I resently put a 17 tooth front sprocket on my 2008 GS500F. I have to say I am very pleased with how it works. I didn't loose any take off, I can still make it get down the road if I need to and it rides much smoother than before. The gears are a bit taller and I still have to use all 6 gears on the highway. I did get brave one day and tried to top end it. I ran 105mph in 5th gear at 8500rpm. I didn't go any faster because I ran out of straight away and nerve. I thought something was up with the speedometer because I've read on this forum that they are all off so I asked my wife to clock me at a 45mph pace and my speedo was right on. The one thing I've learnened is that the tires that come stock on a GS are not made for high speed. I get a shutter over 95mph. Is it the tires or something else? Either way I'd have to say the 17 tooth sprocket was the best $30 I've spent on my bike. Thanks for your time.
What are your revs at 65~70mph?
Around 95 mph, it could be any number of things - because at that speed everything needs to be almost perfect. It could be the tires (out of balance, bead slightly off, tread pattern on the road surface, etc), slightly worn / dry bearings somewhere, rear wheel not aligned, so on and so forth. Heck, your body position can catch wind the wrong way and make the bike act up.
"I've read on this forum that they are all off so I asked my wife to clock me at a 45mph pace and my speedo was right on."
Huh? Scientific? What did your wife do...run alongside?
How come every other gs500 has 8% to 10 % error, and yours is spot on?
Sounds to me like you managed to turn a 6 speed bike into a 5 speed bike!
Then again...that's just me...just sayin"
Cookie
Quote from: ron freeman on August 30, 2013, 05:51:36 PM
I resently put a 17 tooth front sprocket on my 2008 GS500F. I have to say I am very pleased with how it works. I didn't loose any take off, I can still make it get down the road if I need to and it rides much smoother than before. The gears are a bit taller and I still have to use all 6 gears on the highway. I did get brave one day and tried to top end it. I ran 105mph in 5th gear at 8500rpm. I didn't go any faster because I ran out of straight away and nerve. I thought something was up with the speedometer because I've read on this forum that they are all off so I asked my wife to clock me at a 45mph pace and my speedo was right on. The one thing I've learnened is that the tires that come stock on a GS are not made for high speed. I get a shutter over 95mph. Is it the tires or something else? Either way I'd have to say the 17 tooth sprocket was the best $30 I've spent on my bike. Thanks for your time.
If it was wife in car or other vehicle ... That speedo could be off also ...
It still has 6 gears though ... I don't get that into a 5 speed idea.... :dunno_black:
He only tested to 105 indicated in 5th........why didn't he go to 6th?
I doubt he is ever going to cruise anywhere, anywhere near at 105....so now 6th gear becomes unnecessary.....
hence a 5 speed gs500........
Part of my work is calibrating aircraft instruments......I have never calibrated any aircraft instruments by having my wife go along. We have (slightly) more scientific methods!
If somebody is going to tell me that changing one tooth makes such a huge difference...they better come up with some real evidence..
Just sayin"
Cookie
Quote from: Janx101 on August 31, 2013, 02:48:12 AM
If it was wife in car or other vehicle ... That speedo could be off also ...
It still has 6 gears though ... I don't get that into a 5 speed idea.... :dunno_black:
I don't know about a huge difference, but per the all-knowing wiki (I love wiki's - I miss working on that project at work) there should be about a 5.88% drop in RPMs
http://wiki.gstwins.com/index.php?n=Upgrades.Sprocket (http://wiki.gstwins.com/index.php?n=Upgrades.Sprocket)
Ahh ok ... I missed the 105 in 5th bit ....
But same in my bike at the moment with stock sprockets ... I can get more indicated road speed in 5th with higher rpms ... The engine hasn't got enough grunt to maintain that speed in 6th with my weight etc ... So it could also therefore be called a 5 speed bike? ..
However... For cruising the freeway at sustained speed .. Lower rpms in 6th and changed sprockets still has potential to save fuel .... And in the twisties ... For me anyway .. I don't get up into 5th often.. 6th hardly ever .... So if I changed to a 17/37 say ... And then only used 3rd mostly and 4th sometimes in the twisties ... Would I make it a 4 speed bike? ... No .... Sure the final ratio has changed ... And the speed vs change points a little too ... But at some point all the gears still get used...
You want scientific testing ... But you can claim he changed it effectively to a 5 speed bike? ... Without testing .... That doesn't fly bro?! :dunno_black:
But that drop only matters in 6th gear....where it really doesn't matter.......
Well also in first gear, where it does matter, to the negative..
Cookie
Quote from: 0Bw4n on August 31, 2013, 04:12:40 AM
I don't know about a huge difference, but per the all-knowing wiki (I love wiki's - I miss working on that project at work) there should be about a 5.88% drop in RPMs
http://wiki.gstwins.com/index.php?n=Upgrades.Sprocket (http://wiki.gstwins.com/index.php?n=Upgrades.Sprocket)
As you say below...you do not often even use 6th gear......it is sort of an overdrive
So ....
Going to a higher 6th gear, make this gear even less useful.....maybe makes 5th questionable...
You also mention that top speed may be faster in 5th than in 6th....I would imagine this is true....
(once you hit the aerodynamic drag "wall"....you can't get enough RPM in 6th to generate full Horsepower.....
So making a 6 speed bike...where top gear is not used makes a 5 speed bike in my book.......
But just take a step back and look at the big picture here...
The stock gearing is spot on!
Cookie
Quote from: Janx101 on August 31, 2013, 04:27:41 AM
Ahh ok ... I missed the 105 in 5th bit ....
But same in my bike at the moment with stock sprockets ... I can get more indicated road speed in 5th with higher rpms ... The engine hasn't got enough grunt to maintain that speed in 6th with my weight etc ... So it could also therefore be called a 5 speed bike? ..
However... For cruising the freeway at sustained speed .. Lower rpms in 6th and changed sprockets still has potential to save fuel .... And in the twisties ... For me anyway .. I don't get up into 5th often.. 6th hardly ever .... So if I changed to a 17/37 say ... And then only used 3rd mostly and 4th sometimes in the twisties ... Would I make it a 4 speed bike? ... No .... Sure the final ratio has changed ... And the speed vs change points a little too ... But at some point all the gears still get used...
You want scientific testing ... But you can claim he changed it effectively to a 5 speed bike? ... Without testing .... That doesn't fly bro?! :dunno_black:
Hold the logic....
Who says anyone is going to ride anywhere at 100mph? What ever happened to cruising along at 75 indicated? So at 75 the revs are around 6k stock. Whack on a 17 tooth front and they'll be what, 5,500 instead. How does that make 6th useless? Sure 6th might not have the Punch it used to (if it had any at all), but all that's happening is a Slight lowering of rpm in a given gear for a given speed.
Lambaste the man for his unscientific way of judging his speedo accuracy, but don't tell him 6th no longer is usable when it clearly is still usable.
At 65mph I am taching 5000rpm. I pick-up 10mph for every 500rpm in 6th gear.
I know using my wife's car to calibrate my speedo isn't exactly scientific but she drives a 2012 VW Jetta so I trust the Germans know how to calibrate a speedo.
I didn't change to 6th gear because I ran out of straight away and it's never smart to drive beyond your abilities.
Here in North Carolina, USA if you can't run 90mph on I-95 you best stay off the highway. And to be honest I like knowing what my bike can do even if it's not how I normally drive.
Thanks guys this forum is pretty cool.
No I didn't say I hardly ever use 6th at all .... In twistie 'fun' roads I don't for sure.. I can't get enough moxy going to attack a twistie road in a suitable rev range in 6th.. waaaaay to quick!.. But out on the flat country I click into top all the time ... Let it just purr along ... On other roads and in general ... I like to use ALL the rev range and ALL the gears as much as possible!
And I have heard the theory that sprocket changes only really affect 1st and 6th .... :icon_rolleyes: ... so is there some kind of warp field in the box that leaves 2-5 untouched by sprocket ratios? ... Sprocket changes HAVE to affect the whole box ... The rpms vs road speed of every gear change ...
You want to affect only 1st and 6th then crack the box open and change THOSE cogs ...
As always each to their own .... People want to mod the bike to wherever .. then as you quoted several posts ago .. 'Have at it' .... An almost OCD-like focus on stock stock stock STOCK!!! is ok too ... So we can assume you have a completely OEM bike which one day could be considered classic or something possibly... Sweet!!! :thumb:
A 17T is what I used to get 69.8 Mpg, with Plus Juan jetting, stock pipe & air box. I spent allot of time on the open road and virtually no in town riding with that combination, so it worked well for me.
But in his test" he only went to 5 th gear....
He gave not one "objective" reason to change the gearing from stock.....
Any test results must contain data from stock gearing...then a test with he new gearing under the exact same conditions.........
Saying that is "feels better" is subjective...but unfortunately not objective....
Really the original post was full of bull and no substance.........
Cookie
Quote from: mister on August 31, 2013, 11:34:39 AM
Hold the logic....
Who says anyone is going to ride anywhere at 100mph? What ever happened to cruising along at 75 indicated? So at 75 the revs are around 6k stock. Whack on a 17 tooth front and they'll be what, 5,500 instead. How does that make 6th useless? Sure 6th might not have the Punch it used to (if it had any at all), but all that's happening is a Slight lowering of rpm in a given gear for a given speed.
Lambaste the man for his unscientific way of judging his speedo accuracy, but don't tell him 6th no longer is usable when it clearly is still usable.
Mmmmm, very interesting, I found Ron's first post to be both interesting and informative. I also went back and read it again after reading the rest of the posts and searched but couldn't find the bull. :dunno_black: Ron likes his 17T front sprocket and so do Janx and Steve so why shouldn't they express their opinions on them?
Personally I like the standard Suzuki gearing for my 02 GS and only have changed it to a 15T briefly a couple times to correct for larger rear tires bringing my engine speeds back close to standard. I used a 15T front on my previous 97 GS with the 2 circuit carbs thru the mountain years and most of it's 80k miles and it felt right to me then too.
So Ron wanted to test his top speed with the 17T sprocket but backed off at 105 mph in 5th when he ran out of straight and didn't want to go any faster, his bike was showing some instability at at 95 mph. I'd of backed off at 95 myself. I did take my 97 GS up to 110 mph with 235# me and a big Plexi 2 shield on board in the mountains of upstate NY. Was chasing down a couple of riders who went out ahead of the group to play and found a bit of straight to make up some time but by 110 mph indicated I was braking hard for the next turn. Had the Z4/Z2 radial tire combo and the 15T sprocket on the GS then and it was smooth and steady all the way.
Gotta wonder how many have actually hit a hundred on their GSs, a big number but a very small percentage I suspect, if they also have 175,000 GS500 miles under their belts I'll even listen to their opinions of my right to express my opinions about my bike with a smile on my face. :icon_lol:
I might be the odd man out here, or maybe it's just that I'm a bigger rider than most, but taller gearing is the last thing I'd want with my GS. With my 240# self and 140 rear tire, 6th gear is as tall as I'd ever want to go. I don't think the bike would have enough power at highway speeds with taller gearing. I might even switch to a 15T when I buy a new chain and sprockets over the winter.
The fuel economy battle is getting out of hand. The same thing goes for my car as well. The highway MPG war has caused manufactures to put ridiculously low top gear ratios to the point where it's affected the drivability of the car. With all new cars, the top two gears (with most 6 speeds) are strictly economy gears, and you're constantly forced to downshift on the highway or while going up slight grades. I'd personally trade a fraction of a MPG for a couple more hundred RPM's in top gear. My poor little Suzuki SX4 crossover has to run just over 2000rpm in 6th gear at 100kmh. Even with an ECU remap it has no chance of climbing any sort of grade in 6th and I'm constantly having to downshift to 5th or even 4th. All so they can claim an extra 1/8th MPG on the window sticker.
Quote from: twocool on August 31, 2013, 06:43:12 PM
But in his test" he only went to 5 th gear....
Doesn't make any difference if he went to 5th or 6th or never got out of 4th because all gears will be equally affected by a change in final drive. His bike runs to 105 indicated at 8500 RPM in 5th, significantly lower RPMs than he'd get at that speed with stock gearing. It then follows that 6th should also be geared taller by the same margin as 5th and all other gears, so he got exactly what he wanted - a bike with more relaxed gearing.
Secondly, his method for checking speedo error is not nearly as ridiculous as you make it sound. It falls short in that he doesn't know much error there is in the Jetta's speedo itself. But if you had a car with known accuracy and that car paced you, then you could make that method work quite alright.
Quote from: gsJack on August 31, 2013, 08:42:43 PM
Gotta wonder how many have actually hit a hundred on their GSs, a big number but a very small percentage I suspect, if they also have 175,000 GS500 miles under their belts I'll even listen to their opinions of my right to express my opinions about my bike with a smile on my face. :icon_lol:
Actually hit an indicated 100, or ACTUALLY hit 100? I have never had a motorcycle with more optimistic speedo than my GS-F. It's ridiculous, mine over-reads by over 10%. On the highway I have to hit an indicated 90 to go an actual 80-ish.
I don't think the bike is unstable so much as having a seating position that is less than ideal for those speeds. You are perched upright on the thing acting like a big sail and very prone to helmet buffeting. Tucking under the fairing helps a lot.
Ok....Here's the bull...item by item....
Bull:
"I didn't loose anything on take off"
Fact:...higher starting gear MUST make slower take off.
Bull: I ran 105mph in 5th gear at 8500rpm. I didn't go any faster because I ran out of straight away and nerve.
Fact: a test of top end with higher gearing should be made it top gear, right? And test not aborted.
Bull: "my speedo was right on"
Fact: The gs500 speedo is about 10% optimistic
More bull:
There was no "base line testing" done so we are comparing the new gearing to what?
So based on this test report...who is going to switch to taller gearing?
Cookie
Quote from: ron freeman on August 30, 2013, 05:51:36 PM
I resently put a 17 tooth front sprocket on my 2008 GS500F. I have to say I am very pleased with how it works. I didn't loose any take off, I can still make it get down the road if I need to and it rides much smoother than before. The gears are a bit taller and I still have to use all 6 gears on the highway. I did get brave one day and tried to top end it. I ran 105mph in 5th gear at 8500rpm. I didn't go any faster because I ran out of straight away and nerve. I thought something was up with the speedometer because I've read on this forum that they are all off so I asked my wife to clock me at a 45mph pace and my speedo was right on. The one thing I've learnened is that the tires that come stock on a GS are not made for high speed. I get a shutter over 95mph. Is it the tires or something else? Either way I'd have to say the 17 tooth sprocket was the best $30 I've spent on my bike. Thanks for your time.
Do you somehow get offended by anyone who makes a change to their bike and likes it? I can't find any fault in someone posting about a change they made so that others can have another opinion for reference. Just because you may not like the change, doesn't make their opinion of it invalid. When I posted about my 18T change, I provided a relatively objective riding view, AND hard data numbers based on digital speed tests, and you still tried to tear it down. What exactly are you looking for? A lot of things are subjective, and can't be expressed in some perfect lab experiment way...sometimes, just sometimes, someone changes something and likes it purely because it suits them.
Since I never carry a passenger I will try a 17 tooth front sprocket when I replace the drive chain. Having ridden much smaller displacement bikes down to 125 CC, I see no problem with 5.88% lower revs. Went from a 4.11 to a 3.08 on a 59 Vette I owned decades ago and I loved the difference. I ride easy and that small percentage lower revs is not much. Most bikes are geared for two up. I can see how a rider that weighs more than my 200# would not want the change, but for me it will be at least worth a try. I had the front sprocket changed on my 2013 Ninja 300, but later sold the bike and got my first GS500E. 2000 miles on the GS since June. The gearing is nice stock, but as I posted I ride alone.
First gear launch with 5.88% 17/16th taller gearing won't be much difference, a trade off between slightly more acceleration and slightly higher gear change points.
I to don't see the big deal, I like the stock gearing, but I also like to fiddle with things to make them more suitable to my riding style.
If you can max your speed in top gear then you are good for drag racing. To me a road bike should top out in 5th gear. My 76 Z car would do 30-60-90-120-150 in it's 5 gears. No way it would got 150, but at reeasonable speeds it would average 28 MPG. It was geared even taller when I first put in the 5 speed with the 3.54 rear axle. I replaced it with a 3.90 (10% difference) which worked better with the .75 overdrive 5th. No 5 speed was offered from the factory until 1977 models so my 76 was a 4 speed. 5 speeds and 4 speeds had the same ratios for the first 4 gears.
regards
Mech
GS should hit over 100 mph in 4th gear too since it hits redline at over 100 mph in 4th, both 6th and 5th are overdrive ratios. Wouldn't redline in 6th until 140 mph if it had HP to pull it. Very big gap between HP peak and redline leaving a lot of room for the modifiers to play with. I like them stock myself.
(http://www.gs500.net/gallery/data/500/GS500gearing-rpms.jpg)
I generally find the wind starts to really make things rough right around 90-95. Without at least a small windshield you get knocked around quite a bit...even at 75-80 on a sustained highway ride to work, it gets hairy around big trucks being so light. All part of the fun.
Quote from: Mauricio on September 01, 2013, 01:03:02 AM..........................I don't think the bike is unstable so much as having a seating position that is less than ideal for those speeds. You are perched upright on the thing acting like a big sail and very prone to helmet buffeting. Tucking under the fairing helps a lot.
Not with a big sail like Plexi 2 shield on it, no tucking, no buffeting, and not too practical either. :icon_lol: :icon_lol:
http://www.gs500.net/gallery/data/500/02GS500wPlexi2.jpg
I put a smaller Spitfire shield on later that same month for the trip to the Smoky Mtns and have been switching them summer and winter ever since. Hard to beat that big Plexi 2 here in NE OH in January!
Quote from: gsJack on September 01, 2013, 07:02:22 AM
Quote from: Mauricio on September 01, 2013, 01:03:02 AM..........................I don't think the bike is unstable so much as having a seating position that is less than ideal for those speeds. You are perched upright on the thing acting like a big sail and very prone to helmet buffeting. Tucking under the fairing helps a lot.
Not with a big sail like Plexi 2 shield on it, no tucking, no buffeting, and not too practical either. :icon_lol: :icon_lol:
http://www.gs500.net/gallery/data/500/02GS500wPlexi2.jpg
Nice!
Last year of the good ones too (the bike).
All I was trying to do with my original post was to say, Hey I put on 17T front sprocket and really like it. It wasn't an experiment or a scientific test, it was simply a personal review. You can tear it down and cross examine every line of my post if you like. But I like it. The 17T front sprocket makes the bike vibrate less, I can actually use my rear view mirrors at highway speeds and if I get better gas milage, great. I bought a product, had a positive experience, that's it. Thank you for the support and the cross examination. All is welcome, especially any ideas you have to make the GS a better bike.
did appreciate the original message Ron .. and FWIW .. when i do a sprocket and chain soon... im aiming for a 17/37 most likely....
i expect i'll still be able to ride .. i use all of the gearbox and rpms at different times ... in different ways ... im adaptable like that!! ;) :thumb:
I do have a question Janx. What do think would happen if I added a 41T rear sprocket. Could the engine pull it or would it kill the motor and make "getting out of the way" impossible? Just a thought and set in stone?.
What gear ratios do you have?
Cookie
Quote from: Soloratov on September 01, 2013, 05:41:16 AM
Do you somehow get offended by anyone who makes a change to their bike and likes it? I can't find any fault in someone posting about a change they made so that others can have another opinion for reference. Just because you may not like the change, doesn't make their opinion of it invalid. When I posted about my 18T change, I provided a relatively objective riding view, AND hard data numbers based on digital speed tests, and you still tried to tear it down. What exactly are you looking for? A lot of things are subjective, and can't be expressed in some perfect lab experiment way...sometimes, just sometimes, someone changes something and likes it purely because it suits them.
The transmission is all stock. 17t front gear and currently running stock 39T.
You get your gear ratio by dividing the tooth sizes.
39 rear / 17 front = about 2.29 gear ratio.
The higher the ratio, the more rpm's you'll be running at any given speed. With Janx's 17/37 combo, his highway / cruising rpm will be even lower than yours.
"high Gears" mean less RPM...not more........
such as "first gear is lower than second gear"
Using this convention you would then figure ratio by using formula front/rear
Yeah its all the same thing...but using simple convention makes simple math...
Cookie
Quote from: Big Rich on September 01, 2013, 05:30:59 PM
You get your gear ratio by dividing the tooth sizes.
39 rear / 17 front = about 2.29 gear ratio.
The higher the ratio, the more rpm's you'll be running at any given speed. With Janx's 17/37 combo, his highway / cruising rpm will be even lower than yours.
So...what exactly does you bike offer, that mine (stock) does not?
Cookie
Quote from: ron freeman on September 01, 2013, 05:16:54 PM
The transmission is all stock. 17t front gear and currently running stock 39T.
Things like gearing CAN be easily expressed in lab type, engineering objective terms....I mean gearing is pure physics......
Things like seat shape, handlebar type and position, and favorite color for you bike are subjective...
Cookie
Quote from: Soloratov on September 01, 2013, 05:41:16 AM
Do you somehow get offended by anyone who makes a change to their bike and likes it? I can't find any fault in someone posting about a change they made so that others can have another opinion for reference. Just because you may not like the change, doesn't make their opinion of it invalid. When I posted about my 18T change, I provided a relatively objective riding view, AND hard data numbers based on digital speed tests, and you still tried to tear it down. What exactly are you looking for? A lot of things are subjective, and can't be expressed in some perfect lab experiment way...sometimes, just sometimes, someone changes something and likes it purely because it suits them.
Objectively there is very little difference. Subjectively 500rpm can mean the difference between a bike that's comfortable or a buzz bomb.
Apparently we are going to have to conduct a "Double Blind Test" on this one :dunno_black:
Quote from: twocool on September 02, 2013, 03:24:49 AM
So...what exactly does you bike offer, that mine (stock) does not?
Cookie
Quote from: ron freeman on September 01, 2013, 05:16:54 PM
The transmission is all stock. 17t front gear and currently running stock 39T.
Ooh ooh I know this one! .. His bike offers him the chance to modify it to suit himself!! ... Just as every other person has the option to mod or leave stock !! .... Bikes are good like that!...
And Ron ... I know above the 41t rear sorta got covered already ... But if you do the conversions/math for stock 39/16 you get 2.43 ... And then the 41/17 you get 2.41 .. So slightly lower rpms .. 39/17 which you have currently gives 2.29 .... The 37/17 is 2.17 .... So both these 2 are lower again ...
Mostly people list the front first and rear second ... And I usually do too ... But for this it also shows the math process .. Rear divided by front ... And .... I faced my bike the other way this morning! ;) :D
I just calculated my 1st tank of fuel with a 17 tooth front sprocket. 62mpg. Fan-freakin-tastic.
17/37 would be close to the 18/39 on our '07, and that thing was like unrideable lol :flipoff:
Not really......not worth the $30 and effort to mess with the gears.....
GS500 is really smooth bike in the first place...
the useable range in EACH gear is like from 3500 to 11,000...so 500 is minor at best..
Cookie
Quote from: SAFE-T on September 02, 2013, 09:55:34 AM
Objectively there is very little difference. Subjectively 500rpm can mean the difference between a bike that's comfortable or a buzz bomb.
But I have AVERAGED 65 for the life of my bike (stock gearing) ....gotten as high as 80 on one run...many runs in the low 70's........
My average for the last 10 tankfuls is 63.........suspiciously the same as you are getting..hmmmm?
So tell me again what the bigger gear is doing for you?
Are you posting your mileage on fuelly? Run 10 or 20 tanks...then see what you have...one tank is subject to too many possible errors...gas mileage needs to be spread out over many tanks to equalize the errors...
BTW...if fuel mileage is your goal....changing gearing is not the answer......it is all about the throttle.....
just sayin'
Cookie
Quote from: ron freeman on September 02, 2013, 02:59:29 PM
I just calculated my 1st tank of fuel with a 17 tooth front sprocket. 62mpg. Fan-freakin-tastic.
Quote from: SAFE-T on September 02, 2013, 04:58:27 PM
17/37 would be close to the 18/39 on our '07, and that thing was like unrideable lol :flipoff:
2.17 vs 2.16 .... I have an '06 so probably fairly similar eh ...
unrideable ... errr ok ... wheels fall off or ran out of rego or something? ;)
to use a term much bandied about lately... thats subjective ..
i think my nieces hysoung gv250 is near unrideable ... cos im almost 6' and every time i turn the bars for a 'parking lot' type turn .. the bars hit me in the knees and put me in a wobble ... but her being 5'6" with shorter legs... she loves it.
the mates Buell Lightning is also almost unrideable... he has it wound up so tight and twitchy throttle wise that you can almost break the speed limit just by hitting a pothole... but he can make that thing dance!
every different 'vehicle/bike' i have ever used .. all the power is different .. the gears are different ratios .. sizes of vehicles are different .. stock vehicles and fairly heavily modded vehicles .. some of them take a little bit of working out and getting used to... but ive never found one yet that i couldnt adapt to ...
i dunno .. some can deal with changes and some cant i guess ..
personally i dislike home workshop bobbers to some degree and wouldnt own one ... not my style ... but i look at some of the ones here and i can appreciate the passion and work that the owners put into them .. they love the 'extra rebel' factor ... im not about to go stomping around and wailing that it should have been left pristine and virginal with original everything though ... that would be almost rude! ;) :thumb:
An additional benefit of riding every 500rpm less is, over the course of the next 10 years and 100,000 miles, his engine will have revved heaps less than it otherwise would have. So maybe he gets an extra year out of the engine. And That's a good thing. :thumb:
I log all my tank mileage on another forum. What people do not include is their average speed, which dramatically affects fuel mileage. My overall average speed is right at 40 MPH and I live in a fairly densly populated area with a total of 46 traffic lights in my normal 40 mile ride.
My average on stock gearing is 62.8 MPG over the 2k miles I have put on the 94 since June of this year.
I can't understand the conflict here, over a piddly 5.88% lower revs.
Like I posted before, if you never carry a passenger then when it comes time for the parts to be replaced. I will upgrade to the 17 tooth front sprocket.
Rounded off to 6%, you're talking about 3 MPH difference in speed at 50 MPH. A very slightly higer load on the engine which improves efficiency at the same speed. 6th gear would be good for me down to 35 MPH, versus the current just over 30.
It's about the difference between a 3.90 and a 3.73 rear axle in a car.
9422 RPM versus 10K.
regards
Mech
I wont lie- I actually enjoy having the 17th sprocket- Best damn decision of my life.
I wanted that extra few MPGs and I also didnt want my mirrors buzzing like they would at high speeds.
The larger sprocket blew me away. I couldn' t be happier and I could care less of what anyone else thinks.
I installed it and I made that choice.
I'm giving twocool the benefit of the doubt, he sits in a radio shop all day...I'd be a miserable tart too if I had to do that.....I prefer the rest of the airframe.
I actually spend more of my time FLYING.....
But personal attacks are fine...especially when you can't back up your point with facts......
Cookie
Quote from: jboogie13 on September 03, 2013, 11:01:20 AM
I'm giving twocool the benefit of the doubt, he sits in a radio shop all day...I'd be a miserable tart too if I had to do that.....I prefer the rest of the airframe.
Quote from: twocool on September 03, 2013, 05:48:24 PM
I actually spend more of my time FLYING.....
But personal attacks are fine...especially when you can't back up your point with facts......
Cookie
Quote from: jboogie13 on September 03, 2013, 11:01:20 AM
I'm giving twocool the benefit of the doubt, he sits in a radio shop all day...I'd be a miserable tart too if I had to do that.....I prefer the rest of the airframe.
Facts about what? the effects of going up one tooth on the front sprocket of a 34 hp motorcycle?
Not exactly ground breaking stuff here.
Well..."some" say that changing gears is the cat's meow...the greatest thing since sliced bread....the best single thing you can do to your GS500. (of course if you look back, the discussion was why LOWER gears are better, now its is why HIGHER gears are better...hmmm)
In reality, there is no measurable improvement whatsoever.........only "it feels good"...but what would you expect someone to say after then sent away for new gears and installed them.?
So if somebody is going to tell me how great it is...they better back up their statements......
So far only lame claims...like "my mirrors don't shake" or better mileage (when it is not better mileage) and base that claim on one tankful...
I still can't get over the fact that the original poster "tested" his new gear ratio only up to 5th gear....and "calibrated" his speedo and determined it to be 100% accurate, when we all know differently...
Hey...if anybody wants to change gears.. ok do it...but don't try to "bull crap" it to justify.......
stupid myths will continue.......gas, oil, spark plugs, additives, tires.........many are taken in by the myths...
Cookie
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Facts about what? the effects of going up one tooth on the front sprocket of a 34 hp motorcycle?
Not exactly ground breaking stuff here.
[/quote]
I don't think the people that want to make the changes have to bull crap on it at all .... There's surely enough bull crap 'static' coming from some quarters already!
It's like watching Sheldon being interested in bikes all of a sudden! :icon_rolleyes:
The posters aren't telling YOU twocool ... They are telling all of us... But you keep on demanding scientific this and triple blind that ... That's what they do in your workplace and mindspace then sweet!? ... The rest of us just like to compare notes and enjoy having the bike as we wish ... Whether its pure fantasy or actual 'evidence' ..
I don't agree with heaps of different bike stuff that people do ... But I appreciate that they do love it! .. This isn't discovery channel!! .. And even the Mythbusters have a certain leniency and humour in what they do ...
Sheesh! .. Relax!
In other word, on changing gears..."you got nothin'"
BTW...let's give the "little engine that could" it's full credit...47 HP (not 34)
But its simple...people on this group make some pretty outrageous claims........I ask for them to backup what they say....and mostly they can't...then the trouble starts.....
If you want outrageous claims to go un-challanged....then what's the point of a discussion group?
Cookie
Quote from: Janx101 on September 04, 2013, 04:12:01 AM
I don't think the people that want to make the changes have to bull crap on it at all .... There's surely enough bull crap 'static' coming from some quarters already!
It's like watching Sheldon being interested in bikes all of a sudden! :icon_rolleyes:
The posters aren't telling YOU twocool ... They are telling all of us... But you keep on demanding scientific this and triple blind that ... That's what they do in your workplace and mindspace then sweet!? ... The rest of us just like to compare notes and enjoy having the bike as we wish ... Whether its pure fantasy or actual 'evidence' ..
I don't agree with heaps of different bike stuff that people do ... But I appreciate that they do love it! .. This isn't discovery channel!! .. And even the Mythbusters have a certain leniency and humour in what they do ...
Sheesh! .. Relax!
Quote from: twocool on September 04, 2013, 04:19:32 AM
BTW...let's give the "little engine that could" it's full credit...47 HP (not 34)
At the crank on a good day. Measure at the wheel and you are lucky to get into the 40s.
As for the GS being "a really smooth bike"... compared to what? An old British single maybe? Ride a modern I-4 and tell me again how smooth the GS is. This illustrates the point you are missing: the GS is smooth
to you, much like a 17 tooth front sprocket is all sorts of awesome
to him.
:thumb:
Point is .... It's a discussion group ... Not a federally funded fact finding mission reporting to 'the boss' ... Friendly discussion ... Mates sharing opinions and info on things as they see it... I'm sure EVERYONE has mates/buddies that they can talk to without being hassled for proof every second sentence ... "How can they say 'I can't believe it's not butter?' ... Why isn't it butter or what is it if it isn't? .. What's the chemical composition and molecular weight?... How do they know what I believe? .. Are they spying on us? ..."
That would shaZam! me to distraction!
Also what it isn't is a engineering group with prizes for the shiniest and straightest slide rule!!
I would have thought all this thirst for exacting data would result in some 'for the good of the people's knowledge' testing ... By the people desiring the proof...
No point calling for volunteers for it either... The others are not bothered by it!..
I wanted headlight comparo info .. So I went and did it myself ... All very amateur too ... Spent 3 hours out in the night air .. I didn't know enough of the camera to do the exposures right so the photos are ordinary!! ... But I'm getting a handle on it and have a vid cam now too... Which should help a fair bit I hope!
It's not for everyone else to suit your need for proof ... You are the one disputing it ... So provide the factual and proven rebuttal ! ... Instead of just being the opposite of the claims ... Which is .. 'cant be so because I "know" it' ... Where is the data that proves the can't case? ... Personal experience is subjective on both points of view so far ..
Still .. It's probably (even without proof) ... Giving everyone's eye rolling muscles a good tone up ... Even this bit! :icon_neutral:
I'd just give up people, the pilot is always going to try to get the last word. He needs the validation.
Twocool, I'm all for accurate information, but since page one of this thread, you have been correcting every little bit of this discussion in the douchiest way possible. It is possible to contribute information about how to obtain enough data to convince even your highness, without being so rude about it.
This wasn't a how to thread, and it wasn't presented to be used as any type of standard.
As for your "loads of bull" on this forum...welcome to the internet. It would be wise of you to learn to see through it and leave it at that. :thumb:
Quote from: twocool on September 04, 2013, 04:19:32 AM
In other word, on changing gears..."you got nothin'"
BTW...let's give the "little engine that could" it's full credit...47 HP (not 34)
But its simple...people on this group make some pretty outrageous claims........I ask for them to backup what they say....and mostly they can't...then the trouble starts......................................
How about backing up your claim that the GS has 47 HP, it has about 40 HP give or take a couple at most. Every published road test that I've seen backs this up but what do the road testers and their dynos know compared to a GS500 expert like you?
http://www.gs500.net/gallery/data/500/GS500tests.jpg
The members of this forum who posted in this thread including the OP are just expressing their opinions not stating facts. And they are expressing opinions about something they have actually tried and you are disagreeing based on not having even tried it. To reply to a relatively new rider expressing his opinion on a sprocket he has actually tried by calling it "bull crap" is close to personal attack in my opinion and personal attack is not welcome here.
I think it's about time to send this thread to the Tard Farm which I almost did last night!
I provided hard facts in the first post on my 18T thread, hard numbers, based on multiple tanks of gas, and I wasn't doing it just for mileage, which I made clear. I provided hard data numbers on mileage difference, and RPM range. I still got flack for that. So facts or not, some people just can't handle someone's opposing view.
Quote from: Soloratov on September 04, 2013, 08:04:38 AM
I provided hard facts in the first post on my 18T thread, hard numbers, based on multiple tanks of gas, and I wasn't doing it just for mileage, which I made clear. I provided hard data numbers on mileage difference, and RPM range. I still got flack for that. So facts or not, some people just can't handle someone's opposing view.
But your tachometer wasn't calibrated to within .05% error. Consider your numbers debunked. :cookoo:
I could care less if I got 'better' gas mileage since the GS500 is already quite good to excellent in that respect. The 'less engine wear' claim is even more specious.
But the bike is just plain better with a larger front sprocket for some people, and a couple hundred rpm either way is both quantifiable and noticeable when you are on the thing all day.
Quote from: gsJack on September 04, 2013, 07:33:25 AM
Quote from: twocool on September 04, 2013, 04:19:32 AM
In other word, on changing gears..."you got nothin'"
BTW...let's give the "little engine that could" it's full credit...47 HP (not 34)
But its simple...people on this group make some pretty outrageous claims........I ask for them to backup what they say....and mostly they can't...then the trouble starts......................................
How about backing up your claim that the GS has 47 HP, it has about 40 HP give or take a couple at most. Every published road test that I've seen backs this up but what do the road testers and their dynos know compared to a GS500 expert like you?
http://www.gs500.net/gallery/data/500/GS500tests.jpg
The members of this forum who posted in this thread including the OP are just expressing their opinions not stating facts. And they are expressing opinions about something they have actually tried and you are disagreeing based on not having even tried it. To reply to a relatively new rider expressing his opinion on a sprocket he has actually tried by calling it "bull crap" is close to personal attack in my opinion and personal attack is not welcome here.
I think it's about time to send this thread to the Tard Farm which I almost did last night!
You my friend said exactly what I was thinking!
Dear lord, people. Whatever happened to simply saying, "Good for you. I'm glad you found something that you like"? Some people like 15T, some like the stock 16T, and others like 17T.
I personally use a 17T because I commute on the highway, and I prefer the slight drop in RPM. I used a 15T for a while, too. It was fun around town and on back roads, but the bike buzzed like mad on the highway. So I switched. It's all a matter of preference, and what you want out of your machine.
Lol...
His bike he can change what he wants and give any info he wants to us about it. Its upto us to then decide how it will effect us if we chose the same path....never flame on someone for offering info on options...thats what communities are for...simple...and bans usually get dished quicksmart ive seen elsewhere.....
Sent from my GT-I9210T using Tapatalk 2
Yo Jas...could 17/39 be a good mix for mainly freeway 100kmh stuff ?
Sent from my GT-I9210T using Tapatalk 2
I questioned buying a "500" cc bike and then I found this forum. I was proud to own a bike that had such a following. It reminded me of my classic Volkswagen and those that adored the Bug. You guys have the same passion I do...Riding my GS. We all love the GS and I'm proud to own a bike that has such a following. Thank you GSTwins forum for providing me a place to find ideas to improve the 1st motorcycle I've ever owned
pardon my ignorance, ignore this post.
He did start the thread....
Anyway, I with you Ron. It's crazy when you think about the fact that this is really the ONLY place dedicated to ONE bike. Granted, it is the longest running non-Harley motorcycle model on the planet...so that helps. But I think in general it's just the simplicity and toughness of the bike itself. You can't kill it! (Barring freak stuff, or poor maintenance)
Quote from: Golly on September 04, 2013, 12:25:53 PM
Yo Jas...could 17/39 be a good mix for mainly freeway 100kmh stuff ?
Sent from my GT-I9210T using Tapatalk 2
That's what I have on mine. 17T front and stock 39 rear. It's nice and happy pulling 5500 at around 72-73 mph (~116 kph) indicated in 6th gear. So, yeah. You'd be set at 100 kph (~62 mph). Honestly, though, if you're not going above 100 klicks, stock gearing should be alright. As stated before, it's all preference.
Edit: And Ron, I agree completely. I fell in love with the bike initially because I knew I didn't want a 250 to start out on, and it appealed to me more than a Ninja. This forum made me fall in love with it even more. I thought about trading up a couple of times, but I honestly think I'm going to keep it, even if I do get another bike. It's just so much fun.
My first bike at age 23 was a Kawasaki 900. A few years later I owned a ratty Harley. Even later a Suzuki Savage. 5 years ago I started riding again on a Kawasaki 125 Eliminator (dont know what it eliminated other than a few mosquitoes). Then a couple of Rebels, bought cheap, fixed up, rode several thousand miles then sold for a profit that covered all my fuel, tags, and insurance, free riding. last year I had a CBR250R, then a Ninja 300, sold both of them and Got my 94 GS500 with 10k miles for $1200, very clean bike garage kept since new. I now have an 89, the 94, and my old friends (now deceased) 1971 CB350 he bought brand new in the fall of 1971 when he came back from Viet Nam. I got the Honda in April 2011 when it was exactly 40 years old.
The GS500 for me (and only me) is the perfect combination of power, modern technology, strong frame, 6 speed, tubless-radial capable wheels, good fuel mileage, but most of all fun to ride and simple to repair and maintain.
All of this crap about 5.88% difference in engine speed, to seriously see that pitiful amount of difference as a point to argue, merely shows every reader, for years to come that triviality survives, and it's simply a waste of time to try to convince some to not be argumentively trivial.
I know I won't, just use that old cranial ignore function.
regards
Mech
Quote from: Soloratov on September 04, 2013, 05:49:15 PM
Anyway, I with you Ron. It's crazy when you think about the fact that this is really the ONLY place dedicated to ONE bike. Granted, it is the longest running non-Harley motorcycle model on the planet...so that helps. But I think in general it's just the simplicity and toughness of the bike itself. You can't kill it! (Barring freak stuff, or poor maintenance)
Royal Enfield?
Ural?
:D
Quote from: Old Mechanic on September 04, 2013, 07:08:31 PM
All of this crap about 5.88% difference in engine speed, to seriously see that pitiful amount of difference as a point to argue, merely shows every reader, for years to come that triviality survives, and it's simply a waste of time to try to convince some to not be argumentively critical.
What is worth arguing is that although 5.88% sounds like nothing it is definitely something you notice when you ride the bike, particularly above 100km/h. If people are irked, it's because someone dismissed a well-documented mod as useless based on the fact they could not see how 5.88% could possibly make a difference when it most certainly does.
Just be grateful AdidasGuy doesn't run 17/39 gearing, or you would really get an earful.
Quote from: Soloratov on September 04, 2013, 05:49:15 PMIt's crazy when you think about the fact that this is really the ONLY place dedicated to ONE bike.
There are discussion boards for just about everything ever built. Even minivans have forums, with 'mod' sections where people can discuss whatever it is a minivan owner might want to do take their mommy wagon to the next level of righteousness LOL
I was talking about specific models, not brands. It's extremely rare to find a place dedicated to a single model from a company. Usually it's Muscle Cars, Low Riders, Street Bikes, Stunt Bikes. Not, Honda CB900 forum, Chevy Bel-Air forum.
Quote from: Soloratov on September 05, 2013, 08:28:28 AM
I was talking about specific models, not brands. It's extremely rare to find a place dedicated to a single model from a company. Usually it's Muscle Cars, Low Riders, Street Bikes, Stunt Bikes. Not, Honda CB900 forum, Chevy Bel-Air forum.
I was in a Rukus, Burgman, V-Strom, WR250R dedicated forums, most of the popular models have dedicated forums, but I got what you meant just the same :cheers:
I guess I had just never come across a large community like this for anything else, that wasn't part of a larger message board. I stand humbly corrected sir.
Quote from: Soloratov on September 05, 2013, 09:11:29 AM
I guess I had just never come across a large community like this for anything else, that wasn't part of a larger message board. I stand humbly corrected sir.
My intent was not to make you humble or correct you, its just there are alot more forums around that you are not aware of :thumb:
And stop calling me sir :whisper:
How about Surely?