Three months without a ride, the longest I've gone in my 30 years of riding. But the horrible winter just past and my advancing years grounded me until Tuesday when I headed out on my first ride of this season. Only got about 10 miles and when I coasted up to a stop it started to knock, blipped it a couple times and it was a pretty good knock so I turned for home and it didn't knock at all above 2-3k rpm so only heard it at stops.
Started checking it out yesterday. Thoughts were of common GS problems like goats or balancer shaft bearings, I dismissed rod and main bearing noises since I know from 65 years of driving and working on cars what they sound like. Could be bad piston slap, nearing 100k miles on it I heard some last summer when slowly passing a row of garages coming home hot and a change of oil from 15-40 to 20-50 quieted that down.
Decided to check out goats first after checking compression which popped as good as ever, I'm an experienced finger over the hole test man. :icon_lol: Removed lower left case cover and everything looked good as new. Rotor tight on crank and all magnets tight as new. There was about a mm of axial free play of the gear attached to the sprag clutch hub part that I wondered about? Prabably OK, that thing just sits there with the crank spinning inside it after startup. All teeth on gears looked good including the little one on the starter motor shaft which can be seen from there.
Wonder now if I should put the left cover back on and fill it with oil again so I can run it to test further or try to check out the balancer bearing possibility first. Read in a couple posts that I can remove right side clutch covers and reach in and grab the balancer shaft and try to shake it to check bearing, is this true? Anyone check it that way? The right side is the gear side of the balancer assembly and most likely first bearing to fail?
Probably take a week to get new gaskets to put it together right but a little Permatex on the left cover should hold to get it going for further checking for now, I'm not considering pulling the engine and splitting the cases to check bearings, bike is too old with too many miles on it to spend the summer doing that. Replacement would be better option for me.
Edit: Forgot to mention the knock did sound like it was coming from the bottom end to me and did seem like it was a little louder from the left side but I do probably have the oldest ears on this board. :dunno_black:
Cam chain tensioner is my guess ...
In 6th gear with the plugs out turn the rear wheel while looking @ the cam chain between the sprokets. If you see sag that = tensioner is going.
Cool.
Buddha.
Pull the rotor, my starter clutch was making that nose due to being locked up and jumping, I don't think there was any play in the rotor either
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Quote from: The Buddha on April 03, 2014, 11:25:40 AM
Cam chain tensioner is my guess ...
In 6th gear with the plugs out turn the rear wheel while looking @ the cam chain between the sprokets. If you see sag that = tensioner is going.
Cool.
Buddha.
Put the left case covers back on with a light coat of green Permatex on the old very hard gasket, put in a new set of plugs, and filled it with fresh Rotella 15W-40 and fired it up today. Knock isn't as loud as it was but still there of course since I haven't done anything that would fix it yet. No oil leaks though. :thumb:
Was going to check the top end next so I'll have valve cover off to check valves and can check the CCT like you suggest while it's open. Been 3 years and 15k miles since I checked valves, geez I use to go 15-20k miles a year on my GSs. I do remember what cam chain noise sounded like from my old Hondas that didn't have auto adjusters and haven't heard that noise on the GS.
Still not sure if I'll try to check balancer bearings thru the right side covers.
Quote from: robfriedenberger on April 03, 2014, 12:57:07 PM
Pull the rotor, my starter clutch was making that nose due to being locked up and jumping, I don't think there was any play in the rotor either
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I buttoned the left side back up today Rob and got it running again before I saw your post. I really checked that starter clutch as best I could though. When I first came home with the knock I shut it off and restarted it repeatedly and it fired up so fast I couldn't hear the starter turning and released every time. Then after I had it opened up I grabbed the big gear on the back of the rotor and turned it ccw and it turned the crank and then cw and it turned free and did that repeatedly and it all seemed to be working OK. Hope I didn't miss anything, thanks for the input.
Opened the top end today to check out the cam chain tensioner and no problem there, looks good to me. Turned engine over with wrench on crank with plugs out a number of times even reversing it a bit from time to time and no slack in top run between cam sprockets. Looks same as it has for the last 100k miles. :thumb:
Said after my last valve check 3 years and about 15k miles ago that it would be my last check. With the new wider gaps on the exhaust valves they were holding settings as good as the intakes. But with it opened up I had to check them to confirm. All good all around, both intakes still at .003" clearance and both exhausts about .001" tighter to .004" on left and .003" on right. They got a long way to go before they need shims again!
http://www.gs500.net/gallery/data/500/GSvalvelogs.jpg
Will button it up tomorrow and take it for a ride before deciding what to do next, might just get some ear plugs and keep on going. :icon_lol: It did knock less and sound quieter after I checked out the goats possibility and the starter drive and put in fresh oil and new plugs a couple days ago.
Its possible that the CCT was sitting in 1 spot but the first ride got it warmed up and shaken loose.
You think it could be the cam shaft side play ?
Cool.
Buddha.
I had the camshaft side play knock on both my 97 and 02 GSs at one time but haven't heard it for years now. The knock I heard this past week was at a frequency similar to an engine bearing knock and the cam knock is at a much lower frequency. The cam knock being only when hot, only at idle, and goes away when speed is picked up to a fast idle or faster part of it is similar though. I'll take a look at current camshaft side play before I button it up.
Some interesting thoughts on GS high mileage (100k) engine wear, when I pulled the valve cover I noticed the cam lobes looked very dry and the pockets in the head where they dip in the oil were only half full of oil and I have always noted they were full previously indicating little or no valve seal leakage after sitting overnight. When I started turning the engine over with a wrench the cam lobes immediately came up wet so enough oil for that I think.
Also I would from time to time crank the engine with the cover off to observe top end oil flow. It was only a short time with the engine spinning free with the plugs out until the oil would spill over the front edge of the head if not watched carefully indicating ample oil flow even at cranking speeds. With 100k miles on it now the pockets were not filling fully with a lot of cranking but I soon noticed oil was coming out the ends of the camshafts thru the worn bearing journals instead. Probably accounts for the half full pockets more than seal leakage does.
Rod bearing knock usually starts on shut throttle, not on open throttle.
Cool.
Buddha.
So did you ever get this figured out ?
I finished with it yesterday for now Rob but won't get a chance to ride it until tomorrow, was going to post on it again after the ride. Family Easter dinner today, daughter who took over having the family dinners when she became the grandma 11 years ago has to work next weekend and our 2 oldest great grandchildren will be up from Pittsburg this weekend.
I first checked out goats and starter drive and put in fresh oil and new plugs and the knock has only been half as loud since then. Next had the top open to check CCT, valve clearance, and camshaft side play. Based on piston slap I first heard last summer and quieted with 20-50 oil then I tried to check piston knock next.
On multi cylinder engines piston slap can usually be isolated by pulling off plug wires one at a time and knock will stop when knocking cylinder is not firing. Not as definitive on a twin but still effective I think, when I pulled off #1 wire the idle dropped from 11-1200 rpm to about 500 rpm and knock was subdued, when I pulled off #2 wire the idle dropped to same 500 rpm and knock probably on firing #1 cyl was louder and pronounced. Based on engine keeping on running on either cyl only at reduced rpm I think valves are still in good shape but knock is coming from #1 piston.
So I'll ride it and see tomorrow, I did find that knock was considerably reduced with idle speed increased to 1500 rpm. It was gone above 2k or so when I first rode it home knocking last week so if I never stop again I won't hear it again until it blows. :icon_lol:
Edit: Forgot to cover plug condition. Prior to last week I had previously last changed plugs at 96.8k miles and plugs came out quite black from excess oil. Before that the plugs had always been a nice light beige or gray color and all replacements were the stock DPR8EA9 so I put in one grade hotter DPR7EA9 plugs then and they came out less black now 4k miles later. The 2nd set of DPR7EA9 plugs I put in last week having been run in the garage off and on for a week now were beginning to blacken also with the one from #1 cyl being considerably darker than the other confirming it is that cyl that has looser piston/rings and is the knocker.
I ran a GS to the point where it used a quart of 60 wt in 300 miles. It still didn't piston slap.
Yea it got goats @ about 45k, it ate the crank trigger @ 35, it destroyed lots of things ... but not got piston slap. I almost think this bike can not get piston slap.
Cool.
Buddha.
Try using a stethoscope to figure out where the sound is coming from?
With the symptoms you describe, Jack, it sounds like you might have a cracked ring land and possibly broken rings too. That would explain the changing noise (with load) and the change of plug colour (color). It is not uncommon on old pistons. Piston slap is usually caused by excessive skirt to bore clearance and (almost) disappears when warm as the skirt expands. There is a fair chance that a big rev could see the piston crown separate from the rest of it.
Macka
Piston slap is pretty easy to diagnose by ear isn't it... (screwdriver stethoscope method). As is valve clearances.
(I've harped on about this before), -check the starter clutch drum. If the bolts that mount it to the back of the flywheel rotor come loose like mine did it, -the sound is somewhere between a rattle (like valves) or knock (like big-ends/mains). More of a 'clanky' sound. it was hard to diagnose by ear.
Quote from: prmas on April 14, 2014, 12:23:31 AM
With the symptoms you describe, Jack, it sounds like you might have a cracked ring land and possibly broken rings too. That would explain the changing noise (with load) and the change of plug colour (color). It is not uncommon on old pistons. Piston slap is usually caused by excessive skirt to bore clearance and (almost) disappears when warm as the skirt expands. There is a fair chance that a big rev could see the piston crown separate from the rest of it.
Macka
Thanks for the input Macka. I was thinking of an old high mileage flat head 42 Ford V8 that I had decades ago which broke a piston that way as I took what will probably be my last ride on the 02 GS yesterday. Kept the speed and revs down and it still runs as good as new as it has for 100k miles and the knock at idle up to 2k rpm or so is constant cold or hot and it should quiet down as the engine heats up like you say if it was piston slap. Broken rings and/or lands makes sense, the oil I filled up to the top of the dipstick flat with fresh 10-40 last week could not be reached after my short 20-30 mile ride until I screwed it down to barely reach the hot oil. Got a couple more things to check today or tomorrow before I pronounce it dead. :cry:
I opened the lower left covers first and checked the alternator and starter drive, all looked good in that area. Next the top was opened to check CCT, valve lash, and camshafts side play. All good in there too, thanks for the input, Jools.
Wouldn't a rebore to 0.5 mm over with new pistons and rings fix the issue? I'm guessing you are saying it's dead since it's not worth the investment into a 100k mile engine.
Even if you pronounce it dead, can I request an autopsy, possibly alongside a video or some form of recording of the noise? Always good to have more info on potential issues.
My Tracfone doesn't make vids with sound. I had the head and cyls off to repair a broken exhaust valve caused by a tight bucket back about 9 years ago and it didn't seem like a tough job then but it seems much more difficult now. Doubt I'll pull the head again but would like to see in there myself, maybe?
I checked the oil hot twice yesterday after the ride sitting on the bike holding it vertical and stick didn't reach the oil so I checked it again screwing it down and dipstick just reached the oil. When I checked it again today cold the oil level was down a bit from the top of the flat where it was after last weeks refill to the F letter above the full mark, not nearly as much oil lost as I thought on my short ride. Haven't figured that one out yet.
Warmed it up again today and pulled plug wires one at a time and it still idles at reduced 6-700 rpm on either cylinder alone. With left wire pulled the knock quiets down a bit and with the right one pulled it knocks loud and sharp, much louder than when on both cylinders at 11-1200 rpm. Looking for a stethoscope to have a good listen to it while doing that.
Took another ride yesterday to listen to it and it wouldn't be too bad to just ride as is but still afraid it might breakdown and leave me stranded so same reduced speeds and revs and kept it close to home. Picked up a cheapo mechanics stethoscope from Harbor Freight while out and went home to listen to it with scope while hot.
Very interesting, listened with scope probe all around both cylinders and heard running noises not heard without scope but didn't hear the knock coming from either cylinder thru the scope but it was always in the back ground. Pulled both plug wires one at a time with little or no knock thru scope but the loud sharp knock heard when the #2 wire is pulled was there in the background. Could be it's more related to the big drop on idle speed when running on one cylinder.
Beginning to think maybe the knock isn't coming from either cylinder but maybe it's the counterbalance bearing knock which I haven't checked yet. Possibly related is oil leakage, I had a minor drip on garage floor from the left lower housing that was gone after I put it back on with Permatex. But all of a sudden the oil is dripping quite a large amount from the right side cover and when I looked underneath there was a lot of accumulated minor leakage on the bottom of the cover and adjacent block area so it's been seeping for a long time and just started leaking worse.
I'll probably pull the right side covers the first of the week to have a look around and maybe get them sealed up when putting back on. Still haven't heard from anyone that's experienced the balance shaft knock which I've never heard unless this is it. Does it knock at idle only or at higher speeds only or whatever, acceleration or deceleration?
CB noise will be unrelated to engine load, acceleration and most anything else I would think.
Cool.
Buddha.
It could be bearing knock (CB shaft or Crank) due to low oil pressure. Of course it will be more pronounced as the revs drop and the pressure does too but it should not change side to side with the leads off. Have you tested the oil pressure? If you don't have a pressure gauge but do have some really thick engine oil you could try that to see if the knock is less pronounced. If it is quieter it would confirm excessive bearing clearance somewhere.I don't remember from earlier posts if you said that it changed from cold engine to hot or not. Again, obviously it should be less noticeable when cold and the oil is thick than when hot and thin.
As for the oil level check, the standard test for oil level in a car engine is: run the engine until normal oil temperature is reached (drive normally for at least 20 minutes), turn off the engine, wait exactly five minutes and then dip the oil with the car level. This is specified by all engine manufactures to the best of my knowledge. :whisper:
Macka
Quote from: The Buddha on April 18, 2014, 11:23:40 AM
CB noise will be unrelated to engine load, acceleration and most anything else I would think.
Cool.
Buddha.
Agree on that Buddha but I'm mostly still wondering at what speeds the balancer bearing would knock. My knock is only at idle up to 2k rpm or so and goes away after that. It sounds same to me at cold startup as it does hot. Can ride for miles without hearing knock if I don't slow down to a stop. It did sound not quite as loud after I put the left covers back on and filled it with 15-40 replacing the 20-50 I had drained to pull the left covers, also put in new plugs at that time too.
To recap a bit more than in post to Buddha above the 20-50 oil I drained last week was put in late last summer when I heard some piston slap and it quieted the piston slap at that time, it only had about 1k miles on it. I filled with 15-40 a lighter oil after draining to check goats and starter drive on left. Doesn't seem that going back to a heavier oil now would change anything but after I pull the right covers to inspect inside next week and fix oil leak I can refill with any weight oil to test.
Don't have an oil pressure gage and don't think it's a problem but I could get one. When I had the top cover off to check CCT, cam timing, camshaft side play, and valve clearance I cranked the engine over with plugs out and oil flow to the top seemed quite good yet although not as good as it was 100k miles ago. The oil pressure light did not go off when running at reduced idle speeds of 6-700 rpm on one cylinder when pulling plug wires to test.
A big end rod bearing knocks most when revving up and backing off not at idle, a main knocks under load and can also be heard at idle if bad, but I've never heard a balancer shaft bearing knock before. How heavy of an oil would you try to silence a possible balancer bearing knock? I've read a bit on the balancer thing and it seems the bearing failures might be due mostly to blocked oil passages to the bearings and that would take a teardown to check out. If I don't learn anything from removing the right side covers I could fill it with heavier oil to test next.
Quote from: prmas on April 19, 2014, 12:27:29 AM
It could be bearing knock (CB shaft or Crank) due to low oil pressure. Of course it will be more pronounced as the revs drop and the pressure does too but it should not change side to side with the leads off. Have you tested the oil pressure? If you don't have a pressure gauge but do have some really thick engine oil you could try that to see if the knock is less pronounced. If it is quieter it would confirm excessive bearing clearance somewhere.I don't remember from earlier posts if you said that it changed from cold engine to hot or not. Again, obviously it should be less noticeable when cold and the oil is thick than when hot and thin.
As for the oil level check, the standard test for oil level in a car engine is: run the engine until normal oil temperature is reached (drive normally for at least 20 minutes), turn off the engine, wait exactly five minutes and then dip the oil with the car level. This is specified by all engine manufactures to the best of my knowledge. :whisper:
Macka
The CB bearing if it went bad should knock at all revs.
I suspect the thing is a cam shaft side drift.
You have even about .25mm you could hear it. By .5 mm on line it was loud and miserable.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on April 19, 2014, 01:20:34 PM
The CB bearing if it went bad should knock at all revs.
it did not on mine, the higher revs got quieter, the right side bearings on the CB shaft were done, i took the right side cover off and cranked the engine over with the starter (plugs out) and was lookin for ANYTHING and found the end of the shaft wobbling. hence when i go to rebuild this motor, im looking to go with a set of 78mm pistons and send everything to falicon for balenceing to get rid of the CB shaft.
I had the camshaft end play knock at one time on both my 97 and this 02 GSs Buddha and know what it sounds like. It's at a completely different frequency from my present knock on the 02. My present knock is at a frequency a crank bearing, balancer bearing, or piston knock would be and the cam knock is at a much lower frequency.
I found adidasguy's thread on Rebuilding Junior and Junior's problem was a knocking balancer shaft bearing that went real bad. Found this pic showing the end of the balancer shaft can be reached by pulling the right side lower cover. His video shows him shaking a very worn balancer shaft with that cover off and that's about the only knock source I suspect now that I haven't been able to check out yet so when I pull that cover the first of the week to fix a newly developed oil leak I'll check it out, thanks to Patrick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Atq4nKfh7kg
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb442/adidasguy/Juniors%20Demise/DSC01988a.jpg)
Thanks for the confirming post Blueknyt it arrived while I was posting to Buddha. I've been looking for that input since I started this thread. At 81 yo now with growing physical limitations I'm quite reluctant to tear into anything without a some hope of it being worthwhile. I think my family would be delighted if I couldn't get it fixed once more. :icon_lol:
yup, that video is exactly what i have on that engine, its a knock at low end, load doesnt change the sound, RPM does, it stablizes at higher RPM, but lower RPMs it flops and bounces. but it sounds like a crank main would coz the CB shaft is almost as heavy as the crank. you could run the engine without a CB shaft and just plug the oil holes but the vibrations would break engine mounts.
It gets better at higher rpm ? Ok that's educational for me. The thing should have bearings you can replace on the end, not one where you need to split the cases. For all the trouble it causes it should be replaceable quick. That way they can sell more parts.
Cool.
Buddha.
the right side of the CB shaft has a bolt and washer, then there is a machined spacer that is the bearing surface of the shaft, the other end is machined AS a bearing surface. If your gonna split the cases, unless you have parts ready to drop in (I had 3 engine worth of parts, way back when) might want to consider sending the crank,rods,pistons w/pins and rings to a company like falicon for balancing, then you block off the feeder holes for the CB shaft (super easy to do and very reversable) let the CB shaft sit as a door stop and never have to worry about it again. the down side is it might be a touch buzzy at a rpm, the up side is now your not bleeding off already limited HP to spinning a chunk of metal that weighs almost the same as a crank and putting it to the rear wheel, and you have less holes to bleed of needed lubrication.
We should machine the case and the CB shaft to take a ball bearing.
We prolly cant machine the case much. But The shaft should be ...
I dunno how but more bikes dont have CB. I think its a stupid idea.
Cool.
Buddha.
I am watching this thread with interest. Sounds like the cause may be found soon.
My 2 Honda 400 cc twins had balancers that were chain driven rather than gear driven like the GS, they had 2 cyls moving up and down together rather than one up and one down like the GS. Never had any trouble with those or with my 650 and 750 Honda fours that didn't have balance shafts. Put about 98k miles on a CM400 and when badly rusted from winter use I gave it to a friend that was starting to ride again and it had over 100k miles when I last saw it. No trouble with those balancers or their chain drives.
Makes me wish my GS balancer had a chain drive I could temporarily disengage to confirm my knocking problem. Would be tempted to leave it disengaged if that did it, would have to pull engine and split case to disengage it's gear drive or to replace worn bearings. It's been a long time since this old man went screaming thru the mountain twisties, just want to putt around at legal speeds and smell the roses now for another season or two. :icon_lol:
Beautiful day today so I'm taking my bride of 62 years to see the hundreds of Herons that nest just south of us annually so I won't be pulling the right side cover at least until rainy tomorrow.
Strike three? Pulled the right cover and tried to shake the right end of the balancer shaft and couldn't budge it. Well I'm a generation older than Addy who shook Juniors' all over the place so I pulled the plugs and cranked it over spinning the big washer and bolt on the end of the balancer shaft around and around and it didn't move sideways, up and down, or any other way except around. Blueknyt reported his wobbled when spun with a bad balancer bearing. My right side balancer bearing looks as good as the goats and starter drive check did on the other side and the CCT, cam timing, valve clearance, and side play check did on the topside.
But wait a minute, I'm hearing a very light almost inaudible knock coming from nearby while sitting on the right and spinning it over. Almost missed it. Covered the #2 plug hole with my finger over a rag and it was gone. Couldn't hear any light knock like that over on the #1 side while spinning it over. Remembered it was when I pulled the #2 plug wire while at idle that I heard the very loud sharp knock that was much louder than when both cylinders were firing at idle. Me thinks there must be a gremlin in that #2 cylinder taunting me?
sticking valve or worn piston pin?
Or the rod bearing at the crank on that piston?
Don't think it's a valve problem Blueknyt, it still runs too good and smooth (for a GS) to have a sticking valve. While pulling wires to check for piston slap/knock it would run and keep on running on one cylinder at idle with the idle speed dropping from 1100-1200 rpm to about 600-700 rpm and was the same for either cylinder. Still had a nice loud clear compression pop yesterday with my finger over the plug hole cold until I damped it with a rag.
Could be the piston pin you suggest or the cracked ring land or broken rings suggested by prmas way back on the first page. The fact it was running good as ever when something happened all of a sudden and never reversed hot or cold since suggests something broke. Sounding the same now knocking hot or cold at idle up to 2-3k rpm only eliminates piston slap/knock since it doesn't change at all as it warms up.
Well confirming it wasn't the balancer bearing knocking which would have required pulling the engine and splitting cases which I wasn't even considering doing leaves me pondering whether to maybe pull the head and pursue it further. It's possible to pull the head and cylinders and replace pistons/pins and rings and hone the cylinders if the rod big end bearings feel ok I think. I remember you prefer doing a complete job fixing up an engine but I'm not up to that now. If it was late fall instead of spring I'd probably be out there now pulling the head instead of looking thru the want adds for bikes. At 100.5k miles I really have got my money's worth out of this one already.
So...which bike you're getting now? :D
well Jack, for me pulling apart the engine to be sure once everything else is checked short of splitting the cases isnt a second thought, in truth, even though you can pull the top end inside the frame its just easyer on a bench. I am one that hears a noise I have to KNOW NOW! ive blown up engines and tranys away from home/transport Vehicle and well, vehicle recovery blows. ive even replaced a oil pump, crank rod and bearings on the GS on a friday afternoon after work(started knocking on way home) and had it back together to go to work sat morning. it wasnt an ideal rebuild and i was worried about it holding, but after a week and over 150miles i didnt care, that engine is still in the GS to this day and i ran it as daily transpo for 2 more years. I am ashamed ive let the bike sit and it now needs tires,chain,battery,a complete carb overhaul and posibbly a new gas tank. too many damn projects not enough cash.
Well I put the clutch cover and signal generator parts back on today after checking the balancer right side bearing yesterday. Left the cover off the signal generator so I could see the rotor and with plugs still out cranked it some more. Knock from #2 cylinder was a bit louder and clearer today and it seemed to me it knocked once each time it passed the upper right pickup indicating it knocked with #2 at or near TDC. Could be a worn piston pin knocking on changing piston direction or possibly be a broken ring and or land I guess. Don't know but if I find something else to ride this summer I'll keep the GS in the garage and maybe feel like pulling that head to see what happened next fall.
Don't know what I'm looking for piresito, my problem with the GS is the #2 cylinder so maybe a thumper without a #2 cyl? I kinda like that little CBR250R single but maybe that little Grom would be more suitable, only 225# curb weight about half my GS so I could probably still pick it up. :icon_lol:
PS to bluekynt, know I couldn't R&R engine without help, probably have to strain to lift the head off now. :cry:
Why not just replace the motor as an assembly? At 100k miles you certainly have got every miles worth out of the bike.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/02-Suzuki-GS500E-GS500-500-ENGINE-MOTOR-VIDEOS-/190772712258?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c6af09342&vxp=mtr
Just an example, it might even be close to your location.
Just thinking out loud.
regards
Mech
Replacing a GS engine that needs major work is always a good alternative if a simple fix can't be found and now that I know what is wrong with mine I'll be thinking about it. Ten years ago when I was a kid of 70 it would have been a piece of cake but now it seems beyond me physically. Thanks Mech.
gsJack......
Maybe you could mentor some youngsters and teach them a few tricks and get free labor in return. I wish some one would of taught me a think or two when I first started working on cars.....
Quote from: gsJack on April 23, 2014, 05:10:43 PM
Don't know what I'm looking for piresito, my problem with the GS is the #2 cylinder so maybe a thumper without a #2 cyl? I kinda like that little CBR250R single but maybe that little Grom would be more suitable, only 225# curb weight about half my GS so I could probably still pick it up. :icon_lol:
Didn't knew about the Grom, just Googled it! It's nice...for training knee downs and wheelie in the parking lot! ehehe :icon_mrgreen:
See it like this, you problem is with one of the cylinders, so it's good to know that you have other cylinder that keeps pushing the bike! You're never on foot! So...how about the CBR500?
I was just kidding about getting a bike without a #2 cylinder piresito but I do have some interest in those 2 bikes. I've liked that little CBR250R since it came out, looks like fun. My interest in the Grom was rekindled recently by a thread in another forum I belong to about a Ducati guy having some fun on a track with his Grom.
http://ohioriders.net/index.php?/topic/104348-first-track-ride-with-the-grom/
I have made it home about 10 miles on the #2 cylinder of my GS when the #1 went out and before the GS years I made it home about 30 miles on 2 cylinders on my CB650SC when a bad coil dropped the other 2. Your point is well taken but if the bike falls over away from home you can't get home if you can no longer pick it up. :thumb:
Jack if you lived closer, i would be more then willing to muscle the wrenches for you. I might even have enough parts laying around to fix yours ( if i knew where i put em all)
Re-read one of your later posts Jack... when you said the noise gets worse when you disconnected the one plug, that seems similar to what my bike does, only mine is from about 3500-4500 RPM.
This noise similar by any chance? I apologize for the nausea inducing camera movements, but I was trying to use the video to pinpoint where the sound was coming from. http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/Dydler/media/sound_zpsb0dd26e1.mp4.html
My noise is more pronounced under load, seems to come from left side, gets substantially louder when only running on left cylinder (only running on left in video) and noise disappears when running only on right cylinder. Again, occurs mostly from around 3500-4500 RPM and for some odd reason seems loudest/most pronounced directly over the gas tank.
Also, for you other guys... if a ring/land was damaged, would there be scoring visible in the cylinder due to this?
No, that doesn't sound at all like my noise Badot. Besides sounding different the rpm's are completely different. Also you think your noise is with engine running on the cylinder making the noise and my noise is from the right cyl with the engine running on the left one. Have you confirmed which side your noise is from, running side or opposite side?
After checking at idle with wires pulled one at a time I thought my noise was from the running left cylinder but discovered when spinning the engine on starter without plugs it was from the right cylinder. Might be worthwhile trying that with yours if you haven't yet, put an ear close to the plug holes while cranking w/o plugs and see if you can hear it like I did by chance while checking for the counter balance brg problem.
Do you have an optical scope to look into the offending cyl with? I don't and all I can see in my right cyl thru the plug hole is a very dirty carboned up piston top. I do think keeping on running with the noise might score the cylinder more if a broken ring/land is involved but will not if I have a loose piston pin problem. I took another short ride yesterday and never noticed the noise like before except when coming to a stop. Don't hear any problem at the 3500-4500 rpm your hearing yours.
jack this may sound stupid and feel free to wack me with a rubber chicken if it does, but, are all your engine mount bolts tight? while i dont mean torqued, but no play between frame, mounts, tabs and spacers or case guards if equiped?
Yes, I checked them when putting the clutch side cover back on a couple days ago. I had the front 2 bolts out a couple years ago to remove rusty case guards and had to soak the top one with liquid wrench and drive it all the way out. Decided not to paint and put the guards back on and socked the engine mount bolts down real tight to stay forever or so I thought. :icon_lol:
Badot, often a cracked ring land will not so much score a bore as "polish" it as the piston is softer than the bore. Given enough time it will wear a mark in the bore but not scratch/score it in the normal sense. If the rings are broken the sharp ends will usually score the bore. I have listened to your noise a few times but cannot make it out. The nearest that I can guess at this stage is that it sounds like a compression leak but that does not fit your description. Sounds often do not travel well on the Interwebs. Is there any staining or leakage around the headgasket or exhaust ports? :dunno_black:
Macka
Quote from: prmas on April 27, 2014, 03:06:08 AM
Badot, often a cracked ring land will not so much score a bore as "polish" it as the piston is softer than the bore. Given enough time it will wear a mark in the bore but not scratch/score it in the normal sense. If the rings are broken the sharp ends will usually score the bore. I have listened to your noise a few times but cannot make it out. The nearest that I can guess at this stage is that it sounds like a compression leak but that does not fit your description. Sounds often do not travel well on the Interwebs. Is there any staining or leakage around the headgasket or exhaust ports? :dunno_black:
Macka
At this point I've said **** it to the problem. exhaust gaskets and head gasket were both inspected, no problem found, then replaced, no problem found. It's an old beat up 23 year old bike that's gone over 8,000 miles making the noise by now with no noticeable adverse affects or changes, I'm just going to ride it until it dies.
I simply posted the video and the question to see if it would help Jack at all.