http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs/post--motorcyclists-can-legally-run-red-lights-in-nevada?icid=autos_4806
Bloody good idea. :thumb:
Some states already have such a law. Unfortunately, MD is not one of them.
WA either now has that law or is going to pass it.
It is not "running a red light" but proceeding through an intersection when a traffic signal fails. It can be broken or fail to detect traffic. If that happens, you can proceed through the intersection if safe to do so.
There is a big distinction between "running" a red light and "cautiously proceeding through" a red light when the signal malfunctions for whatever reason.
Quote from: adidasguy on October 01, 2013, 10:45:08 PM
There is a big distinction between "running" a red light and "cautiously proceeding through" a red light when the signal malfunctions for whatever reason.
I must say I have done it. Was in the car as were the other 20 to 30 people behind me. Lights never let us through so I made the decision to break the law and proceed as did everyone else. Dont think any of us would have been booked for it?
We get the odd dodgy set of lights here - normally the Philips (Tyco) controllers will flash all groups amber to instruct motorists to treat the intersection as uncontrolled... usually it is a complete power loss that will make it all fall over.
We also have fail safes here for most controllers that will force the controller to detect a faulty detection loop as always having a car there. That can really screw with the timings though if you get a lot of broken loops - but at least you get your turn to get through.
Part of my former life job was servicing faulty signals.. watching the lemmings not know how an uncontrolled intersection works is always good for a laugh... especially the intersections that had only recently been changed from uncontrolled to controlled.
Would like to at least see the rule bought in here to be able to turn on the red (LHS here) - would be much better at intersections where pedestrians take their sweet time crossing when the light goes green...
The phrasing is a little BS, but that's how the news likes to hook us in. Illinois has a similar law, but ours reads that you can pass through after waiting for 2 minutes. I haven't had it happen yet but it seems that we should be able to proceed if you have a clear opening and the light is being stubborn.
Quote from: tmbr_wulf on October 02, 2013, 02:51:21 PM
The phrasing is a little BS, but that's how the news likes to hook us in. Illinois has a similar law, but ours reads that you can pass through after waiting for 2 minutes. I haven't had it happen yet but it seems that we should be able to proceed if you have a clear opening and the light is being stubborn.
Aye here in tn, first I try restarting the moto. then if no opposing traffic, proceed as if it were a 4 way stop.
would be nice if WV enacted such a law; there are several stop lights here in town that don't react to bikes.
Quote from: radodrill on October 02, 2013, 07:01:23 PM
would be nice if WV enacted such a law; there are several stop lights here in town that don't react to bikes.
sometimes theyre pressure switches, sometimes they are magnetic. back in the day around 2004 here, someone mentioned putting magnets on the frame rails to assist with the switches. id always shut my gs off as I rolled up, then restart it. sometimes it worked, sometimes no
Maybe I should contact the city's public works or city engineer's office to find out what sensing system they're using and if it can be easily improved.
For the inductive sensors, your best bet is to either ride right over the loop, or ride slightly to the right of the loop and put your sidestand down on it. The sidestand trick will work better than any magnet--magnets will not affect induction loops any more than a non-magnetic block of metal will. Simply put, the sensor detects surface area. Putting your bike on the sidestand over the loop increases the surface area detected, making it more likely to trip the sensor.
I can't stress this enough. Magnets tripping inductive sensors is a myth. Save your money.
Quote from: RossLH on October 02, 2013, 09:01:51 PM
For the inductive sensors, your best bet is to either ride right over the loop, or ride slightly to the right of the loop and put your sidestand down on it. The sidestand trick will work better than any magnet--magnets will not affect induction loops any more than a non-magnetic block of metal will. Simply put, the sensor detects surface area. Putting your bike on the sidestand over the loop increases the surface area detected, making it more likely to trip the sensor.
I can't stress this enough. Magnets tripping inductive sensors is a myth. Save your money.
this is one reason ive not tried it. that and the law here. cept now with the danged photo cameras at redlights, it can be a tad more difficult. course on a goped, its not like they'll find out where I live lol.
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on October 02, 2013, 09:12:23 PMcept now with the danged photo cameras at redlights
Check your local and state ordinances; some do not allow automatic cameras to be used for issuing tickets (by mail) for running a red light. I know for a fact that in my state traffic cameras are not allowed for issuing citations but a lot of intersections have cameras for the timing and control of the stop lights.
Quote from: tmbr_wulf on October 02, 2013, 02:51:21 PM
The phrasing is a little BS, but that's how the news likes to hook us in. Illinois has a similar law, but ours reads that you can pass through after waiting for 2 minutes. I haven't had it happen yet but it seems that we should be able to proceed if you have a clear opening and the light is being stubborn.
2 minutes? I haven't looked recently, but last I checked Illinois was worded, 'a reasonable amount of time' which basically left it up to the rider to decide how long was reasonable for the particular intersection and situation... one local officer and fellow rider interpreted that to say it was reasonable to use the this law more quickly in more extreme weather conditions such as high heat. I remember some folks having an issue with the wording because it was left upto the rider, but I'm not sure it has actually changed from that original wording :dunno_black: But, I do use it myself rather often because there is a particular light near my house that will not change for most any bike unless a car pulls up behind.
- Bboy
YUP! One of my favorite 2 wheel laws, really helps when on the shredpeds- ~300lbs total(me and ped) doesn't trip a damn thing
2 cycles or 2 minutes and you're good to go in VA. I usually make it to 1 minute and find my opening haha
@Bboy. I did a little more reading and it sounds like Quinn vetoed the original version of the bill which was written as "a reasonable amount of time." It seems like when the legislature over-rode his veto the language was clarified to
Quote...within a reasonable period of time not less than 120 seconds...
I was able to find this in the State Vehicle Code http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=062500050HCh.+11+Art.+II&ActID=1815&ChapterID=49&SeqStart=107300000&SeqEnd=109900000 (http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=062500050HCh.+11+Art.+II&ActID=1815&ChapterID=49&SeqStart=107300000&SeqEnd=109900000), 625 ILCS 5/11-208.6.b.4.(c-6) [sorry, I'm not 100% sure how to site legal documents.]
SOB!! It looks like I just tracked down the provision that says that a motorcycle can't be ticketed by an automated traffic law enforcement system for going through the red in this situation. :technical:
Okay, here's the real deal, http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=062500050HCh.+11+Art.+III&ActID=1815&ChapterID=49&SeqStart=109900000&SeqEnd=111400000 (http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=062500050HCh.+11+Art.+III&ActID=1815&ChapterID=49&SeqStart=109900000&SeqEnd=111400000) And it is apparently not valid in Chicago due to the population stipulation.
QuoteIn municipalities with less than 2,000,000 inhabitants, after stopping as required by paragraph 1 or 2 of this subsection, the driver of a motorcycle or bicycle, facing a steady red signal which fails to change to a green signal within a reasonable period of time not less than 120 seconds because of a signal malfunction or because the signal has failed to detect the arrival of the motorcycle or bicycle due to the vehicle's size or weight, shall have the right to proceed, after yielding the right of way to oncoming traffic facing a green signal, subject to the rules applicable after making a stop at a stop sign as required by Section 11-1204 of this Code.
Well there it is in black and white. Thanks! Aside from a cop actually watching you during the entire process, I'm not sure how they could 'time' you otherwise, but good to know what the law really is. You can bet I'll continue to use it too. :thumb:
- Bboy
I agree. As long as they're not there the entire time there's probably some doubt there that you could wiggle through in the event that they tried to call you on the 120 second rule. What I would love to see is a motorcycle at the head of a line of traffic stopped at a long light just get up and go leaving all the cars sitting there. While it could technically be legal it could bring some heat on the law if it were abused like that.
Here in AZ most lights operate with cameras. They note a change in the image and assume there is a vehicle. I like these over pressure or magnetic switches which are buggy at best.
Nearly every traffic light road sensor here is an inductive loop which detects the ferrous steel in the steel belted tyres / frames - we usually used to test them using a metal tool box just on the corner of the loop. I know when the loops get a few layers of seal over them (about 3inches) they would stop working (unless a truck parked up on them) and we would have to put in new ones.
Also have some sites with cycle lane sensors which are a scaled down version of vehicle loops. They never really took off since most push bikes (roadies especially) are made of very little amounts of ferrous material anymore.
Where we had really busy sites with broken loops, we used to use temporary microwave sensors to detect cars moving up to the intersection - these picked up everything including pushbikes and motorcycles. Microwave sensors were pricey and difficult to align (and also suffered from reflections).
I know from some of the spares we had out the back that they used to use a pressure hose at right angles to the road - this would activate a simple pressure switch. I don't think we really used these much here. Only other sensor is the Piezio type which was mainly used here for classification/counting sites or the old speed camera sites were you need the absolute accuracy (although our new mobile and fixed speed cameras use digital analytics and 1 camera can cover up to 10 lanes in either direction with no active (detectible) systems like Laser or Radar).
I can say that camera systems are probably going to take over, since they can be used for detecting red light runners etc. also.
Quote from: tmbr_wulf on October 03, 2013, 10:48:55 AM
I agree. As long as they're not there the entire time there's probably some doubt there that you could wiggle through in the event that they tried to call you on the 120 second rule. What I would love to see is a motorcycle at the head of a line of traffic stopped at a long light just get up and go leaving all the cars sitting there. While it could technically be legal it could bring some heat on the law if it were abused like that.
Lol, I have actually done that... and I thought about that very thing before I did it too, haha
But... the guy behind wouldn't pull up! He was two full car lengths behind me and he couldn't understand what I was trying to get him to do, so I finally just said Eff it... looked both ways and went. Maybe he had an epiphany when the light turned after he pulled up? :dunno_black: Not like I sped off or anything squidly, but I had to move, I was getting drenched from sweat sitting there too long.
- Bboy
Only time I was ever pulled over on a bike was for doing this. It was later at night and I came to an unfamiliar T-junction waiting to turn left. Sat there forever and ever and it never changed. Lucky for me there was plenty of visibility on both sides. So after waiting a good 5 minutes I finally proceeded through the red light. Just as I was about halfway through the turn I saw lights come up behind me (the road leading to the t-junction where I was turning off of was heavily curved). About 5 seconds later the blues came on and I immediately pulled off the road.
Cop came up and immediately asked me "You know I saw you run that light, right?" to which I replied "Yes officer, I'm aware of that." He kind of paused and then asked "Well, why did you run the light?" to which I replied "Because I had been sitting there for a long time waiting and I figured either the light wasn't registering me or it was broken." He asked "How long is a 'long time'?" to which I replied "At least 5 minutes maybe longer."
I'm pretty sure he wanted to give me a ticket but couldn't do it because he sort-of begrudgingly said "Well...okay, next time you need to wait longer." and I said "Alright officer." and that was the end of it. It was over and done in about 2 minutes probably less.
Just goes to show you...just when you think somebody isn't looking...they are.
this is true. very true. i bust em on the goped often. ( least until i blew the engine lol) it weighs 42lbs wet, me, im 141 lol. so it will NOT trip one of those lol.
In other countries running a red light is a requirement almost. Driving in Mexico City at night, I was told not to stop at any red light, but to get close to the light look and proceed. Do not stop totally as go give the carjackers and opportunity to take advantage. That rule only applied to after dark traffic. Most importantly not to get in between 2 cars that are driving close together. Supposed to be somebody with bodyguards and don't mess with them.