So...nails suck, right?
I called two bike shops here in the NYC area to see if they do patching (not plugging) and the first told me that it's illegal on NY. I was too taken aback to ask if that was just for bikes or just in NYC. My cursory Googling of the opic only pulled up something about a "Tire Alliance" trying to have a law made against tire repair.
I do know I have had more than one tire plugged on my car here.
Correct, patching, ESPECIALLY bikes is not legal. Not sure why you would risk it anyway...a plug I get, but a patch...I wouldn't even want to consider it on a bike.
I used Triborough Cycles in Greenpoint to repair a nail hole in my rear tire. I believe it was a plug.
How do you "patch" a tubeless tire? There are plug/patch combos..which provide an internal patch as part of the plug. This is what most car places use to fix a puncture such as caused by a nail thru the tread. Generally in cars, sidewall punctures are considered un-repairable.
I have used plain plugs from the auto parts store to repair car tires with great success.
I did once repair a nail puncture on my GS 500 with a plug as well and it held. Luckily that tire was just about shot and I had a new one on order...so I replaced the plugged tire with a new tire.
The theory with motorcycle tires is you just don't take chances with the tires. Having a tire blow at a most inopportune moment could be catastrophic. It is considered that the cost / risk / benefit ratio makes it just not sane to plug or patch a motorcycle tire. No business is going to take on the liability.
Cookie
Quote from: cWj on February 26, 2014, 03:34:14 PM
So...nails suck, right?
I called two bike shops here in the NYC area to see if they do patching (not plugging) and the first told me that it's illegal on NY. I was too taken aback to ask if that was just for bikes or just in NYC. My cursory Googling of the opic only pulled up something about a "Tire Alliance" trying to have a law made against tire repair.
I do know I have had more than one tire plugged on my car here.
Quote from: twocool on February 26, 2014, 05:45:09 PM
How do you "patch" a tubeless tire? There are plug/patch combos..which provide an internal patch as part of the plug. This is what most car places use to fix a puncture such as caused by a nail thru the tread. Generally in cars, sidewall punctures are considered un-repairable.
I have used plain plugs from the auto parts store to repair car tires with great success.
I did once repair a nail puncture on my GS 500 with a plug as well and it held. Luckily that tire was just about shot and I had a new one on order...so I replaced the plugged tire with a new tire.
The theory with motorcycle tires is you just don't take chances with the tires. Having a tire blow at a most inopportune moment could be catastrophic. It is considered that the cost / risk / benefit ratio makes it just not sane to plug or patch a motorcycle tire. No business is going to take on the liability.
Cookie
Quote from: cWj on February 26, 2014, 03:34:14 PM
So...nails suck, right?
I called two bike shops here in the NYC area to see if they do patching (not plugging) and the first told me that it's illegal on NY. I was too taken aback to ask if that was just for bikes or just in NYC. My cursory Googling of the opic only pulled up something about a "Tire Alliance" trying to have a law made against tire repair.
I do know I have had more than one tire plugged on my car here.
agreed. had a nail puncture on my first gs, enroute to ride the devils triangle. patched in napa parking lot. err plugged. it held. tire was on order anyways. but I took it easy. as said no shop will repair a moto tire. you blow one on a cage, essentially youll surtvive. ikts only 25% loss on a bike its 50% plus weight usually goes unto it. making it worse.
Patch, as goes my understanding, is the repair done by breaking the tire from the wheel and repairing from the inside.
Plug is the version performed by reaming out the hole and backward-shoving a goo-covered rubber cord into it.
If tire repair is illegal in general, there several business advertising their illegal activity quite visibly.
so with patching a tubeless tyre......
its essentially the same as patching a tube right except wit ha tube when you mount the tyre again with the tube inflated its is pushing against the tyre wall right
when you patch a tubeless tyre they buff (using an air powered grinder similar to a dremmel at 15,00 rpm) a significant part of the inside of the tyre, glue the patch in place and then cover it in as much "liquid rubber" as possible the result is a patch that holds air when there's no weight applied to to the patched area, through normal driving and cornering the tyre will change shape and there's a greater chance of the patch leaking or coming off entirely, also the method to apply the patch (buffing the inside of the tyre) compromises the tyres build quality and integrity which is why so much liquid rubber is used and as a by product of that you have a tyre that's incredibly out of balance.......
getting them plugged is always a better option but the plugs only work to a point, if the puncture is below 45 degrees in angle then the plugs wont work, you cant plug a sidewall puncture, and if you drive through broken glass and have multiple punctures in a small area then they cant plug them and will have to patch them........
99/100 times I used to recommend getting new tyres as the punctures were on generally f%&ked tyres anyway but people look for a quick fix every time.
if it were me mate I'd get the tyre swapped out especially on a bike as they are put under more stress then car tyres, but its personal choice if your ok riding with a tyre that has an issue.
Quote from: cWj on February 26, 2014, 08:13:43 PM
Patch, as goes my understanding, is the repair done by breaking the tire from the wheel and repairing from the inside.
Plug is the version performed by reaming out the hole and backward-shoving a goo-covered rubber cord into it.
If tire repair is illegal in general, there several business advertising their illegal activity quite visibly.
the plug from the outside is only a temperery fix for people that are offroading for example,
a normal tyre repair plug is glued in form the inside much like a patch but with less buffing and it has a rubber plug that sticks through the puncture and is cut to the length of the tred of the tyre and are completely safe
the patch is legal BUT is generally not worth the time or hassle
a tyre with one of those plugs from the outside SHOULD NOT be driven on longer then is completely necessary
I will stand on the plug side of the arguement all day. when i had my pilot road 2's installed on my SV, I caught a nail in the rear tire about a month later. I was pissed more because of the fact that they were essentially brand new tires, and expensive ones at that. Ran to the store, bought some plugs, set said plug, and went on my way. Those tires were recently replaced after about 2 years and 17,000 for each.
If someone tells you a plug is a temporary fix, don't buy it.
Dry,
I agree with you. If I got a nail in an "almost new" tire...I would plug it. My theory is a plug either "takes" or it doesn't. Every one I had done on a car, or did myself, worked perfectly and the tire lasted.
But, a dealer or mechanic has to look at it differently. He is worried about litigation. If he plugs, he only makes a couple of bucks, and has all the liability. If he sells you a new tire...he makes a few more bucks...and the liability is on the tire manufacturer (mostly).
In my opinion, if a plug "fails"...it is most likely just going to be a slow leak...probably not catastrophic....sure it is a risk...but I am willing to take..
cookie
Quote from: dry_humor on February 28, 2014, 09:23:48 AM
I will stand on the plug side of the arguement all day. when i had my pilot road 2's installed on my SV, I caught a nail in the rear tire about a month later. I was pissed more because of the fast that they were essentially brand new tires, and expensive ones at that. Ran to the store, bought some plugs, set said plug, and went on my way. Those tires were recently replaced after about 2 years and 17,000 for each.
If someone tells you a plug is a temporary fix, don't buy it.
ive worked many years dealing with all sorts of tires, car, truck and motorcycle. first off, it doesnt mater a whole lot the type of tire, , if the hole is in the sidewall you do not repair it.
now, ive done all sorts of repairs to tires in goodshape that have had a run of bad luck. ive pluged holes using supper gummy plugs and rubber cement and ran hard with cornering and had no issues. ive patched tires many times and the correct way to do it is as follows,
break the tire from the rim (mark where the valve stem is on tire) locate the hole, i generaly wedge a chunk of wood between the beads to hold wide as possible so i can work, buff (not grind) an area around the hole just bigger in diameter then the patch.
the idea is to ruff up and increase the surface area the glue has to hold the patch. once buffed, blow air in the tire to remove any crap from buffing, acetone is often used to clean the buffed area. the rubber cement is brushed on and allowed to haze over (now ive dealt with 2 kinds of glue patches, one is just a flat bit of rubber, the other is a hybrid plugPatch both do the same just the plug patch has a nipple of rubber to poke out the hole from inside) the patch is applied and a small roller wheel is used to kinda work out air bubbles to make sure the patch is fully seated. after a few mins the glue is set enough to remount the tire and inflate.
ive plugged, ive run as many as 5 plugs in a tire
ive patched and in some cases double patched.
Then there was the work of art.
(no im not saying you should do this, its just what i did and how i did it)
i had a pirelli dragon on the rear of my GS that someone decided to break a knife off in it with only 50 miles on it. i mean i could stick my finger through it was so big. being mostly broke, i brushed a bit of glue in the cut edges, ruffed up the inside around the cut,cleaned it very well, glued a patch alittle bit bigger then the cut, rolled it, then coated that patch in glue and placed a bigger patch over the first and coated that with glue. once the glue was perfectly set i bought a 17"x3.00" inner tube for 5$ and installed it. i ran that tire down to the cords and the split never once opened on me.
I prefer a patch over a plug anyday, the plugs are ok, and fast to install, but if you have to ream the hole you take a chance on breaking the wire in the belts and ive had belts start to seporate within the tire causing a bulge in the tread.