Hi everyone,
This is going to be pretty confusing. If you can help, I would appreciate you reading everything I'm about to write. But to sum things up: I have a 2004 GS500f that died on me today (electrically). I was only able to get it back by pulling out my fuse several times and inserting it back in. My fuse is not a typical auto fuse. Don't know why. Also, starting up my bike, I've noticed rough riding (not attributable to cold engine) and a bit of knocking noise or clicking noise. I can try to record if this doesn't make sense to you.
The background
I've had electrical issues before with my bike dying out and I had a thread on this forum. It was a mystery at first, but then I realized I left my bike on P, which turns the tail on and kills the battery voltage. Subsequently the bike died on me, but that's a completely different issue and it's because I changed the fuse (I thought it was a dead fuse) and the fuse I changed it with... wasn't long enough?
My peculiar fuse situation
The fuse the bike came with had long blades and it didn't look like a fuse. It was written with 12V 20A, so it fit specifications. Oddly enough, it goes in where the spare should be (on the outside). When I changed it with a 20A automotive fuse I found at Kmart, then I started have problems with the bike just dying on me, once at a red light when I tried to accelerate, once at a gas station when I dropped it into 1st, another time when I started it up and was getting ready to ride.
Then I put in the long fuse, and it would run okay. My thoughts are that the auto fuse I bought is not the right size - I need a maxi, it seems. Cause the fuses didn't blow when my bike died, I'm guessing the bike died because the fuse blades weren't in position enough to carry the full current of a bike acceleration or they are shifted around during movement.
Symptoms - rough riding
So I've noticed that I have some rough riding. When I first ride out of my driveway in 1st, it feels rough. It's not a cold carb issue, but it's like not enough current gets to the system, so I feel it jerky - riding on low rpms in 1st, I will feel it slow and quicken, while holding the throttle and clutch still. No idea what's causing this. All I know is that when I accelerate and run on higher gears, it's fine.
What happened today - bike died
So I thought I figured everything out. In fact, I even rode my bike all day yesterday to run errands. Still had rough riding on low speed/RPMs, but it was not dying. Well, I'm about to leave this morning and I make it about 2-3 blocks from home when it just dies on me - electric system doesn't work. I pull out the long fuse and push it back in - doesn't work - no lights. So I figure the long fuse is dead.
Btw, the long fuse is HOT AS HECK when I pull it out, which doesn't seem to make sense, as I've only been riding for 3 minutes.
I put in my auto fuse just to check (I thought maybe my long fuse died). The lights come on, but as I mentioned before, this little auto fuse is big enough to hold current properly and I can't ride away. So I'm stumped.
Then I put in the long fuse again. It works. Lights on. It starts. I ride back home and cancel my meeting because I'm not sure what's wrong. But the long fuse is obviously not blown. But for some reason, it didn't help me earlier.
***
Help would be appreciated.
Sorry, this is so confusing. I just don't know what's happening here. Possibilities could be faulty regulator, abnormal voltage draw from something, maybe I need to replace my starter relay.
Attached are pictures of my long fuse, the automotive fuse that doesn't really fit, long fuse in the starter relay, and the starter relay without the long fuse in it.
[attachment deleted by admin]
What model of bike, what year?
That is not a normal GS500 starter relay setup.
If it is a GS500, any history on what was done to it?
A poor connection will get hot due to possible arcing and/or current going through a narrow connection.
I've updated the original post.
It's a 2004 GS500f.
No idea what's been done to it.
But the fuse obviously isn't stock. There's also an HID kit to replace the regular light (so I have brights or HID).
Volt meter and the wiring diagram will be your best friends.
Consider looking at what was done and see if you can put the stock starter relay/fuse assembly back in. That would be the first thing I do - knowing the fuse does not make a good connection and is not a common nor stock fuse.
Quote from: adidasguy on August 07, 2013, 02:27:42 PM
Volt meter and the wiring diagram will be your best friends.
Consider looking at what was done and see if you can put the stock starter relay/fuse assembly back in. That would be the first thing I do - knowing the fuse does not make a good connection and is not a common nor stock fuse.
Hm... that's probably the best thing to do. Because looking at it again, my fuse is the right size (autofuse), so a maxi fuse probably wouldn't fit. And I guess it wouldn't hurt to just buy the unit on ebay - it's like $15-20.
Thanks.
Here's an update after doing some more research:
If my long fuse is hot, doesn't that mean that there's high resistance at the point where the long fuse meets the starter relay? And that would mean that my motorcycle wouldn't run well because the other parts would not be getting good enough voltage, since it's getting bottlenecked at the starter relay. And since the starter relay is the first thing in line of the positive battery terminal, that means the starter relay should be the issue. I'm thinking the blades aren't laid out in a way that allows for current to pass through easily or wiring might be corroded somewhere. Also, it can't be a short, because if I was getting a short, then my fuse would've blown. But it's not blown - the bike turns off and the fuse is fine.
Am I onto something here?
i think people are missing the point here, need to break this down to 3 issues
1 peculiar fuse ( for what reason was changed, easy to work out by seeing what it is feeding and the point of the jointing to existing circuit)
2 the fuse getting hot ( yes a over drain on the capacity of the fuse, volt meter will easily find the problem, i would say loose connection. continuity test. cant say if the replaced part is without fault)
3 knock noise ( so this is a mechanical knocking noise only when in 1st gear??) is this a constant noise or just when you first twist the throttle?
I wanted to add my original thought about the 'rough riding' in first/low rpm... If I had not read anything else in the thread regarding fuses and what not, I would be inclined think the roughness would be coming from a loose chain. But given other information :dunno_black:
... as cally was suggesting, perhaps you should look at them as separate issues. At the very least, all of it won't seem overwhelming, and it will help with a systematic approach... which is what you want to do when you don't know exactly what you are looking at.
:cheers:
- Bboy
yes i was thinking chain whip from loose chain or broken tooth etc
FYI: Hot fuses
Fuses do get hot. That's how they work.
A fuse has a small amount of resistance. It heats up the metal in it. Too much current = gets really hot = melts the piece of metal.
Any true fuse works that way. Circuit breakers also depend on heat, but there heat causes a trip to bend or release and then the switch opens up (waiting for you to reset it.)
Look at a blown fuse. You'll notice the ends of the break are melted.
Quote from: adidasguy on August 08, 2013, 09:56:46 AM
FYI: Hot fuses
Fuses do get hot. That's how they work.
A fuse has a small amount of resistance. It heats up the metal in it. Too much current = gets really hot = melts the piece of metal.
Any true fuse works that way. Circuit breakers also depend on heat, but there heat causes a trip to bend or release and then the switch opens up (waiting for you to reset it.)
Look at a blown fuse. You'll notice the ends of the break are melted.
Your response has lead me to understanding my "long fuse."
I realized that it's not a fuse - it's a circuit breaker!When you said "circuit breaker," it made total sense: yesterday when my bike stopped, it wasn't because my long fuse was blown, it's because the long fuse was overheated. That's why my bike worked after I waited about 10 minutes for the long fuse to cool down. And it's also because that long fuse isn't a long fuse - it's a circuit breaker! I searched for "circuit breaker gs500f" and came upon this page http://www.jpcycles.com/2010-suzuki-gs500f/drag-specialties/fuses (http://www.jpcycles.com/2010-suzuki-gs500f/drag-specialties/fuses). This thing looks exactly like what I have now in place of my fuse.
My fuses don't work that well because the circuit breaker has messed up the connectorsWhen I first took out that circuit breaker, I had to really pull it out - I totally had to use a screw driver too. Those circuit breaker blades are bigger than fuse blades and probably widened the connectors to a point where the fuse can't create a proper circuit. Looks like I'll definitely be ordering a new starter relay if I want to use fuses again.
The knocking noiseThe knocking noise is more like a click noise. I can't really describe it. I'll have to take it for a ride and record. But it's likely related to this issue at hand, because it disappears at high speeds.
Quote from: tzzzel on August 08, 2013, 12:16:16 PM
Quote from: adidasguy on August 08, 2013, 09:56:46 AM
FYI: Hot fuses
Fuses do get hot. That's how they work.
A fuse has a small amount of resistance. It heats up the metal in it. Too much current = gets really hot = melts the piece of metal.
Any true fuse works that way. Circuit breakers also depend on heat, but there heat causes a trip to bend or release and then the switch opens up (waiting for you to reset it.)
Look at a blown fuse. You'll notice the ends of the break are melted.
Your response has lead me to understanding my "long fuse."
I realized that it's not a fuse - it's a circuit breaker!
When you said "circuit breaker," it made total sense: yesterday when my bike stopped, it wasn't because my long fuse was blown, it's because the long fuse was overheated. That's why my bike worked after I waited about 10 minutes for the long fuse to cool down. And it's also because that long fuse isn't a long fuse - it's a circuit breaker! I searched for "circuit breaker gs500f" and came upon this page http://www.jpcycles.com/2010-suzuki-gs500f/drag-specialties/fuses (http://www.jpcycles.com/2010-suzuki-gs500f/drag-specialties/fuses). This thing looks exactly like what I have now in place of my fuse.
My fuses don't work that well because the circuit breaker has messed up the connectors
When I first took out that circuit breaker, I had to really pull it out - I totally had to use a screw driver too. Those circuit breaker blades are bigger than fuse blades and probably widened the connectors to a point where the fuse can't create a proper circuit. Looks like I'll definitely be ordering a new starter relay if I want to use fuses again.
The knocking noise
The knocking noise is more like a click noise. I can't really describe it. I'll have to take it for a ride and record. But it's likely related to this issue at hand, because it disappears at high speeds.
yes of course wire heats up due to current drain, however as his is aftermarket there is no saying that it is heating to the right point. if its chinese then it may never blow as they often inferior and non certed. a certed 15amp may blow at 17.5 is but a chinese uncerted could blow at anything or not blow at all. this is what i was referring to but guess some "experts" love people thinking they are
I had a new 03 from new to 07, the only problem I aver had with it was caused by the fuse holder/contacts corroding, arching and eventually simply dying. Once I realised this it was a simple job to replace the fuse holder, fit fuse and smother with Vaseline or similar grease. That bike is still running around today with no further electrical issues.