I'm just having a tough time with my bike this winter. It seems like it never warms up completely, wants to die every time I come to a stop, and this morning it wouldn't turn over at all (I'm thinking it's the battery).
I'm frustrated because I have had the battery on the bike for less than a year. I'm also frustrated because it's my only means of transportation, and I can't really bum a ride to work at 5:30 every morning.
What am I doing wrong here?
My bike was stalling at stops and it was tight valves. After a valve adjustment that symptom completely disappeared and it never stalls at stops anymore. I went over the factory clearance spec (.03-.08) to .12 and .14 on the exhaust valves and factory spec (again .03-.08) on the intakes (ended up at .05 and .07).
Also did a carb sync with vacuum gauges after the valve adjustment, as that is the recommended next step. Very little adjustment on the carb sync screw makes a huge difference.
Before this service, occasionally I would have trouble re-starting after a stall. I thought it might be the battery or charging system. I did the complete range of electrical system and battery tests and found my stator not putting out the spec of 75vAC, but only about 62vAC. Everything else checked out OK, including charging voltage at RPM.
Without changing anything electrical, I have no trouble starting under any conditions. I can only assume that the tight valves and carbs off-sync caused the engine to be harder to turn and was sometimes too much for the battery.
Good luck, and remember, your GS loves you! So love it back with a valve adjustment!!! :cheers:
Quote from: HotrodScamp on February 06, 2014, 07:41:59 AM
My bike was stalling at stops and it was tight valves. After a valve adjustment that symptom completely disappeared and it never stalls at stops anymore. I went over the factory clearance spec (.03-.08) to .12 and .14 on the exhaust valves and factory spec (again .03-.08) on the intakes (ended up at .05 and .07).
Also did a carb sync with vacuum gauges after the valve adjustment, as that is the recommended next step. Very little adjustment on the carb sync screw makes a huge difference.
Before this service, occasionally I would have trouble re-starting after a stall. I thought it might be the battery or charging system. I did the complete range of electrical system and battery tests and found my stator not putting out the spec of 75vAC, but only about 62vAC. Everything else checked out OK, including charging voltage at RPM.
Without changing anything electrical, I have no trouble starting under any conditions. I can only assume that the tight valves and carbs off-sync caused the engine to be harder to turn and was sometimes too much for the battery.
Good luck, and remember, your GS loves you! So love it back with a valve adjustment!!! :cheers:
Thank you for the response. I've never attempted a valve adjustment before. Hopefully, I won't light my bike on fire in the process. :D
Also, my front tire keeps losing air somehow. The valve stem is tight, there are no nails in it, and I sprayed water on both sides of the rim and there was no bubbling.
It never ends.
Could it just be that the cold temps are causing the air in the tire to compress?
Good plugs really help in t he winter. At least clean, new ones if yours are dirty. I do find PowerMadd plugs work - started Suzi last night at 20* F.
One trick is to warm up the battery. Turn the lights on for a minute or two. Start bike for 5 seconds or so. WAIT 10-20 seconds. Repeat. Then maybe wait 30 seconds or more. BAM! Battery is warm, lots of juice and starts right away.
AND I'M DOING THIS WITH SHORAI LiFe BATTERIES! We all know LiFe batteries hate the cold. All batteries hate cold but LiFe get fussy at 40* and 20* really makes them unhappy. The first attempt to crank does nothing - only crank for 5 seconds or less. Wait 10 seconds and try again: more crank (5 seconds or less again). Wait again and try: even more crank because the battery is heating up. Wait 30 seconds to a minute and starts right up.
It takes time for the battery to heat up and the heat to dissipate throughout the battery.
Try too much cranking at one time and you will damage the battery - either through depleting it or localized hot spots that do internal damage.
I know the times I mention for cranking are changing from older posts. I've been refining cold starting. Now I don't have to worry about starting when below freezing. Yesterday I rode HUHSKY to the UW then SUZI later to bowling. It never was above 25* yesterday. I was able to easily start every time doing this method to warm the battery. Yes - it can take a minute or two minutes of periodic cranking but it does start and no damage to the battery.
After starting it could take 30 seconds to a minute to warm up before attempting to ride off.
Clean, good plugs make a big difference. The voltage is low when cold so the spark is weaker. Dirty plugs make it harder for the spark to travel. If your plugs are old, spring for new ones during this cold weather.
And if you have the time and equipment, +1 on valves. Loose exhaust and intakes in spec seems to be best. If you have the tool do a carb sync - that helps even if you can't do a valve adjustment. If no sync tool, use the "hillbilly" method.
I think new plugs would be the best thing to do first - it is the easiest to do.
In terms of cold starting from best to worst:
PowerMadd E3's
Iridium
Standard
Brisk
Pulstar
Performance when hot and running (tested with WOT burst of power when going 30 mph and 60 mph) and when starting in warmer weather at 50* and above:
Brisk
PowerMadd E3's
Iridium
Standard
Pulstar
the last 3 out of 5 gs' I had I used iridium. never a complaint. NOW, id suggest using a battery tender, and starting bike once a week. let her warm up. course I rode in the winter lol. but also if battery is dead you CAN jump it off your cars battery. BUT the car MUST NOT be running. or it will kill your bikes system. just connect it, as you normally would but leave car shut off.
Deffinently buy a battery tender there 15 bucks. I started mine in 30°f and it turned over instantly after being parked for 2 months also have a full gas tank with stabil in it
A tender does keep a battery warm in the cold weather.
Keep in mind the trick for starting when cold: you drive somewhere and park for a few hours and you're now cold with no battery tender or heater to keep the battery warm.
Practice it at home a few times. Maybe I'll do a video since it is well below freezing here right now.
Quote from: adidasguy on February 06, 2014, 03:48:48 PM
A tender does keep a battery warm in the cold weather.
Keep in mind the trick for starting when cold: you drive somewhere and park for a few hours and you're now cold with no battery tender or heater to keep the battery warm.
Practice it at home a few times. Maybe I'll do a video since it is well below freezing here right now.
The only thing flawed in your battery warming ritual (and I'm not saying it doesn't work) is spinning for 5 seconds and then wasting amperage with the headlights to warm the battery. 3 second spins, no headlights, with the 15-20 second wait interval has never failed me. I would rather use any amperage available for the stater and saturating the coils, the battery is going to warm up by the cranking anyway. I'm pretty sure if my father saw me starting my '64 Plymouth Valiant back in the day in 20° weather, then turning on my headlights before I had it running.....he certainly would have kicked my arsehole up between my shoulder blades. And on another note...when my WR battery dies, I think I'm gunna try a Shorai, because that bike goes off road and the weight savings should be beneficial. :dunno_black:
What you say is OK. On a GS you'd turn the key off during the wait times because we don't have a headlight switch. Sometimes I do that. Then, with headlights on, even though power is being used, that use of power causes the battery to continue warming up due to power being used. Its an "either OR" situation. Headlights off between cranks uses no power so battery starts to cool as what heat there is spreads through the battery; while headlights on keeps some current being used which keeps heating up the battery.
It kind of comes down to what works for your vehicle and battery combination.
LiFe batteries have more recovery and can survive deeper cycles than lead/acid types. Also they are more sensitive to temperatures near freezing.
Technique may vary with type of battery?
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on February 06, 2014, 12:07:51 PM
the last 3 out of 5 gs' I had I used iridium. never a complaint. NOW, id suggest using a battery tender, and starting bike once a week. let her warm up. course I rode in the winter lol. but also if battery is dead you CAN jump it off your cars battery. BUT the car MUST NOT be running. or it will kill your bikes system. just connect it, as you normally would but leave car shut off.
I had to jump the bike off of my GF's car to get it started home. I've always been told that you should never have the car running, so I have always jumped it off the car's battery with the car off.
Thanks for the tip! I've been riding my bike everyday this winter; rain or shine, sleet or snow, and I was just angry that it failed me this morning. Perhaps I failed it by not doing some needed maintenance. She's my first bike and I will have had her a year in April.
Quote from: adidasguy on February 06, 2014, 03:48:48 PM
A tender does keep a battery warm in the cold weather.
Keep in mind the trick for starting when cold: you drive somewhere and park for a few hours and you're now cold with no battery tender or heater to keep the battery warm.
Practice it at home a few times. Maybe I'll do a video since it is well below freezing here right now.
I will definitely look into new spark plugs. I have a list of things that need to be done to my bike, and those will be put on a high priority. I still need a new chain (sprockets, too).
Thanks for your advice. You're amazing.
Quote from: adidasguy on February 06, 2014, 05:33:48 PM
What you say is OK. On a GS you'd turn the key off during the wait times because we don't have a headlight switch. Sometimes I do that. Then, with headlights on, even though power is being used, that use of power causes the battery to continue warming up due to power being used. Its an "either OR" situation. Headlights off between cranks uses no power so battery starts to cool as what heat there is spreads through the battery; while headlights on keeps some current being used which keeps heating up the battery.
It kind of comes down to what works for your vehicle and battery combination.
LiFe batteries have more recovery and can survive deeper cycles than lead/acid types. Also they are more sensitive to temperatures near freezing.
Technique may vary with type of battery?
Yeah...I really do want to try a Shorai, and my previous post was mainly aimed at the using amperage to get amperage...not saying that it doesn't work, the headlight's on to get amperage aspect has always just sounded counter productive to me, even though I understand the reasoning behind it.
Quote from: Xevamir on February 06, 2014, 05:40:36 AM
I'm just having a tough time with my bike this winter. It seems like it never warms up completely, wants to die every time I come to a stop, and this morning it wouldn't turn over at all (I'm thinking it's the battery).
I'm frustrated because I have had the battery on the bike for less than a year. I'm also frustrated because it's my only means of transportation, and I can't really bum a ride to work at 5:30 every morning.
What am I doing wrong here?
All US model GS500's have been lean since day one due to the EPA. Smaller motorcycle battery's unlike larger car battery's are inherently weak/lame/unstable/lose voltage just sitting there/and have considerably less cranking time/and are proportionately larger piles of compost then their larger car/truck counterparts because of their size. Take a lean bike, marginal battery and cold weather and you have your answer. Throw in gas that is anything but fresh and you have the makings for the bulk of this kind of seasonal post.....opps sorry, your bike starts :cheers:
Not to seal the thread but odd question here, now you guys say to never jump the bike off of a running car, however its ok to jump it off of a off that is off? Why is this, in the US most running vehicles are 12v systems, when running you might get to 14v if every thing is working as it should.
The problem is not voltage, it is amperage. The bike has a max of 20A while a car has a much, much higher max Amperage. If the car is running, you are also running the car's charging system which charges at say 30A+ (not exactly sure, but it at least that if not much higher than that) while your bike charges at a much lower amperage... and therefore cannot handle the amperage a running car would put out - you will run the risk of blowing your charging system as I doubt the fuse would catch it before it damages the bikes charging system... and depending on the limits of the bike battery, that could also be very physically dangerous. So, just because something is the same voltage, it doesn't mean they are compatible... in fact voltage is only a tiny a fraction of the story - and a story which belongs to an electrician to tell you about, not myself who just sold wires and electrical equipment for 5 years lol!
- Bboy
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on February 06, 2014, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: Xevamir on February 06, 2014, 05:40:36 AM
I'm just having a tough time with my bike this winter. It seems like it never warms up completely, wants to die every time I come to a stop, and this morning it wouldn't turn over at all (I'm thinking it's the battery).
I'm frustrated because I have had the battery on the bike for less than a year. I'm also frustrated because it's my only means of transportation, and I can't really bum a ride to work at 5:30 every morning.
What am I doing wrong here?
All US model GS500's have been lean since day one due to the EPA. Smaller motorcycle battery's unlike larger car battery's are inherently weak/lame/unstable/lose voltage just sitting there/and have considerably less cranking time/and are proportionately larger piles of compost then their larger car/truck counterparts because of their size. Take a lean bike, marginal battery and cold weather and you have your answer. Throw in gas that is anything but fresh and you have the makings for the bulk of this kind of seasonal post.....opps sorry, your bike starts :cheers:
Yessir, my bike starts right up most days. I have a battery tender on her now.
My bike shouldn't be running lean either. The mixture screws were adjusted less than a year ago. How often should they be adjusted?
I have seen people develop problems when jump starting from running/non-running cars and bikes and when paralleled up with other batteries and booster packs. I have also seen people with the same bikes pull off the same without any damage whatsoever.....so someone explain that :dunno_black:
Jump starting from any source carries a risk. It takes the electrical system outside its `normal` operating parameters so its a question of if the system can cope with the combination of differing and unpredictable changes in voltages/currents/resistances/surges and spikes it might see, either by design or by its age and condition.....and that's a big if :dunno_black:
From experience and from what I have read over the years its the earlier systems, 70s early 80s and the later 2000 on systems that are more prone to failure through jump starting. Probably because the first ones were crude, simple and unreliable and the later ones far more sophisticated and sensitive
GS5s seem to fall in the middle period of design, state of the art at the time but still relatively simple and robust. I have lost count of the number of times I took the chance and jumped one from a running car without issue.......but the car was always ticking over with all lights and accessories off and the bike was disconnected as soon as it fired. I am not promising it will work for you but I would do it again if I had no viable option
Thanks for the experience sledge... I have never done it from a running vehicle on a bike, simply from hearing stories, and I was never that desperate to attempt it. Black variables one can't anticipate from such variance in systems sounds like a viable reason for it working for some without issue and not others.
:cheers:
- Bboy
Make sure your valves are in spec and the carbs are clean. Set the idle a little higher than 1200 and she should purr like a kitten.
Quote from: Twism86 on February 07, 2014, 08:33:22 AM
... she should purr like a kitten.
What GS did you have?! Everything in tip top and stock - sounds like a singer sewing machine LOL :icon_lol:
- Bboy
Quote from: Twism86 on February 07, 2014, 08:33:22 AM
Make sure your valves are in spec and the carbs are clean. Set the idle a little higher than 1200 and she should purr like a kitten.
I'm not sure that I have the required tools to perform those tasks. :embarrassed:
Quote from: BockinBboy on February 07, 2014, 08:37:52 AM
Quote from: Twism86 on February 07, 2014, 08:33:22 AM
... she should purr like a kitten.
What GS did you have?! Everything in tip top and stock - sounds like a singer sewing machine LOL :icon_lol:
- Bboy
Had an '02. You're right, she never sounds THAT good, haha! Ok, purr like a diesel.....
Quote from: BockinBboy on February 07, 2014, 06:48:31 AM
The problem is not voltage, it is amperage. The bike has a max of 20A while a car has a much, much higher max Amperage. If the car is running, you are also running the car's charging system which charges at say 30A+ (not exactly sure, but it at least that if not much higher than that) while your bike charges at a much lower amperage... and therefore cannot handle the amperage a running car would put out - you will run the risk of blowing your charging system as I doubt the fuse would catch it before it damages the bikes charging system... and depending on the limits of the bike battery, that could also be very physically dangerous. So, just because something is the same voltage, it doesn't mean they are compatible... in fact voltage is only a tiny a fraction of the story - and a story which belongs to an electrician to tell you about, not myself who just sold wires and electrical equipment for 5 years lol!
- Bboy
EDIT: Opps, I thought you where refering to my car battery reference...at work, have to read fast, sorry :embarrassed:
My point was...if you left a fully charged MC battery next to a fully charged full sized battery and left them for a few months, the MC battery would go dead from just sitting there, while the car battery would probably start a car. MC batterys...because of their size are whiny little attention whores that will go dead just sitting there, most bike noobs don't understand this, that was what I was trying to stress, and yes voltage is the highway of amperage :cheers:
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on February 07, 2014, 09:42:47 AM.............................My point was...if you left a fully charged MC battery next to a fully charged full sized battery and left them for a few months, the MC battery would go dead from just sitting there, while the car battery would probably start a car. MC batterys...because of their size are whiny little attention whores that will go dead just sitting there, most bike noobs don't understand this, that was what I was trying to stress, and yes voltage is the highway of amperage :cheers:
That pretty well sums up the most likely cause if anyone is having a problem getting started in the winter. I've been riding year around here in NE OH for 30 winters now on 4 Hondas and 2 GSs (one at a time) and have had to jump all of them at least a time or 2 every winter. Most bikes just don't have enough battery for winter use in cold climates.
If your bike doesn't start on it's own, jump it first and most likely it will start immediately confirming the battery was the problem. When it's cold out it takes more amperage to crank the engine (cold heavy oil) and there is just not enough voltage left to fire the ignition spark. If you connect a jumper unit or a non running car battery parallel to your bike battery you just have one big battery if both are 12 V and you won't harm anything unless you hook it up backwards or something like that. The big battery can't push any more amperage to your bike than the starter, lights, etc draw from it.
Examples, I had a CM400A with a kick starter and I could run down the battery to barely a growl was left and then give it one kick and it would start without the starter motor drawing all the amperage and dropping the voltage too low for spark to occur. My GS wouldn't start one very cold day and I ground it down dead, with intermittent starter use Addy. My wife had just left with the car so I pulled the battery, carried it across the street to our apartment, and put it on my 1 amp charger for only an hour and then put it back in the bike and it started right up. Obviously it couldn't get much if any charge in an hour it only just got warmed up. If you have a trickle charger use it in the winter, I don't have electricity in my garage.
If you have cold compression then the valves are not your starting problem. Period. Check compression with the finger over the hole and crank to pop method when you pull your plugs to look at or replace if the battery is not your problem. And lean jetting is not your problem, the mixture is rich enough with full choke to start. I've done all my year around GS riding with untouched completely stock carbs.
Quote from: Xevamir on February 06, 2014, 08:45:58 AM
Also, my front tire keeps losing air somehow. The valve stem is tight, there are no nails in it, and I sprayed water on both sides of the rim and there was no bubbling.
It never ends.
My not even half worn rear tire was giving me more than usual air loss problems last summer and not finding any possible leak point I finally fixed it the old fashion way. Not the Smith Barney way, the fix-a-flat way and it hasn't lost any air since, frowned upon now it was a widely used way for shade tree mechanics to fix rim leaks a half century ago. After run warm a time or two let the fix-a-flat out and refill with fresh air. Rim leaks can be very hard to find even by submerging tire under water.