Hi everyone,
I'd like to share my headache of a problem. I picked up a used GS500f earlier this month.
Was running fine at first. Today, it died on me while I was at a gas station. The lights go on, but the electric start does nothing - no cranking.
Please read the history below to understand more because I've had had several prior electrical issues.
1. A 1.5V battery.
I left my bike for about 5 days a week ago. I turned the key ignition on and found the battery to be near dead. The light that came on was the engine oil light, but it was incredibly faint. Turn lights = no, electric start=no. Checked the battery and it was at 1.5volts. Figured it was a dead battery, but I tried to salvage by hooking up a 1.5a charger. I also noticed that there was a bunch of dirty residue on the surface of the battery (spilled acid?) and wiped it up. Immediately after charge, it was 13.3v, but rests at ~12.5v. But I was able to start my bike and it doesn't seem to discharge.
2. Sudden electric failure.
I rode the bike about 35 miles just fine. I let it sit another 4 days, I took it out for a spin and made it one block before it died while I was at a stop light. Completely dead - no lights whatsover. Thought my battery discharged again. Pushed it home. Saw a decent voltage, so I knew it wasn't discharged. I tightened the negative terminal bolt and it started up again! I blamed it on a loose terminal connection.
3. More failure and no electric start.
The next day (today), I decided to try using my bike, thinking the issue was only a loose battery terminal connection. Upon riding, I noticed that my speedometer and tachometer were not working at first. Then the speedometer started to work a little later, although not very responsive. Then riding some more (downhill), the speedometer and tachometer gained normal responsiveness. Bike was not running that smooth... I figured it was cause it didn't warm up enough.
I stopped at a gas station a mile away to fill air. When I put my key on the "ON" position and press the electric start, EVERYTHING DIES again, just like #2. I do tests. Not a loose battery terminal this time. Battery voltage is good. 20A fuse still intact. I eventually find out that wiggling my starter relay (the one housing the fuse) will turn the lights back on. So wiring might be an issue there. However, the electric start still doesn't work. When I put the key on the ON position, the relay clicks, but when I press the electric start, there is no click.
I also noticed that several times (but not all the time), when I was pressing buttons like the electric start or the high beam, my bike would die again and I would have to wiggle the ignition unit again to get lights.
I tried to get a jump from the guy (of course, his engine not on), but that didn't work... did help me recharge voltage on my bike though.
I also tried run-starting it, but no luck.
My theories
I can't be sure what the issue is, because I haven't had this sort of issue before... but I'm guessing it might be the ignition unit, or a diode is fried somewhere, or there is short somewhere from the ignition/battery to the electric start button.
***
So, I am essentially confused because I have seen multiple electrical issues that don't seem to be related, but probably are. I'm also confused because I was able to ride my bike 35 miles last week, yet it suddenly dies on me the next time.
Any help would be appreciated.
Quote from: tzzzel on July 30, 2013, 12:27:14 PMWhen I put the key on the ON position, the relay clicks, but when I press the electric start, there is no click.
If you are sure that the "click" is from the starter relay (and not from a blinker or something) then I would agree with the following possibility ...
Quote from: tzzzel on July 30, 2013, 12:27:14 PMshort somewhere from the ignition/battery to the electric start button.
... because the starter relay shouldn't click
until you press the starter button.
BTW - Welcome to
GStwin! :thumb:
Thanks for the welcome!
I took another look at it. Here are some more observations:
- There is no relay or electric start click. I thought there was a click near the relay, but when I went today, there was nothing. Maybe I was not hearing right last night. Also, there is still no click or there doesn't seem to be any electric draw when I press the starter.
- The battery is fine - voltage is 12+ and got it load tested at the nearby Chevron.
- Rectifier is fine - I did the resistance check and nothing was unusual.
- Starter motor... didn't have a chance to check this. I did not have the right socket, but it's plausible that this thing is fried.
- Fuse is not broken. One odd thing is that when I bought this bike, the fuse was replaced with a 12V 20A connector piece (see attachment). I did replace this connector with an actual fuse, back when I had 1.5V and thought my fuse was dead. Perhaps the previous owner kept frying fuses, so he put in this connector.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Really sounds like a short somewhere. Good chance if the PO kept frying fuses, it was a bad wire somewhere smacking the frame as he rode...then you have the same issue. Problem is, my guess, that bad wire is now wedged against the frame/motor/anything else, causing it to be a constant short. Since you get NOTHING from the ignition system, then it is most likely one of those lines. Electrical can be very tedious, but be patient and methodical. Either start up front or under the seat, and just take your time tracing and testing lines.
Quote from: Soloratov on July 30, 2013, 07:58:51 PM
Really sounds like a short somewhere. Good chance if the PO kept frying fuses, it was a bad wire somewhere smacking the frame as he rode...then you have the same issue. Problem is, my guess, that bad wire is now wedged against the frame/motor/anything else, causing it to be a constant short. Since you get NOTHING from the ignition system, then it is most likely one of those lines. Electrical can be very tedious, but be patient and methodical. Either start up front or under the seat, and just take your time tracing and testing lines.
Thank you... that does make a lot of sense of this
very fickle issue. I guess I will have to go in and perform this "electrical audit."
I'm pulling hairs because I owned an EX500 for 3 years and never had an electric issue. Meanwhile, I own this GS500F for 2 weeks and I already have an electrical issue that'll prevent me from riding. Sigh.
Thanks again, Soloratov.
Okay I'm no expert.
Try to look at the wires and see if any of them are or look out of place.
You'll have to take off some of the plastics to expose the wire harness.
Check the connectors for corrosion or anything that looks burnt.
If you have a simple volt meter, put it in a continuity test.. So it reads zero..
Then you can check to see if from one wire to the next wire reads zero.
I would start with that. Youtube has some decent videos on tracking down issues like yours.
I currently have my own GS issues sorting out. I just got a GS500 a few days ago;) This isn't my first bike though:)
Good Luck,
Sean
Here's an [Old Post (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=9304.msg76808#msg76808)] from the "bike won't start!!!" thread that might give you some ideas. (Lots of pics, etc.)
If you have already done these tests, please ignore me. :dunno_black:
Quote from: Kerry on July 30, 2013, 08:55:09 PM
Here's an [Old Post (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=9304.msg76808#msg76808)] from the "bike won't start!!!" thread that might give you some ideas. (Lots of pics, etc.)
If you have already done these tests, please ignore me. :dunno_black:
Kerry,
Thank you for that. I'm going to be looking for shorts, but I'm also not dismissing the possibility of a bad relay or starter motor. Thank you for saving me some time.
Quick question: could you hotwire a GS500f by creating a circuit using a screwdriver between those 2 relay terminals? Or do you need to have the ignition key position ON first? And furthermore, does creating an alternative circuit using a screwdriver bypass the other, possibly shorted wires I have?
Quote from: tzzzel on July 30, 2013, 09:09:35 PMQuick question: could you hotwire a GS500f by creating a circuit using a screwdriver between those 2 relay terminals? Or do you need to have the ignition key position ON first? And furthermore, does creating an alternative circuit using a screwdriver bypass the other, possibly shorted wires I have?
The "screwdriver short" will only cause the starter motor to turn over; it won't energize the coils or other ignition-related stuff. So yes, you still need to turn the key to ON to get the bike to run "on its own".
Here is what the starter motor circuit looks like (from a '97 wiring diagram):
(http://bbburma.net/Scans/Haynes_Wiring_Fuse_StarterRelay_StarterMotor.jpg)
The "screwdriver short" bypasses everything but the cable running from the battery to the starter relay (the lower red line). The screwdriver essentially connects the two white circles above and below the dashed line. Is that what you're asking?
If at all possible too, use the wire diagram of the bike to figure out where all your "ignition/running" electrical starts and ends. IMPORTANT: TEST AS MUCH AS YOU CAN, WITHOUT MOVING ANY WIRES.
You know right now things are shorted/crossed/not right. If you move wires around, you might "fix" the problem and never find it. If it's a frayed or crossed wire and you move it, the problem could disappear. So use the continuity test along a single wire at a time, one probe at one end, the other probe at the other end. You can do this pretty quick with the diagram. Test both ends of the wire, and...AND, for each wire, touch the motor/bare frame bolt/etc. If it beeps between wire ends, good. Beeps between wire and frame, bad. (Except if it's a ground wire, in which case it doesn't matter)
BIG MAHALO TO THE BOARD MEMBERS, ESPECIALLY KERRY :D.
Kerry, I took your advice and read that old 2004 post you pointed to.
I made a new circuit via screwdriver with the ignition relay. Heard my bike crank. Thus, I knew that the starter motor was fine.
The engine didn't turn over though, which puzzled me. I was 98% sure that there couldn't be a parallel issue (e.g. bad spark plugs, clogged air filter), so I stuck with the thought that wire was disconnected or loose or shorted between the relay and electric start button.
Took off the lower fairing, pushed some wires out of the way... tried to see if bare wire was hitting frame... did not see any glaring issues. However, I tried the electric start and... it started! Rode it home and it was riding smoothly (better than before), despite sitting for almost 3 days.
The unsettling thing is that I wasn't sure where the fault was exactly, but now that my bike is home (it was about 4 blocks from where I live, but it would be 50% uphill), I'll be able to use all my tools to investigate further.
***
On a personal note, I actually bought this GS500f because I can't quite figure out the issues with my other bike, a Vento Colt 250 with no forums out there and no official service manual. Really destroyed my morale not being able to fix it. And then I bought this GS500f and it suddenly stopped working. So, I'm grateful for all your help. I really needed a boost in my mechanic morale. :cheers:
-RON
Quote from: tzzzel on August 01, 2013, 07:05:06 PM[...]it started! Rode it home and it was riding smoothly (better than before), despite sitting for almost 3 days.
Yee-Haw! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: