Just as the subject reads: what tips do you have for a beginner rider in regards to riding on the interstate?
I know that tip #1 is going to be "don't", which I entirely agree with, but let's say you are running a few minutes behind and you would be late to work if you took the back roads. I'm looking more for practical tips from experience, especially anything that you haven't seen posted on the interwebs before that you find useful/interesting/etc.
I'm primarily asking because my commute to work is probably safer and definitely shorter if I take a short leg of I-469 than if I take back roads (and the back roads are not really any nicer/funner than the highway). I don't foresee having any mental/physical issues with the higher speed (other than knowing that there's 4 times the energy available to "dissipate" at 80 than there is at 40 :icon_eek: ). I handled 65-70 without a second thought on my first street ride, which surprised me quite a bit (closet speed demon...? :icon_twisted: ). My biggest concern is how to deal with entrance and exit ramps, as there are still a few of those I fear when I'm in a car.
Thanks in advance for any tips.
As far as on-ramps, you typically have better acceleration than in a car so I find it easier to merge properly on a bike. If an off-ramp doesn't have a suitable braking distance, use the shoulder a little if safe, and/or be sure to signal a reasonable time before hand. There's the usual avoid cars' blind spots and try to think a good few seconds ahead too. Be sure to know how to get to prime/reserve quickly if needed.
Not a whole lot different than riding on most roads in my opinion.
Quote from: Badot on May 29, 2014, 12:22:15 PM
As far as on-ramps, you typically have better acceleration in a car so I find it easier to merge properly on a bike. If an off-ramp doesn't have a suitable braking distance, use the shoulder a little if safe, and/or be sure to signal a reasonable time before hand. There's the usual avoid cars' blind spots and try to think a good few seconds ahead too. Be sure to know how to get to prime/reserve quickly if needed.
Not a whole lot different than riding on most roads in my opinion.
Cool, I guess it is a bit easier to get to merging speed now that I think about it. It's more the cars I'm worried about. Some of these ramps (cloverleafs specifically) do not have enough room for a car to change between highway speed and cornering speed if they have the lane to themselves, let alone if there are half a dozen other entering/exiting cars attempting to use the same 50 meters of lane.
I never would have thought about the fuel supply, that's exactly why I wanted to ask this question. I will definitely start practicing reaching for my fuel valve when in the saddle to get familiar with it. It was second nature on the little 125cc starter in the MSF class, but I haven't messed with it on my GS500. Now I'm going to worry about running out of gas at the wrong time... :icon_eek:
I think the big key (not unlike other multilane roads), is to make yourself visible. Don't hang out in people's blind spots. Anything you can do to add visibility is helpful. I wear a hi-viz vest, and have now added Hyper-Lite LEDs that flash with the application of the brake.
The interstate really isn't that different from other roads. In many ways it can be safer since everyone is at least traveling in the same direction with no abrupt starts and stops or intersections. You just want to be comfortable with manuvering your bike at higher speeds, dealing with the wind noise and feel, and how to brake or downshift and accelerate to stay out of trouble. Be aware of your surroundings at all times.
+1 to Bomb. I think highways are generally safer (fewer animals, nobody pulling out of a driveway, etc.). One thing I'd like to add though: be aware of your surroundings......especially around a "trouble" vehicle. People on cell phones, pickup truck loaded with miscellaneous junk ready to overflow, and the like.
Some people don't mind riding near semi trucks, but I tend to steer clear of them. The wind blast coming around them us bad enough and then you have tire treads / chains / the load itself.
The cloverleaf style 270° turns can be a little disconcerting on the bike at first, especially keeping in mind that you will be turning your head rearward to look for traffic flow while making the turn.
Just as in a car your attention should be focused not only on finding a hole you can slip into, but the speed of approaching traffic and on the condition of the entrance ramp and acceleration lane (is someone ahead of you going slow? Is there construction? Is it clear? Road hazards?).
You can accelerate a lot faster than the average car, so you can use the bike to get you out of trouble and dart in front if you have to. But play it safe, better to tap the brakes and accelerate back up to speed quickly to slip in behind a semi trailer then try to beat the road to get in front of it. Only you can say what you are comfortable doing when merging.
Overall the technique is much the same as in a car, just be aware that you are much less visible. This means it's critical to use your indicator, and if possible aim for the biggest gap available rather than try to slip in between two cars because you can physically fit.
Exit ramps are a lot easier, just bear in mind that you have a lot less traction than a car so turning while applying the brakes can lead to disaster faster than you can say "oh crap!!" It's good practice to slow down a handful more than you would in a car in the deceleration lane before making the bank, that way if there is an obstacle or a problem you can straighten out and come to a stop safely without running into the concrete barrier.
When actually on the interstate, keep a safe distance from all cars around you (you might be able to accelerate faster than them but they sure as hell can stop faster than you), use your lane positioning to ward off people who might be tempted to share your lane (ie, take the left side of the lane in the far right lane, and take the right side of the lane in the far left lane), be aware of blind spots. If you can see the driver's face in their mirror, they can see you if they mirror check. If You can't see their face, either move back so you are behind them in case they decide to merge into you, or speed up and pass them so you are in front. Never ride along side another car.
Be aware of the turbulent drafts that large vehicles like semis and RVs make when they pass you, especially at higher speeds. Be prepared to position yourself in your lane to avoid or lessen the effect of the winds pushing you, a rider caught off guard can easily loose control and eat pavement.
Likewise, be wary of elevated sections of expressway (like over a large mining quarry) which can have sudden and powerful cross-winds. You may want to duck down low to the bike to avoid the brunt of these.
Know that you are a lot less visible than a car, if traffic is slowing in front of you don't assume the drivers behind you notice it. I've taken to "pulsing" my brake lightly a few times to flash my tail tight before applying my brake when I know I'll be slowing down, and when I am stuck moving slower than the posted speed limit I like to serpentine in my lane slightly to be more visible to drivers behind me. Lateral movement in a straight lane of traffic is an eye catcher.
Know your limitations. It might be fun to drive in excess of the posted limit in the far left ultra fast lane with all the crazies, but until you are comfortable with the multi-ton death machines surrounding you DON'T DO IT!
Always have an exit planned out. Perfect scenario, let me share a story with you. I am on I-80 heading West and it's 4 lanes across in my direction of travel. I am in lane 2 (as in |1|2|3|4|), just cruising along. I am slowly passing one of those large semi-truck tow-trucks (like this one http://www.brackenautotech.com/wp-content/themes/brackens/images/semi_tow2.jpg) in lane 3.
As I am just past his rear wheels, I see his left indicator switch on. First idea was to slow down and let him in, but I look in my mirror and I have a guy riding my ass and if I brake he might slam into me. So I think, get over. Well, there's a big ass Ford Explorer directly to my left in lane 1. Now the truck starts merging into my lane! My last option at this point is to gun it and race ahead, but there's a car in front of me that this truck would be slipping in just behind.
So, I'm f'd. All I can do is lay on the horn. I also downshift a couple of times so I am in the power band and ready to dart anywhere. Big rig doesn't hear me, continues encroaching on my lane, I hear engine wind up to my left and Explorer guns it straight ahead (he must have heard me and looked right and saw what was going down and made me a pocket). I slip in just behind Explorer, after I'm in that lane Big rig realizes what happened and goes back to lane 3. I slow down a bit to give me space between my front wheel and the back bumper of the Explorer, and continue in the left lane thinking that with shoulder to my left and traffic to my right I can only be attacked from one direction and in an emergency I can escape to the shoulder.
My heart was about ready to explode after that, and the whole situation only took place over the course of about 2 seconds so things can go sour really fast.
What would I have done differently now? A lot of things. I would have noticed the Explorer to my left and not matched his speed, I would have seen the rig to my right going slower than me and passed it with authority rather than lazily pass it. I would have been in my mirrors and seen the car tailgating me then either changed lanes to avoid a situation or slow down and let the driver behind me know he is making me uncomfortable with a "back it up" hand gesture. (and no, I don't mean flipping him off)
Always leave yourself somewhere to go, and always assume that drivers are oblivious to your presence. Make yourself seen and heard (I pulled out my muffler and bought a better horn that weekend), don't trap yourself, and sometimes in heavy traffic it is better to keep to the outside lanes since people will be trying to change lanes and go for gaps in the traffic constantly. It's not worth dying over someone being in a rush and not checking their mirrors before changing lanes. Do yourself a favor, and stay out of everyone's way.
Now that I made a scary situation even scarier, RELAX! It's not that bad as long as you approach the situation with caution and keep your wits about you and your head on a swivel.
I rode my GS500 to work and back down a ~20 mile stretch of I-294/I-80 nearly every day of good weather last year, a few days of stormy weather, and even into the months where it's a touch too cold to even think of staying outside for long let alone riding a motorcycle, and have a big fat round 0 for the number of incidents that caused harm to me, my bike, or another person and their vehicle. I've gotten the crap scared out of me a small handful of times, but now that I know what to look for when on the bike it's just another day in the life.
Other people are right, in a lot of ways surface streets are more hazardous than expressway driving. But a fender bender down the road is a lot less likely to end in a hospital than a fender bender on the interstate. There might be fewer hazards to look out for, but there are still plenty and the severity of them can be much higher.
All you can do it take it slow and play it safe.
Know that the gs, can be affected hy wind, draft, semis, tornados lol, if faired, even naked, still a bit. Try CAREFULLY. Preferably at off peak times
Far out Watcher! , I thought I had posted and forgotten I did it! Lol. .
OP .. be extra vigilant, without being fearful. .. and keep your shoulders/arms relaxed and not all tensed up! .. its hard to react safely with a cramp!
sent by willpower and a phone
Quote from: Janx101 on May 29, 2014, 11:52:28 PM
...and keep your shoulders/arms relaxed and not all tensed up! .. its hard to react safely with a cramp!
That's good advice anytime.
Thanks for all of the advice, guys. That is a frightening/enlightening story, Watcher. It reminds me of those Final Destination films where everything stacks up just perfectly to kill the characters. Thank God for the guy in the Explorer, he definitely deserves a six pack :cheers:
The MSF is definitely teaching things right: every accident is the result of a combination of many factors. The one accident I've been in woke me up to that. There was a mini-blizzard in early spring after a warm-spell, so the roads were much worse than they would be in winter for the same amount of snow. I was in the intersection in the left turn lane waiting to turn (we can claim the intersection here in IN, not sure about elsewhere), and the light turned yellow. I waited for a second or two and judged that all of the oncoming cars were too far to make it without running the red, so I started turning. By the time I noticed that this lady wasn't going to stop it was too late and my big old V6 Jetta couldn't get enough traction to get out of the way. Let's just say I was glad to have my cage that day, and I no longer count on others doing the right thing, and I don't rely on being in the right to keep me safe.
I'll probably allow myself more experience on the main roads before I attempt the highway for now. I should be getting my armored jacket and pants today (and a new helmet), and I'd feel safer on the interstate with them.
Thanks again for the shared wisdom.
Quote from: bombsquad83 on May 30, 2014, 05:45:30 AM
Quote from: Janx101 on May 29, 2014, 11:52:28 PM
...and keep your shoulders/arms relaxed and not all tensed up! .. its hard to react safely with a cramp!
That's good advice anytime.
Back to this point too. It's not just good for your body, it's good for the bike's handling. If you are tense on the bars, then the front end can't make the small adjustments it wants to on its own, and you end up taking up additional traction by holding it still. Any available traction that you eat up is less you can use to brake or turn.
Quote from: DoktoroKiu on May 30, 2014, 06:02:10 AM
I waited for a second or two and judged that all of the oncoming cars were too far to make it without running the red, so I started turning. By the time I noticed that this lady wasn't going to stop it was too late and my big old V6 Jetta couldn't get enough traction to get out of the way. Let's just say I was glad to have my cage that day, and I no longer count on others doing the right thing, and I don't rely on being in the right to keep me safe.
Unfortunately I have learned to assume the oncoming traffic is going to run the light even if it turns red. I've seen stuff like you've described way too often to assume otherwise. Luckily, I haven't been directly involved to date.
As a result, I wait until I see the oncoming vehicle's front suspension dip as they apply their brakes before I go. That tells me they are intending to stop.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: bombsquad83 on May 30, 2014, 06:07:09 AM
Quote from: bombsquad83 on May 30, 2014, 05:45:30 AM
Quote from: Janx101 on May 29, 2014, 11:52:28 PM
...and keep your shoulders/arms relaxed and not all tensed up! .. its hard to react safely with a cramp!
That's good advice anytime.
Back to this point too. It's not just good for your body, it's good for the bike's handling. If you are tense on the bars, then the front end can't make the small adjustments it wants to on its own, and you end up taking up additional traction by holding it still. Any available traction that you eat up is less you can use to brake or turn.
I do have to remind myself to loosen up a bit, but most of my tightness is in the hands (especially the clutch hand). It seems about as counter-intuitive as counter-steering when you first hear it, but it makes sense from a dynamics standpoint (you're preventing the bike from keeping itself balanced). It's also hard to get into the mindset of accelerating through turns to keep the suspension loaded properly, even when I know it is better.
Quote from: Janx101 on May 29, 2014, 11:52:28 PM
Far out Watcher! , I thought I had posted and forgotten I did it! Lol. .
OP .. be extra vigilant, without being fearful. .. and keep your shoulders/arms relaxed and not all tensed up! .. its hard to react safely with a cramp!
sent by willpower and a phone
^this ^ always
I got an unexpected dose of interstate travel when riding on Saturday. I went with one other guy on a 30-minute-or-so ride of "old 30" out to Columbia City, but the road was in bad condition so we decided to come back on "new 30", which happens to be a dual lane highway with a posted speed of 60. I'm not sure why, but everyone was doing 75-85, and even the slow semi trucks were all doing better than 75! :icon_eek:
I had one encounter with wind turbulence when passing one semi, but I didn't ever feel out of control. Another bad situation unfolded when another bike ahead of us slowed down rapidly for a turn and left us with traffic bearing down on us from behind.
I think the most dangerous part for me is the wind noise. I felt noticeably fatigued from it and had to constantly tuck in under the cowling, which would be fine if I weren't in full gear and in need of airflow (high of 88). I have since rectified this situation by ordering some good plugs meant for riding and a set of mesh riding gear to handle 80 degree plus heat.
I definitely can tell I was tense and gripping the handlebars too firmly, because I had significant hand buzz after the ride.
The more you do it, the easier it gets...
I forgot to bring up ear protection, helmets cut noise down a bit but aren't designed to do so, and can actually create a lot of wind noise themselves.
Some helmets are better than others and peoples tolerances on noise are all different...
Quote from: Watcher on June 02, 2014, 10:53:35 AM
The more you do it, the easier it gets...
I forgot to bring up ear protection, helmets cut noise down a bit but aren't designed to do so, and can actually create a lot of wind noise themselves.
Some helmets are better than others and peoples tolerances on noise are all different...
My helmet is a cheaper model, and it is definitely loud. From my google-fu it looks like no helmets adequately reduce the noise to safe levels. At highway speeds you get over 100 dB of wind noise, which isn't safe for even 15 minutes of exposure without sustaining permanent hearing damage.
The foam industrial ear plugs work good for this without insulating your ears from the outsidenworld too much
Unfortunately for me life as a gigging percussionist and 2 years as a machinist already ruined my hearing.
I regret it and I plug up now when its loud to reduce any further damage, but in my helmet with my exhaust at 75mph the noise level doesn't cause me discomfort so I rarely wear plugs under my helmet unless I have music going and am thus wearing earbuds...
Relish the fact you still have good hearing, protect it while you can. Once it goes it doesn't come back.
Quote from: DoktoroKiu on June 02, 2014, 09:28:31 AM
I'm not sure why, but everyone was doing 75-85, and even the slow semi trucks were all doing better than 75! :icon_eek:
If you haven't heard, the speedo on the GS is about 10% fast. So when it says you are going 75, you are probably closer to 68. That could explain why you thought all the cars were traveling so fast.
Quote from: bombsquad83 on June 02, 2014, 02:02:20 PM
Quote from: DoktoroKiu on June 02, 2014, 09:28:31 AM
I'm not sure why, but everyone was doing 75-85, and even the slow semi trucks were all doing better than 75! :icon_eek:
If you haven't heard, the speedo on the GS is about 10% fast. So when it says you are going 75, you are probably closer to 68. That could explain why you thought all the cars were traveling so fast.
Really? That's interesting. Has anyone ever looked into replacing the gauge face with a new one that has been corrected? If the face isn't too hard to get at it wouldn't be too hard to print a new speedo face that has been corrected.
Quote from: DoktoroKiu on June 02, 2014, 02:24:37 PM
Quote from: bombsquad83 on June 02, 2014, 02:02:20 PM
Quote from: DoktoroKiu on June 02, 2014, 09:28:31 AM
I'm not sure why, but everyone was doing 75-85, and even the slow semi trucks were all doing better than 75! :icon_eek:
If you haven't heard, the speedo on the GS is about 10% fast. So when it says you are going 75, you are probably closer to 68. That could explain why you thought all the cars were traveling so fast.
Really? That's interesting. Has anyone ever looked into replacing the gauge face with a new one that has been corrected? If the face isn't too hard to get at it wouldn't be too hard to print a new speedo face that has been corrected.
Typical of most Japanese motorcycles. The only way to correct it is to, as you mentioned, make a new face on the gauge. Easier would probably be use something like fluorescent nail polish and make tiny marks on the existing face where "actual speed" is. There might be a way to correct the gearing at the front wheel but I've not seen anyone do it. Most people pretty much live with it. Plus, if you physically correct the gearing, then your odometer will be off.
Yup. The speedo reads high but the odometer is correct. :)
It's a mechanical speedometer so it's off by a certain percentage. The best way to determine the actual percentage would be to download a GPS speedometer for your phone (one that has tracking available). Then, set off with it at "0" and slowly speed up to 50MPH and hold it at 50MPH for about 10 seconds without going past 50MPH. Then stop. Go back, read the max speed recorded, then you'll know exactly how "off" the speedometer is. From there you can calculate the percentage and apply it to all speeds. So say it's off by 5MPH at 50MPH, then logically at 100MPH it would be off by 10mph. That would give you a 10% error. Hopefully it's 10% because that would be easy to figure out in your head as you're riding without needing to modify anything.
Personally I figure it's probably 10% error, since most of my other bikes were somewhere between 9-10% off, and I just go with that.
Quote from: bombsquad83 on June 02, 2014, 02:02:20 PMIf you haven't heard, the speedo on the GS is about 10% fast. So when it says you are going 75, you are probably closer to 68. That could explain why you thought all the cars were traveling so fast.
*Typically. Don't take this as fact until you verify it in some way :tongue2:
As far as interstate riding, which I've done a LOT of, I personally say get in front of everyone when possible and DO NOT ride along-side another car. Period. Some fuckwit is just waiting to merge into your lane without looking and turn you into roadkill.
Watch the distance between the other vehicles' tires and the lines between the lanes while changing lanes if near another vehicle. Personally, I never look at the person driving, I'm always watching tires when I'm riding. If the distance between their tires and the lines for the lanes starts to reduce, I start making my escape route.
If someone decides to crowd your lane, don't panic, don't fixate on the vehicle. You're tiny compared to them and you have a good amount of braking/acceleration ability versus them. I'm the type of person that drops the hammer before I hit the brakes (meaning I accelerate away rather than trying to brake suddenly). Your experience may differ. That's just me personally.
I once ended up between two vehicles because someone, in an enormous SUV no less, decided they weren't going to exit and crossed over the extra space that isn't even a lane and into my lane (highly illegal). Their mirror brushed my shoulder pad and I was within arm's length of the other vehicle. That close to turning me into a pancake.
Best part of that experience?? They gave ME the f%$king FINGER and yelled out the window at me.
Lesson learned: people that drive cars are ALL trying to kill me.
Quote from: Kijona on June 02, 2014, 02:58:31 PM
Lesson learned: people that drive cars are ALL trying to kill me.
If you take this to heart, you will be as safe as humanly possible.
In regards to the speedometer "fix": I know the speedometer on older bikes come apart.....but it's not easy. The manufacturers just didn't have any reason to make it accessible.
Instead of trying to open up and replace the face, install a 110/80-17" tire. The added circumference will help to make the speed accurate.
Quote from: DoktoroKiu on June 02, 2014, 02:24:37 PM
Quote from: bombsquad83 on June 02, 2014, 02:02:20 PM
Quote from: DoktoroKiu on June 02, 2014, 09:28:31 AM
I'm not sure why, but everyone was doing 75-85, and even the slow semi trucks were all doing better than 75! :icon_eek:
If you haven't heard, the speedo on the GS is about 10% fast. So when it says you are going 75, you are probably closer to 68. That could explain why you thought all the cars were traveling so fast.
Really? That's interesting. Has anyone ever looked into replacing the gauge face with a new one that has been corrected? If the face isn't too hard to get at it wouldn't be too hard to print a new speedo face that has been corrected.
was told it was 10% off id not worry tbh about changing the gauge face unless you're that anal about correctness. would be easier setting up a digital speedometer, which could in itself be off aq bit. a gps also works great.
+1 Rich
110/80 cuts the approx. 10% speedometer error in half, I've used a lot of that size.
Quote from: gsJack on June 02, 2014, 04:56:22 PM
+1 Rich
110/80 cuts the approx. 10% speedometer error in half, I've used a lot of that size.
Honestly beloved tire maestro, ive done this as well over the years, not knowing this.
Guys, and gals, gsjack here knows all things tire, and as of recently, all things long mileage. if he tells you something regarding our beloved gs, odds are it is correct. ive figured this out after knowing the guy over many years here. It was hell trying to get you back after the one person pissed you off. glad you are here to stay my friend.
Aaron
If 10% off means an indicated 55 is actually 50, I can live with that. At least in my part of Illinois, 5 over the limit is totally acceptable and common practice.
If my indicated 5 over is actually right on, it'll keep me out of trouble if I travel through an area that is more strict about their speeding laws.
Quote from: Kijona on June 02, 2014, 02:58:31 PM
I once ended up between two vehicles because someone, in an enormous SUV no less, decided they weren't going to exit and crossed over the extra space that isn't even a lane and into my lane (highly illegal). Their mirror brushed my shoulder pad and I was within arm's length of the other vehicle. That close to turning me into a pancake.
Best part of that experience?? They gave ME the f%$king FINGER and yelled out the window at me.
Lesson learned: people that drive cars are ALL trying to kill me.
Wow, I would be pissed if they gave me the fraking finger after that. :mad:
I would probably have followed them wherever they were going just to mess with them. I've been thinking of getting a collapsible baton for cases like this, but I'm afraid I'd end up getting myself in trouble. As long as I fear for my life it's self defense, right? :icon_twisted:
Getting merged into is not justifiable cause for assault and battery.
Having the baton displayed on the side of the bike might ward off people who would mess with you if they see it and recognise it, but to actually use it they'd have to, like, cut you off, stop, get out of their vehicle, approach you, and at least verbally threaten you.
Following them to mess with them might put you even deeper in harms way or get you picked up for being aggressive. The best thing to do is just write it off as they're a fracking a-hole and be glad you are still alive and upright.
I'm planning on getting a helmet camera this summer so I can properly record incidents and file police reports.
Quote from: Watcher on June 03, 2014, 10:49:55 AM
Getting merged into is not justifiable cause for assault and battery.
Having the baton displayed on the side of the bike might ward off people who would mess with you if they see it and recognise it, but to actually use it they'd have to, like, cut you off, stop, get out of their vehicle, approach you, and at least verbally threaten you.
Following them to mess with them might put you even deeper in harms way or get you picked up for being aggressive. The best thing to do is just write it off as they're a fracking a-hole and be glad you are still alive and upright.
I'm planning on getting a helmet camera this summer so I can properly record incidents and file police reports.
I was primarily joking, as I envision extending the baton as a way to tell a tailgater what you think of him, and in the worst case as a way to scare off any would-be road-rage incidents. A helmet cam is a good idea and I have also been considering getting one of those (got to get all my other gear first).
I would follow them from a safe distance, of course. It isn't a crime to ride where you want, even if that happens to be where someone else is driving. I don't mean to say it wouldn't be a very bad idea, though. :icon_twisted:
My current strategy is to give them the old one-finger hello and put as much distance and time between myself and them as possible. I thankfully haven't had to use it yet.
All jocularity aside, even if they deserve it the kinds of people who are aggressive drivers are the kinds of people who get set off by having foul language and gestures shot at them. Being aggressive back just fuels the rage, its infinitely better to diffuse the situation than escalate it. Especially considering a hard left can kill you in one swipe.
The baton extension thing as a back off gesture... Well, for one thing have you ever used one of those batons? They take a bit of force to open and usually to collapse them you need to "stab" the ground with it. Deployment on a bike might very well cost you your baton at the least and losing control at the worst. Not to mention it could be considered brandishing a weapon which can get you arrested.
Its not really something to joke about. Unless backed into a corner you should, as a good rider, always be submissive to aggressive drivers.
If I ever had a situation where I am in fear for my life and the aggressor is approaching me on foot, I'd point my bike at them, rev it way up, and dump the clutch so they take the bike to the torso. You can't fight when on a bike, at least not very well, and I can't CCW just yet. My bike is the heaviest thing I can throw at someone, it will be used when necessary.
I have used (messed around with not actually "used") one, and I'm thinking more for situations where you are stopped and would at least have the potential to use it safely (although there are some button-release models). I usually carry a knife if I'm unable to CCW (to work, gov't building, etc.), but I like the baton as more of a less-lethal weapon and it's easier to hold with riding gloves on. A knife is definitely a lethal weapon while a baton is not really addressed in Indiana as far as I have been able to find.
As for the law, the only pertinent clauses in the Indiana code relate to Intimidation, but intimidation is only present if I'm putting the other person in fear of retaliation for a prior lawful act (or other acts unrelated to this situation). If they were intimidating me previously then all bets are off. Although I doubt brandishing would even work, as in my experience with concealed carry most people are completely oblivious to what other people have/do. I can't tell you how many times I've stooped to get something off a low shelf at the store to find that my gun was totally showing and nobody noticed.
I just found out that Indiana has an aggressive driving statute, where if you do 3 things on a list you are in violation. Following too closely and unsafe operation get a good majority of A-holes 2/3 the way there. If the initial confrontation was a failure to yield you could make a case for 3/3. I suppose that's where the go-pro would come in handy.
Now for me to feel threatened would have to be something as bad or worse than that highway situation (I wouldn't know if they didn't intend to almost crush me if they flip me off and yell at me afterward). I was followed Very closely by a car last night when riding with a buddy and I only did the slow down speed up routine to try and send him the message (which he didn't get). I wanted to flip him off but didn't. :angel:
Good idea about using the bike in a bad situation, and good luck with the CCW.
Sorry if I come across as arrogant or immature, I just hate it when people get away with being a$$holes. I'm actually quite easygoing when I'm not playing a BADA$$ on internet forums. :D
Quote from: DoktoroKiu on June 04, 2014, 07:05:25 AM
I was followed Very closely by a car last night when riding with a buddy and I only did the slow down speed up routine to try and send him the message (which he didn't get). I wanted to flip him off but didn't. :angel:
As much as it sucks, giving a nice long signal warning and pulling off the road where safe tends to be quicker, safer, and less stressful than any other method I've found.
As far as weapons on bikes... I'll put it this way. As soon as you pull any form of weapon on someone, whether you intend to use it or not, they can generally pull a gun and shoot you and/or ram you with no repercussions.
Rule of thumb is if you pull a weapon, you better be unquestionably within your right to do so and you better make good use of it before the other party can retaliate, period, for numerous reasons. It's definitely not something to mess around with.
+1 Badot, my point exactly. Don't escalate the situation, act to diffuse it, only pull a weapon in self defense and if in real fear for your life from an individual. Fear for your life due to aggressive driving is one thing, fear for your life because this guy is intentionally pursuing me with intent to run me down or has left his vehicle and come running up threatening me is quite another...
Play it safe, only turn to violence when there is no other course of action.
Quote from: Watcher on June 03, 2014, 03:40:13 PM
All jocularity aside, even if they deserve it the kinds of people who are aggressive drivers are the kinds of people who get set off by having foul language and gestures shot at them. Being aggressive back just fuels the rage, its infinitely better to diffuse the situation than escalate it. Especially considering a hard left can kill you in one swipe.
The baton extension thing as a back off gesture... Well, for one thing have you ever used one of those batons? They take a bit of force to open and usually to collapse them you need to "stab" the ground with it. Deployment on a bike might very well cost you your baton at the least and losing control at the worst. Not to mention it could be considered brandishing a weapon which can get you arrested.
Its not really something to joke about. Unless backed into a corner you should, as a good rider, always be submissive to aggressive drivers.
If I ever had a situation where I am in fear for my life and the aggressor is approaching me on foot, I'd point my bike at them, rev it way up, and dump the clutch so they take the bike to the torso. You can't fight when on a bike, at least not very well, and I can't CCW just yet. My bike is the heaviest thing I can throw at someone, it will be used when necessary.
wanna piss off a person firing off the one finger salute?, just wave at em :)
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on June 04, 2014, 10:06:34 PM
wanna piss off a person firing off the one finger salute?, just wave at em :)
Hah, humor is indeed one of the best ways to respond to an insult (especially self-deprecating humor). It frustrates the insulter more than any counter-insult. Thanks yama for the reminder.
The ancient philosophers took this to the extreme. One time when Cato was arguing a point, his opponent Lentulus spit in his face. Instead of getting angry or returning the favor, Cato wiped it off and responded with "I will swear to anyone, Lentulus, that people are wrong to say that you cannot use your mouth!"
Socrates himself once randomly had his ears boxed by someone and, instead of getting angry, he made a joke about how much of a nuisance it is that when we go out in public we can never be sure whether or not to wear a helmet. (Source: "A Guide to the Good Life" by Irvine, which I highly recommend)
However, being tailgated by an aggressive driver is not an insult per-se, but I stand corrected about the response to being flipped off and yelled at. It would make my day to see their response when you just happily wave back at them. :D
It would be even better if you had one of those smiley-face Lego-guy visor stickers.
Quote from: Badot on June 04, 2014, 08:57:43 PM
Quote from: DoktoroKiu on June 04, 2014, 07:05:25 AM
I was followed Very closely by a car last night when riding with a buddy and I only did the slow down speed up routine to try and send him the message (which he didn't get). I wanted to flip him off but didn't. :angel:
As much as it sucks, giving a nice long signal warning and pulling off the road where safe tends to be quicker, safer, and less stressful than any other method I've found.
As far as weapons on bikes... I'll put it this way. As soon as you pull any form of weapon on someone, whether you intend to use it or not, they can generally pull a gun and shoot you and/or ram you with no repercussions.
Rule of thumb is if you pull a weapon, you better be unquestionably within your right to do so and you better make good use of it before the other party can retaliate, period, for numerous reasons. It's definitely not something to mess around with.
I understand the laws around the matter, but if I can de-escalate a situation by showing that I am not defenseless I will choose that route if it spares the use of deadly force. Just because it's legally safer to shoot if you draw your gun doesn't make it right to do so if simply the threat is enough to stop them (stopping is the goal, anyway). I know it's a very "you know it when you see it" type of situation where this approach would work, so I'm more saying that I keep it on the table as an option than that it is my go-to move. De-escalation by exiting (or completely avoiding) the situation clearly comes first, though.
I agree with Watcher that it would take me fearing for my life due to
intentionally aggressive driving before I'd feel the need to take a more aggressive approach to defend myself. I'm thinking more along the lines of some helmet-cam footage I've seen of violent road-rage against lane-splitting cyclists/motorcyclists (where it is legal to do so). This would be another know-it-when-see-it situation, where avoidance was unsafe/impossible. The unfortunate incident in NY last year where the Range Rover ran over several bikers is evidence enough that aggressive driving is enough to justify that you are in fear for your life. The guy paralyzed a man and got off with no charges. (the bikers were WAY in the wrong on this one, though)
The guy that was tailgating me in my example had been doing so for maybe 5 miles of curvy country roads with many blind turns from a distance of about 15 feet, so I was
quite concerned with it but I'm fairly certain the guy was just an idiot just following taillights and would do the same to a car without realizing it. He wasn't revving or making any other aggressive gestures. It was actually the other rider with me who tried the slow-down-speed-up routine to get him to back off, but the idiot just stayed close and probably had no idea what was going on anyway. We didn't pull the slow-down speed-up routine until we got to some city roads, but admittedly we should have probably just pulled over and gotten the hell away from him.
Guess you all saw that one of those in court a week or so back in regard to the NY road-rage incident is a serving police officer? Fascinating.
Quote from: DoktoroKiu on June 05, 2014, 09:27:30 AM
Quote from: Badot on June 04, 2014, 08:57:43 PM
Quote from: DoktoroKiu on June 04, 2014, 07:05:25 AM
I was followed Very closely by a car last night when riding with a buddy and I only did the slow down speed up routine to try and send him the message (which he didn't get). I wanted to flip him off but didn't. :angel:
As much as it sucks, giving a nice long signal warning and pulling off the road where safe tends to be quicker, safer, and less stressful than any other method I've found.
As far as weapons on bikes... I'll put it this way. As soon as you pull any form of weapon on someone, whether you intend to use it or not, they can generally pull a gun and shoot you and/or ram you with no repercussions.
Rule of thumb is if you pull a weapon, you better be unquestionably within your right to do so and you better make good use of it before the other party can retaliate, period, for numerous reasons. It's definitely not something to mess around with.
I understand the laws around the matter, but if I can de-escalate a situation by showing that I am not defenseless I will choose that route if it spares the use of deadly force. Just because it's legally safer to shoot if you draw your gun doesn't make it right to do so if simply the threat is enough to stop them (stopping is the goal, anyway). I know it's a very "you know it when you see it" type of situation where this approach would work, so I'm more saying that I keep it on the table as an option than that it is my go-to move. De-escalation by exiting (or completely avoiding) the situation clearly comes first, though.
I agree with Watcher that it would take me fearing for my life due to intentionally aggressive driving before I'd feel the need to take a more aggressive approach to defend myself. I'm thinking more along the lines of some helmet-cam footage I've seen of violent road-rage against lane-splitting cyclists/motorcyclists (where it is legal to do so). This would be another know-it-when-see-it situation, where avoidance was unsafe/impossible. The unfortunate incident in NY last year where the Range Rover ran over several bikers is evidence enough that aggressive driving is enough to justify that you are in fear for your life. The guy paralyzed a man and got off with no charges. (the bikers were WAY in the wrong on this one, though)
The guy that was tailgating me in my example had been doing so for maybe 5 miles of curvy country roads with many blind turns from a distance of about 15 feet, so I was quite concerned with it but I'm fairly certain the guy was just an idiot just following taillights and would do the same to a car without realizing it. He wasn't revving or making any other aggressive gestures. It was actually the other rider with me who tried the slow-down-speed-up routine to get him to back off, but the idiot just stayed close and probably had no idea what was going on anyway. We didn't pull the slow-down speed-up routine until we got to some city roads, but admittedly we should have probably just pulled over and gotten the hell away from him.
It's never a good thing when you have to produce a firearm. I myself have a license to carry a firearm, and there have been times I was glad I was. That being said, at least here where I live, it definitely would be wise to avoid anything of the nature on the roadways. If you open fire on a vehicle, or even produce some kind of weapon on the roadway, you're opening yourself up for a very bad day in court - that's not to say that you wouldn't be able to explain it away; it just would best to avoid that situation at all costs.
There's been a few times where I've been confronted on the roadways. It hasn't happened on a motorcycle, but has definitely happened in my vehicle. In every instance, I was approached while sitting in my own vehicle. I did not get out of my vehicle at any point (bad idea to get out - an argument could be made that you could have avoided the situation but escalated by getting out). In every instance, it wasn't even necessary to produce any weapons. Just letting them see I was reaching for something and coupling it with a serious look and tone while saying "You need to back away." completely dissolved the situation. Even still, my next plan in those situations, was never to actually produce a weapon - it would be to either open the door and hit them with it, or simply drive away if I could. Only if I was in grave danger would I be willing to produce a weapon. Even still, there was a situation where someone approached my vehicle with a tire iron. In that situation I simply drove away. No sense in making things worse.