Im wondering if anyone on here has bothered going aftermarket with the front and rear roters are there any prefered disks that anyone has? Same with the SS braided lines
Any reputable SS line is a good improvement; you can expect better feel out of the brakes.
I highly recommend upgrading to a high temp brake fluid. 500 degree or higher boiling point.
If you have the older (pre 08, I think?) calipers, a SV caliper is a nice improvement at a low price. I recommend replacing the seals and cleaning the piston out when you get it.
Pads are a huge improvement. I'm a strong proponent of the EBC EPFA (Extreme Pro) pads. Endurance racing pads can easily handle the higher temps of a single rotor setup.
I never upgraded the rotor on my GS; cost is high, and the stock one works okay. In the past, I've run waive rotors on other bikes for a nice improvement in braking power and rotor life.
FWIW, brakes must absolutely be maintained. But suspension is the first and most important upgrade.
I got an EBC wave rotor for the front. Once in a while I'll get a pretty bad vibration when going from heavy braking to very light braking-not sure if it's caused by the rotor or not though.
Quote from: burning1 on March 21, 2014, 05:57:12 PM
Any reputable SS line is a good improvement; you can expect better feel out of the brakes.
I highly recommend upgrading to a high temp brake fluid. 500 degree or higher boiling point.
If you have the older (pre 08, I think?) calipers, a SV caliper is a nice improvement at a low price. I recommend replacing the seals and cleaning the piston out when you get it.
Pads are a huge improvement. I'm a strong proponent of the EBC EPFA (Extreme Pro) pads. Endurance racing pads can easily handle the higher temps of a single rotor setup.
I never upgraded the rotor on my GS; cost is high, and the stock one works okay. In the past, I've run waive rotors on other bikes for a nice improvement in braking power and rotor life.
Cheers mate im looking at HEL braded lines dont know if there reputable they are though? Was looking at some disks but think they are more for looks then function, i didnt even think of better brake fluid, good idea is it worth swapping a race style pad in fpr track days and then swapping normal ones back in when finished or just keep the racing pads in?
Ive got a set of springs on the way and emulators, im still not sure what to do with the rear though, ive asked a couple workshops whats what and there going.to get back to me with some optipns
If anyone knows how to get rid of the rear brake squeal, that would be the ultimate GS brake mod. :bowdown:
Quote from: dinkydonuts on March 21, 2014, 08:23:23 PM
If anyone knows how to get rid of the rear brake squeal, that would be the ultimate GS brake mod. :bowdown:
Ive never had mine squeal
Quote from: TheOzTurkish on March 21, 2014, 08:20:26 PMCheers mate im looking at HEL braded lines dont know if there reputable they are though? Was looking at some disks but think they are more for looks then function, i didnt even think of better brake fluid, good idea is it worth swapping a race style pad in fpr track days and then swapping normal ones back in when finished or just keep the racing pads in?
Ive got a set of springs on the way and emulators, im still not sure what to do with the rear though, ive asked a couple workshops whats what and there going.to get back to me with some optipns
HEL is reputable. I'd shy away from no-name on ebay. Any recognizable brand should be fine.
EBC ExtremePro is an endurance racing pad. I run it on all of my bikes, street and track. There are alternatives on the market, such as the Vesra SRJL. Endurance pads last forever, tend to be gentle on the rotors. They provide greater stopping power than conventional HH pads, and more linear response. I highly recommend them for all bikes, street and track.
The GS500 rear shock is compatible with newer Yamaha R6 shocks. You need 2008+ R6 with the upper eye and lower clevis mount. OEM Yamaha shocks work. I suspect any after-market will work. If you're going to go after-market, get a remote reservoir shock (more clearance, useful if you ever do a swingarm swap.) You'll need the OEM Yamaha bolt and spacer. Other than that, it's a bolt on upgrade, and pretty much perfect for our bikes.
For rotors, the Galfer Wave rotor is nice. EBC makes some nice after-market rotors as well, if pairing the pad and rotor is important to you.
R6S shocks will not work, BTW. Only newer R6 shocks.
Quote from: dinkydonuts on March 21, 2014, 08:23:23 PM
If anyone knows how to get rid of the rear brake squeal, that would be the ultimate GS brake mod. :bowdown:
Easy peasy. Put a blob of thick grease between the piston and brake pad (of course, be sure to keep it off the working surface of the pad and rotor)
Sorry I am not trying to hijack the thread but two quick questions... will the R6 shock mentioned above change the ride height at all? And for the EPFA brake pads, what are the correct part numbers for front and rear?
Quote from: burning1 on March 21, 2014, 09:06:40 PM
Quote from: TheOzTurkish on March 21, 2014, 08:20:26 PMCheers mate im looking at HEL braded lines dont know if there reputable they are though? Was looking at some disks but think they are more for looks then function, i didnt even think of better brake fluid, good idea is it worth swapping a race style pad in fpr track days and then swapping normal ones back in when finished or just keep the racing pads in?
Ive got a set of springs on the way and emulators, im still not sure what to do with the rear though, ive asked a couple workshops whats what and there going.to get back to me with some optipns
HEL is reputable. I'd shy away from no-name on ebay. Any recognizable brand should be fine.
EBC ExtremePro is an endurance racing pad. I run it on all of my bikes, street and track. There are alternatives on the market, such as the Vesra SRJL. Endurance pads last forever, tend to be gentle on the rotors. They provide greater stopping power than conventional HH pads, and more linear response. I highly recommend them for all bikes, street and track.
The GS500 rear shock is compatible with newer Yamaha R6 shocks. You need 2008+ R6 with the upper eye and lower clevis mount. OEM Yamaha shocks work. I suspect any after-market will work. If you're going to go after-market, get a remote reservoir shock (more clearance, useful if you ever do a swingarm swap.) You'll need the OEM Yamaha bolt and spacer. Other than that, it's a bolt on upgrade, and pretty much perfect for our bikes.
For rotors, the Galfer Wave rotor is nice. EBC makes some nice after-market rotors as well, if pairing the pad and rotor is important to you.
Word cheers exactly the info i was after, i dunno what the shops are planning they said it would be best if it was rebuildable so im guessng they'll reccomend after market but we'll see should be good once its finished
Standard forks are shocking ive never riden anythin that dives on the front like the gs ... I just dont want to keep throwing money at this thing.
Also brakes are some of the worst ive had aswell very little feel and braking power sucks
If it wasnt for engine braking id have been in trouble a few times. But again i really dont want to keep throwing money at this thing to make it the way suzuki should have . . .
Quote from: Crasm on March 22, 2014, 02:57:49 AM
Standard forks are shocking ive never riden anythin that dives on the front like the gs ... I just dont want to keep throwing money at this thing.
Also brakes are some of the worst ive had aswell very little feel and braking power sucks
If it wasnt for engine braking id have been in trouble a few times. But again i really dont want to keep throwing money at this thing to make it the way suzuki should have . . .
I was suprised how cheap the sonic spings were for the improvement they give but if they made the bike better it would cost more new.
I had a look at the EBC page it seems none of there disks are compatable with there pads :(
Quote from: joweaver88 on March 22, 2014, 12:19:42 AM
Sorry I am not trying to hijack the thread but two quick questions... will the R6 shock mentioned above change the ride height at all? And for the EPFA brake pads, what are the correct part numbers for front and rear?
I don't know that there's an EPFA fitment for the rear. I use a standard HH pad on the rear, and to be honest when I was racing, I had the OEM on there, since I so rarely used it.
89-95 calipers get EPFA129HH
96-2010 calipers get EPFA231HH
http://www.unitedparts.us/AppCharts/EBC%20USA%20MC%202011.pdf
The R6 shock is close enough to standard ride height that I didn't notice a difference. It's been a while since I checked the lengths, and my memory isn't very good.
Quote from: Crasm on March 22, 2014, 02:57:49 AM
Standard forks are shocking ive never riden anythin that dives on the front like the gs ... I just dont want to keep throwing money at this thing.
Also brakes are some of the worst ive had aswell very little feel and braking power sucks
If it wasnt for engine braking id have been in trouble a few times. But again i really dont want to keep throwing money at this thing to make it the way suzuki should have . . .
You say that, but it's actually kind of surprising how shitty most bikes are setup from the factory. Almost every sport bike I've owned required spring swaps, valving, and a lot of tuning to get it setup correctly. I almost always end up doing SS lines, EPFA pads, and a brake fluid change. The ergos almost always require modification.
We're actually kind of lucky... The R6 shock is cheap, and nearly perfect. The front isn't very hard to improve.
I think the GS brakes are very good for a bike in it's price class and anyone who thinks they are amongst the worst must have bought a used high mileage GS with under par brakes. :dunno_black: I traded a 85 CB650SC with dual front discs and drum rear in on my new 97 GS and the GS brakes were as good as the Nighthawks and better than the 3 previous Hondas I had with single disc/drum for sure.
My GS has dual discs, one in the front and one in the back. :icon_lol: Use all three brakes all the time, front, rear, and engine. The GS rear disc is noticeably larger than a 600 sport bikes rear disc because it's usable. Need to upgrade to at least HH pads on the front but best to keep FF pads on the rear at least until you get a good feel for the rear. Later model GSs came with that combo. I used a couple sets of HH pads on the rear of my 02 GS and they really brake. Hard to beat a good rear brake when your into a corner too hot, has much the same stabilizing affect as a little throttle does in a corner without picking up speed.
Just my opinions of course.
Gsjack - my bike has 14000 miles im the second owner from new with full documented suzuki service and repair history.
Must just be me . . . My last 3 bikes have been all 600 and 1000cc supersports bikesand i had no complaints about the way they stopped or handled.
My last bike was a cbr1000 so maybe im bias ?! Compared to that the gs suspension and braking suck but as said its good for its price maybe i am looking outside the box a little to much for the type of bike the gs is and its price tag .
Its easier to transition upto a supersports than move back down from one thats for sure
Quote from: Crasm on March 23, 2014, 05:30:14 AM
Gsjack - my bike has 14000 miles im the second owner from new with full documented suzuki service and repair history.
Must just be me . . . My last 3 bikes have been all 600 and 1000cc supersports bikesand i had no complaints about the way they stopped or handled.
My last bike was a cbr1000 so maybe im bias ?! Compared to that the gs suspension and braking suck but as said its good for its price maybe i am looking outside the box a little to much for the type of bike the gs is and its price tag .
Its easier to transition upto a supersports than move back down from one thats for sure
Theres your problem this isnt a supersport, hell it isnt even a sport bike.
Its a budget commuter, tourer, light, flickable, sewing machine
Crasm,
Once you do the suspension and brake work, the bike is amazing. The GS has a surprisingly good frame compared to most of the budget bikes. It's lighter weight and lower speeds mean that the suspension works better than a super-sport.
When setup properly, the GS500 is insanely confidence inspiring - my best laptimes are on the GS; I haven't been able to beat those times on my BMW or my wife's CBR. My trackday videos are out there if you doubt what the GS is capable of.
Quote from: burning1 on March 23, 2014, 07:47:24 PM
Crasm,
Once you do the suspension and brake work, the bike is amazing. The GS has a surprisingly good frame compared to most of the budget bikes. It's lighter weight and lower speeds mean that the suspension works better than a super-sport.
When setup properly, the GS500 is insanely confidence inspiring - my best laptimes are on the GS; I haven't been able to beat those times on my BMW or my wife's CBR. My trackday videos are out there if you doubt what the GS is capable of.
Awesome, I would like to see these video! :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gymLfLw654Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj1g2TgYmQU <-- I'm on #857, lined up to the front right of the camera bike.
niiiiice burning1 !! .... in the straights against the 600's meh!? ... but you and that machine are corner monsters!! :icon_mrgreen: :thumb: :bowdown:
not been on a track myself.... and dont try riding anywhere NEAR that pace .... but now i feel positively ....
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-khcydWlFc1k/TrEohC6JXiI/AAAAAAAAACs/SNZs5FRjeJE/s1600/bikesquare.jpg) :icon_rolleyes:
edit.... bahahahah ... wait... theres a video! :icon_mrgreen:
+1 burning1 Very nice.
When I rode that Nighthawk over to the dealer about 40 miles from home it was a cold day in March. It was about 38F when I started home on the new 97 GS a day I still remember. After finally adjusting to it's leaness and getting it warmed up I hit moderately hilly twisty River Road and cut loose. It felt lik a sportbike right out of the box compared to the NH and I've been sold on GS handling for the 15 years and 180k miles I've been riding them since. :thumb:
Quote from: burning1 on March 23, 2014, 08:28:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gymLfLw654Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj1g2TgYmQU <-- I'm on #857, lined up to the front right of the camera bike.
That is some wicked shaZam!, howd you get it so far over
Confidence that comes with knee sliders? ... And just him knowing how I reckon!! :thumb:
Quote from: Janx101 on March 24, 2014, 01:38:52 AM
Confidence that comes with knee sliders? ... And just him knowing how I reckon!! :thumb:
True that, would be fun though and to see the looks on some of the big boys faces at the local track
Quote from: TheOzTurkish on March 24, 2014, 12:38:44 AM
That is some wicked shaZam!, howd you get it so far over
The GS500 grips surprisingly well once the basic suspension upgrades are complete. The right tires, tire pressures, and the right surface are also pretty key (racetrack pavement is grippier than street pavement.) At those lean angles, the most critical thing is to relax on the bike and let it do it's thing. Most of the time, when theres a crash, it was caused by the rider and not the bike.
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/ctbarbour/1010_6209.jpg) (http://s261.photobucket.com/user/ctbarbour/media/1010_6209.jpg.html)
What's the blue bottle thing just above the belly pan?
It's a Dasani water bottle. Was a baby bottle before that, but the baby bottle fell off. I found the Dasani bottle in the trash.
...
If you look closely, you'll see some drain tubes leading into it.
Saw the tubes.... But.... Drain tubes? ... It's a pee bottle? :confused:
How long you racing?
Amazing riding, I'd really like to see this guy on 600.....I guess it would be dumb because he would be lapping every one
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You'd think that, but I'm slower when I ride a 600. A lot of it comes down to confidence and setup.
Just out of curiosity, do you feel if you put as much time and effort into the suspension/setup on a 600 as you did on the gs500 that you'd still be faster and more comfortable on the gs?
I have no hard evidence to back this up, but going by appearances, it appears that the GS500 has a significantly lower center of gravity than a supersport (600, 750, or 1000). The engine on the GS is very low slung, almost like it is hanging there. Supersports have their (heavier) engine mounted higher and the fuel tank sits behind or in front of the motor... and of course the actual fuel tank is a plastic fuel cell under the cover, but half of whats underneath the cover is just more engine. The higher center of gravity would make changing the lean angle of the bike (I am sure there is a correct scientific term for that) much quicker, but the lower center of gravity on the GS would give you more stability at all angles, especially extreme knee dragging angles.
I am probably wrong though. :icon_mrgreen:
I'd imagine it would be the opposite, going in quicker but being less 'stable' in turns. Lower center of gravity means the 'pivot' point is lower... you'd have to move the bottom of the bike less distance to get the same lean angle. Then the lack of 'stability' could be compensated for with rake/trail.
But of course I have very little experience in this field so anything I say is 100% conjecture. Perhaps someone with a background in this stuff can chime in.
Quote from: Badot on March 24, 2014, 10:48:49 PM
I'd imagine it would be the opposite, going in quicker but being less 'stable' in turns. Lower center of gravity means the 'pivot' point is lower... you'd have to move the bottom of the bike less distance to get the same lean angle. Then the lack of 'stability' could be compensated for with rake/trail.
But of course I have very little experience in this field so anything I say is 100% conjecture. Perhaps someone with a background in this stuff can chime in.
The amount you move the bike would be constant, its not as thought the frame is a noodle, it is solid therefore if you have two bikes with the similar frame geometries the bottom of each bike will move the same amount to produce the same lean in angle. However the way in which it behaves will be different... imagine a pendulum and then an upside down pendulum and think how they would behave if the pivot point was at the bottom (the tires of a bike are the pivot point). The pendulum with the weight at the bottom (the GS500) would take more force to push over, however it would right itself and bounce right back, making it very stable. However the pendulum with the weight at the top (supersport) would push over very quickly with very little force and would carry the momentum with it all the way until you stop it or it flops over (laying the bike down and going for a slide). Conversely a bike with a higher center of gravity would be more difficult to bring back to the upright position hence why it would be less stable.
However this is not taking into consideration the gyro effect... so i dont know, but I think my simplification is accurate.
Doing some rough 'math' in my head... this is why I hate physics... I'm beginning to feel that it would mainly be a question of rotational inertia rather than center of mass. Beyond my willing level of thought at the moment :cookoo:
One of my trains of thought right now... Properly leaning requires traction on the front wheel... I think this can be agreed on. Let's say one bike has a center of gravity 1 foot off the ground, and one has a center of gravity of 2 feet off the ground. Lean a bike to 30 degrees off the ground, and you've halved the height of the center of gravity (trigonometry) -- the 1' COG bike has to lower its COG by .5 feet to transition from upright to leaned, and the 2' COG bike has to lower its COG by 1 foot to go from upright to leaned. The only thing pulling the bike down is gravity... so is it quicker to 'fall' half a foot, or a foot? ('falling' is required to keep the front wheel traction)
I think you are conceptualizing this incorrectly... but we are starting to hi-jack the thread. It all comes down to the bike acting like a lever to move its own weight.... here read this, it supports my interpretation (high CG equals faster/easier turn in but less stability... low CG equals slower/harder turn in but more stability).
http://motorcycletripper.com/?page_id=379420
Quote from: joweaver88 on March 24, 2014, 10:20:15 PM
I have no hard evidence to back this up, but going by appearances, it appears that the GS500 has a significantly lower center of gravity than a supersport (600, 750, or 1000). The engine on the GS is very low slung, almost like it is hanging there. Supersports have their (heavier) engine mounted higher and the fuel tank sits behind or in front of the motor... and of course the actual fuel tank is a plastic fuel cell under the cover, but half of whats underneath the cover is just more engine. The higher center of gravity would make changing the lean angle of the bike (I am sure there is a correct scientific term for that) much quicker, but the lower center of gravity on the GS would give you more stability at all angles, especially extreme knee dragging angles.
I am probably wrong though. :icon_mrgreen:
A lower center of gravity will make the bike feel lighter and easier to manage at low speeds. You'll be less likely to drop the bike.
For a race bike, you want the mass centralized. When turning aggressively, the bike turns around the center of mass; the wheels actually move to the outside of the turn, and the top moves to the inside. If you watch race videos, you can see this behavior. Mass centralization makes the bike a little easier to turn.
A higher center of gravity also slightly increases ground clearance, due to the way the contact patch moves across the tire. in a turn, the contact patch isn't under the center of the bike; it moves to the inside edge of the tire. Installing wider tires has the same effect.
So stainless steel brake lines then :wink:
Quote from: TheOzTurkish on March 26, 2014, 02:59:13 PM
So stainless steel brake lines then :wink:
Yep. Less lever travel, better feel. IMO, the front is critical; the rear optional. I have a SS rear line that I never bothered installing.
How much would you expect to pay for stainless lines and what brand would you recommend
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Quote from: pomme123 on March 27, 2014, 01:21:34 AM
How much would you expect to pay for stainless lines and what brand would you recommend
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Im looking at HEL lines and there about $130 front and $55 rear or somthing
$60 per line is typical. Since the GS500 is a single caliper front, I wouldn't plan to pay more than $120 total.
FWIW, if you're on a budget, I'd avise you to leave the rear stock. $60 is better spent on springs, better front pads, etc. I'd swap in SS on the rear as a maintenance item.
For the rear brakes, the most important adjustment is to set the lever height. Reducing the lever height will tend to reduce the amount of force applied to the rear. Get it low enough that you no longer tend to over-apply the brake.
Make sure the rear is working correctly; not dragging... Not ruined by oil. Clean fluid. Line not about to fail, etc.