So I rode a Harley for the first time today. 2013 Sportster 883. It was...different. Definitely more torque than most bikes I've ridden. The lack of a tachometer made me a little uncomfortable but then again I guess it doesn't really matter on such old technology.
I know nothing about Harley Davidson motorcycles. Sue me.
Sportster is Fuel injected right ? That makes it ahead of GS. Belt drive too. Yea yea the push rod cams need to be tossed, else its a modern bike.
Cool.
Buddha.
I had a ride on one a while back, some sort of soft tail and pretty new. I think it was a 1340cc or something like that.
Didn't like the inability to lean in corners... didn't like how the suspension felt, especially the front forks being at the top of the travel all the time... didn't like the brakes... didn't like having to hold my feet on the footpegs to avoid being blown off...
However the torque from that thing was awesome! Totally addictive...
I rode a v-rod once. Smooth engine, very linear power, turned OK for a cruiser, but the brakes were frightening.
It is FI but the actual engine technology predates the GS500 if I'm not mistaken. Also, I found the lean to be very unsettling. The turn-in was very bad. Felt like it had flat-tread tires like on a car. The torque was nice, again, but overall it wasn't that mind blowing. It felt like it should have had much better acceleration for the displacement of the engine.
I personally can't stand the forward set controls of Harleys, I feel very uncomfortable with my feet in front of me while I'm riding. It doesn't help at all that the ones with mid-set controls are extra wide because of the engine covers...
I don't necessarily like the big V-twins either. Sure they sound nice and make great torque, but they are rattly and heavy.
In the end, Harley Davidson does not make a bike I would ride. I get a lot of flack for being a freedom loving gun owning American and riding a Japanese bike, but I always say that if Harley ever makes a 750cc bike that's thin and set up as a "standard", not a cruiser, I'll buy it. But until then they do not make anything that fits my needs.
The closest thing they ever made to that was the old XR750, which isn't made anymore and was never made in a street-legal configuration even then.
I'd much rather ride a Buell, like an M2, but even then the engine is a bit too large for my tastes.
I had always questioned why the only American bike manufacturers are Harley, Victory, and Indian, all of which crank out big V-twin cruisers, while the Japanese market is HUGE and unopposed by anyone else.
If you want a big V-twin cruiser you can be proud to buy domestic, but you can also buy import since Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda, and Kawasaki all make v-twin cruisers.
If you want a small-medium sized "standard" or sport-bike with a parallel engine configuration you are forced to buy import. Nobody domestic makes a "standard", and the Harleys that have "standard" riding positions are big and uncomfortable.
In local conversation I've have heard that Harley buys out any domestic competition, don't know if it's true but judging from the evidence on the table I'd say it's likely.
Plenty of domestically produced cars don't have big thirsty V8s in them, my sister's Dodge Avenger has a 2.4L inline 4-cylinder with DOHC and variable valve timing. The Ford Fiesta has a little 1.6L I-4. There are plenty of other small American cars with little "Japanese" style engines.
Why don't any American motorcycle makers do the same thing?
You'd think someone here would want a piece of the pie, especially in the dirt-bike game. It's been so long and not a single US company makes dirt-bikes...
@Kijona
The 883 has always been regarded as underpowered. Japanese v-twins with similar displacement will beat it every time.
There a video on YouTube of an informal drag-race of the Yamaha Bolt 950 vs the Harley Sportster 883 and it's no contest. It's like a man trying to foot-race a cheetah...
I should add I rode a Honda Shadow once. Handled better because it was much lighter, and the brakes were acceptable, but the fun ends so fast on a twin. Thank goodness the thing had a rev limiter because I would have blown the engine for sure.
For me the riding position is just not what I like or back can take. I prefer the forward leaning position for my lower back issues.
I rode my in-laws Harley 1200 Sportster a while back and loved it except for when the rpms got on up there, then it vibrated so hard my vision blurred. I have to say I loved the power, I just wish the GS had power equal to it. I had a chance to buy and would have except the funds aren't there. Oh well, at least I still have my low mileage reliable ole Suzuki.
On thing I've heard about owning a Harley is that it is comparable to adopting a child.
:dunno_black: the fi is a theottlebody type setup. I had an 883c
*throttlebody
I also recently rode a Harley...sort of.
(http://i.imgur.com/iet96ig.jpg)
Picking it up on the 10th. 19 days left...but who's counting?
Gee Ross. I'm sorry.
This is the one I ride on a regular basis
(http://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1.0-9/1932452_1408629062735304_280140848_n.jpg)
Ah now a Buell... I reckon I could probably handle a Buell in the garage :icon_mrgreen:
That would have to be after I have my Katana though... the Kat comes first!
And I'd probably have a T500 Titan in between the Kat and the Buell...
Quote from: john on April 21, 2014, 11:36:17 PM
Gee Ross. I'm sorry.
No worries, it's not your fault I have to wait this long. ;)
I feel a custom title coming on...
Aww, a couple weeks in advance. You're too kind.
Closest I've come to riding a Harley was when I had a demo ride on a Buell Cyclone with a modified 1200 Sporty engine at the Honda Hoot near Knoxville back in 01, about an hour mix of both freeway and back roads. It was all torque and vibrated so much you could hardly see the turn signals at idle but smoothed out at 2k and ran smooth to 3k where the vibes picked up again, but it sure was sweet and powerful from 2-3k. Made the trip down there on my 97 GS500 going over the Dragon and up the Blue Ridge Pkwy going home to NE Ohio following son JP on his GS1100E.
No doubt they have power. I just wish they were allowed to play with the v-rod engine. I think they could have built a sweet sportbike out of one.
On the bright side, now they have an even better engine and don't have to answer to HD.
Quote from: RossLH on April 22, 2014, 08:09:31 PM
On the bright side, now they have an even better engine and don't have to answer to HD.
True. But Why on earth wouldn't they allow them to at least try using the v-rod engine? Now that would have been a bike I would have been interested in. I mean they let them make the blast, and that thing was a toilet.
Quote from: john on April 23, 2014, 10:35:55 AMTrue. But Why on earth wouldn't they allow them to at least try using the v-rod engine? Now that would have been a bike I would have been interested in. I mean they let them make the blast, and that thing was a toilet.
HD didn't let Buell make the Blast, they made Buell make the Blast. Erik hated that bike from day 1. I'm not sure why he couldn't (or just didn't) use the VRod engine though.
I thought the VRod engine was designed by Erik Buell, or developed from his take on the Harley engines. I could easily be wrong, but I heard that after Buell was dropped from HD they took over his parts/designs and started using them in their bikes.
Edit: I guess it was hearsay, a simple google search proved that I am mistaken.
Also, did I miss something? Is Buell still making bikes?
IIRC the vrods engine was developed by Porsche. cannot remember who turned the wrenches in production. would have to see a vrod vin to tell you
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on April 23, 2014, 06:56:02 PM
IIRC the vrods engine was developed by Porsche. cannot remember who turned the wrenches in production. would have to see a vrod vin to tell you
Porsche did help with the development of the VRod engine, though I don't think the full details of that have been officially disclosed. They were assembled by HD.
Quote from: Watcher on April 23, 2014, 06:11:24 PMI could easily be wrong, but I heard that after Buell was dropped from HD they took over his parts/designs and started using them in their bikes.
Also, did I miss something? Is Buell still making bikes?
Part of Erik's contract with HD was doing engineering consulting for them. HD contractually had the rights to everything designed by Buell under HD.
And to answer your question, yes (http://www.erikbuellracing.com/). The 1190RS was their introductory model, going for $39,999 for each of the limited run of 100 bikes. After selling those out, they did another run of 30 bikes with carbon fiber body panels for $44,499. The 1190RX, the road-going WSB homologation production bike, has been on sale since late last year. You can expect the 1190SX, the streetfighter version late this year and the 1190AX, the successor to the Ulysses, sometime next year.
That's cool!
I'm surprised the Buell website doesn't link to EBR.
Also, have Buells always been that expensive!? :o
I see them all the time on Craigslist sub $5k. I'd think a bike that floats near 20 grand would hold it's value more.
The XB's went for around 10 grand new, and the 1125R (the closest predecessor to the 1190RX) went for $12,500 new. The 1190RX is on a completely different level, competing with bikes in its price range.
Any idea if they'll make any lower priced production bikes? Like anything in the $8k range?
What did the M2 used to go for?
Right now they're focusing on the 1190 line, as well as their engineering consulting business with Hero.
The Cyclones went for $8600 new back when they were made.
Quote from: Watcher on April 23, 2014, 07:30:54 PM
That's cool!
I'm surprised the Buell website doesn't link to EBR.
Buell Motorcycles != EBR
Quote from: Paulcet on April 27, 2014, 02:17:21 PMBuell Motorcycles != EBR
The Buell website doesn't link to EBR because of trademark issues. Same Erik Buell, same building, different ownership.
Bain Capital sunk a smallish chunk of money for a big stake in EBR. Here's hoping they make sure it keeps moving in the right direction.
Quote from: john on April 27, 2014, 08:44:24 PM
Bain Capital sunk a smallish chunk of money for a big stake in EBR. Here's hoping they make sure it keeps moving in the right direction.
Well....indirectly. Hero sunk money into EBR, Hero is backed by Bain Capital.
Geez... That's a lot to remember.
A lot simpler to just stay with a cheap, quick, Light, very repairable, Jap bike. :cheers:
Just sayin'
Quote from: Electrojake on April 29, 2014, 02:44:14 PMA lot simpler to just stay with a cheap, quick, Light, very repairable, Jap bike. :cheers:
Just sayin'
Did that once. Did not enjoy it. I'm not one to make the same mistake twice.
My 06 Harley XL1200C has 3200 miles on it, (cause it seldom moves).
My 06 Suzuki DL1000 has about 49,000 miles on it, (cause it never stops).
Different strokes for different folks.
Just got a 2014 WR250R which will probably blow past the Harley's mileage in the next 90 days.
Guess whatever serves an individual the best gets ridden the most. :dunno_black:
Quote from: Electrojake on April 29, 2014, 07:52:13 PM
My 06 Harley XL1200C has 3200 miles on it, (cause it seldom moves).
My 06 Suzuki DL1000 has about 49,000 miles on it, (cause it never stops).
Different strokes for different folks.
Just got a 2014 WR250R which will probably blow past the Harley's mileage in the next 90 days.
Guess whatever serves an individual the best gets ridden the most. :dunno_black:
My '93 GS500 had 6400 miles on it when I bought it, barely cracked 7000 miles 2 years later. It was always broken. I plan on riding the wheels off the XB.
So your a Buell rider, not a Harley guy. OK, now I understand.
Several years ago my nephew had a Buell. Don't know much about it except that it was incredibly expensive and would blow my stinky Sportster away in 2 gears. :bowdown:
Real fast bike for a big V twin.
I remember him telling me something about the oil (or fuel?) being stored in the frame? Yes?
Had a real large dia. front brake too.
Fuel goes in the frame, oil goes in the swing arm. Front brake is a so-called "zero torque load" (ZTL) perimeter brake, 375mm diameter. With the addition of the underslung muffler, it all adds up to a very low center of gravity. It all adds up to a bike that you can ride for hours on end in any condition and not get fatigued. Cruises like a Harley, corners like a sport bike, and has more torque than you could ever need at any point in the RPM range. And of course, the belt drive....so much easier than having a chain.
Sounds like amazing bikes, small wonder they ever stopped making them...
HD screwed Buell over big time, that was such a shame.
I think I'd like to at least ride one one day if not own one... remembering the torque of the HD I rode and thinking how that would go in a low CoG good handling bike... that would definitely be a blast... but not a Buell Blast, I hear they're quite lame...
I had a huge mother of a harley for a day down in Myrtle Beach. My brother and I rented them for a day and they brought out two with 96ci engines (roughly 1585cc) with straight pipes. We quickly accepted. I don't even remember what they were called but they were both soft tails. They had a STUPID amount of torque, from ANY rpm. When the bike was idling you couldn't see anything in the mirrors and it felt like the engine was going to rattle loose from the frame. The riding position was horrible. But then again I'm a sport bike guy so I don't like having my feet forward on a bike and my arms up in the air. But I have to say cruising at slightly (haha) illegal highway speeds at 2,000rpm with your feet up on the highway pegs was actually pretty comfortable. You could suck down some serious miles on one of those.
But even for almost 1600cc's the bike wasn't that fast. The torque came in great big lumps but it sure didn't like to rev. And the brakes... well it didn't really have any brakes. I think you got more stopping power from the engine braking than the actual brakes.
It was a good experience to ride a bike completely different from your own, but it's definitely not my kinda bike. I can see the appeal of them now though.
Quote from: peteGS on April 30, 2014, 04:27:21 AMI think I'd like to at least ride one one day if not own one
If you're ever in the Milwaukee area, let me know and you can take it for a spin.
Wagoneer, keep in mind the engines look like Harley engines from the outside, but on the inside they are quite different. The engines in the XB's tend to wind out a bit further (especially the 984, which started life as the Harley 883) and vibrate a bit less than typical Harley engines.
Quote from: RossLH on April 30, 2014, 11:10:27 AM
Quote from: peteGS on April 30, 2014, 04:27:21 AMI think I'd like to at least ride one one day if not own one
If you're ever in the Milwaukee area, let me know and you can take it for a spin.
Thanks for the offer! Could be a bit difficult from over here in Oz but I may get there one day :)
What is maintenance like for ease and price? I like to do all my own so that would be a key ingredient for me...
Anyone ever ride one of these?
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/834/1k6m.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/n61k6mj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/835/bifn.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/n7bifnj)
Saw this baby parked out front a local gun store, couldn't resist a few pics.
Quote from: peteGS on April 30, 2014, 12:58:21 PMWhat is maintenance like for ease and price? I like to do all my own so that would be a key ingredient for me...
I guess I could start paying attention to where people live....maybe.
Maintenance is real easy on the air cooled Buells. Buell riders seem to like doing TPS resets (it's like their equivalent of cleaning and synchronizing carbs), and every now and then you'll see an O2 sensor burned out from sub-par tuning, but other than that it's just regular oil changes and pre-ride inspections.
Watcher...is that a V8? I most certainly have not ridden a V8 bike.
There was a 850cc v8 in the mid 90's called the Morbidelli V8. It was all over the usenet back when we didn't have cat video's and nudie pics on the net.
Cool.
Buddha.
Cheers for that Ross, good to know!
The V8 looks like a Boss Hogg.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: peteGS on April 30, 2014, 06:28:28 PM
The V8 looks like a Boss Hogg.
Most definitely!
The thing was HUGE! No way that pic does it any justice for scale, but the seat is your typical Harley sized seat so try to imagine that.
Personally I'd be a little uncomfortable with how close your leg has to come to those headers, and the fact that the guy has a nitrous bottle on there just straight up scares me :cookoo:
Yeah that's nutso stuff, you'd have to walk away if you dropped it...
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Quote from: Watcher on April 30, 2014, 02:21:31 PM
Anyone ever ride one of these?
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/834/1k6m.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/n61k6mj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/835/bifn.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/n7bifnj)
Saw this baby parked out front a local gun store, couldn't resist a few pics.
a boss hoss? yes. there was a local demo/charity ride. not fast and not far. those are not hard to ride. like a Harley its CG is down low;. the torque however WILL kill you if youre careless. goose it and it rocks. goose it hard and she WILL throw you if you aren't ready for it.
I reckon if the opportunity presented itself you'd have to ride one just so you can say you've ridden a V8 bike...
I always thought Buells were cool bikes. I know next to nothing about them but I've kinda always wanted to ride one.
Wasn't Buell the first company to try the whole "oil through the frame" idea?
Quote from: Kijona on May 23, 2014, 12:05:40 AM
I always thought Buells were cool bikes. I know next to nothing about them but I've kinda always wanted to ride one.
I always knew about them and thought they were interesting, but was never really interested in them for myself. Now all I want to do is ride one, the idea of an American made bike that's comparable in application to my GS500 is really intriguing and the more I find out about the design and engineering the more I become interested.
I'm really digging the M2 Cyclone, and I see plenty of them come through Craigslist often enough. I hope in the near future I have some $$ to play around with and at least have the opportunity to go look at one, maybe even ride it home :thumb:
Quote from: peteGS on May 03, 2014, 01:51:39 PM
I reckon if the opportunity presented itself you'd have to ride one just so you can say you've ridden a V8 bike...
it scares me mor so than a litre plus supersport. if you think about it, fuel economy is pretty good considering youre using very little of the engine. in many cases cruising at a fast idle.
The more I watch videos about Buell bikes, designs, and company, the more I want one.
Anyone in the Chicagoland area own one and willing to let me take it for a spin? I need to find out if I like how they feel before I drive myself nuts with an obsession that isn't meant to be!
Sorry, I'm kind of going Buell crazy in this thread...
Quote from: Watcher on May 30, 2014, 08:40:54 PM
The more I watch videos about Buell bikes, designs, and company, the more I want one.
Anyone in the Chicagoland area own one and willing to let me take it for a spin? I need to find out if I like how they feel before I drive myself nuts with an obsession that isn't meant to be!
I drive through Chicago a couple times a month, and pretty soon here I'll be riding more often than driving. If you ever find yourself a bit further north (I'm about 1.5-2 hours from the airport), you can take mine for a spin.
Alternatively, hit up Badweb or BuellXB.com and ask around--there are plenty of owners in the area.