Just bought this bike off craigslist for $750 bucks. Not running
95 GS500E 7000 miles. Motorcycles are seasonal here so the miles are low. I have a old 82 with 20.000. Bike looks in very good condition.
So far i replaced the o-ring on the petcock connected to the tank. No more leak
I cleaned the carbs, so both are firing and working great.
Bike runs really good now and shifts great, but not charging.
Stator is not outputting the correct voltage AC 75volts. It's putting out even on all 3 wires, about AC 3 volts each.
Open side cover and motor looks really clean but wallah! Low and behold the epoxy on the magnets are off the rotor. One of the chunks was wedged in the cable bracket.
So my questions for the goat experts.
1 Did the epoxy flake off and cause the stator to not output the correct voltage AC? Get wedged in between the magnets and cause the output to be low? Stator tested good and appears fine.
2 To fix the major problem before the motor explodes due to magnet parts messing up the rest of the motor. I notice it's not easy to buy this part on E bay. Can i just put new Epoxy resin on the ends of the magnets. Maybe use denatured alcohol to clean the oil off prior to applying the new Epoxy?
3 The current stator tests positive and doesn't look burned. 1.2ohm between each wire on my cheapo meter. Not grounding on that test. Should I replace it anyways. I hate to buy another gasket and oil/filter.
4 Should I take off the oil pan to try and retrieve any more epoxy chunks?
Thx :)
The epoxy on the ends of the magnets often comes off. Its not what really holds them on. The epoxy between the magnet and the rotor (plus they're magnets) holds them on place.
If the magnets are intact, you're OK.
Are you sure you have your meter set correctly? AC scale? Good battery in the meter? Noting connected to the stator (i.e not plugged in to the regulator)? Checking voltage on any 2 of the 3 wires with the bike running at something like 2000 rpm?
Flakes of epoxy in the sump are no problem. There is a sump screen before the oil pump and the oil filter before oil goes anywhere.
Thanks for the response. I tested with another meter and got within .02ohm of my meter. The battery in my meter is 100%. I did notice the end of the stator, where it meets the magnets are kinda discolored in areas of the contacts. I wonder if that cheap epoxy flying off damaged the stator contacts. Anyway to prove that if the meter checks out okay? I took a photo. I'll share it.
Will the magnets eventually fly off at 10,000rpms? I'd hate to forget it. This motor is in really great shape.
Thx,
Sean
Quote from: musicmarley on July 29, 2013, 04:03:55 PM
Thanks for the response. I tested with another meter and got within .02ohm of my meter. The battery in my meter is 100%. I did notice the end of the stator, where it meets the magnets are kinda discolored in areas of the contacts. I wonder if that cheap epoxy flying off damaged the stator contacts. Anyway to prove that if the meter checks out okay? I took a photo. I'll share it.
Will the magnets eventually fly off at 10,000rpms? I'd hate to forget it. This motor is in really great shape.
Thx,
Sean
@ higher rpm the magnets are getting pushed into the drum due to centrifugal force. That means they wont come apart ... they come together.
The drum swells with rpm, but really nothing is there to hit it ... it can swell 1/2 inch before it hits the outside case ... that IMHO would be closer to 113,000,853 rpm. Approximately ...
Cool.
Buddha.
There are no contacts. magnets passing near a coil will generate electricity. The flakes of epoxy are not harmful. There are no contacts for them to interfere with. Epoxy is non metallic and non magnetic so it does nothing.
The stator is coils of wire on an iron frame. No contacts.
It is basic physics: pass a magnet by a coil and you get electricity. and the inverse: Pass a current through a coil and it becomes a magnet. You can't see it with a digital meter. If you have a mechanical meter, set it to a low DC voltage. Connect to a coil (like 2 wires of the stator) and wave a magnet around. You'll see the meter needle move. and that's how the stator generates electricity.
Here are the photos. I'll change the stator. Not gonna worry about the epoxy then.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/99554407@N07/
Thanks for the help guys. I'll let you know if it fixes it. Probably not till later this week, I need to order parts. ;)
Thx,
Sean
They all look OK really.
You have something else probably.
Cool.
Buddha.
So then what is the root cause of goats?
Thx,
Sean
I know this is gonna sound dumb but what is goats?
Sent from my iPad using a big stick
There's a big search function on the site, just use it, eh?
Quote from: noworries on July 29, 2013, 10:11:54 PM
There's a big search function on the site, just use it, eh?
Searching for goats will only pull up your goat threads. Not everybody has such an unusual attraction for goats.
Quote from: john on July 29, 2013, 10:36:57 PM
Quote from: noworries on July 29, 2013, 10:11:54 PM
There's a big search function on the site, just use it, eh?
Searching for goats will only pull up your goat threads. Not everybody has such an unusual attraction for goats.
Oh my god what an ass. Dont you think I already did that you piece of shaZam!? Nevermind
Gee I hate when people quote losers I have in my blocked list.
Temts me to say things I shouldnt :dunno_black:
noworries you grumpy old man, why dont you start acting your age and be helpful instead of trolling for abuse?
I'm still not clear what the root cause of goats's rotor exploding chunks in the motor. I honestly thought it was due to this epoxy coming off. Apparently not. 280$ for that rotor at the Suzuki shop.
Here is the oldest post I could find on a "goats" search within GStwin.com.... from 05'.
-----------------------------------------------------
OK at 40K suzuki says the valves and cams and pistons should be replaced. If a Zillion is closer to 10K, I guess I had close to 5 zillion miles on my GS ... I had 47K when I sold it ... Its definetly gotta be watched ... I had it since 8K and any problem was fixed before it got bad ... OK that starter clutch leading to goats sorta bit me in the ass ... but 4 oil changes in 300 miles was the price I paid after the fact ... Barring sudden death as in seize or valve piston meeting etc ... The GS is going to die one of 2 ways ... shims get thinner and thinner till there is no where else to get shims from ... or they get thicker and thicker till they dont have any thicker ... MIne went from 255-270 at 8K to 270-280 ... so 4 shim sizes in 40K ... and I have till 315 besides I also thought most of the wear was in the shim ... most 260 measured to be like 258 etc ... so I thought the shim was wearing more than anyhting in the bike ... so eventually somehting has to die ... So ... if its been well maintained mechanically (not cosmetically ... mine looked like a rat puked on it most of the time) ... and you continue that, and you show good mechanical sensitivity it should run a long time ...
Cool.
Srinath.
----------------------------------------------
What happen to the original goats posts? What happen to goats? Haha
Thx, :D
Sean
Quote from: musicmarley on July 30, 2013, 04:19:27 AM
I'm still not clear what the root cause of goats's rotor exploding chunks in the motor. I honestly thought it was due to this epoxy coming off. Apparently not. 280$ for that rotor at the Suzuki shop.
I have a theory.
3 times I have had the rotor come loose. The bolt worked loose. Symptoms were the rotor spinning when trying to start the bike, and the engine doesn't turn over because the rotor isn't bolted to the crank.
Now if this should suddenly happen when on a ride and really come loose, the rotor could wobble and the magnets could rub teh stator. There isn't much clearance between the stator and the rotor. As soon as things start to rub, all is over.
Another possibility is the stator coming loose though those are pretty hard to remove.
Third is damage due to an accident. Maybe the rotor striking the stator or other metal debris getting in that tight clearance between the stator and the magnets.
Possibly the rotor got dropped or struck during maintenance, causing a crack or fracture of a magnet that manifests itself later. Or even a washer or other parts dropped into the engine. Magnets will attract steel bits andthingies.
...and lastly, a magnet could just break from stress like excessive heat or mechanical failure.
I put the bike on a center stand. Put the bike in 6th gear. rotated the motor to check the roundness of the rotor.
Also The tension on the bolt holding the rotor on. Now that i look at the pics carefully from the past cases of goats, I notice the magnets intact. I'm curious to see pictures of other bikes with the same setup. Doesn't the Kawasaki 500EX have a similar setup?
Thx,
Sean
Suzuki ist Kaput! Seems related.
http://forum.gs-500.de/showthread.php?t=7711
Thx, :cookoo:
Sean
Quote from: musicmarley on July 30, 2013, 10:24:27 AM
I put the bike on a center stand. Put the bike in 6th gear. rotated the motor to check the roundness of the rotor.
Also The tension on the bolt holding the rotor on. Now that i look at the pics carefully from the past cases of goats, I notice the magnets intact. I'm curious to see pictures of other bikes with the same setup. Doesn't the Kawasaki 500EX have a similar setup?
The Ex500 gen 1 had the same type of magnet rotor. In the gen 2 models (1994+) they added an aluminum casing or shield over the magnets. It seems Kawasaki had more problems with it.
If Suzuki had lots of problems, they would have fixed it. There are very few cases of the magnets breaking or coming loose. Those that do happen, we don't know if it is an inherent design flaw, damage from an accident, over heating, debris or sloppy maintenance when the left side case was removed.
Sorry to bring this back up, but coda isn't the only one here scratching their head when the term "goats" is used.
When I search for "goats" on this site, all I find are a few results that all come from this thread. I don't even find the one that music posted! Can't explain it, maybe the search is buggy.
Besides, even though the search button is useful for finding info about a certain topic and not duplicating threads it doesn't define "goats", nor does the quote that was posted.
Not even Google knows, since a search for "goats, motorcycle" only leads to actual goats (the animal) and motorcycles...
If it's a slang term, it's either a very localized one or a bad one. A good slang term for a hydraulic lifter is a tappet. A good slang term for diagonal-cut pliers is dikes.
Even cultural differences, like calling the trunk of a car a boot, would be discoverable.
If it's a term people on this site use, then it's no help to newcomers and obviously even some vet members don't even know it.
Stop beating around the bush and just tell us what "goats" means. It won't wear your keyboard out any more than typing "Use the search function, that's what it's for...", it will certainly take less time than digging through quotes in threads long since expired, and it will save us all a lot of frustration, headache, and agitation.
{dwn_spbx}
i'm interested too, because the only widely used auto-related definition for goat that I know of is GTO (car)
Goats is when the magnets become dislodged from the rotor, get crushed up and sends tiny flakes and bits of magnet all through the engine. Engine = toast
Thank you kindly, good sir :thumb:
yup :thumb:
Don't feel bad ... people have been
[asking this question (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=13606.msg115340#msg115340)] for almost 9 years now.
goat's syndrome was named after GStwin user
goat, who was the first board member to describe the condition ... back in mid-2004.
[THIS POST (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=9836.msg85440#msg85440)] is where it all began. (It's unfortunate that the photos no longer display.... :cry:)
And
[THIS POST (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=10798.msg89441#msg89441)] is where
The Buddha (who went by
seshadri_srinath at the time) proposed the name for the condition.
Quote from: The Buddha on July 20, 2004, 07:55:18 PM[...] Shall we call it "goats syndrome" from now on. [...]
Wow goat only had I have a 93 gs with 6600 miles .
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=9836.0
I ordered that 2nd generation EX500 rotor used for $150 Ebay(Thanks Adidas). The only one left! Better then the stupid $280 epoxy one from the Suzuki dealership that will eventually crack off and possible destroy the motor. Don't feel like walkin >:(
Also going to upgrade the stator and R/R.
Thx,
Sean
Quote from: Kerry on July 30, 2013, 05:26:42 PM
Don't feel bad ... people have been [asking this question (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=13606.msg115340#msg115340)] for almost 9 years now. goat's syndrome was named after GStwin user goat, who was the first board member to describe the condition ... back in mid-2004.
[THIS POST (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=9836.msg85440#msg85440)] is where it all began. (It's unfortunate that the photos no longer display.... :cry:)
And [THIS POST (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=10798.msg89441#msg89441)] is where The Buddha (who went by seshadri_srinath at the time) proposed the name for the condition.
Quote from: The Buddha on July 20, 2004, 07:55:18 PM[...] Shall we call it "goats syndrome" from now on. [...]
Much appreciated Kerry,
Now how hard was that people
Have some Karma guys
Quote from: musicmarley on July 30, 2013, 06:18:13 PM
I ordered that 2nd generation EX500 rotor used for $150 Ebay(Thanks Adidas). The only one left! Better then the stupid $280 epoxy one from the Suzuki dealership that will eventually crack off and possible destroy the motor. Don't feel like walkin >:(
Also going to upgrade the stator and R/R.
I don't recall suggesting you buy a Kawasaki unit. I did mention what Kawa did for their gen-2 rotors to solve their problem which apparently was quite common compared to us.
Not sure what you're doing to upgrade the stator. We only have had one type.
Regulator can be upgraded with a MosFet one which I have done on many GS500's.
The problem with our rotors is really quite minor. Very few have had problems, which is probably why no design changes were ever made (compared to Kawasaki which was known for problems and why they changed it). The kawa Gen 2 rotor does not fit on an older EX500 without modifications. I have no idea if it fits on a GS500.
Their rotor was the same "type" meaning the same design of a rotor with magnets glued inside, not physically identical.
They changed the design for the Gen-2 EX500's. I have a 1992 EX500 and purchased a gen-2 rotor that was modified to fit the gen-1 bikes only because it was available and everyone on the EX-500 forums seem to say that is a necessary upgrade.
OEM and aftermarket are not the same with these stators and R/R's.
Not the same epoxy.. not the same construction. The windings are not the same.
They just hold up better from my experience with other bikes.
Electrosport
Rick.. etc
Okay to be clear the kawasaki one doesn't fit this bike?
You were just stating the other manufacture upgraded to another design. Looks like Honda's rotors.
Metal protecting the magnets. Not some crappy epoxy that flakes off in your engine. Duh
Thx,
Sean
I have not attempted to install a Kawasaki on a GS500. I do know that there are differences on the outside (bumps, stuff, ridges) that have to be ground off to fit a gen-2 into a gen-1 EX500. I have a modified gen-2 part on the shelf for my gen-1 EX-500. I do not have an opened up GS500 motor to see about compatibility. While I do have a spare GS500 rotor, just comparing the two side by side would not be the proper way to check fitment.
I don't think the end epoxy flaking off is an issue. I've observed that on every GS500 rotor I have seen. I have yet to encounter one with bad magnets.
Update, Bike it working perfectly now.
Okay thanks to this site I saved some money in the process of bringing this bike back to life.
Not a goat motor so far.. Knock on wood.
The stator and magnets were perfect. I even went as far as testing the stator with a scope. 1.2ohm, 1.2,1.2 all day. The rotor was perfect except for some epoxy chunks I removed.
I did get a reading of 3volts AC on each pole. I unplugged the R/R , the output from it and
the AC voltage jumped up to the correct 25-30volts AC. Strange I haven't seen a stator output
that when a crappy R/R was plugged into a bike. SO that's what was wrong with the charging system was the R/R. I learn something today :)
Thank you everyone for informing me about the epoxy on the magnets. Also for saying the charging parts I posted were fine.
Thx,
Sean