Hello all, Last year I picked up a stock 04 GS500F and have been very happy with it so far. This year as I was doing my pre season tune up, I noticed both cylinders are running lean. After a little research I found that this is common for these little twins. The first thing I did was inspect the carbs, lines and boots as well as spray test for vaccum leaks, and everything is in good order. So my question is why are these bikes so lean from factory? I have been considering jetting up one size and shimming the needle one notch. Being an 04 mine has three jets, pilot, mid main, and main. So my other question is are the dynojet kits any good? I have read mixed reviews. I still have to pull the tank off and check the petcocks to make sure it is not being starved from there. I should add that it runs good from Idle to redline (not that I ever redline it). The only bit of poor performance is during cold starts, if I don't let it get up to full temp it will lean pop without the choke on for the first few miles and then run and Idle fine. This bike is def cold blooded. Is there something I am missing?
Lance.
EPA ...
Cool.
Buddha.
Nevermind that the GS has a net lower environmental impact than a Prius if you factor in the batteries...
Nevermind that it gets 50-60MPG and you look cooler on it than a Prius...
Nevermind that it has a carburetor and not Injection...
It's all about the level of emissions (CO2, NOX, etc.) per unit of exhaust. The GS may emit less overall, but the level of emissions per unit of air/exhaust causes it to be lean.
Plus dont forget, people usuallu junk a perfectly nice car like say a chrysler new yorker via a cash for clunckers program to buy the bloody prius.
What a POS system. I went to pull a part over the weekend ... there were cars that were in mint condition, 90's cars that were Cash for clunkers cars. means they had liquid glass put in the motor and run till they blew up right ?
What A$$HOLE would do that.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: jestercinti on July 02, 2013, 06:16:23 AM
Nevermind that the GS has a net lower environmental impact than a Prius if you factor in the batteries...
Nevermind that it gets 50-60MPG and you look cooler on it than a Prius...
Nevermind that it has a carburetor and not Injection...
It's all about the level of emissions (CO2, NOX, etc.) per unit of exhaust. The GS may emit less overall, but the level of emissions per unit of air/exhaust causes it to be lean.
Minor point but the regulations are level of emissions over unit of distance, not unit of exhaust (whatever that means) and automobile standards are much more stringent than motorcycle standards.
The GS was set up lean from the factory in order to meet the hydrocarbon emissions standard. The tougher 2010 motorcycle standards have pretty much killed carbureted large displacement bikes.
Quote from: Ric0157 on July 02, 2013, 05:47:28 AM
..............a stock 04 GS500F....................... The only bit of poor performance is during cold starts, if I don't let it get up to full temp it will lean pop without the choke on for the first few miles and then run and Idle fine. This bike is def cold blooded. Is there something I am missing?
Lance.
Your missing having learned how to drive a car decades ago before efi, before automatic chokes, when everyone actually learned how to use a manual choke if they wanted to drive year around.
I start my 02 GS, put on my helmet and gloves, pull out of my garage and close door, and then ride off still on partial choke, when I pull out of the drive onto the front street I can give it all the throttle I want without balking, popping, or any other hitch. Good to go even at sub-freezing temps. I close the choke completely after one to several blocks depending on ambient temp.
Put 80k miles on my 97 GS with 2 circuit carbs and have about 99k miles on my 02 on untouched stock carbs riding year around here in NE Ohio. The 97 was too lean below freezing without jetting but I had an old CM400A I used for a winter bike. But the 02 has been good to go year around with it's 3 circuit carbs and doubt the later F models would be different in this regard.
I always say "don't mess with your carbs and they won't mess with you"
After doing some more research I think I am just going to shim the needles with one washer and see if that helps. The only problem is I can not get my hands on #4 washers in my town, the closest I could find is a #6. I take it the #6 is too big?
So It turns out there is a K&N drop in replacement filter and the needles have already been shimmed one notch. This is the first time I have had the carbs open on this bike, and everything looks good so far. I added one shim, put it back together, and the difference is night and day. I only had to choke it for about half the time it used to before idling on its own, and did not pop or sputter at all upon take off with no choke. It felt way better on early accelleration as well. I am calling this one a win for sure! :thumb:
Two things I can think of about bikes being lean.
#1: When on the side stand they lean. If on the center stand they don't lean. I think side stands are designed so the bike is lean when it is parked on the side stand or they would fall over.
#2. Bikes are not made in the USA. Here, everyone is fat from all the growth hormones and junk in our food. Bikes are made elsewhere where the growth hormones are not allowed in the food so bikes are fed a better diet as they grow up and therefore are lean, not fat and overweight (like Harleys are big overweight American made bikes.)
(I can come up with more ideas if you need to read them.)
Quote from: adidasguy on July 02, 2013, 03:59:09 PM
Two things I can think of about bikes being lean.
#1: When on the side stand they lean. If on the center stand they don't lean. I think side stands are designed so the bike is lean when it is parked on the side stand or they would fall over.
#2. Bikes are not made in the USA. Here, everyone is fat from all the growth hormones and junk in our food. Bikes are made elsewhere where the growth hormones are not allowed in the food so bikes are fed a better diet as they grow up and therefore are lean, not fat and overweight (like Harleys are big overweight American made bikes.)
(I can come up with more ideas if you need to read them.)
:icon_rolleyes: :D .. you practicing for another dip into the TF LPW again Addy? ... Bring it! .. :thumb:
Quote from: gsJack on July 02, 2013, 09:34:28 AM
Your missing having learned how to drive a car decades ago before efi, before automatic chokes, when everyone actually learned how to use a manual choke if they wanted to drive year around.
I always say "don't mess with your carbs and they won't mess with you"
I know how to do that!! :D .. and almost how to use a crash-box car without making nasty noises ... strangely enough i can handle a crash-box truck smoothly .. (maybe cos its bigger and slower/smoother in the gearbox?!) ...
and yes .. ive not bothered to touch my carbs .. dont know if the PO ever did , though i suspect not .. my GS has very little to no trouble engine wise .. (might have to investigate valveshims eventually but no issues noticed yet! at 17.800 km) ... couple of mates are right into 'this jet and that setting' to maximise :icon_rolleyes: performance on various bikes they have .. and they seem to be constantly fiddling and adjusting the damn things too!! ..
i intend to have a bike with more power and performance and speed sooner or later ... another bike with a bigger motor!... this one just keeps on ticking along nicely so i leave it alone!! :thumb:
Quote from: Ric0157 on July 02, 2013, 03:00:35 PM
So It turns out there is a K&N drop in replacement filter and the needles have already been shimmed one notch. This is the first time I have had the carbs open on this bike, and everything looks good so far. I added one shim, put it back together, and the difference is night and day. I only had to choke it for about half the time it used to before idling on its own, and did not pop or sputter at all upon take off with no choke. It felt way better on early accelleration as well. I am calling this one a win for sure! :thumb:
That K&N air filter messed with your carbs making their performance different from my 3 circuit ones. The lower restriction K&N reduced carb inner pressure and resulted in less fuel flow thru the jets installed by Suzuki. Suzuki has even tuned their air filters a bit to get them running right. Copied from old post of mine:
I've always assumed the air filter elements were the same for all GS500/E/F models. Wrong again! :icon_lol: They look the same but are actually a bit different. Putting the 13780-01D00 in RonAyers' reverse lookup and checking MrCycles part fiches show it's currently used for 89 thru 2000 E models and 04-09 F models. Checking the 13780-01D10 shows it's used for 01-02 and 04-06 F models. There's some confusion on the 04-06 F models, could be one is used for CA models and the other for rest of US?
The filter element top and bottom plates, wire mesh, and filter paper appear the same on all but the 01-02 D10 filters have a sleeve extending down about 1.5" or so into the inside of the filter element restricting the air flow a bit. Seem the same otherwise but they must still feel the D10 are best for our 01-02 models? :dunno_white:
I had some old filter elements from both my 97 and 02 GSs in the garage to check.
Quote from: Janx101 on July 02, 2013, 08:39:41 PM..........................I know how to do that!! :D .. and almost how to use a crash-box car without making nasty noises ... strangely enough i can handle a crash-box truck smoothly .. (maybe cos its bigger and slower/smoother in the gearbox?!) ...
Now that brings back a fond memory from 65 years ago, went to work in a garage in June when school was out for the summer when I was fifteen. Boss asked me if I could drive and I said yes, fortunately he didn't ask if I had a license. He had an old 28 Packard with a crash box for a parts car and I went gear clashing off the first time I drove it, you could hear folks shifting from blocks away on a clear day. :icon_lol: Came back from that trip of a few miles shifting smooth as silk thnking I would soon be doing the Indy 500.