Hey folks. I am doing some slightly odd stuff to an 06 GS500F I bought for 500 bucks. Any ideas of what problems I might run into with putting a 130/80 tire on the front wheel. This would be purley for cosmetic reasons. Besides the fender/forkbrace hitting do you think the fact of it being on a skinny wheel would be bad?
130/80/17 is an approved fitment on 2.5-3.5" wheels:
http://www.dropbears.com/u/utilities/tyrerim.htm
Thanks for that chart Jack!
While I've used the Dropbears chart many times, I recommend finding a tire manufacturer that makes a 130/80 tire to fit the stock wheel (assuming you're running the stock wheel). I've never looked at 130/80 front tires, but you might have a hard time finding one that will work.
Just a quick check, mostly cruiser front tires:
Avon Cobra 130/80HB-17
Michelin Commander II 130/80H-17
Shinko 705 130/80-17
Pirelli Night Dragon 130/80-17
Shinko 777 130/80-17
Dunlop American Elite 130/80B-17
If you find a 130/80-17 rear you like better just mount it with direction of rotation reversed for front use.
Quote from: gsJack on February 21, 2014, 06:40:07 PM
just mount it with direction of rotation reversed for front use.
And increase the chances of it delaminating under breaking because of the way the layers and belts are overlapped and also reduce its ability to displace water at speed because of the now reversed tread pattern????? Errr........... no thanks, its not a risk I would be prepared to take :o
You have surprised me in making that comment and giving out advice like that Jack, thought you would have known better than to suggest such things
Incidentally the practice of running tyres against the stated direction is illegal here in the UK....and probably other EU countries too
Quote from: sledge on February 22, 2014, 01:42:51 AM
And increase the chances of it delaminating under breaking because of the way the layers and belts are overlapped.....
If you re-read his post; he clearly mentioned using a rear tire on front mounted backwards. The rear tires are layered up to withstand the forces of acceleration, while fronts are designed for braking; so you can reverse a rear and use it on the other end of the bike.
Quote from: gsJack on February 21, 2014, 06:40:07 PM
If you find a 130/80-17 rear you like better just mount it with direction of rotation reversed for front use.
There are three arguments against the practice....
The tread pattern when running reversed may not be as effective at clearing road water....this means a potential loss of traction in the wet, even aquaplaning. THIS IS THE BIGGIE!
The belts when running backward may loosen off and `unwind` under the carcass leading to delamination. Much like wrapping PTFE tape around a pipe fitting in the wrong direction
And the one you mention......front tyres are constructed to handle the stresses seen when braking, rears the stresses seen when accelerating.
These are the reasons why its illegal in EU countries to reverse tyres and it can invalidate insurances in the event of a claim. Although I appreciate not all countries take such a proactive approach to motorcycle safety.
Just about every tyre manufacturer I know of does not recommend running tyres against the direction of intended rotation and when a manufacturer of a product or piece of equipment (including tyres) makes this statement its generally regarded as common sense to follow it......especially when your life could be at stake.
If Jack or indeed yourself want to run on reversed tyres and go against manufacturers advice that's your business not mine :dunno_black:. However Jack is seen as a `tyre guru` in here and if he is going to make suggestions such as this he should also be highlighting the associated risks in the same way he does every time radial and cross-ply mixes are mentioned. Not for your or my benefit, but for the benefit of the inexperienced amongst us who hang on to every word some people say and naively assume it to be gospel.......and to them I say do your own research on the subject, weigh up the risks and make your own mind up.
Quote from: sledge on February 22, 2014, 09:49:55 AMIf Jack or indeed yourself want to run on reversed tyres and go against manufacturers advice that's your business not mine :dunno_black:.
I merely pointed out that aspect since it appeared you were overlooking that Jack suggested a backwards rear on front rather than reversing a front. I personally would not deviate much from the speced tire sizes thus this isn't an issue.
I guess Jack's point was that if the OP can't find a 130/80/17 front tire, he
could run a rear backwards, but as you say tread design would be an important factor to be sure he gets good water expulsion etc.
Os a side note: I've seen posts on touring bike forums about going dark or double-dark on tire configurations for high mileage between tire changes. The first being with a car tire on the rear and the latter also mounting a rear MC tire backwards on the front. It's not what I'd advocate but a lot of people seem to be happy with it.
This is an Avon Roadrider from UK. Does Avon warn you in the UK as to which application front/rear will be the dangerous one when it rains or as to which application front/rear will result in the tread possibly separating at high speeds because of wrong rotational direction? Or could it be these are only amongst many considerations in the design of a tire?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/ForR-Roadrider.jpg)
I don't know what sledge's problem with me is but his constant personal attacks are unacceptable. I am guru of nothing and have never presented myself as such. I've only expressed my opinions based on my own experiences to be helpful but I have wasted far too much of my time here doing so. It's time for everyone to figure it all out for themselves. Personal experience is the best teacher.
Jack.....
This is what Avon UK say.......
http://www.avon-tyres.co.uk/motorcycle/faqs ....... so make your own mind up :dunno_black:
And its not a personal attack...... look at it as an attempt by me to make people think twice before blindly diving into a situation that could ultimately cause them a lot of hurt :thumb:
Yep........ the tyre in the pic is probably an Avon AM26 Roadrunner universal.........I have review that describes it as `an old school tyre designed specifically for front and rear applications. Fine if you are a historic racer or want that classic look but very limited sizes only and years behind when it comes to performance`......hmmmmm
Is every Avon motorcycle tyre reversible?
Or is it safe to assume that because this one style was designed to be reversible every other design is reversible too because it seems to me that not even every AM26 Roadrunner is even reversible, just a few in the whole range :dunno_black:
http://www.avon-tyres.co.uk/motorcycle/roadrider
Quote "Incidentally the practice of running tyres against the stated direction is illegal here in the UK....and probably other EU countries too"
Ah, you blokes in the Eurozone need to get a life!
:laugh:
Quote from: Joolstacho on February 23, 2014, 12:04:20 AM
Quote "Incidentally the practice of running tyres against the stated direction is illegal here in the UK....and probably other EU countries too"
Ah, you blokes in the Eurozone need to get a life!
:laugh:
I guess that's the trade off for having low accident and fatality statistics :dunno_black:
Quote from: sledge on February 22, 2014, 11:06:30 PM
This is what Avon UK say.......
http://www.avon-tyres.co.uk/motorcycle/faqs ....... so make your own mind up :dunno_black:
For those not wanting to click a link I'm quoting it here.
Quote from: Avon Tyre FAQCan I fit a front tyre on the rear and a rear on the front?
Avon would not normally recommend this fitment. If you do this however, due to the way tyres are manufactured, you should reverse the tyre's direction of rotation if you fit a front tyre on the rear or a rear tyre on the front of your bike. During tyre manufacture, a length of tread rubber is wrapped around the carcass and joined together with an angled bevel type joint. This joint is orientated so that as the tyre rotates, this joint stays shut. As the rear tyre provides drive and the front tyre provides braking, the joint is made one way for the rear tyre and the opposite way for the front. Fitting incorrect tyres could cause potential MOT/insurance issues and may affect the bikes handling capabilities.
Avon clearly says that in cases where you need to run a rear tire up front or vice verse (e.g. needing a wider front tire than they make) then it should be mounted with the rotation reversed. Naturally the reversed tread pattern can result in less optimal wet performance or handling, which is why they recommend observing the specified tire position.
So we have determined that AVON do not recommend the practice and few of there tyres are suitable for reversal but those that are, are clearly marked. I don't think that was ever in doubt :dunno_black:
Lets take AVON and their very small range of universal tyres out of the mix because there was no mention of there products in the original post and consider what the other major players say on their websites.
Dunlop.. "Improper mounting can cause tyre explosion and serious injury. Please follow these mounting precautions:...........note directional arrows on sidewall where applicable"
Metzeller.. "Check if the tyre has directional arrows. If it does, you must mount the tyre so that the arrow points in the direction of rotation"
Michelin.. "On tyres for a specific Front or Rear fitment, the rolling direction is usually indicated by an arrow. When fitting the tyre on the bike this arrow must be pointing in the direction of rotation of the tyre"
Bridgestone.. "Mount tyres marked " Front Wheel" on front positions only and tyres marked "Rear Positions" on rear positions only"
Pirelli.. "Check if the tyre has directional arrows, if it does YOU MUST mount the tyre so the arrow points in the direction of rotation"
As the cliché goes.......They all seem to be singing from the same hymn sheet to me :dunno_black:
However.... the advice being given out is....
"If you find a 130/80-17 rear you like better just mount it with direction of rotation reversed for front use"
Its not quite what the makers are saying is it :dunno_black:
Perhaps a better statement would have been
"If you find a 130/80-17 rear you like better just mount it with direction of rotation reversed for front use.....assuming the manufacture says the tyre is suitable for reversal, otherwise you are taking a big risk and could be compromising your personal safety
Oh yeah, lets take any contrary out of the mix and only use what we want to support not taking any 'risk' ... ever. That sounds positively governmental! ...
Come to think of it. Riding is a risk. Best stop that too!
sent by willpower and a phone
What a bunch of bull crap! You all answer next time, I'm not going to bother.
Haven't been here long but I read Jacks post very carefully and appreciate his willingness to share his experience. If he leaves, then this forum is useless to me, it will be too "slu(e)dged" up to be useful.
regards
Mech
Fear not Jack! ... we are behind you and your real world experience :thumb:
.. but i dont know why you bother trying with him? ... google engineering is limitless!! ;)
... i think he was scrabbling though .. 'probably.... potentially' .. bit vague on the EU countries banning things or not...
and now
hey Mr Engineer man!! .. did your UK internet break at that point and you couldnt actually look up what the countries do or dont ban? :flipoff: ..... oh and :D ..................... :D ......................... :D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ... make some personal experience/solution/result contributions eh!! .. all this 'what the manufacturer says' stuff .... looks like youve been let out of the canteen at the mower shop early and got near google again...
kiss my ass!!
see... i make an attack by doing it directly!! .. not with smug 'slightly not mentioned' indirect references to others... you saying you dont attack people is ankle deep in bullshit... headfirst!!
oh and neatus ... choose your tire ... ride with it carefully till you recognise its particular habits ... if its actually not good... then you have learned it directly .. and will be out the cost of another tire ...
but i think perhaps with some care and diligence to its behaviour while its new .. the thick uni-directional rubber will work just fine! :thumb:
Quote from: gsJack on February 23, 2014, 06:15:18 AM
What a bunch of bull crap! You all answer next time, I'm not going to bother.
Jack, thanks for the help. I just wanted to make sure it would fit with the stock wheel. It is for a custom application and is going to look bad ass. I have pretty much no experience with the GS500 so I just needed a quick answer.
While a front/rear tire swap isn't something I'd recommend if you have a good alternative, I have done it a number of times. Both street and racing, and it's always worked fine. Have also run tires I accidentally mounted backwards with no ill effects. :oops:
The main thing I don't see mentioned here... has a front tire of the size been sourced already? If so, it's a non-issue.
As far as I've seen there hasn't been any real
scientific studies done on it either way. Of note, running tread in the reverse direction can also cause vibration issues (and presumably traction/wear issues due to vibrations). I know some Dunlop tires with identical treads have reversed front-to-rear treads because of this.
Or maybe Dunlop is just being cheap and selling the same tire in reverse for the exact application being discussed. :dunno_black:
Quote from: sledge on February 23, 2014, 12:10:41 AMI guess that's the trade off for having low accident and fatality statistics :dunno_black:
Just curious, how many complete idiots do you guys have on your roads and how strenuous is your driver testing? A huge number of our 'motorcyclists' (and drivers as well) have just about zero skill. It's still largely believed in some parts of the US that your should only use your rear brake to slow down and that you should 'lay it down' to avoid having a bad accident. A large portion of the people I know who own bikes also consider 'going riding' getting on the interstate and doing 130+ around cars and can't even take corners at the recommended speeds. :cookoo:
Quote from: Janx101 on February 23, 2014, 07:17:02 PM
hey Mr Engineer man!!.........................kiss my ass!!...................you saying you don't attack people is ankle deep in bullshit... headfirst!!
+1 :thumb:
Enjoying my vacation and expect it to be an extended one. I do look in daily and read a few posts so I don't loose my sense of humor but my typing finger needs a good rest.
Thanks Mech!
On my GS I would run bologna skins if I had to because it has no power. HeII, stretch a 10speed bicycle tire on if it's just for looks. But, I would be hard pressed to be anything but diligent about correct tire specs on high horsepower/high speed bikes. I don't want to go head first into a phone poll at 100mph because my tire went wall-eyed and 99.5mph.
Quote from: neatus on February 21, 2014, 08:50:50 AM
Hey folks. I am doing some slightly odd stuff to an 06 GS500F I bought for 500 bucks. Any ideas of what problems I might run into with putting a 130/80 tire on the front wheel. This would be purley for cosmetic reasons. Besides the fender/forkbrace hitting do you think the fact of it being on a skinny wheel would be bad?
Hi...did you fit the 130 on the front?...if so did you have any issues...rubbing etc..cheers, JB..Rochester, England
Quote from: neatus on February 21, 2014, 08:50:50 AM
Hey folks. I am doing some slightly odd stuff to an 06 GS500F I bought for 500 bucks. Any ideas of what problems I might run into with putting a 130/80 tire on the front wheel. This would be purley for cosmetic reasons. Besides the fender/forkbrace hitting do you think the fact of it being on a skinny wheel would be bad?
It's got to be more than "slightly odd stuff" if a 130 front will improve the looks. :icon_eek:
One thing that will definitely be odd is the steering. Probably not unsafe, but it will feel weird. Not something to do if you care about handling at all.