So my motor is knocking at 10,xxx miles on the bike.
Yesterday i started it up after work, and i was talking to a co-worker while I was letting it warm up with the choke on, turned off the choke and at idle there is a knocking sound....well shoot, rev it it gos away. I tried rocking the bike back and forth from left to right to see if it could be the cams but that did not change the sound. So i'll check valves when i get home today. I changed the oil as soon as i got the bike. To castrol 10-40 syn motorbike oil 2,xxx miles ago. Also I strained it when draining it to see if there were any flakes. Its almost the end of the rideing season so i want to get as much rideing as possible in before i tear into it. My co-worker thinks its rod bearings, but the oil isn't low or burn.
Questions:
1. What are things to check?
2. what is the best/simplest way to check rod bearings?
3. If it is rod bearings am i going to need a new motor?
4. if i need a new motor and this one is still running should i just ride it until it dies?
I know that there isn't a simple answer to this and i know that I wont know any thing until i break down the motor, just looking for some advice.
Also its 04 GS500 I bought it early September and put 2,xxx miles on it., I don't race it, I use it to commute to and from work, Always let it idle 2-3 minutes before i ride. Usually the highest rpm it will see from me is 7,5xx
Check the CCT first. If it's a rod bearing, you'll soon notice metal flakes in the bottom of the oil pain.
The noise generated from a worn rod bearing does not usually disappear as rpms increase.........it gets worse!
There is only one way to check bearing condition that doesn't involve dismantling the engine and inspecting/measuring components, that's to check the oil pressure in accordance with Suzukis procedure.
Those fastenings that hold the starter gear to the flywheel can loosen off and cause a rattle at idle that is often confused for a worn bearing, I would start by checking them out
Good call on the CCT is it adjustable or just needs replaced. (tx500 required breaking the cam chain and tearing down the head to do so) So I'm ok with doing that if need be lol
Ill see about checking the oil pressure.
I'll try to check the small things first and work my way up.
Thanks for all the input! .....I was hopeing now to have to throw another $1000 at this bike
If it's a low frequency knock only at idle, only when hot, and goes away when throttle is picked up to a fast idle your lucky. Sounds like the cam shaft end play knock that many have had and it's harmless if that's what it is. I was first to report it here 10-12 years ago and pulled my valve cover to check and found excess endplay on one cam.
Suzuki finally acknowledged it on early 04-05 F models and came out with a warranty fix:
http://www.gs500.net/gallery/data/500/Can_Fix.jpg
If it's not the cam knock then you can start worrying. Had it on both my 97 and 02 GSs but haven't heard it for years now. Frequency of knock is most important in identifying it from low end knocks.
It happens when cold and hot, but gos away at 1,500 rpm or better
I never heard it cold, only when hot. It's more of a thud as I recall it and at a one second or so frequency. You mentioned going home to check valves so you can check tensioner and unloaded cam end play while it's opened up.
Quote from: sledge on October 22, 2013, 11:57:55 AM
The noise generated from a worn rod bearing does not usually disappear as rpms increase.........it gets worse!
Not quite ... rod bearing as it starts to go will knock when you're off the throttle.
Of course that will soon be followed by banging and hammering @ all times and a hail of metal inside your crankcase.
Cam chain noise will obviously sound like a chain - like a metal chain dragging over a metal grate ...
Tap tap @ 1500 or less = end play on cam shaft, or one valve being @ higher side of spec clearance.
Cool.
Buddha.
Anyone else noticed an echo in here??
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=65626.msg786635#msg786635
It wont be a bearing if you have managed to get another 2k on it without it getting any worse and it wont be the camshaft if your engine number is above 125865
You say the noise appears to come from the lower left.............well that's where the starter gear is located.....so go check it out :dunno_black:
...... :D
How forgetful i can be.
I assume you are talking about the vin when saying engine number above 125865?
Quote from: robfriedenberger on October 22, 2013, 01:05:50 PM
...... :D
How forgetful i can be.
I assume you are talking about the vin when saying engine number above 125865?
No....we are talking about the engine number.
Where is the engine number typically found?
Its stamped into the engine casing in the area to the left of and behind the oil filler cap. It will begin with M504
Thanks, that should give some thing to go off of.
I forgot about last months noise, can hardly wait until next month! :icon_lol:
Hopefully next months noises..... :dunno_white:
I guess there wont be any noises either way next month. Also the end of the season here. Its ~40 degrease here in the mornings when I'm on my way to work at 40-80MPH...Its cold. :icon_sad:
I really need to get this sorted out before it go's in to storage for the winter.
Quote from: sledge on October 22, 2013, 12:43:47 PM
Anyone else noticed an echo in here??
There is always an echo in here ... have you seen a new issue in years ... Ok maybe the second instance of starwalts qualifies - otherwise its the same BS over and over ...
Cool.
Buddha.
I get you said you changed the oil 2K miles ago but what was the oil level when you developed this knock?
Quote from: gsJack on October 22, 2013, 02:45:28 PM
I forgot about last months noise, can hardly wait until next month! :icon_lol:
Amen to that brother.
Just take it out and wind it out real good and hard. If something bad happens it was just time for it to happen. Oh, then check your oil :thumb:.
Quote from: The Buddha on October 22, 2013, 03:40:38 PM
otherwise its the same BS over and over ...
You can say that again :D :D :D
The oil looked fine when I dumped it, it was about 2.5qt it was showing up on the dip stick in the cross hatched area. He said that he changed it roughly 2k miles before I got it, like I said though there wasn't any flakes that I found. Didn't pull the valve cover last night due to it still being hot. When I had time to do it. I took a video instead, also its raining today so ill be taking the Silverado to work so I should be able to pull the valve cover tonight.
I know its frowned upon but how bad is it to pull the valve cover warm/hot?
The youtube video is processing so ill let it go for now ill check back once I get to work.
Video posted!
http://youtu.be/EQwUkF8s5Y0
My engine number is M504-107959 so I guess it could also be the cams walking noise
I've pulled the valve cover when hot ... yea you want forget that experience as long as you live ...
BTW you have a long flat screwdriver - 18" - 2 ft - gonna need that to shut off tank petcock.
And a lot of courage and pain tolerance ... why you wanna measure valve clearance when hot ? go on do it my friend ...
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: robfriedenberger on October 23, 2013, 05:56:07 AM
I know its frowned upon but how bad is it to pull the valve cover warm/hot?
a hot valve cover?.. dont know about that.. but i would believe buddha on it eh!
however... vague comparison... .... i was out and about the other week... wanted to try different preload settings on the katana shock... i have a original shock adjuster 2 piece tool from the little onboard kit...
and being an impatient lad.... pulled up... 'waited almost 2 mins for the exhaust to cool'.... cos you have to slide the tool in right between the exhaust and frame...
it went like this...
"ok... slide it through there carefully.. get the hook onto th... sizzle.. f%$k !!... onto the slot.... now adjust the handle for better grip.. dammit too far in.. ok bac... sizzle ...f%$k!!... ok back onto the right length... pull it around till it stops.. unhook and go back for the next slo... sizzle
f%$k !!! ... next slot and adjust handle again.. sizzle
f%$k !!! .. clunk... ok... thats one preload setting change... right.. lets ride!" .. :icon_rolleyes:
cool engine and bits are
nice to work on.. if you have any option to do so!!
That was more so in case I ran into some free time after rideing, well the plan for today was to get to it after work, to my surprise my truck had been broken into after work so after dealing with the insurance company and police, I'm out of time for today, any one have any thoughts on my video ?
Hey all,
I finally got some time on my hands to get messing around with the bike, So I puled the seat, pulled the two tank bolts wiggled the tank backwards, pop and than gas was poring all over the floor until I could shut off the gas......My fuel lines were so bad that they just rotted and moving the tank broke them off. Than I pulled the breather cover, than the valve cover bolts all five of them......In my experience valve covers usually pop right off not really any thing to them. I fought with it for about 10 minutes with no luck. So I broke out the mallet and broke a few things....by accident. At least its not any thing really bad.
Any suggestions on the valve cover?
[attachment deleted by admin]
Heres the stuff I broke, and the valve cover that I cant get off.
[attachment deleted by admin]
....its been a long day, I missed one screw
How big was the malet?
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Rather large 18" long 4" at the head 4lbs,
So I didn't find the factory specs on valves before I called it quits for the night but the cam chain appears to be fine, there isn't any end play with the cams, so im thinking its the starter clutch assembly that's causing the issues.
Quote from: robfriedenberger on October 25, 2013, 08:37:33 PM
Rather large 18" long 4" at the head 4lbs,
So I didn't find the factory specs on valves before I called it quits for the night but the cam chain appears to be fine, there isn't any end play with the cams, so im thinking its the starter clutch assembly that's causing the issues.
Next time you need to use dynamite OK, a small bundle 7 sticks oughta do it. :2guns:
Cool.
Buddha.
the mistakes that end up costing you time and or money, are usually the ones you wont repeat :). yes ive made these before. i think we all have
Thank god I don't think any of these mistakes are going to cost me any money!
The carb vacuum line might, but I am going to glue it, should be fine!
Quote from: robfriedenberger on October 26, 2013, 09:39:57 AM
Thank god I don't think any of these mistakes are going to cost me any money!
The carb vacuum line might, but I am going to glue it, should be fine!
Why wouldn't you just buy a new line?
I did buy new lines today......Sorry its the fitting for the line, I need to find a replacement fitting BTW so if any one can find a part number that would be great. I could not....the bike runs fine with out it.
I just closed every thing up, valves were with in spec .03-.05 on the intake, and .8 on the exhaust, the CCT checked out fine did not seam broken and the chain was taunt. So back to the drawing board, I did had the extra large screw driver out so I did take a listen (which would of saved me from all this but The fuel lines needed replaced). I found that the sound is more so of the left side cover, the right side cover you can still hear it but its faint.
Any ideas? Starter bolts?
Think I found the issue, any thoughts?
Quote from: The Buddha on October 22, 2013, 12:32:24 PM
Cam chain noise will obviously sound like a chain - like a metal chain dragging over a metal grate ...
Cool.
Buddha.
Well i think that explains the problem I've been having. I dropped my bike about 2 months ago and noticed a sound which fits your description most noticeable at around 4500rpm when riding.
It hasn't got any worse, i changed the oil and filter and the noise hasn't changed at all.
Should i be changing a part out asap?
Quote from: Toiletbooger on January 06, 2014, 07:12:47 AM
Well i think that explains the problem I've been having. I dropped my bike about 2 months ago and noticed a sound which fits your description most noticeable at around 4500rpm when riding.
It hasn't got any worse, i changed the oil and filter and the noise hasn't changed at all.
Should i be changing a part out asap?
Closely watching this, matches my situation almost exactly (I had a very harshly worded disagreement with a kangaroo at around 40km/h), same kind of noise, filter and oil changed, noise seems almost the same. Although for me it's been around 3 months. Is the noise indicative of the cam chain needing adjustment/replacing?
Haha, so it seams like once these bikes are dropped the same thing happens. The PO of my bike dropped the bike in the "drive way" :bs: to much damage to be so but I got a good deal so I wasn't worried about it. I'm waiting on new gaskets, pins, rollers, springs, before I put it back together so I should have an update on Tuesday for you guys.
Quote from: Craftylilalien on January 06, 2014, 08:39:24 AM
Closely watching this, matches my situation almost exactly (I had a very harshly worded disagreement with a kangaroo at around 40km/h), same kind of noise, filter and oil changed, noise seems almost the same. Although for me it's been around 3 months. Is the noise indicative of the cam chain needing adjustment/replacing?
It appears I've misled you gents, through my own imagination. I just discovered a video I took when I first got the bike, roughly 9,900km's ago, and it had the EXACT same noise as I'm getting when I ride it now. So my noise is not because of my drop, might be perhaps from a drop from the PO, which was apparent when I bought the bike, or perhaps is a noise the bikes just have...?
My '91 has a rattle around 4-4.5k under load, possibly the same noise. Noticed it a couple months after I got it, was never sure if it was there before or it started when I replaced one of my valves. Been running it for well over 10,000 miles that way without a change. I think it might be some form of valve/cam noise.
Just the the gaskets, and hardware in yesterday. Depending on how tired I am when I get off of work in the morning I should have an update! :dunno_black:
Well I couldn't help my self I worked on it all day once I got home and here's the fished product!
http://youtu.be/regpJd-VFV8
It's running much better now!
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So another update, the white plastic cap has been repaired and it dose make a huge difference. After it broke I rode it a few miles and I was kinda giving up on the idea of a 500cc motorcycle, and "lack of power". I'm still not 100% sure what that cap dose or how it works I just know it did improve over all power, with that said who knows how much I was losing to the starter clutch.
The white cap on the carbs seals the vaccuum diaphragm chamber. The pressure differential between that chamber and manifold pressure is what causes the CV slides to raise and lower.
If the cap is broker, the chamber will normalize to atmospheric pressure. Since atmospheric pressure is always higher than manifold pressure, even at wide open throttle, the slide will never raise up. This severely restricts airflow into the engine, resulting in a massive loss of power. It also prevents the main jets from working correctly, since the jet needle is tied to the CV slide.
Basically, on the broken carb, you effectively wouldn't be able to get past 1/5 throttle or so.
Probably resulted in vibrations, since the issue would have thrown your cylinders way out of balance.
Burning1,
Thanks for the reply, I should of posted more information about the repair of the cap. So I did was took a finishing nail heated it up until red hot and pushed it though the other plastic tube, increasing the nail size until it was close in diameter. Than I used a hot knife to close up the existing hole.
hello,
Just picked up my 04 gs500f with the same sound from the lower left side of the engine. i have just taken the flywheel bolt out and my next question is does the flywheel actually come off with the magnet housing with the 3 bolts or does the housing just come off and the flywheel stays on?
im at this point. just wanting to know if the flywheel comes off with it or stays there. thanks
(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p67/Blacktilly/Phone%20picsVids/IMG_20140119_205738_475_zpscee1885a.jpg) (http://s125.photobucket.com/user/Blacktilly/media/Phone%20picsVids/IMG_20140119_205738_475_zpscee1885a.jpg.html)
(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p67/Blacktilly/Phone%20picsVids/IMG_20140119_205756_012_zps5d96cf14.jpg) (http://s125.photobucket.com/user/Blacktilly/media/Phone%20picsVids/IMG_20140119_205756_012_zps5d96cf14.jpg.html)
Mike a spacer 36mm that fits inside the crankshaft (10mm) than thread the swing arm bolt into the flywheel. Now you will be able to remove the flywheel and get to the starter clutch
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Sweet thanks I'll try that tomorrow.
got it off thank you. That video is awesome as well.
Ended up finding one broken bolt and two loose bolts.
Yeah, mine were all lose and stretched, its kinda crazy that happens.
Use some thread lock and new bolts (got mine at ace), the book has the spec but i think its 15-20 lbs
Just wanted to give an update on my bike.
Cleaned everything installed new bolts with lock tight and new springs(mine were smashed) put it back together runs smooth at idle :)
Thanks for your help! :)
Glad that it worked out for you, yeah some thing weird was up with my pins/springs as well. But glad it worked out!
The 2002 GS I bought a week ago has a thud sound below 2-3k :(
There is a thud, then the rpm briefly drops less than 100rpm. Seems sporadic.
Does this sound like cam knock or starter clutch bolts?
Can't believe this!! Now this bike is probably out of commission along with my 95, which this was supposed to replace.