i had the bike (first bike) for only a month and a week and unfortunately it broke down on me on the highway.
a couple of weeks earlier, i did an oil change. during the oil change i broke one of the oil filter cover screws and had to do with a home depot fix before the oem bolt i ordered came in. the next couple of weeks i noticed that there seemed a to be a problem with the choke and idle. the idle wouldn't remain consistent, sometimes it would be idling fine, sometimes it would hang at about 4-5000rpm, because of this the bike would get pretty hot. my friend suggested that the bike needed a carb sync, something i'll admit i neglected.
fast forward to when the bike broke down.
i was on the highway and the bike just instantly lost power, almost like it was in neutral except it was in gear, no response from the throttle at all. now, the bike does turn on, but will not start. it attempts to but just won't. we checked anything related to fuel, air, and the sparks, and everything was fine. we check the oil, and that's when we realized that there was none. the bike was running without engine oil.
so my question is, what could have happened while the engine was running without engine oil, that now prevents it from starting? has something broken, snapped maybe? any clues, advices?
Any weird noises coming from the crank-case? Knocks, slaps, taps, etc?
It does turn over, but won't fire up?
If I remember correctly, the carb sync is just a last-step fine tuning change to the carbs to make sure the bike idles smooth and has constant power through the throttle.
If it has spastic idle speed and choke issues it is more likely an issue within the carb than actual carb tuning.
I'd suggest taking the carbs apart and cleaning them very well, checking the gas tank for debris/rust, and installing an in-line fuel filter.
Another thing you could try is running the petcock on prime. If the carbs overflow you have bad needles/seats or improper float height, and if the engine runs fine now it could just be a bad/clogged petcock or a vacuum leak in the line to the petcock.
If it's cranking and won't start the first place I'd look is fuel delivery. Next would be ignition. A compression test wouldn't hurt either.
This is all assuming the engine is still ok, oil starvation is a serious issue.
Quote from: ayzeya on July 27, 2013, 01:08:46 PM
we check the oil, and that's when we realized that there was none. the bike was running without engine oil.
This means death for the engine. Get yourself another one.
Quote from: Paulcet on July 27, 2013, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: ayzeya on July 27, 2013, 01:08:46 PM
we check the oil, and that's when we realized that there was none. the bike was running without engine oil.
This means death for the engine. Get yourself another one.
This. Most likely running the engine with no oil has caused it to turn into a massive paperweight.
However, the severity of it can vary depending on the duration of oil starvation. I've seen engines do anything from wear out a bearing to completely seize up!
Since its turning it hasn't seized, which is good, but you have to give us more information if you can.
After the problem on the highway, did you ride it home or did you get it towed? Did the engine stall or did you turn it off?
After discovering it had no oil, did you fill it and attempt to start it?
Do you know where the oil went? (Did it leak out or burn up?)
Start from the ground up.
for one thing, you probly smoked the rings right out of it. BUT lets play the game anyway shall we? ive seen engines survive stuff it shouldnt.
First, put some oil into it, pull the spark plugs (yes both) and spin the engine over abit.(but only crank it for about 10 sec at a time and give it 10 sec resting so as to not cook the starter) let the oil pump through its veins. now, keep an eye on the red light by the gauges, it should go out shortly after you start cranking. durring rest time, look for where all that oil might have gone to (look for the leaks) so you might repair that should your engine survive. next your gonna want to do a compression test on both cyl and report what you find, test it dry, then put about a table spoon of engine oil down each spark plug and test them both again note the diff of each, (ie before oil in cylinders and after oil in cylinders) once done let us know what your numbers are and we will continue on to the next step.
Why do people never check their oil?
You should check it before EVERY ride. Same with tires, brakes, various bolts, ect
Quote from: Watcher on July 27, 2013, 02:17:59 PM
Any weird noises coming from the crank-case? Knocks, slaps, taps, etc?
It does turn over, but won't fire up?
If I remember correctly, the carb sync is just a last-step fine tuning change to the carbs to make sure the bike idles smooth and has constant power through the throttle.
If it has spastic idle speed and choke issues it is more likely an issue within the carb than actual carb tuning.
I'd suggest taking the carbs apart and cleaning them very well, checking the gas tank for debris/rust, and installing an in-line fuel filter.
Another thing you could try is running the petcock on prime. If the carbs overflow you have bad needles/seats or improper float height, and if the engine runs fine now it could just be a bad/clogged petcock or a vacuum leak in the line to the petcock.
If it's cranking and won't start the first place I'd look is fuel delivery. Next would be ignition. A compression test wouldn't hurt either.
This is all assuming the engine is still ok, oil starvation is a serious issue.
exactly, it turns over but just won't fire up like you said... and regarding noises, there is a very faint almost slapping sound when i try to start the bike. i'm not sure if that's normal or not.
regarding the petcock... man call me an idiot but i just realized now what the pri stands for. so literally right now i've just realized i've been running the bike on pri since i first got it. could that have played an issue in all this?
Sure could. Leaving it on prime can flood the carbs, which can flood the cylinders. Once gas is in the cylinders, it is possible to drain past your piston rings into the oil, and gasoline dilutes it. If the gas doesn't all get past your piston rings and rests on top of the pistons, it can cause hydrolock (liquid gas doesn't compress like gas vapor). It is possible to destroy a motor by hydrolocking it.
My suggestion: go to Autozone / Advanced / wherever and get a compression tester. They will rent it to you (you basically buy it, but get your money back when returned).
Quote from: Watcher on July 27, 2013, 03:38:21 PM
Quote from: Paulcet on July 27, 2013, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: ayzeya on July 27, 2013, 01:08:46 PM
we check the oil, and that's when we realized that there was none. the bike was running without engine oil.
This means death for the engine. Get yourself another one.
This. Most likely running the engine with no oil has caused it to turn into a massive paperweight.
However, the severity of it can vary depending on the duration of oil starvation. I've seen engines do anything from wear out a bearing to completely seize up!
Since its turning it hasn't seized, which is good, but you have to give us more information if you can.
After the problem on the highway, did you ride it home or did you get it towed? Did the engine stall or did you turn it off?
After discovering it had no oil, did you fill it and attempt to start it?
Do you know where the oil went? (Did it leak out or burn up?)
Start from the ground up.
the bike was towed from the highway. the engine stalled instantaneously, and since then i've never got the bike to start. once the bike came to a full stop on the shoulder of the highway, i immediately tried to start it, and it didn't start.
once i got the bike home and checked it out with a couple of friends who know a lot more about bikes/cars mechanically than me, that's when we realized there was no oil in the engine at all. keep in mind that i did just change the oil maybe 2 weeks prior to this. also, during that oil change, i broke one of the studs of the oil filter cover and had to make do with a home depot fix until the oem stud i ordered came in. i checked the bottom of the bike for leaks and never seen anything. i kept riding the bike... i forget if the problem with the idle was present even before the oil change, but what i did start noticing was that the engine was getting a lot hotter than it was when i first got the bike, as well as the problem with the idle. i had to continously keep adjusting the idle level so that the bike wouldn't die on me when i came to a stop.
thinking back about it, i think the oil burnt up, seeing as how hot the engine was getting at times.
and yes... after discovering it had no oil, we used the old oil i stored away during the oil change 2 weeks prior... bike still didn't start.
Quote from: Blueknyt on July 27, 2013, 07:01:46 PM
... ive seen engines survive stuff it shouldnt.
Off topic, but I have personally watched a Jeep with a 2.4L 4 cylinder not only start, but drive onto a trailer then subsequently off the trailer into a garage with a broken connecting rod, 2 broken piston skirts, a half-dollar coin sized hole in one side of the block, and a softball sized hole in the other side of the block.
:icon_eek:
Most of the engine was salvaged (not the block or the broken piston components, obviously), and with parts from a donor short-block the truck was back up and running in a weekend.
However, we had the knowledge, tools, manpower, and space to pull the engine, put it on a stand, tear it apart, check questionable parts, do the same with the donor engine, put it all together, and get it back in the truck.
Ok, do an oil change NOW. Check filter. Any metal shavings? If so, stop. Engine toast. If not, you may be lucky.
Next, sounds easy, but you need 3 things to get any engine to run. Fuel/air mixture, compression, spark. You have enough gas in the tank, right? Put your thumb over the plug holes. You should hear and feel a distinct pop when starting.
Check for spark. Easy.
Spray starting fluid in the carbs. If it runs and dies, you probably have a fuel problem.
If you went through 3 quarts of oil in 2 weeks and were not leaking it externally, I would think you would have seen smoke coming out of the exhaust. 3 quarter in 2 weeks is a lot