Hello,
I haven't been here in a while. My first bike was a super sweet 04 GSf in yellow. I rode that for a few years before the ex put it in a ditch. Upgraded (with help from my dad) brakes, front and rear suspension, bars, tires... but then moved on to other bikes, and away from my mechanic. Currently riding a Ducati m796.
But now the BF wants to ride. So yesterday we picked up the most pathetic 89 I have ever seen. It runs, but it's going to need some stuff to be safe for a noob. I need to get some parts headed my way but I have some questions.
1. The front forks are wasted. The compress super easily--bottom out on speed bumps. Maybe they just need new seals and oil?
2. The clip-ons need to go. Do I just need the mounting plate for the standard bars, or is there other missing hardware?
3. What are the most relaxed/touring bars I can put on it - keeping in mind that the control cables are probably too short. Will the cables be long enough for bikemaster superbike bars?
It also needs tires, and has a gaping hole in the right side engine cover. Is there anything else I should do beside change the oil and lube the chain? I'm not thinking full restoration, I just want it rideable for a year then we can pass it on to the next noob.
Jen
" Is there anything else I should do,...."
Yes,..post pictures! Oh and welcome back,..... ;)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/mckennitt/bikes/89GS5001_zps58d9b906.jpg)
Yeah, that's a hole in the right side engine cover.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/mckennitt/bikes/89GS5002_zps92336a36.jpg)
Is this a fuel filter? Was this on my 2004 and I just never noticed it?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/mckennitt/bikes/89GS5003_zps9f7120d8.jpg)
Ordered: tires, fork seals and oil, handlebars, handlebar mount, bar ends, oil filter, right side cover. Just need to make it rideable for now. Pretty can come over the winter.
I just picked up an 89 my self and I am thinking that the front on these are just set up super soft anyways. I think I have ordered the same parts list as you at this point, I am keeping my clipons though. Fuel filter is an aftermarket one..I will warn you that with that installed if you need to get your tank off it is a PAIN to get that past the other fuel line to get to the off valve under the tank..
You aren't mistaken, that is a fuel filter and it was not on your '04... or any year GS500 ever. That is also the wrong type of filter to have even if you needed one. The PO might have put it on due to the insides of the tank... so I would check if its rusting that bad to really warrant having one. The tank actually has a filter on it, it's part of the tank petcock. Unless that screen is shot, it should be more than sufficient on its own in most cases - which is why these bikes don't come with a filter on the lines. Also, because they are only gravity fed (no fuel pump of any sort), in-line filters tend to be problematic with fuel starvation symptoms - so you have to be mindful of getting the correct filter if you truly need one.
Great start to getting her roadworthy. I would add some brake maintenance on to that list as well. Consider bleeding the brakes at a minimum, if not replacing the lines (unless they are already upgraded to stainless). Brake fluid should be changed every two years, and brake lines every 4 (unless stainless) - its one safety thing you don't want to overlook, and its easy enough that there isn't much excuse not to do it. Check the pads as well.
The stock fork springs are ridiculously soft to begin with... I'm sure replacing the rubber and oil will improve the current situation, but you won't be impressed by the difference. I truly suggest replacing with aftermarket springs - Any member who has done this mod, says its the single best upgrade to a stock GS500. It can be done easily and under $100... Rich Desmond is a member here who is also the owner of Sonic Springs - I'd check 'em out - for about $80 you'll feel a completely different bike underneath you.
You can use superbike bars - they are pretty similar to stock... on most GS500 models, the change to superbike bars does not require any longer cables or anything, its a direct swap... but I can't confirm that on your 89, since it came stock with the clip-ons and the cables are indeed a slightly different size than the later models which did not have clip-ons (so maybe someone with this experience can add to that for us??) Keep in mind you will also need a top plate with the centered clamps to fit any full bars.
I will say you shouldn't have much trouble selling the clip-ons if you wish. There is a market for them since 89 and some of the 90 models are the only ones that ever came with them. In fact, I may be interested myself depending on price and condition - so keep me in mind if you want to sell them. I do have an extra top plate from an '07 in my parts bins, but I don't have the clamps for it. (Just noticed you bought the top plate already)
:cheers:
- Bboy
You wont have a problem getting rid of those clip-ons!! Actually since you posted this the vultures are probably circling already! If I still had mine I would have offered a free swap to regular bars with you :D '89 clip-ons are like the holy grail of parts.....
Go with sonic or progressive spring. Get rid of the fuel filter. Change all fluids and put on new tires. Check the tank for rust. If you feel up to it clean the carbs and put in larger jets while you have them open. All of that will really freshen up that bike.
Quote from: BockinBboy on May 23, 2014, 08:40:03 AM
You aren't mistaken, that is a fuel filter and it was not on your '04... or any year GS500 ever. That is also the wrong type of filter to have even if you needed one. The PO might have put it on due to the insides of the tank... so I would check if its rusting that bad to really warrant having one. The tank actually has a filter on it, it's part of the tank petcock. Unless that screen is shot, it should be more than sufficient on its own in most cases - which is why these bikes don't come with a filter on the lines. Also, because they are only gravity fed (no fuel pump of any sort), in-line filters tend to be problematic with fuel starvation symptoms - so you have to be mindful of getting the correct filter if you truly need one.
Great start to getting her roadworthy. I would add some brake maintenance on to that list as well. Consider bleeding the brakes at a minimum, if not replacing the lines (unless they are already upgraded to stainless). Brake fluid should be changed every two years, and brake lines every 4 (unless stainless) - its one safety thing you don't want to overlook, and its easy enough that there isn't much excuse not to do it. Check the pads as well.
The stock fork springs are ridiculously soft to begin with... I'm sure replacing the rubber and oil will improve the current situation, but you won't be impressed by the difference. I truly suggest replacing with aftermarket springs - Any member who has done this mod, says its the single best upgrade to a stock GS500. It can be done easily and under $100... Rich Desmond is a member here who is also the owner of Sonic Springs - I'd check 'em out - for about $80 you'll feel a completely different bike underneath you.
You can use superbike bars - they are pretty similar to stock... on most GS500 models, the change to superbike bars does not require any longer cables or anything, its a direct swap... but I can't confirm that on your 89, since it came stock with the clip-ons and the cables are indeed a slightly different size than the later models which did not have clip-ons (so maybe someone with this experience can add to that for us??) Keep in mind you will also need a top plate with the centered clamps to fit any full bars.
I will say you shouldn't have much trouble selling the clip-ons if you wish. There is a market for them since 89 and some of the 90 models are the only ones that ever came with them. In fact, I may be interested myself depending on price and condition - so keep me in mind if you want to sell them. I do have an extra top plate from an '07 in my parts bins, but I don't have the clamps for it. (Just noticed you bought the top plate already)
:cheers:
- Bboy
Not to highjack but I have been looking for braided lines and cant seem to find them..well for the older model years. Should I assume the banjo bolts are the same size on both older and newer models so I can just use the ones listed for 04 and above? Any one try spacers in the forks as a alternative for sonic springs? (have a katana 600 I will be mutilating for parts so front end from that will be going on in the colder months..damn MA and its winter.)
The difference you'll likely find is that the angle changed over the years. I haven't found anything exact, but based on posts from adidasguy, he noted several differences among lengths and bolt angles of the brake lines over the years - and the changes did not mesh up with the well-noted model differences of say the 89-00, and 01-02, 04+ model year separations. It would be best to measure what you have on your bike currently. Though having a slightly different angle is not a deal breaker in most cases I can think of, but it may put it off enough to stretch a line to where you actually need an extra inch or something.
The spacers with the stock springs are HUGE... I'm sure adding additional spacing would stiffen it a little, but if you already experience bottoming out with your stock setup - that really won't change... you'll get less travel too. But, if you truly are going to swap the front end, I don't think I would drop the cash on springs either. Keep in mind though, that the springs shouldn't be hard to sell later too. I've always seen the For Sale threads here for them get snatched up fairly quickly. Many folks will buy them, and they get rid of the bike before they make it on... or will take them back out to sell separately from the bike - as they aren't an item you see on the bike, and they don't really degrade...
- Bboy
Thanks for the info so far. Parts have begun to trickle into the garage.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/mckennitt/bikes/IMG_20140529_072349_134_zps8e9fb7c7.jpg)
Wheels out for rubber.
Next question: Left turn signal doesn't work. Not the flasher or the dash light. Right works fine. Where to start troubleshooting this?
Next next question: Cleaning the white wheels... anything better than kerosene/carbcleaner/wd40? Probably too lazy to repaint.
Quote from: BockinBboy on May 23, 2014, 08:40:03 AM
That is also the wrong type of filter to have even if you needed one.
Out of interest, why is that the "wrong type" of filter? I've got an identical one installed, which was sold as suitable for low pressure gravity systems, and haven't had any issues?
For the wheels: I always use soap and hot water with tires mounted. If you use kerosene while the tires are off, make sure it doesn't get into the bearings - it could dissolve the grease in them.
Is it both signals on the left (front and back) that aren't working? If so, I'd guess the handlebar switch is at fault. If it is just the front or rear on the left side, I'd guess a bad bulb or bad wiring.
I like the paint job on that tank btw!
I have a inline filter on my bike as the tank had some rust inside. I had taken a length of chain and cleaned it out but to be on the safe side I installed one. I have had no issue at all with fuel starvation.
MODS: Move this thread to Projects?
Handlebars and mount off:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/mckennitt/bikes/IMG_20140529_202435_571_zpsec15280d.jpg)
My OMG ANOTHER SEIZED BOLT face:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/mckennitt/bikes/f156ed68-0548-4299-9710-25e134c30fdc_zps274c1209.jpg) >:(
Quote from: Meuryn on May 29, 2014, 03:38:22 PM
Quote from: BockinBboy on May 23, 2014, 08:40:03 AM
That is also the wrong type of filter to have even if you needed one.
Out of interest, why is that the "wrong type" of filter? I've got an identical one installed, which was sold as suitable for low pressure gravity systems, and haven't had any issues?
Generally, because its a paper type filter... usually okay on a lawn mower or other similar applications with a plastic tank where they are used more for prevention. Definitely depends on quality and how bad your tank is, how well it will do on the bike... Some folks put them on and don't have an issue, while others run into problems every time the tank gets toward the reserve. From my experience, if your tank really doesn't need one (its clean), then paper filters will work for prevention. But if it does really need one (rusty tank), the paper filters don't flow well enough, especially as they collect more bits. What I was suggesting is that you know you won't have an issue whether it truly needs one or not if you use one like the pic below.
(http://vintagetriumphparts.com/products/photos/65a_68.jpg)
- Bboy
Parts keep coming off the bike, and the "to-do" list grows...seems a bit overwhelming at this point -- wondering if we will figure how to put it all back together...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/mckennitt/bikes/gs500frontoff_zps5a975414.jpg)
The seal on the right one is totally blown. Ordered new seals for both. Keeping the stock springs, refilling with heavier oil. No idea how to change seals, that next on the googling list.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/mckennitt/bikes/gs500forksoff_zps04bc3341.jpg)
Wasn't planning on changing these, but I think they are shot. Are they?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/mckennitt/bikes/gs500brakepads_zps0da3c0f7.jpg)
Great job, what tires are you looking at fitting?
Jen, I highly recommend new fork springs while you are in there.....but of course it's your call if they are needed or not. You can look on the Sonic Springs site for springs. And there are some good videos on YouTube by BaltimoreGS on how to do springs / seals.
There should be an indicator on the brake pads (I can't see it in the pics). If you're close to that indicator, then new pads are a good idea.
I agree that the springs are a good idea...but...this bike is just going to be a learner bike. We don't plan to keep it more than a year or two. Was trying to keep costs down, by getting a fixer upper. I didn't even plan on doing the front suspension at all. At this point, with tires we are into $350+ in parts and fluids. I have to draw the line somewhere. A braided front line would be great, too. Wasn't going to do the brakes, but they look so terrible I am going to at least do the pads and change the fluid.
That non-functioning left turn signal probably means another part to order...
The more we take apart on this bike, the more apparent it is that the bike sat for some time out in the elements. Just trying to make it functional and safe to learn on, and hopefully not spend the whole summer doing it.
Tires going on are: Metzeler Lazertec Rear 130/70 and a Conti Motion 110/70 front. Going for middle of the road, longer life tires.
The brake pad in your pic above has a lot life left in it, they require replacement when the grooves are gone but it's best to replace them a little before that.
Can't beat the Avon Roadrider tires for middle of the road longer life tires. The Conti Motion is a radial tire and the Lasertec is a bias tire. A radial front with a bias rear is considered a bad mix but a bias front with a radial rear is OK. Your mix wouldn't pass inspection in EU but we don't have inspections here in OH but some states do.
The Lasertec is a good tire I've used but they've got too expensive here compared to other brands. My all time favorite handling tires on my GS500s remains a bias Lasertec front with a radial Conti RoadAttack rear but they're not enough better to justify their current prices.
Tires I've used and miles used on my GSs:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/GS500tirelogs_zpse04c1f44.jpg
.
Quote from: Twism86 on May 23, 2014, 08:46:45 AM
You wont have a problem getting rid of those clip-ons!!
Go with sonic or progressive spring. Get rid of the fuel filter. Change all fluids and put on new tires. Check the tank for rust. If you feel up to it clean the carbs and put in larger jets while you have them open. All of that will really freshen up that bike.
the 89 clipons as stated, ARE and always will be the holy grail of parts
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on June 02, 2014, 08:36:48 AM
Quote from: Twism86 on May 23, 2014, 08:46:45 AM
You wont have a problem getting rid of those clip-ons!!
Go with sonic or progressive spring. Get rid of the fuel filter. Change all fluids and put on new tires. Check the tank for rust. If you feel up to it clean the carbs and put in larger jets while you have them open. All of that will really freshen up that bike.
the 89 clipons as stated, ARE and always will be the holy grail of parts
Not to an 80+ year old rider yami, I have stock bars with risers. :icon_lol:
Quote from: gsJack on June 02, 2014, 08:18:27 AM
The Conti Motion is a radial tire and the Lasertec is a bias tire. A radial front with a bias rear is considered a bad mix but a bias front with a radial rear is OK. Your mix wouldn't pass inspection in EU but we don't have inspections here in OH but some states do.
How bad is a bad mix? They are both round and made of rubber. The old tires were bald and cracked. I was trying to keep the cost down.
Quote from: jen_ on June 02, 2014, 08:51:59 AM
Quote from: gsJack on June 02, 2014, 08:18:27 AM
The Conti Motion is a radial tire and the Lasertec is a bias tire. A radial front with a bias rear is considered a bad mix but a bias front with a radial rear is OK. Your mix wouldn't pass inspection in EU but we don't have inspections here in OH but some states do.
How bad is a bad mix? They are both round and made of rubber. The old tires were bald and cracked. I was trying to keep the cost down.
I suggested Roadriders when you said Lasertec Jen, the Lasertec are quite pricey here now. Local place that is online too for stock sizes:
Lasertec: $125, $143
Roadriders: $103, $116
Kenda K671: $76, $82
Check prices at AMT if you haven't bought yet, seem to be best prices right now:
http://www.americanmototire.com/catalog/
I put a Kenda K671 on the back of a CM400 I wanted to use another year once and my 02 GS had a new K657 on it when I bought it and it was only half worn when I put new radials on in the spring after putting 5k miles on the Kenda. I think the 671 are as good as the B'stone Excedra tires that came on your bike and on my 97 GS when they were new and I used them up. Worth considering if your price shopping for tires for moderate riding at legal speeds one up, might want a little better for a lot of 2 up riding though
Finally, back to your question, the radial bad mix can cause serious oversteer and loss of control when pushed to the limit. You'll probably never experience it yourself and I'll not worry about it myself unless I grow young again :icon_lol: but bike might not pass where they inspections.
Well, the tires are already on the wheels, so that's how it's gonna stay for a while. :embarassed:
So far:
-Changed the fork oil and fork seals. Think we did it right, but no test ride yet.
-New front brake pads on (HH). Tried to bleed the front brakes, but couldn't get any pressure to build up in the line. No fluid would come out the vent bolt on the caliper after many squeezes of brake lever (30+). The MC appears to be leaking at the junction with the lever. The little rubber boot thingie is cracked. Just a few drips at a time. I assume this is the problem? So replace the master cylinder?
-New handlebars are on but getting things arranged so the control cables are long enough has been a chore -- and now the MC has to come off again.
-New rubber is on front and back, wheels back on, and chain adjusted.
Still on the to do list for now is an oil change and chain lube. Almost ready to ride! Need to get those front breaks sorted!
If your master cylinder is leaking out of the piston area, you basically have 2 options: buy a rebuild kit and tear open the MC.....or find a newer MC on ebay and just swap them out. They are usually pretty cheap on eBay, but you're never 100% sure what you're getting.
Got a MC rebuild kit, then managed to shear the break lever pivot bolt in half taking it off. :technical: :2guns: :cry:
Now I remember why I HATE WRENCHING.
Hey Jen
I ran into a bunch of these issues on my 89, best thing I can recommend is a tap wrench (can be gotten almost anywhere). The bolts on my bike were giving me nothing but trouble that way (2 trips to machine shops to get busted bolts removed). The tap wrench made my life a lot easier though.
By the way all the dried out rubber grommets and cushions can be revived with dot4 brake fluid believe it or not just bathe them in it for a few minutes each and they are their old springy self.
Philipp
Honestly for the trouble I would just buy a master cyclinder..ie katana sv another gs one. On older bikes I ave had..I used to live near an amazing motorcycle junk yard and just used things that fit.
I shopped for a used Master Cylinder. Everything on fleabay for the few days I looked was in marginal condition, possibly no better than mine, or was $100+ dollars. The goal is to ride this bike this summer, not just work on it.
Tried to ride it a bit last night (with a random bolt jammed in holding on the brake lever). It runs ok. Some white smoke with the choke on. Lots of clicking/tapping in the engine. BUT it won't go into gear. The "friction zone" on the clutch lever is at the very end of the throw, I think. So I think I need to adjust the clutch cable? A product of switching handlebars/control locations?
I would say definitely check the clutch cable and adjust. Also here http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/111282525017?lpid=82 I would say it is a better choice then trying to fix what may be more time and money then its worth. I personally have never had a master cylinder go bad. I have changed them out due to downing old bikes more than anything. One thing that has helped me as of late with my bike fixes is get one thing done before moving on to something else..be it small or not.
Give it a complete 3 point clutch adjustment to get it right. If the push rod free play isn't OK it's not going to be right. Both my 97 bought new and my 02 bought with only 4k miles on it were off, too much push rod free play on both. Only needed 3 point adjustment a couple times in 80-100k miles on those bikes after it was once made right.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/GS500clutchadjustment_zps58ca4ce8.jpg
So it is on the road!
The left hand turn signal seems to have miraculously fixed itself.
The clutch lever seems to need a little more adjustment, but is functional.
Taking off the master cylinder to fix that seal, the BF managed to shear off the brake lever pivot bolt. Called ever motorcycle shop in town (4) and no one either had this bolt, or was willing to part with it. Ron Ayres had it...but wanted $8 shipping for a $2 bolt. Instead went to a cycle salvage yard in Denver (was going down there to see friends anyways) and got one for 50 cents. Whew!
The mirrors need adjusting in a bad way.
The throttle cable is too short, so when you turned the bars to the left, the throttle would open. :icon_eek:YIKES!!! Moved the throttle control in on the bars for now. The bars will need to be trimmed. I think the answer to the question: Will Superbike Bars fit on my 89 GS? is actually no. Not easily they won't.
The most annoying nagging problem is the idle speed. If you are moving along, then slow and pull in the clutch, the idle only goes down to 3000rpm. It will just sit there it will stay idling at 3000. If you put it in first and engage it a tiny bit then pull the clutch lever back in, it will drop down to ~1200 rpm (or just a slow, normal sounding idle). What is the dealio here? :dunno_black:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/mckennitt/bikes/barss_zps48d811a4.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/mckennitt/bikes/89GS500andtheDuc_zpsde7c99fa.jpg)
The 89 GS500e and a shiny new m796.
I am having the same issue as you right now and I can tell you the things to check right now would be any vacuum leaks, check your float height (u tube method), the small oring on the top of each carb in the corner is still there, and last thing I know about is check your valves.
For me I did all the above except the valves and I'm still having the issue so looks like I am opening it up this weekend :/
Hanging idle caused by too lean air/fuel mixture on 89-00 models that have old 2 circuit carbs. Most here would be tearing into the carbs to re-jet. I had it on my 97 bought new the first summer I had it and managed to adjust it out and never had it again for the 80k miles I rode it, stock all the way.
When coming to a stop if I had hanging idle I would reach under the carbs while sitting right there on the seat and slowly turn the idle speed down until it dropped back to normal. Slowly, very slowly and not a tad more than necessary or idle would be too low after it dropped. Had to repeat it a couple times before it was gone but it was gone for good then.
That was first summer on a new bike and only when hot on a hot days. Could be different on older bikes with possible air leaks, etc that need carb work but worth a try. Never had it on the 02 with the 3 circuit carbs.
I bought my gs that way and went through the carbs which fixed it. I think it was an Oring in my carbs that was almost disintegrated. It's been awhile so not 100% but after going through them it was good.
On an 89, check the actual rubber mounts between the motor and carbs - either they are old and need replaced (can find newer ones on eBay, so no need to buy brand new ones for big $$) or it could be a large ish oring between the rubber boots and engine. Older bikes tend to get a lot of air leaks around intake boots.
Is your throttle cable too short, or is it snagging on something? Simply rerouting it might help.
So we have gone from the annoying-but-not-fatal issue of a hanging idle, to full on fueling issues. Stranded on the side of the road type fueling issues.
It started with the bike behaving like it was out of gas once you got it over 20 mph or so. Sometimes you could stop, and then restart it, then nurse it along at 10 mpg, but roll on the gas, or upshift, and it would die again. Looking at the in-line fuel filter, it sometimes looked like there was no gas in there. Finally put the petcock on prime and rode home in first gear on the shoulder. There still seemed to be a little lugging, but not sure. Really just wanted to get it home.
So now we have pulled the carbs for cleaning. And probably we will change the type of fuel filter. There is some sediment in the current one. Now that the tank is off and the bike is everywhere, what else should we be looking for? We really just want to get it running and sell the beast to someone more mechanical. Don't want to do the valves. (didn't want to clean the carbs either, but here we are). The inside of the tank really doesn't look that bad. I see one rust spot.
So far all the carb boots and seals look good. Opening them up tonight.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/mckennitt/bikes/gs500carb_zps9955fa41.jpg)
Fuel filter..toss it.
Disassembled the carbs a bit. Found one of the springs under the top cover broken in half. Could this be the problem? Otherwise they look pretty clean.
That would cause you to be essentially running on one carb. I would replace the spring remove the fuel filter and see if that helps. I was running a identical filter and my bike was fine for a bit then after a while was having similar symptoms to yours. After removing the fuel filter I have not experienced it since (well except for one time I was a dummy and forgot to stop and get gas)
Quote from: gsJack on June 02, 2014, 08:42:43 AM
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on June 02, 2014, 08:36:48 AM
Quote from: Twism86 on May 23, 2014, 08:46:45 AM
You wont have a problem getting rid of those clip-ons!!
Go with sonic or progressive spring. Get rid of the fuel filter. Change all fluids and put on new tires. Check the tank for rust. If you feel up to it clean the carbs and put in larger jets while you have them open. All of that will really freshen up that bike.
the 89 clipons as stated, ARE and always will be the holy grail of parts
Not to an 80+ year old rider yami, I have stock bars with risers. :icon_lol:
you and me both jack. Never could get into the hunched over riding position