I'm at a loss of what to do if i turn the bike on after it's warmed up it idles at 1.5k as soon as I drive down the street and put it in N or 1st gear it will either drop idle all the way and die or it will rev up to 3k. If it is idling at 3k I put it in first hold the front brake and slowly realeses the clutch a tad it will drop my idle to 1.5k and stay there until the next red light. What can be causing this?
I have checked for air leaks
Replaced my diagram on top of carbs
Cleaned the carbs 5x
Thottle cable is not sticking or stuck
Float height is level
I have 147.5 mains, 20, and 65... two washers and air screws are 2.5 right now
2007 gs500 delkevic slip on exhaust, and K&n pods
3k idle - Ok go to 3.5 turns on idle screws.
Cool.
Buddha.
Ok will check back tomorrow I have the pair system and I plugged the hose going to the bottom of the air filter with a rubber stopper but I just put a small filter on the hose and the engine sounds better? Idk if im crazy tho lol
I have a very similar problem. Bike is in the shop and they are chasing down a hang idle. I can also get it to rev normal by letting the clutch out a little or turning the bike on/off, but when I come to a stop it jumps back up to 3500 rpm.
Its been there for over a month now and the next step is to replace the entire carb setup but im hoping there is another solution.
Sitting here hoping you have found a solution :dunno_black:
Quote from: BigBabyMoses06 on June 18, 2014, 08:13:56 AM
I have a very similar problem. Bike is in the shop and they are chasing down a hang idle. I can also get it to rev normal by letting the clutch out a little or turning the bike on/off, but when I come to a stop it jumps back up to 3500 rpm.
Its been there for over a month now and the next step is to replace the entire carb setup but im hoping there is another solution.
Sitting here hoping you have found a solution :dunno_black:
Have you ruled out clutch adjustment, or cable issues with clutch, throttle, and choke? Also make sure to rule out choked engagement at the carbs, ensuring that the spring is connected correctly.
- Bboy
Also make sure not to set your idle speed screw too high. The best way to do it is to get the bike completely warm. Not just 2 minutes of idling a few revs in neutral, I'm talking about like 15 minutes of really riding it.
Quote from: BockinBboy on June 18, 2014, 08:34:43 AM
Quote from: BigBabyMoses06 on June 18, 2014, 08:13:56 AM
I have a very similar problem. Bike is in the shop and they are chasing down a hang idle. I can also get it to rev normal by letting the clutch out a little or turning the bike on/off, but when I come to a stop it jumps back up to 3500 rpm.
Its been there for over a month now and the next step is to replace the entire carb setup but im hoping there is another solution.
Sitting here hoping you have found a solution :dunno_black:
Have you ruled out clutch adjustment, or cable issues with clutch, throttle, and choke? Also make sure to rule out choked engagement at the carbs, ensuring that the spring is connected correctly.
- Bboy
I understand a bad throttle or chocke lever but curious how a bad clutch line would effect idle? If we are engaging it by slowly releasing the clutch and idle drops and pull clutch all the way back in wouldn't that mean our clutches are working fine?
Ok 3.5 air turns doesn't seem to change anything. Any other ideas?
QuoteI understand a bad throttle or chocke lever but curious how a bad clutch line would effect idle? If we are engaging it by slowly releasing the clutch and idle drops and pull clutch all the way back in wouldn't that mean our clutches are working fine?
I think the though is your bike is idling at 3k or so, and a faulty clutch is causing it to drag down to 1.5K some of the time......IDK it really does not make any sense to me :dunno_black:
Have you checked your timing ? With a light?
Also it might be a good ideas to clean the carbs and test my plugging the air filter hole. This should make the bike shut off if it does not you got a leak.
Quote from: robfriedenberger on June 18, 2014, 11:55:16 PM
QuoteI understand a bad throttle or chocke lever but curious how a bad clutch line would effect idle? If we are engaging it by slowly releasing the clutch and idle drops and pull clutch all the way back in wouldn't that mean our clutches are working fine?
I think the though is your bike is idling at 3k or so, and a faulty clutch is causing it to drag down to 1.5K some of the time......IDK it really does not make any sense to me :dunno_black:
Have you checked your timing ? With a light?
Also it might be a good ideas to clean the carbs and test my plugging the air filter hole. This should make the bike shut off if it does not you got a leak.
I see maybe I'm bad at explaining I have seen a few threads of people explaining what we mean lol basically if you pull up to a red light your In 1st gear and your at a stop, clutch in and your idle is at 3.5k you squeeze the front brake hard and slowly realeses the clutch not all the way just to the friction zone the bike will attempt to move but the brake is applied so it starts to stall.. The rpms will drop when they hit 2k and under squeeze the clutch back in and the rpms will stay at 1.5k then it's fine. Until the next red light.
As for plugging the air filer holes I did that and it died within a few seconds I tested every where for leaks there is none
^Exactly. Same deal.
I just got a call back from the shop, and they have tried everything, other than replacing the carbs which is the next step. They have done jetting, balancing, looked at every little piece in side, checked all the linkages and cables, and then some mumbojumbo that my mechanically UN-inclined brain didn't understand lol. And all that, 5 times over.
Since the carbs are back on it, I am going to ride it for the rest of the season and either sell the bike at the end or work on it over the winter, but if a good reputable shop cant fix it, I have doubts that I can too.
Bumped to 4 turns riding a little better, I think 4.25 or 4.5 turns might fix the issue maybe is that ok to do?
4 turns dose not sound right.......I think some thing is off with your carbs.....Depending on how much city riding your doing you might be taking a chance of over heating the motor or wearing out the clutch.
I'm thinking air leak somewhere.
Agreed 4 turns was better but not worth it, it actually had to much air and amount of choke would kill the bike I'm going to pull the carbs again this weekend for the 100th time :2guns: i have seen a thread on a differnt forum of someone boiling there carbs in water and pine sol is this something I should try?
Before you tear everything down again, check again for air leaks. Do you have any vacuum tubes that are not attached as they should be? Also check your boots between the carbs and the engine thoroughly for cracks. Make sure you have the carbs fully into the grove in the boots. Also make sure your air filters are properly clamped.
I will check again last time I checked no cracks and air filter tighten all the way sprayed carb cleaner and wd40 everywhere and never got a jump in idle
When I pull the pilot jet will the pilot jet holder come out? If so how because I know there is an oring under that.
Also if my float gasket look bad but don't cause any leaks will this caz my idle to jump up? I sprayed cleaner on the outside and it never jumped in idle so I figured they were ok until they got here (they are already order and being shipped)
Also before you dismantle your carbs, you might as well check your float height with the clear U shape tube from the drain method. The gas level should be even with the float bowl gaskets (petcock on prime). Turn the petcock off prime when you are done.
Easy way to check for AIR leaks....Atleast major ones....Put your hand over the air filter...This should kill the bike if there is not any Air leaks. if there is than it should continue to run with no to little drop in RPM
Okay I'm working on the bike the first thing I did was have bike warmed up and I pulled my left coil bike died instantly plugged it back in and turned bike back on pulled right coil and bike idle the same and nothing changed. What does this mean?
Pulled the spark plug and grounded out of the motor to test for spark and nothing
Right side has very week spark yellow color
Try swapping the spark plugs and see if the problem follows them. Then try swapping the coils.
Well I didn't get that far I figured I would try a compression test since spark plugs were off I got 120psi on my left cylinder and 30psi out of my right cylinder I guess I have been riding my bike on one Cylinder all along
30?! Wow. I'm hoping you forgot to have the throttle wide open before testing that......
Check your valve clearances - them being out of spec can give a low #. Good luck man!
Big rich is Right, also it wouldn't be a bad idea to borrow a bore camera, or buy one and inspect the cylinder walls
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Left the throttle all the way open but didn't screw the gauge all the way in re did the test and the number is 65 still not good but better... Poured some oil down there and re did the test and got 75 psi
I have the bike takin apart it's still hot so I took apart the carbs I pulled my air mixture screw out all the way and all I have is the screw and a spring isn't there suppose to be an oring somewhere?
There is. Find a parts diagram for the carbs - I think there's a tiny washer in there too. When I rebuilt mine the oring was so old it was stuck to the carb body - maybe yours is too?
Before you get into the engine, please check your valve clearances. That oil in the cylinder test points towards a problem with the valves....
Yes oring was stuck but there was no washer so ill order that and I noticed my carburator piston the plastic piece the diagram goes in is crack :2guns: any one know of a cheep place for them?
I'm going to take a look at the pistons for sure just need to pick up a small allen as all mine are to big to fit in the front :mad:
Today is not my day
Quote from: Nocluejoe on June 20, 2014, 07:11:23 PM
Yes oring was stuck but there was no washer so ill order that and I noticed my carburator piston the plastic piece the diagram goes in is crack :2guns: any one know of a cheep place for them?
I'm going to take a look at the pistons for sure just need to pick up a small allen as all mine are to big to fit in the front :mad:
Today is not my day
Your white slide guide is cracked ... WTF, that was definitely thanks to some clutz mechanic.
Yea you gonna need to get a good one, or you could remove it and clean it like a maniac and jb weld it and hope it holds together.
Buy a 04+ carb rack, I sure as hell done have them parts lying round. 89-00 I got some ... no guides tho.
Your lack of spark is a separate issue.
Your crank trigger or auxillary ground may be @ issue.
65 psi - you sure they checked the valves ... Sounds like its not sealing.
Cool.
Buddha.
Lack of spark was due to spark plug replaced it and its firing again for now about to get in the valves
Okay measured the valves here are my measurements
Right intake= .076mm
Right exhaust= would not fit .038mm This was the only valve I couldn't not spin the shim or whatever it is that can spin like the others
Left intake= .051mm
Left exhaust= would not fit .038mm
Now I need to find the right shims
Was your 120 psi left and 65-75 psi right compression test done with a cold engine? With a tight #2 exhaust valve bucket I'd do a hot compression test right now to confirm the tight valve is the cause of your compression results and it's not a bent or burnt valve.
I had a very tight exhaust bucket that eventually caused a broken exhaust valve when it stuck open and clashed one very cold morning. But that tight bucket I originally left go for another 10k miles would free up and engine idle would smooth out within a minute after startup and bike would be OK for the day.
A bad plug is possible but rare and I still suspect the cause of your come and go idle problem might be electrical with a loose plug wire in the coil or something like that. Two problems at one time can be very hard to diagnose and carb problems are the last thing I suspect. I've done my 180k GS miles with untouched carbs.
I did it hot and cold when I got 30 psi it was a cold engine I have the whole bike takin apart so I can't run the bike right now how do I know if the valve is stuck open? What do I do if it is when I rotate the engine I see the valve get pushed down
If your basic engine is still all together with cams properly timed you can turn it over slowly clockwise with a 19mm wrench on the hex under the little round 3 bolt cover on the right end of the crank where the ignition pickup is and observe the valve action. Most likely it will appear OK even with your tight bucket. The valve springs have a spring rate as all springs do and their force is proportional to the amount they are compressed. With a tight bucket the force will be reduced as the valve closes and spring lengthens and can become not enough to close the valve completely when cold. When the engine warms after startup the aluminum head expands faster than the steel bucket and the bucket is freed to perform normally. It would be a good idea to check the valve timing and cam chain tension at this time to verify they are OK:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/gs500signalgenerators_zps2134172a.jpg
Seems your compression on the #2 cyl increased as the engine warmed but may not have been warm enough to allow the valve to close completely? Now that you have confirmed a tight bucket it would be good to get both a cold and a hot compression check before changing shims on that valve. Even with my very tight bucket that held the valve open when cold I confirmed low or no compression when cold and good compression when hot before I let it go for a while when it would have been better to deal with the tight bucket when first discovered.
We still won't know if your low compression on #2 is due to the tight bucket, a too large shim, or if it is a bent/burnt valve causing the problem requiring pulling the head and repairing. Good compression when normal operating temperature is reached would be good news right now.
Other opinions would be welcome. :icon_lol:
Joe, what size are your current exhaust shims? I might have a couple shims that would be the next size up I could sell you (if it's quicker than your local dealer).
IMO, I wouldn't look too far into other possibilities of low compression until you get your valve clearances correct. It would be a shame to pull the top end unnecessarily....
I agree with Rich. Take that tight shim out and see if you can spin the bucket. If the bucket doesn't budge, then you might have to pull the head and check the valve and get that bucket taken care of.
Okay I got the right intake shim out it is 265 I managed to wedge the screw driver under neath the valve and pulled them shim out with another.
My question is can I realease the screw driver with out a shim in the hole? I know I cant rotate the engine with no shim but will it be bad if I just realease the screw driver with no shim to remove the other 2 shims?
I didnt read the thread before I pulled the shim so im just going to get them to the correct sizes and then worry about compression after
No, you want a shim under there.
Speaking of which, a screwdriver isn't recommended either.
I wouldn't think it would be a problem to let the bucket up without the shim, but I might be wrong. I know you definitely would not want to turn the engine over either by hand or ortherwise without a shim.
Well I've been using a screwdriver and an old Honda wedge tool for at least 20 shim changed for 15 GS500 years without a problem, works for me. Two screwdrivers would also do the job.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/ValveShimTools.jpg
Rich, he'll need smaller rather than larger shims since his exhaust clearances are too tight.
Joe, if you have that bucket depressed with a screwdriver and the shim out I don't see why you couldn't remove the screwdriver to release the bucket so you can maybe see if the bucket will turn, we don't know yet if it's a tight bucket or a too tight shim in there although I suspect its a tight bucket. Don't turn the camshaft with the shim out, put a shim in before turning it.
Quote from: gsJack on June 21, 2014, 09:18:29 AM..........................We still won't know if your low compression on #2 is due to the tight bucket, a too large shim, or if it is a bent/burnt valve causing the problem requiring pulling the head and repairing........................
I see bombsquad83 has just posted the same thing as I am saying. Perhaps putting a 2 size smaller shim in both exhaust valves and then checking clearances would be a good start. If adequate clearance is obtained on both then recheck compression. Compression on #2 close to what you got on #1 would then indicate the problem was solved. I was not suggesting you consider pulling the head at this time unless you find you have a bent/burnt valve.
Okay currently at work till late tonight but when I get home I will pull all the other 2 valves a local mechanic has the shims on hand so he said to come in and grab some and there 5-7 dollars a piece.
What is the required clearance for the valves? Exhast valves should be .10 correct? I remeber people run them bigger than normal and what is it for intake?
Thanks everyone so far for all the help I couldnt do all this with out everyone
.03 to .08 is the standard clearance. That .10mm is what GSJack recommends and what I use for the exhaust.
And sorry for that "step up" phrase earlier. It's what we use at the machine shop I work at when shimming carbide inserts.
Edited: too many zeros!
Suzuki spec is .03-.08 mm (.001-.003") and I leave my intakes at that setting, no need to change them. I set exhausts at .08-.13 mm (.003-.005") now and they hold well at that setting.
Your intakes look good without change and your exhausts probably need 2 shim sizes smaller, can't tell for sure until you get some clearance you can measure.
Really I should leave the exhaust shims the way they are? Wouldnt I run into issues again shorty down the road?
When I get home I will put the shim back in and work on the exhaust valves
No, leave intakes as they are not exhausts. I never changed an intake shim in my 97 GS for 80k miles and the intakes in my current 02 have the same shims in them that came from the factory at 100k miles now. Intake valves run much cooler than exhaust valves and require little if any attention, at least that's been my experience.
Exhaust valves set at the minimum Suzuki .03 mm spec run too hot and begin receding into the seats over time and miles. They need more cooling seat time provided by the larger gaps we're using. Your exhausts are too tight and need shims 2 sizes smaller at least to give new clearance specs, maybe more after you get enough clearance to measure.
Okay got the right exhast shim out its 275 so you think I should go down to 265? Or lower
Also with the shim out on #2 its spinning freely so hopefully that means I dont have a burnt valve?
I don't think it gaurentees that the valve isn't damaged, but it's a good sign and it means your bucket isn't stuck. Size 265 would be a good start. It might not be sufficient. You will just have to measure once you get the new shim in. Once you have the shims set properly, then it will be time to recheck compression.
Okay im probably going to get a 265 and a 260 just imcase can always save it for later.
Im having trouble finding that washer that goes inside the mixture screw in the carburetor it seems to be a 2mm however the the hole is much larger than a regular washer
So I found a chart and since I didn't have any clearance with my old shims of 275 I'm think 260 might be to big still according to this chart to get desired .10 even tho I will be a little less than .10 I would need a shim of 2.45 am I correct in thinking this way?
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I just woke up and am still seeing fuzzy.....but that doesn't make any sense to me.
Joe, if your valve clearance was really tight with a 275 shim (which is actually 2.75mm thick), then lets just guess that you valve clearance was at .02mm. Minimum clearance is .03mm, so a 2.65 shim would result in .12mm clearance.
Try checking it again after getting a 265 shim in there. It might be good, or you may need a 260 shim. But a 245? I couldn't imagine needing that already.
Quote from: Big Rich on June 22, 2014, 04:44:45 PM
I just woke up and am still seeing fuzzy.....but that doesn't make any sense to me.
Joe, if your valve clearance was really tight with a 275 shim (which is actually 2.75mm thick), then lets just guess that you valve clearance was at .02mm. Minimum clearance is .03mm, so a 2.65 shim would result in .12mm clearance.
Try checking it again after getting a 265 shim in there. It might be good, or you may need a 260 shim. But a 245? I couldn't imagine needing that already.
Yes a 260 will result in the minumum or just above it but everything I see says run exhast at .10?
How do you figure a 260 will put you at the minimum?
For some odd reason, that chart is mixing mm and inches. The numbers across the top are in inches it seems. Just try the 265 and see where it puts the clearance. If it's less than .10 mm clearance, then step it down one more to the 260.
I got a nice ride in today instead of worrying about your shims. :icon_lol: So if my memory is correct you have 275 shims in both exhausts?
In checking your valves you couldn't get a .038mm feeler in #1E but the bucket turned so you had some minimum clearance less than the feeler. A 265 should give you .10mm additional clearance putting it nicely into the .08-.13mm desired range.
Also a .038mm feeler wouldn't fit in #2E and the bucket wouldn't turn with shim in but did turn after shim was removed. Good news, the bucket is OK and wouldn't turn because of the shim was too big causing valve to be open when cold. In effect a negative clearance so 2 shims smaller will not give .10mm clearance and it probably will need a 260 shim, 3 sizes smaller.
I got in the habit of picking up a couple more to make sure. In this case I would get the 265 and 260 shims plus a 255 and 250 in case needed, if not needed this time they will probably be used next time you check valves.
Quote from: gsJack on June 22, 2014, 07:35:42 PM
I got a nice ride in today instead of worrying about your shims. :icon_lol: So if my memory is correct you have 275 shims in both exhausts?
In checking your valves you couldn't get a .038mm feeler in #1E but the bucket turned so you had some minimum clearance less than the feeler. A 265 should give you .10mm additional clearance putting it nicely into the .08-.13mm desired range.
Also a .038mm feeler wouldn't fit in #2E and the bucket wouldn't turn with shim in but did turn after shim was removed. Good news, the bucket is OK and wouldn't turn because of the shim was too big causing valve to be open when cold. In effect a negative clearance so 2 shims smaller will not give .10mm clearance and it probably will need a 260 shim, 3 sizes smaller.
I got in the habit of picking up a couple more to make sure. In this case I would get the 265 and 260 shims plus a 255 and 250 in case needed, if not needed this time they will probably be used next time you check valves.
I'll be out there again soon enough :thumb:
Okay I will check with the shop and see what they have hopefully they have them
okay left side has a 2.60 shim and has a clearance of 1.2 is that okay or should I put a 2.65 in there?
Right side has a 2.55 and the clearanve is .8 with a little extra put wont fit a 1.10 I assume this shim is fine?
I couldnt order a 2.50 they were out and needed to order it and would take a few days
Do you mean the left side is at ".12mm" and the right side is at ".08mm"? If so, I'd run them like that.
Yes I do okay I will run it like that thanks you
120-130 compression on both sides cold haven't done hot
Spark plugs are working like a charm again
More "power" I don't feel like my bike is going to stall
But the biggest plus to this.... No more hanging idle seriously this made the bike run solo much better and I'm glad thanks again to everybody that helped!
:thumb: Glad to help! Good job wrenching.
The new shim will float on oil after you put it in. You will likely get too tight readings till you squeeze that oil out. I used to only go 1 size thinner before riding and checking if in doubt.
Cool.
Buddha.
A couple turns of the crank with a wrench after a shim change will squeeze out the oil under the shim. I made many 2 shim size changes without a problem.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/GSvalvelogs_zps9ef7236a.jpg