So I was doing some research on wind noise last night, because even with my new earplugs I had some ringing after riding a cumulative 1.5 to 2 hours yesterday. After commuting to work and the gym I went on a short ride through the country with my friend, and I somehow stumbled upon the fact that when I shrug my shoulders my wind noise almost completely vanishes. This is at 60 mph even, and I would say it is at least as quiet as tucking under the cowling/windscreen, if not more so.
So when I arrived home I immediately began searching for gaiters or other products made specifically for reducing helmet noise, and I came across this Windjammer product. You attach it to the bottom of the outside of your helmet and it helps to make a better seal around your neck to eliminate the noise-causing turbulence that the bottom of the helmet makes. I also found a lot of anecdotal evidence that gaiters in cold weather similarly reduce wind noise.
One search led to another, and I eventually stumbled upon a thread which quoted some study done by Arai that over 70% of non-professional motorcycle riders wear helmets that are at least one size too large. If you don't have a super tight fit it can be a large cause of noise. The helmet can move around and resonate easier, and the extra gaps around the neck create a lot of noise (and allow it through to your ears even). That's not to mention the fact that a poorly fitting helmet will most likely come off in a crash (even with the chin strap securely on). I know it's anecdotal, but the poster was an EMT and had witnessed multiple cases where a motorcyclist lost his helmet in a crash with the chin strap on, even with just hitting the ground with no extenuating circumstances.
I never measured my actual head size before getting my helmet at the shop, but at around 23" I am right between a medium and a large according to Scorpion's chart (my helmet is a large). I did a few of the recommended tests, and while not obviously too big I am able to move it more than I should on my head, even with the air pump tightening thing active. I'm probably going to try on a medium of the same helmet today and see if I should drop down a size. I can't imagine a tighter helmet fitting, but apparently that's what it's supposed to feel like. I can't even blame the sales guy, because I'm so on-the-edge in sizes that the un-broken-in large was a great fit. What scares me more is that the large used HJC helmet I had before was even less snug...
I know it might hurt to have to buy another new helmet so soon, but I'd rather be $200 poorer than dead because my helmet slid off when I needed it most. If it helps with wind noise it would be worth the money all for that IMHO.
If you know anyone in need of a large barely 2-week-old Scorpion EXO 500 (blue, white, and black), let me know. I'll make a great deal on it, as I'm somewhat of a minimalist and hate to keep things around that are not useful to me and would be to others. (I'll post it in the WTS area once I'm certain I need a new one)
I have an HJC CL-16, and while I do hear plenty of noise, I have never had issues with ringing in my ears or any other ill effects even after riding 70 mph for an hour or so on my naked GS. You should definitely get the more snugly fitting helmet if you are between sizes. I have never had another helmet to compare wind noise, but I will say that I'm generally happy with mine. Especially the pinlock system. I never have fogging issues.
If a new helmet doesn't feel too tight when first used it's too loose. They all loosen up quickly in a week or two maybe a month or so depending on how much you ride. If it remains too tight and causes headaches then it is too tight.
I've never ordered a helmet online and have bought the last 6 at the same local place. I put the chosen one on and wear it around the store for at least 15-20 minutes while looking at other stuff before buying. When I bought a Shoei RF1000 some years ago I found one I thought fit but it pinched one ear a bit on top and so I asked for another same kind, size, and color from stock and it didn't pinch that ear. They are hand assembled and vary a bit from helmet to helmet. After wearing it around a bit I decided to remove the cheek pads and try it and it was actually too loose. A helmet twisted back and forth should move your scalp with it when new if it's tight enough. Got a size smaller and later put in new smaller check pads to get it all right, a new helmet purchase can be a task.
A couple years ago I replaced the ageing Shoei with a HJC IS-33, an open face with full built in shield and also built in flip up/down sunshield. The years over for high speed riding hundreds of miles to the mountains to play I felt it was enough helmet for an old man to putt around locally and be comfortable doing it. I only mention it because it was one that felt right to begin with but never loosened up and started giving me headaches. I did a little research and found a XL IS-33 used the same shell as my L size did so I ordered a new $25 XL headliner that converted it to a XL and all was good after that. Like I said, a new helmet purchase can be quite a task to get right.
Quote from: bombsquad83 on June 06, 2014, 07:59:40 AM
I have an HJC CL-16, and while I do hear plenty of noise, I have never had issues with ringing in my ears or any other ill effects even after riding 70 mph for an hour or so on my naked GS. You should definitely get the more snugly fitting helmet if you are between sizes. I have never had another helmet to compare wind noise, but I will say that I'm generally happy with mine. Especially the pinlock system. I never have fogging issues.
Do you use earplugs or is it just that quiet? I must mention that noise levels can well exceed 100 dB even in "quiet" helmets, so if you perceive it as loud I would be concerned. That is a great value for a helmet with DOT and Snell, with pinlock included to boot (well, the new CL-17 model doesn't include it but accepts it). I may just order one from RevZilla to see if it will be a better fit. I can also spend 30-40 minutes watching a show or something in it to see if it will be too tight or not, which can't be done in a store. I'll have to look into HJC again, because the old used HJC I have is larger yet quieter than the scorpion.
One other thing I just noticed after looking at some reviews of the CL-17 is that the wind noise reports vary wildly. Some say it's quieter than any helmet they've ever worn, while others say it's much louder. It almost certainly has to do with fitment unless their quality control is terrible (and it can't be for safety purposes).
I've also read it isn't uncommon for naked bikes to be quieter (than riding upright with a fairing/screen) because the fairing/screen causes extra buffeting of the helmet. If I tuck there is almost no noise at all, but I don't like how it makes me look or how it reduces both my personal visibility and my visibility to others.
I'm also wondering if maybe it's the helmet shape more than size that is the problem, because the recommendations do indicate to use a size up if you are in between sizes (MSF, Snell, etc.). It is in no way a "full" size too large on me, but it isn't quite small enough in some areas (it might be a bit long, but it is tight on the sides). The reports of the HJC are that it is more round or round oval, so maybe it will work...
Right helmet size is important to wind noise control but so is windshield, maybe more so. For years I used a large NC Plexi 2 shield on my Hondas and at first on my GS and it put the line of turbulence off the top of my shield over my head at higher speeds. When I tried a smaller Spitfire shield on my GS the noise and windblast on the high speed freeways was horrendous. The shield couldn't go higher so I tried it lower bringing the line of turbulence down from my face to neck level and all was OK and I've used the Spitfire size summers ever since. Windshield size and placement/adjustment can be as important as helmet in controlling wind noise. A FF helmet alone can be better than a shield/helmet at high speeds if the shield isn't right. By the way I've never used ear plugs and my hearing at 81 is still good after 400k+ miles of riding.
Quote from: DoktoroKiu on June 06, 2014, 09:39:47 AM
Quote from: bombsquad83 on June 06, 2014, 07:59:40 AM
I have an HJC CL-16, and while I do hear plenty of noise, I have never had issues with ringing in my ears or any other ill effects even after riding 70 mph for an hour or so on my naked GS. You should definitely get the more snugly fitting helmet if you are between sizes. I have never had another helmet to compare wind noise, but I will say that I'm generally happy with mine. Especially the pinlock system. I never have fogging issues.
Do you use earplugs or is it just that quiet?
I don't use earplugs.
Quote from: bombsquad83 on June 06, 2014, 11:08:15 AM
Quote from: DoktoroKiu on June 06, 2014, 09:39:47 AM
Quote from: bombsquad83 on June 06, 2014, 07:59:40 AM
I have an HJC CL-16, and while I do hear plenty of noise, I have never had issues with ringing in my ears or any other ill effects even after riding 70 mph for an hour or so on my naked GS. You should definitely get the more snugly fitting helmet if you are between sizes. I have never had another helmet to compare wind noise, but I will say that I'm generally happy with mine. Especially the pinlock system. I never have fogging issues.
Do you use earplugs or is it just that quiet?
I don't use earplugs.
Interesting...then I definitely have some investigating to do. It's probably a windshield + helmet fitment + helmet design issue. I guess that turbulent air just makes short work of the bottom of the helmet, though, because with shrugging I can even be buffeted and it's quiet. I'll just have to exercise my shoulders and/or tuck in the meantime.
Quote from: bombsquad83 on June 06, 2014, 07:59:40 AM
I have an HJC CL-16, and while I do hear plenty of noise, I have never had issues with ringing in my ears or any other ill effects even after riding 70 mph for an hour or so on my naked GS.
Same for me with an AFX FX-95.
I can buy that about a proper fitting helmet reducing wind noise, the less places wind can enter the less turbulence and wind noise will result.
To get my helmet on I have to pull it "open" with the straps and squeeze it onto my head taking care not to fold my ears over. It fits very comfortably once on, but it needs some convincing to get on/off.
It's a cheap helmet so I know an Arai or Shoei would definitely kick it's ass in the comfort and noise cancellation department, but it doesn't bother me at all.
Quote from: bombsquad83 on June 06, 2014, 11:08:15 AMI don't use earplugs.
With my CL-16 and V&H exhaust, earplugs were a must for any ride longer than 5 minutes. It was a good helmet for the price, but definitely not a quiet one. Lots of wind noise plus lots of engine noise made for some notable tinnitus after half an hour without earplugs.
I know my debaffled screamin eagles hurt after5 sans plugs lol
Quote from: RossLH on June 10, 2014, 07:23:05 PM
Quote from: bombsquad83 on June 06, 2014, 11:08:15 AMI don't use earplugs.
With my CL-16 and V&H exhaust, earplugs were a must for any ride longer than 5 minutes. It was a good helmet for the price, but definitely not a quiet one. Lots of wind noise plus lots of engine noise made for some notable tinnitus after half an hour without earplugs.
What helmets have you had that were quieter? Just curious for my own benefit in selection of my next helmet.
The only helmets I've ever owned were the CL-16 and my current LS2 FF-386. The LS2 is quieter by a little, but not by much. I tried a Schubert helmet (forgot which one) for a brief ride and it was ridiculously quiet.
Well, I had the dealer get medium pads for my helmet (medium and large share a shell) and, while it fits noticeably better, it still sounds like I'm putting my head into a jet engine when I get over 50. Even using the Windjammer it was loud, and on this helmet it didn't really cover up anything the pads don't already cover.
I don't know if it's just that it's not tight enough around my neck, or if my head is too short for the EXO 500. Most of the noise is due to turbulence at the bottom rear of the helmet, and goes away entirely when I shrug. I plan on going to a different dealer in town who stocks Arai, since they have helmets specifically designed with head shape in mind.
I'm seriously thinking about shelling out for a Schuberth Apparently the modular Schubert is quieter than their single piece; apparently they can get a tighter fit around the bottom of the helmet since you don't have to pass your head through it (<84 dB at 60mph). They may be more expensive, but at least they give a damn about making their helmets quiet (less loud).
It seems to me that the basic helmet is in need of drastic redesign, or at least the way they are sized and sold needs a major overhaul.
Is your bike naked or faired? A properly adjusted windscreen can help eliminate wind noise, but a poorly placed windscreen can make things worse. If you stand up on your pegs while riding does the noise go away at all? I have found that naked bikes are generally quieter because you are getting hit with smooth air. If you have a windscreen you want it to be sending the wind blast to your chest or lower, or above your helmet (think gold wing). The worst scenario is a screen that dumps turbulent air near the bottom of your helmet.
Quote from: Bluesmudge on June 23, 2014, 08:51:22 PM
Is your bike naked or faired? A properly adjusted windscreen can help eliminate wind noise, but a poorly placed windscreen can make things worse. If you stand up on your pegs while riding does the noise go away at all? I have found that naked bikes are generally quieter because you are getting hit with smooth air. If you have a windscreen you want it to be sending the wind blast to your chest or lower, or above your helmet (think gold wing). The worst scenario is a screen that dumps turbulent air near the bottom of your helmet.
My bike is faired, and the windscreen does dump turbulent air at my chest or neck depending on the speed. If I sit up very tall (arms almost locked out, so not good) I can get a large reduction in noise, and of course tucking in under the fairing reduces the noise significantly.
I have thought about getting more of a sport touring windscreen, but I still believe there is an issue with the helmet as long as I can reduce the noise by shrugging. Or do they make even lower windscreens than come stock on a 500F?
I am 6' tall and found the stock screen to be reasonably quiet, but in the winter time I didn't like all that cold air. I tried going taller. I got a Zero gravity touring screen. That moved the air blast to the bottom of my helmet and made things much louder and dumped all the cold air forcefully onto my neck, but it did take all the cold and pressure off my chest. I added a laminar lip to the top of the touring screen, which moved the air blast to about my helmet visor. Still not as quiet as stock, but very nice in the winter to stay warm.
As far as I know, nobody makes a shorter screen for the GS500F, but stock screens can be had on here or ebay for cheap. You could grab one and try cutting it.
If the Windjammer doesn't quiet things down significantly, I doubt spending $700+ on the C3 will do much for you. I think your problem is related to the bike. I have a windjammer for winter use and with a full face helmet things are very quiet but I find the lack of ventilation uncomfortable at even moderate temperatures. Also keep in mind that even with a good wind pattern and a quiet helmet, riding a motorcycle at highway speeds for long periods of time can damage your hearing -- so always wear earplugs if you are going on the freeway. If you are the weekend warrior type putting a couple thousand miles on your bike each year the hearing loss may never catch up with you, but if you are a long distance tourer or commuter it is good to take this stuff seriously.
Hmm, well I'm about 5'5", so maybe there's a chance the sport touring screen would put it high enough. I might look into that after I go see the Arai dealer to see if they might have a better internal shape for my head.
It's odd, my scorpion (Exo 500) is so big that the windjammer doesn't really cover up much exposed area except around the back of the helmet, and even then only a half inch or so. I can't fault the windjammer here, as the many pictures/videos I've seen showed a marked improvement in the seal on the helmets they used.
I think I just need to either go with a well-made modular or a smaller full face for a better fit around the neck. I think I have a bit of an egg-shaped head so my helmet fits my head but not my neck. I doubt I'll drop $700 on the Shuberth, but if you ask me after a 30 minute ride I might say otherwise. I have to use the maximum attenuation (~40dB) filters on my earplugs to avoid ringing (the mediums are good for in town but not enough for country/highway riding). I think it's because the low-frequency buffeting isn't really attenuated much (transferred by the helmet to your bones).
Yeah, on the helmet I used it on putting my head through the Windjammer was like being born all over again. Once on it almost touched all the way around my neck.
I was going to start a thread based on a helmet experience that I had. I normally ride with a 1/2 helmet on, but I borrowed my buddies helmet while his bike is in my garage waiting for the trans. to come back. I was surprised at how crazy quiet the helmet was and I really liked it. Then one day after not riding for the weekend it seemed like the bike got louder and it worried me a little bit. Then I realized that when I first put the helmet on I was wearing about a months worth of beard growth, and the helmet probably started getting louder when I had shaved over the weekend. So has anybody else noticed that a nice coat of fur on your face muffles the noise coming in through the bottom of the helmet?
I shave daily so can't help there sorry. In fact I follow razor fora and have several double edged safety razors, brushes, etc but that's another story.
Today I thought my bike was louder and noticed I'd left my earplugs in my pocket. With plugs plus helmet I barely hear the engine despite the Jardine exhaust. I definitely don't hear other people's engines. Even at motorway speeds it's almost all air noise.
My bike is faired, stock screen, and I usually wear an Arai helmet. I find it comparable to Schuberth full faces -- I don't wear modulars -- and it has a dropping chin spoiler that does cut noise but at the expense of air flow.
I've also found Nolan and AGV to be comfortable if just a touch louder.
I like the fit of Scorpion but have found them louder than my Arai or yesteryear's Schuberth.
Most air from the screen hits my sternum, no higher. I'm 1,85m tall and my head Φ is 61 cm so I wear an XL helmet if that helps compare. A full tuck won't reduce noise since it'll induce a whistle through the top vents on my helmet no matter which I chose.
I've found out that the jacket I'm wearing while riding and how it's buttoned up, has a important role on wind noise! Even in a faired GSXR!