Yesterday, my GS500F overheated while stuck in traffic on the hot NYC roads. White smoke started coming out of the exhaust but it was a while before I got somewhere safe to pull over. Almost immediately after I pulled off the highway, my engine made a pop noise and started sputtering... I fear the worst. I rode it somewhere safe to park nearby and left it for a few hours.
As of last night the bike still runs. There is a slight rattling noise coming from the engine that seems to match with the revs. There is a lack of throttle response whenever I start moving from a stand still. Even if I give the throttle a good twist, it would not so anything for a split second and then shoot up to 5k pretty quickly. There is a lack of power and acceleration at higher speeds but I'm too afraid to ride it anymore to test it. Idle is pretty low around 1000-1200 and still sputters occasionally. Oil level is good.
What kind of damage do you guys think I'm looking at? And how much do you think it'd cost to repair... :cry: Any suggestions you guys have will be greatly appreciated as well. I'm probably going to bring it to the shop soon so I will update with details as I learn more.
A healthy engine should not have overheated due to traffic. I'm guessing your exhaust valves were running tight and you burnt a valve. All bets are off on what else could be damaged. Worst case scenario is $500 for a new used engine on eBay.
How many miles are on your bike?
There are roughly 12,xxx miles on the bike right now, a little on the high side I think.
I thought one reason my engine was running so badly is because one of the cylinders is malfunctioning. I took a look at the spark plugs; they were dirty but there was still a spark. Unfortunately, I don't know much about how to diagnose and fix bikes so that was the most I could do. What are some symptoms of exhaust valves running tight? Are there any checks that I can do, short of pulling the engine?
I'm remaining hopeful because my engine can still run so I am hoping to avoid the hassle of finding an engine and replacing it. Unless whatever I broke is more expensive to fix than just buying a new engine..
Bro, mine has 80 000k's plus on it and still pulling like an ox ('99 gs500e). 12000 miles isn't that much for these engines. Properly looked after, they seem to live for ever.
My bike jus did the same thing and my engine is totally garbage once you overheat a Gs ND it starts making tht rattling noise mine as well start looking for another engine
Good to know that my engine is still a baby. Now if only I could nurse it back to health...
Florida, did you get your bike looked over yet? If so, what was the diagnosis?
Check oil. Bet it's related to that in some regard.
Never-mind...Just read the oil part.
I think you have an intake manifold leak or an exhaust leak.
Your symptoms all match, spray wd 40 in the inatke area ... if revs go up that = intake leak.
Cool.
Buddha.
My quick googling seems to confirm your suspicions, Buddha, thanks. I'll test it on Wednesday and report back. Although it doesn't deal with the rattling sound? (Unless that is caused by the burnt exhaust valve that bombsquad mentioned)
No dice, Buddha... I sprayed some WD40 on whatever parts of the intake manifold I could reach but there was no increase in revs.
A couple things I noticed though, in order for the bike to even start and idle, I need to have the choke fully open. Even with it fully open, my idle hovers around 1000. Also, the air coming out from the exhaust is pretty forceful, much more so than before. I can now very clearly feel each puff of air coming out.
I'm quite lost... I'm taking it to get looked at on Sunday but I would still like to find out more in the meantime. Any more suggestions on things to check?
Here's something that might help. I took a video as I was spraying around the manifold and you can hear what's wrong. Exhaust valve?
I cant look @ video clips @ work, but rattling with either intake or exhaust is common ... air's getting in or out through a non air passage ... so does sound. Exhaust leaks can be rather loud ...
Cool.
Buddha.
So the verdict is in... Bombsquad called it right from the beginning: the mechanic says its a bent/burnt/broken exhaust valve. His quote to rebuild the engine was expensive, a quick estimate was $900. Even to replace the engine with a new one would be just as expensive.
Here's my question now, it seems that the quote for $900 mainly consists of labor and not parts. How hard would it be if I were to attempt to replace the valve on my own? I have never taken an engine apart before. Would I be in over my head? Any special procedures that I wouldn't be able to do on my own?
My other options would be to source a new engine cheaply and try to replace it on my own or just cut my losses, sell the bike for whatever I can, and buy another.
Oooo bud...having never cracked a block, I don't know if i'd recommend it. Valves need specialised tools: valve compressors just for a start. Not only that, but it's getting cams re-aligned, timing back in, re-seating if the head is slightly damaged from the valve...to use a south africanism it is a kak load of work.
No better way to LEARN about an engine, but don't expect it to be a two-hour job. So, if you're keen for the challenge..go for it. Sure there will be plenty of guys on the forum willing to lend a hand along the way as well.
Personally, i'd try find a back-yarder friend with all the right tools already and offer him a good bottle of whiskey or such like for his advice, tools and hands (being a first-timer). It's not a 'change a sprocket' or an oil-change sort of a job, so some knowledge and experience would help you a lot.
Good luck, man...keep us all posted. :thumb:
Broke valve ... motor is a paperweight. It will have beat the hell out of the lower end.
I'd prolly look for a motor ... or in fact see if a dr650 motor will fit.
Cool.
Srinath.
Look around for GSJack's post about replacing a broken valve. Then put several miles on the undamaged bottom end.
Thanks for the replies guys.
Nutmunk, that's exactly what I needed to know. I do have a friend who knows about engines, although he works on cars. However, I figure the functional aspects between a car and a motorcycle engine must be pretty similar. In any case, it won't hurt to ask and see what he says.
I'll also check and see if I can pick up any motors (as Buddha suggested) for cheap although I'm not sure if I want to be on ebay and craigslist for a long time waiting on a good deal.
I'm most likely leaning towards selling the bike and see if anyone will want to pick it up. Maybe even scrapping it or parting it out? It is heart wrenching to do so but financially, it makes the most sense. I'll do more research on my three options though (rebuild the engine, swap the engine, sell the bike) and update everyone as I move along.
Here's another thought I just had: Can I just search for a new top end of the engine and swap out the whole thing on my own? That seems to be easier and bypass a lot of the things that Nutmunk mentioned (don't need a valve compressor, don't need to re-align cams, timing back in, reseating head if damaged). I reason that would be a fair bit easier than dismantling the head and replacing just the valve on my own? I came across something that said that if you want to replace the exhaust valve, you need to send the head to a machine shop. Is that true?
On the other hand, as Buddha said, the lower end could be beat up and I wouldn't have much of an idea of what's going on down there till unless I open it up. Do you guys think just replacing the head is a viable option?
EDIT: I lied. Reinstalling a new head would mean taking off the camshafts to sneak under the timing chain so I'd still need to worry about the timing.
If a valve, then a replacement top end from any year GS500 would fit. Not hard to replace a top end. Just be careful you separate the head from the jugs so you don't pull the jugs up and off of the pistons (pain to get the pistons back in).
A replacement top can be $100-$200. An hour or three to put it on. You do not have to remove the engine to do it.
No harm in removing the head to check it out. I'd do that before paying someone more than the cost of a replacement engine to repair it.
Quote from: adidasguy on July 02, 2013, 12:17:08 AM
If a valve, then a replacement top end from any year GS500 would fit. Not hard to replace a top end. Just be careful you separate the head from the jugs so you don't pull the jugs up and off of the pistons (pain to get the pistons back in).
A replacement top can be $100-$200. An hour or three to put it on. You do not have to remove the engine to do it.
No harm in removing the head to check it out. I'd do that before paying someone more than the cost of a replacement engine to repair it.
Adidasguy for the win....didn't even think about a head swap. That'll work perfectly. :thumb:
Quote from: nutmunk on July 02, 2013, 04:07:49 AM
Quote from: adidasguy on July 02, 2013, 12:17:08 AM
If a valve, then a replacement top end from any year GS500 would fit. Not hard to replace a top end. Just be careful you separate the head from the jugs so you don't pull the jugs up and off of the pistons (pain to get the pistons back in).
A replacement top can be $100-$200. An hour or three to put it on. You do not have to remove the engine to do it.
No harm in removing the head to check it out. I'd do that before paying someone more than the cost of a replacement engine to repair it.
Adidasguy for the win....didn't even think about a head swap. That'll work perfectly. :thumb:
Probably not.
A valve that has broke off and dropped in the cyl when the bike was running will have done lots of piston and rod bearing damage.
You wont know what damage till you yank that head off. Of course there is no reason a valve will break off without the bike running ... but if that was the case ... head swap all the way ... :thumb:
Cool.
Buddha.
I don't think that it's gaurenteed to have done in the bottom end. I would take the head and jugs off and inspect everything. Test the piston rods and crank for unwanted play or physical damage.
You cant quite tell that rod and play business ...
However if you take off the head and find damage to the piston form the valve - your bottom end is dead.
If you find no damage to the piston - its pristine - just like the other one - the bottom end is fine
There is a huge grey area in the middle - it has damage but not so bad ... You will then have to figure out what you want to do.
Cool.
Buddha.
I would try a compression check on the cylinder...if a valve is just bent or burnt, it should still have some compression? As opposed to if it has broken off entirely where there will be no compression at all?
Watched the video...she doesn't sound like she's running on one only, so i'm guessing the valve is just damaged, not broken.
Correct me if i'm wrong here guys...
Quote from: nutmunk on July 02, 2013, 09:40:50 AM
I would try a compression check on the cylinder...if a valve is just bent or burnt, it should still have some compression? As opposed to if it has broken off entirely where there will be no compression at all?
Watched the video...she doesn't sound like she's running on one only, so i'm guessing the valve is just damaged, not broken.
Correct me if i'm wrong here guys...
Maybe, but it doesn't really matter at this point. He already needs to take the head completely off and inspect it anyway.
Quote from: bombsquad83 on July 02, 2013, 06:06:59 PM
Quote from: nutmunk on July 02, 2013, 09:40:50 AM
I would try a compression check on the cylinder...if a valve is just bent or burnt, it should still have some compression? As opposed to if it has broken off entirely where there will be no compression at all?
Watched the video...she doesn't sound like she's running on one only, so i'm guessing the valve is just damaged, not broken.
Correct me if i'm wrong here guys...
Maybe, but it doesn't really matter at this point. He already needs to take the head completely off and inspect it anyway.
If a valve bent will not run on that cyl.
If its broken, it will make a banging sound like you're hitting the piston with a hammer ... which you are.
If neither ... you may still ahve issues, but it aint one of those.
Cool.
Buddha.
Thank for the conversation everyone, you have all given me hope. Also, shout out to Adidas for offering his insight.
After reading what everyone had to say, here are my plans for this weekend:
- Pull the spark plugs and try to do a visual inspection to see if there's a broken valve in the cylinder or any broken metal bits (Thanks for the concern, Buddha). I pray that there aren't. If there are, I can skip the next two bullets.
- Hold my breath and take the bike out for one final trip to get a second opinion from another recommended shop. See what he quotes.
- If I can afford it, I'll have the shop do the work.
- If not, I'll purchase this head: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-Gs500-Engine-Cylinder-Head-GS-500-GS500E-/221244839309?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item338338558d&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-Gs500-Engine-Cylinder-Head-GS-500-GS500E-/221244839309?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item338338558d&vxp=mtr) and attempt to replace the head on my own. I found a pretty straightforward guide here: http://beergarage.com/GSHeadOff.aspx (http://beergarage.com/GSHeadOff.aspx) and BaltimoreGS has some pretty great videos that goes through head removal as well. I'll also have to purchase a Clymer manual off this site and some necessary tools.
Any guides that you can link me to or general bits of advice to give me would be greatly appreciated. I'll be around to give an update by this weekend!
Update:
Pulled the spark plugs and took a peek inside. Shined a light in there and there didn't seem to be any metal bits of a valve laying in the cylinder but on the right side of my bike, I can actually see the edge of the exhaust valve. On the left side, I can't see the exhaust valve and on neither side can I see the intake valve. This makes me more confident that a valve just lost its seating when I overheated the bike.
Took it to two shops this weekend. The first ended up not actually being a repair shop but dealt more with vintage restorations. I asked anyways and he said that he could do it for me (kinda pricey) provided that I order and bring in a new head but at that point, I might as well get my hands dirty and do the project myself. I left my bike overnight at another shop and the owner told me that he didn't think I have a burnt/broken exhaust valve, saying that the head gasket should go first when an engine overheats and even if my valve burned, it should be quieter and not be making a rattling noise (???). He wanted me to leave my bike there again for a few days and charge me $75 to diagnose to problem by checking for spark and doing a compression test. I graciously declined and took my bike back.
Now, I plan to tackle the problem on my own, having done a lot more research on my own. My next steps will be to take off the cylinder head tomorrow and gauge the damage. Depending on what I find, I may decide to move forward and buy a replacement head for the bike or sell it if there is damage the the lower end as well. Updates soon!
You can probably see the valve just because that's where it is in the cycle. The intakes are both closed and one exhaust valve is being pushed open by the cam. Can't really tell anything from this, other than you don't have a valve completely broken off into the cylinder.
Good point, I didn't realize that. I guess I'll just have to wait till the damn thing comes off to see whats wrong.
Here's a problem I ran into as I started today. The inside allen bolts on the exhaust heads are super rusty and rounded off as I tried to take them out... Anyone have any tips on getting it out? Vice grips don't quite fit but perhaps the pair I have is just too big.
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Sometimes you can hammer in a similar size torx bit or slightly larger English size. Vice grips would be good if you can reach it.
EDIT: before you take the head off, did you ever do a compression test?
I tried a torx bit but that rounded off as well. It's impossible to grab the bolts with anything other than the tip of the claws held vertically and there's not enough strength gripping the bolt in that case.
I never did a compression test, my reasoning being that once I got the head off, I could visually tell what the problems are. I could put the carbs and tank back on and buy a compression tester kit though. What are the benefits of doing that?
Don't need the carbs for a compression test. It will at least tell you if valves or rings are a problem to begin with.
Quote from: AlexT on July 07, 2013, 09:02:04 AM
Good point, I didn't realize that. I guess I'll just have to wait till the damn thing comes off to see whats wrong.
Here's a problem I ran into as I started today. The inside allen bolts on the exhaust heads are super rusty and rounded off as I tried to take them out... Anyone have any tips on getting it out? Vice grips don't quite fit but perhaps the pair I have is just too big.
Get a Dremel or hacksaw blade & cut a slot in the top of the bolt.....use an impact driver with straight tip to remove bolt.
Save yourself huge headaches if u do this properly(removing front wheel/fork brace/guard)
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I drilled out that one, took the forks off and crouched in there with the bike strung up from the rafters of my friends shop. PITA.
You may be able to get an allen head socket inserted in there and welded as well as you can with the cyls wrapped with a wet towel ... so they dont burn ... cos you gonna be using a mig or stick welder ... and see if you can get it off that way. Easier than drilling IMHO.
Cool.
Buddha.
Be careful with those bolts. If you break them you have to take the head off. Ask me how I know.
When you do get them out, I recommend putting studs back in their place (M8 x 1.25 I believe), so all you have are nuts on the ends.
Part of the problem why these allen bolts get stripped is cos ppl use Imperial keys instead of Metric....their similar physically but NOT exact.
Alternative : for worn hex nuts I use easy-outs. Bigger sizes fit nicely into the heads.
Alex, why not give it a try yourself. We all started out clueless, scared of making a stuff-up, but now many of us can do a complete engine reco. it's just about DOING it, that's how you learn... you'll find it really satisfying, and you'll save a load of dollars. There's an amazing amount of help and support on forums like this. Go fer it!
-J
Whoops, I mouthed off before reading the 2nd page of the thread... Anyway the point still stands, just want to encourage people to DIY. Motorbike mechanics are just like you and me, the only difference is that they've learnt about it and done it.
Quote from: fetor56 on July 07, 2013, 09:00:52 PM
Part of the problem why these allen bolts get stripped is cos ppl use Imperial keys instead of Metric....their similar physically but NOT exact.
Or poor quality tools...had many a mate cry after taking a poor quality set of soft sockets or hex keys to their baby and end up stuffing up bolts. Their's a reason why name-brand tools cost a little extra.
I bought a compression tester so I'll give it a shot and report back with the results soon.
These bolts sure are a pain... I looked all over the bike and the exhaust bolts are the only ones in such terrible condition. I would've thought the front bolts holding the oil filter cover would be just as bad but they are pretty rust free.
I'll save drilling out for a last resort. I'm not even sure on how to do that but it seems way too easy to damage the head that way. I can't get access to a welder so can't go that route either. Once I get them off (IF I get them off) I'll definitely have to replace them with new bolts or studs.
I definitely was guilty of the imperial vs metric mistake. I just grabbed the one that looked the right size, saw that it fit, and started turning. It very well may have been the wrong size... I'll let that be a painful lesson learned =(
Nutmunk, I bought an easy-out but it's not any industrial strength kind and it looks like it's meant to take off screws and bolts that aren't rusted tight. Never used one before so I don't have much faith but I'm going to take off the front wheel and guard anyways and give it a shot. Going to give this Irwin bolt extractor a try too (http://www.amazon.com/Irwin-Industrial-Tools-394001-Bolt-Grip/dp/B0000CCXVZ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373329666&sr=8-1&keywords=irwin+bolt+extractor#productDetails (http://www.amazon.com/Irwin-Industrial-Tools-394001-Bolt-Grip/dp/B0000CCXVZ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373329666&sr=8-1&keywords=irwin+bolt+extractor#productDetails)). The reviews seem good and it seems like it may work.
Joolstacho, yep I'm going at it on my own! Two days in and I've already hit a big snag and I'm sure this is only the tip of the iceberg. Thanks for the encouragement and thanks to everyone for their replies, I'll be sure to keep this thread updated as I go along. Here's a photo for everyone. She just sits in my garage silently waiting for me to get this dang bolt off...
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It might help to soak it in some deep creep or penetrating oil before the next attempt.
Also, remember the 'heat-spanner' for those 'bastard' seized bolts/nuts!
Try using a MAPP gas torch or heat gun to heat up the area around the seized nut/bolt, you'd be surprised how often this works when other methods fail. And... cautionary note on 'Easy-outs', -yup they can work, BUT if one snaps inside the drilling you're done for... they're super-hard and impossible to drill out.
-Jools
Just a note for easy outs as well...I don't use then in a drill ever!!! Use an adjustable tap wrench...they offer a lot more control so you have less chance of snapping it off.
Touch wood, but I haven't broken one yet.
Normally what I do is q20 the shizness out of the bolt as well just to get some lube in as well.
Good luck bud. :thumb:
Here are the compression test results... not quite sure what to make of it:
Left cylinder: just a tad under 150 psi (145? 147?). Seems to be good.
Right cylinder: barely any compression... about 13 psi
I put a spoonful of oil in the right cylinder, tested it again, and it bumped up to about 30 psi.
I wasn't able to do a test with the engine warm, I don't think it would make much of a difference, would it? I read that a noticeable psi increase after putting oil in the cylinder would point to cylinder, piston, or piston ring damage... 17 psi doesn't quite count as noticeable I would think. So all should point towards the exhaust valve?
I've been spraying PB Blaster at the header bolts for a few days now to no avail. I'm waiting till tomorrow to pick up those Irwin bolt extractors and give those a shot. If they don't work, I'll be working my way down the list of suggestions that other people posted.
Looks like a confirmed valve problem.
Yeah, as robust as these engines are, they still need moving air to cool them. the stop and go does heat em up really good and yes you can overheat these engines. while they may not be hurt in the bottom end (crank and counter bal shaft) the top end is what cooks, here is most likely what happen and your compression test kinda confirms it. the engine got hot enough to cook the oil off the exhaust valve and it started sticking, when this happens one of 2 things happens, exhaust sticks open and it meets MR piston :technical: or it sticks open and MR's intake valve pushes his ass out the way. it didnt have any power as you were running on 1 cyl. once the bike cooled down the valve guide released its death grip and let the valve move again giving you your current tapping. the valve isnt closeing all the way which is why you have no compression in that cyl. the heads are pretty tough, alot of times you can get away with replaceing the damaged valve, dress up the valve seat a touch, the guide might need replacement might not, it would need to be checked, and replace the valve stem seal. when doing this kind of work its a good idea to have all the valves freshend up with a lapping and stem seals. THEN you need to redo the valve lash. I think kerry had a kit circling among the twiners here. you will have to redo the lash on all the valves once the valves have been done. if you can get ahold of the tools, you can do all the work, its not hard. easyer still is find a half decent head, relap the valves, change the valve stem seals and bolt it on with fresh gasket and O-rings
oh, as to your exhaust bolts, even if you snap em off, dilling them out with the head on a bench is far easyer to deal with.
Hey guys, unfortunately, the DIY route isn't going so well. Those two bolts absolutely refuse to come off for me. I'm sure someone with more experience would have the tools and know-how to get them off. I even resorted to try drilling them out but when I went to take the front wheel off, I ended up rounding another bolt and partially rounding another nut :mad: I made sure to have the correct fitting imperial sizes this time so the only reason left is that I have some pretty crap quality tools (which could be a possibility).
I decided to just rid myself of the headache and took it to another shop. I'm sure any mechanic would have dealt with their fair share of rusty bolts so I'll leave it to the experts. He was backed up this whole week (small shop) but he said to give him a call next week and he'll be able to do a leakdown test to tell me, money-wise, if it's worth saving or not.
I'd also hate to do this but at this point I'm considering selling for a loss as well. I have no clue about what my bike is worth anymore though so I'll make another post asking for people's opinions.
Quote from: Blueknyt on July 10, 2013, 08:40:37 PM
oh, as to your exhaust bolts, even if you snap em off, dilling them out with the head on a bench is far easyer to deal with.
Blueknyt - you're back ... Blueknyt rises ...
Cool.
Buddha.
Yeah im back Budda, might need some of your carb magic as ive been outa the game for awhile. some if its coming slowly back. AlexT, the bike is paid for, its a good bike. get the bolts off, even if they break, you can deal with them later, or have the shop deal with them when you hand them the head and new parts to do the valves job for you, worse case if the head is shot, broken bolts will no longer matter, you turn your concern to another head. here is one thats not bad according to pix
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-1993-GS500-GS-500-GS500E-500E-E-Engine-Cylinder-Head-/380679876835?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item58a249f0e3&vxp=mtr
price isnt too terrible and includes shipping. have a machine shop to a quick valve job on it and change the valve stem seals and you should be golden.
Awesome, thanks a lot Blueknyt. I'll be back to update by the weekend.
So I realize I never did update this thread... so in case anyone is still interested in how this is going, here's an update nearly a month later.
After my last post, I had to go back to the shop 2 times for him to have time to take a look at my bike. Unfortunately, after one of those visits, I dropped my bike for the first time :mad: (the shop is up a hill on a dead end street, tricky for a new rider). Definitely going to have to practice low speed maneuvering on hills once I get it all fixed up. When I went back to the shop a second time, he did a leakdown test and confirmed it was a valve problem and I left the bike there while I went online to round up some parts.
Here's a list of parts that I bought:
- used head off ebay
- head gasket
- o rings for head bolts
- exhaust gaskets
- R&G frame sliders (paranoid about dropping my bike again!)
- vortex clip ons (old handlebars bent with the drop)
- clutch lever (so did this)
- bar ends
- foam grips
The parts came in slowly over the past few weeks and I just brought them all to the shop today. If all goes well, I should be riding again by next weekend!
Take a look at the damage the overheated engine caused. The valves were fine surprisingly! But there's a chunk missing from the seat on the head. The first picture show light peeking out from behind the valve where the missing chunk is and the second picture shows the damage. I didn't snap a picture of this but those two stubborn exhaust bolts were seized beyond belief and the mechanic just cut them off at the head.
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Nevermind, didn't realize this was up to three pages already.
Quote from: Blueknyt on July 19, 2013, 10:34:14 PM
Yeah im back Budda, might need some of your carb magic as ive been outa the game for awhile. some if its coming slowly back. AlexT, the bike is paid for, its a good bike. get the bolts off, even if they break, you can deal with them later, or have the shop deal with them when you hand them the head and new parts to do the valves job for you, worse case if the head is shot, broken bolts will no longer matter, you turn your concern to another head. here is one thats not bad according to pix
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-1993-GS500-GS-500-GS500E-500E-E-Engine-Cylinder-Head-/380679876835?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item58a249f0e3&vxp=mtr
price isnt too terrible and includes shipping. have a machine shop to a quick valve job on it and change the valve stem seals and you should be golden.
New custom title for you.
yep. you need a new head.
i gotta say, ive seen valve seats drop, and get chewed, ive never seen one bust apart still seated......... must have been REALLY REALLY hot.
or something hard was floating around in there also?
Attached is a photo of the new head (which should be getting installed as I'm writing this). Believe it or not, it actually is a head off of a 2004 engine but the previous owner had spray painted it black for some reason. The head was in good condition when I bought it but when I opened the package, I found that a cooling fin got cracked during shipping! Goddamn...
The mechanic said the same thing. This is probably the first time he's seen a seat break like that before. He said more than likely, my valves clearances were way tight to begin with and sitting in traffic was the tipping point. The chipped piece either disintegrated or got shot out of the exhaust because the pistons and cylinder walls were undamaged (thank goodness! :bowdown: )
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yeah, the fin broken wont hurt you, if 50% of the fins were like that then it might be an issue. tight valve would have made no difference, it just wouldnt seal very well and bleed hot gasses back into the cyl on the intake stroke kinda like spoiling the mix. however, the valve seats are just rings of steal that are harder then aluminum, they dont expand and contract as much or as quickly when heated. they are held in place by interference fit. ive seen the aluminum head expand enough to loosen the grip on a valve seat and have it drop (but there were signs of catastrophic heat levels elsewhere too) BTW, its a good way to remove snaped bolts too. warm up the aluminum around the bolt with a small propane torch. ive also seen the "Canned Air" turned upside down so as to super cool the bolt shocking the threads . but NOS or R22/12 works better in that reguard :D
Sorry for bringing up an old thread again but just wanted to offer a final update so there's some closure.
Got the bike back yesterday!! :woohoo:
Everything was clean as can be. New head on, valve clearances checked, carbs cleaned, synced and WOW, what a difference it all made. I didn't even know what I was missing before. Compared to before I blew the valve seat, the engine feels so much stronger and sounds much smoother than before. There is more engine braking now but I'll get used to it.
The clip ons feel amazing and loving the lower riding posture. Putting them on also meant lowering the front end about 1.5" and that made a world of difference in seat height; I can almost put both heels down firmly now.
Here's a picture just to end this post. Took a quick ride around the marina today and man it was awesome. The fairings are still sitting in my garage (took them off because I didn't want them to get thrown around at the bike shop). I'll have to cut holes for the sliders to stick through and put them back on at some point. Next up is an oil change before riding it anymore because who knows what could've fell in the oil during this whole 2 month ordeal. Thanks for all the support and suggestions from everyone.
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Congrats and enjoy
Nice going - glad to see it's sorted, valuable info for others too.