the carbs, or a blockage in the petcock.
Just out of curiosity, you did not see spark in either plug, or just one?
I went back out and checked for spark again and saw a bright blue spark on both plugs.. I was checking for spark the wrong way. It really is exciting to know I'm making progress.I have a few questions now
-How do I get my carbs back into sync if in fact they are out of sync?
-Is there a specific way to reassemble the tubes in the carbs so that gas will actually run because when I took the carbs out to clean them I don't think I put the tubes back in the right places
And my final question is why does my battery get drained so quickly when I try to start the bike. The battery tender I purchased is charging the battery more and more rapidly.. does that mean the battery is losing voltage/power?
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Fuel Hoses:
http://gstwin.com/fuel_hose_routing.htm
To sync the carbs there are many ways to do it, but this is how I did mine.
How to sync carbs the tool-less, free way:
1. Find a small electrical wire (copper, stranded type), say 4in long.
2. Rip the wire apart, and take out just one strand of copper wire
3. Using the adjustment screw for the carbs, get them both so they barely grab that strand of wire as you slide it past the butterfly valves. Slide it through and tweak the screw a bit back and forth a few times to get the feel. You want it to feel the same on both sides.
It's not a perfect method, and far from "official", but it's free, fast, easy and as far out of whack as mine were, it worked great. I would suggest getting them checked at a bike shop at some point, depending on how diligently you perform these steps.
Here's another way to sync the carbs I call the "Hillbilly Carb Sync Method"
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=58598.msg665859#msg665859
This is probably a newbie question but do I have to remove the carbs to use to method?
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Hillbilly method: no.
Other method mentioned: yes, as you need access to the butterflies.
Either way, tank should be off so you have access to the carb balancing screw.
Yeah sorry. Should have mentioned that, i was assuming you might be removing them again to check other things. If not, then Adidas' method is pretty reliable, sound is a quick way to know something is wrong.
Well the bike doesn't start at the moment so how to I know that they are synced. Does the first method require starting the bike?
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Nope. My way is with carbs out.
Alright great.. if I hit a bump I know where to go. Thanks1! O0
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What if the carbs are synced? How will I know.. I don't wanna go try to fix what isn't broken
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You can see it. The butterfly valves are in sync, when they close the exact same amount, at the exact same time. If one is slammed shut, and the other has a gap...they are out of sync.
Both of them have a gap.. is that alright?
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As long as it is the same on both sides, yes.
have you checked the fuel height in the carbs to make sure the bowls are full?
That is something I still have to check
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Quote from: snOhio on June 05, 2013, 08:54:38 PM
have you checked the fuel height in the carbs to make sure the bowls are full?
This. Use the clear U-tube method.
I have a clear tube from the new battery.. will that fit the float bowl drain?
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No idea. Try it.
Will an air duster(can of compressed air) work if I can't get my hands on a air compressor?
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If I use an air compressor to blow out air vent and bottom t connector where will the gunk come out on the carbs
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I have a major problem.. my gas tank is leaking.. I think gas ate through the metal (if that's possible) and the gas is just waterfalling out of the bottom right side of the bike.. how do I fix it?
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With that big ole hole in the tank I assume it had major rust issues, the rust could be getting to the carbs or blocking the petcock (Unless you added an inline filter) and may be the cause of the starting issues. If you open the carb drains does gas come out? I would be searching for a new tank if I were you, ebay or a bike breaker shop.
Gas does come out throught the drain when I unscrew the screw
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i went to remove my carbs and when i got them off after draining the float bowls.. Upon removing my float bowls I made a grim discovery.. im gonna attempt to get all of this substance out of the carbs and starting the bike again
[attachment deleted by admin]
If thats what the float bowls look like your jets have a chance of being already clogged, even though you just cleaned them. Check them too.
After cleaning the carbs again I suggest get some fresh gas and pour it in a funnel or something connected directly to the fuel line (bypass the tank) and see how it goes.
I am trying that but which part do I connect the funnel to?
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And my battery is dying before any progress can be made
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Can you explain how I do the gas in the funnel tank bypass thing? I'm kinda confused
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Close the tank petcock, remove the fuel line from the frame petcock, and pour fuel directly into the fuel line.
Which fuel line?
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The tank is off.. it was full of rust and it sprung a leak... I'm far from good at this stuff... so sorry for all the questions
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The one that goes to the carbs.
I tried that.. I set up a system with a funnel and the fuel line leading directly to the lower t-connector on the carbs.. then I tried firing it up.. and all it did was try to turn over
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Just for sh!ts and giggles, rig that assembly up again and open up the float bowl drains one by one. That'll tell you if gas is getting to the float bowls.
If it is and the bike still doesn't start what's my next step?
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Clean 'em!
I cleaned them already! Twice today.. if the 3rd time isn't the charm then this bike is screwed
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Do the carbs need to the use the vacuum hose to get fuel into the carbs? Or the funnel straight to the fuel t-connector works without the vacuum hose from the carbs
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You don't need vacuum to funnel fuel into the T-fitting between the carbs. The petcock is where vacuum comes into play, but in this case you're bypassing the petcock.
And if you know that fuel is getting into the bowls but not into the engine, there's a blockage somewhere between the bowls and the throttle bodies. Make sure you can see light through the jets and you can blow compressed air through the passages.
When I took the jets out earlier today I could see right through them.I took the entire carburetor to the gas station down the street and used the air compressor there to blow out every part of the carbs. All the hoses, the petcock, the jets, both sides of the carbs, the all the jets, and both t-connectors.what could I be missing? is it bad that I sprayed the jets with wd40 before putting them back in?
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There's a small jet in the float assembly that's easy to overlook. I believe it feeds fuel to the choke, which would make cold starts a whole lot harder if it is clogged.
I checked and blew that out also. I had to remove the float assembly to check the o-ring on that small jet I even cleaned the line that the small jet goes into
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It was also almost 80 degrees outside when I did this work do I don't think a cold start could really matter in my case.. or could it?
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Quote from: newbie1993 on June 09, 2013, 09:09:37 PM
I checked and blew that out also. I had to remove the float assembly to check the o-ring on that small jet I even cleaned the line that the small jet goes into
That's actually not what I'm talking about. I'll go grab one of my spares and try to get a picture.
Well I spent 30 minutes and 5 dollars blowing out every crevice and hole in the carbs.. I admit the rusty gas tank made my carbs really dirty but I was pretty thorough with cleaning
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(http://i.imgur.com/fOr3NTQ.jpg?1)
Can you see light through that one? That's the choke feed. My bike absolutely refused to start in the dead of summer with that clogged.
I left the float assembly home because I was scared it was too fragile.. do you think it is sturdy enough for a few blows for an air compressor?
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If you're worried about that being too much pressure, just use a can of air duster. Much less pressure, still enough to do the job.
With the funnel method should the gas go right into the carbs? Or do I have to try firing it up to get the fuel to flow
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Gravity fed. It'll go right in.
Should it start right up?
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Well...it should, but as you're finding out, it's not always that easy.
Yeah it definitely isn't.. I have been at this for months. And weirdly I made more progress with dirty carbs
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I hear you, man. I was in your position not even a year ago. It's incredibly frustrating, but with the help of the kind folks here I got it up and running eventually.
Out of curiosity, what part of MD are you in? If you're not too far, I could give you a hand.
Baltimore city
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I'm up in Havre de Grace, I go through Baltimore all the time. Let me know if you ever need some help, I've got way too much free time.
Do what you're doing with the funnel while the bike is hooked up to your car battery. Spray starting fluid. Crank. You're car's battery will not die quickly.
I'm 19 this bike is my first ever vehicle so I've gotta find someone with jumper cables. I just bought a new motorcycle battery I just have to find where I can have it filled. Hopefully a new battery will help
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Ya get that battery in there and try again with the funnel feeding it. BTW next time it does not fire up right a few seconds cranking most likely its not going to start so don't go running the battery down like that. Once the cranking slows down you loose spark and in most cases it will not fire anyway. BTW you are using fresh gas right?
Yes I'm using fresh gas. I just finished another cleaning of the carbs.. hopefully this cleaning makes a big difference... I'm gonna go put everything back together after the rain goes away
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Are you getting good compression in the cylinders? Without that it would probably want to start but never really fire. Just trying to follow the fuel at this point, if you have a full tank, and it's in the carbs, and the carbs are clean and functioning properly, then next would be either choked off air, or bad compression I think.
How do I check for compression?
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I'm not really sure how without a compression tester...had a buddy do it for me, but I think Adidas or GsJack will have some ingenious method. I know there was a thread here sometime in the last year where a number of ways were described, do a quick search.
The proper way: (Autozone may loan this kit, they loan just about EVERYTHING)
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=58879.msg670150#msg670150
Finger method:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=24688.msg254259#msg254259
Just an fyi about renting it from Autozone because I tried recently to do it, none of the attachments would fit in the gs500, so make sure they have a 12mm adapter I believe.
^^ Good to know
Based on the finger method I have some compression.. but I think the compression gauge would give me a better result.
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I finally got my compression tester and checked for compression in both cylinders and got a reading of 150 psi on both cylinders
Finally got her started up this afternoon
http://instagram.com/p/bUrsGmFS0l/
:thumb: :woohoo:
I only have one issue now though.. When I try to rev the engine it goes up to 3000 rpm and then it cuts off
When you say it cuts out, do you mean it just stops abruptly or does it kind of sputter and die out gradually?
An abrupt stop would make me think electrical. But that's my formal training/profession, so take that with a grain of salt... Sputtering and dying out would make me think it is running out if fuel. I see in your video it looks like you are just running on what fuel is in the carbs and no larger fuel source. The fuel in the bowls will only run for a minute or so.
It'll revv up to 3000 rpm the go down to 1000 rpm then cut off.. But in the video I'm running fuel in through I funnel directly into the carbs
Oh, Ok. I couldn't see the funnel in your video. Maybe try it with the air filter installed. I would think that having the choke on would be ok without the air filter, but it's worth a try. Or cover half the hole with masking tape or your hand when you rev it.
Do you know of a better way to set up a funnel because every time I try I to set one up the gas eats away the adhesive and the funnel falls apart
I don't know... Maybe a hose clamp to hold the hose onto the funnel. Not many adhesives will hold up to gasoline. I went to the auto parts store and got a generic radiator overflow bottle. It has a few places to attach a hose, and a couple of mounting holes or even a rack you can use to tie it onto the handle bar, mirror or whatever. It holds maybe a quart, works great!
I made a video to show you what I was talking about
http://instagram.com/p/bWsX9SlS1G/
Fixed it http://instagram.com/p/bW5ZkfFS9j/
:thumb: :woohoo: (Again!)
Since I mixed seafoam with the fuel, is white smoke normal ?
I got the rpm higher by opening the throttle all the way.. It won't go up any other way
Yes, you should get a lot of white smoke with seafoam. And you'll probably have to hold the throttle open to keep the bike running while the seafoam runs through. That's all normal.
What about a smoke from the engine?
Where is the smoke coming from? It should be coming out the exhaust.
It looks like its coming from the cylinders
You're going to have to be more specific. Exhaust? Spark plugs? Intake?
It's in the video I'm not exactly sure
if its the instagram vid from the previous page .. bike running for about 10 seconds, tank off , idling at 100rpm.... then the 'smoke' is just normal water vapour from exhaust as 'any' engine heats up with cooler temp or low humidity in air...
there is no actual smoke i can see.... although i do know that fog and mists and smoke do not always show up on video/photo as much as they do to the naked eye.... its weird but thats how it is :dunno_black:
http://instagram.com/p/bms3gslS4l/ here's a video that actually shows the smoke
http://instagram.com/p/bmstwaFS4V/
Is it cold where you are ? It's not fog from the heat of the engine ? Also, is there anything spilt on the engine that might be burning off ? (sorry if response's a lil' silly, no idea about mechanics :\ )
Today it was 90 degrees.. The bike had sat since 2009 so there might be dirt or something burning to make it smoke.. I'm not sure
Man I can't tell anything at all from those videos. I see tank and smoke. Can you get a better angle?
Yeah I'll try and get a better angle.. Only reason I did it at that angle is because its the best angle I could get without being attacked by bees
:icon_idea: ... bees dont like engine fumes, cigarette smoke, fuel vapours, strong body odour.... NOT saying you have those!!! .. just sayin they dont like it and will get angry because of stuff like that ..
so real good plan is move the bike back from that area before you do another video :thumb:
the way the smoke is in that video i would have really asked did you have a whole heap of WD spray or carb cleaner smoking off the top of a hot engine...
but ... i'm just trying to visualise where else that much smoke could come from and more importantly WHY? ... smoke like that (if not from overspray of oily stuff) is never ever good if its leaking out from inside any engine .. :icon_eek: ... if its outside then nowhere near as bad i think?
I did put seafoam in the cylinder heads when I put new spark plugs in to lubricate the pistons.. Could that be it? I doubt that because the white smoke isn't coming out of the exhaust anymore and it only smokes up a lot when I give the bike some throttle
hrm .. that amount of smoke cant just appear without a visible origin point .. where is it smoking from? ... near head/jug join? ... up from under tank area (a breather pipe or pcv missing?) ? ... down in a crevice in there somewhere? ...
... you havent got that fibreglass header wrap on the exhaust have you? ... that stuff smokes when new .. or when it gets oily crap in it ...
gotta get your face and camera down in there below tank level and look where its coming from! :thumb:
I found the origin of the smoke
http://instagram.com/p/bpE9ldlS3N/ not sure what's happening
Is that coming out of the valve cover or the spark plug?
it is swirling around a lot... but .. looks like from valve cover .. air movement suggests that also ... needs a gasket?
only other place from that vid is from those cooling fins in the 'valley' area ... gunk build up? .. though i think the smoke would more likely just rise and stream away .. not swirl..
anyone run a motor without valve cover? ... do they smoke without valve cover like that? ... i would guess no! .. but i dunno :dunno_black:
How would I get that gunk out? If there is actually gunk in there?
good big squirt of degreaser .. let it soak for a little.. cloth on end of screwdriver to nudge a little maybe? ... strong water jet from a good garden hose .. maybe a pressure cleaner but watch what you aim at!.. get most of it out probably.... thats only for in the cooling fins outside the motor though ...
if it is vapours coming from the valve cover .. dont direct water there! .. dont need H20 inside your engine!
My guess is that the valve cover has been removed at least once, and that either:
- The rubber-ish gasket was not seated properly when the cover was replaced, so it (the gasket) got "pinched" and prevented a proper seal, OR
- An excess of gasket sealer was used ... but that seems unlikely as a cause for the "leak" unless it was allowed to dry and harden before the cover was replaced.
I would have to remove the cover that you're holding in your profile picture and replace the gasket?
Well, pull the cover first and see if the gasket has been squeezed / crushed near the area where the vapor is coming out. (It can be hard to position it just right during reassembly; I try to "finger inspect" it all the way around before tightening down the bolts.)
If it is crushed, see whether you think it's bad enough to need replacement. It might be sufficient to apply some gasket sealer and seat it correctly ... but that will be your call.
I'm the exact opposite of a motorcycle mechanic... It's like you're speaking another language
Hmmm. Trying to figure out the best place to start.... (http://bbburma.net/Smilies/headscratch.gif)
Have you watched the "Valve Adjustment" video that my avatar image was pulled from? You can ignore the actual checking and adjustment of valve clearances for now, but it might be helpful to watch the initial "disassembly" portion ... up to the point where I remove the valve cover ... and then skip almost to the end where I discuss putting things back together (which is where that image comes from).
Here is a set of related links that I keep in an electronic "sticky note". It looks like the first 2 links don't work anymore :icon_eek: but the last 3 are all from my own webspace:
My GS500 Valve Adjustment Video
Streaming (Google) video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2015554469142545363&q=GS500&pl=true
Full size, from the CD I used to ship (550MB)
http://www.jackardisana.com/gs500/GS500ValveAdjustment.wmv
Lower resolution, with auxiliary files (221MB)
http://bbburma.net/Videos/GS500_ValveAdjustment.zip
Photos of Valve Adjustment Kits
First Kit: http://bbburma.net/MiscFotos/100_1983_ValveToolPackage.jpg
Second Kit: http://bbburma.net/MiscFotos/CX7530_0214_NewValveToolkitContents.jpg