While changing my stator, I decided to go ahead and do an oil change and try the 15w40 I'd seen mentioned in the wiki. I had been using Rotella T6 5W-40. I've also recently switched to Iridium plugs.
Now the bike seems to have more tendency to stall pulling away from a stop, yet it also seems a bit less clackety once it is warmed up well.
So, for those who have used or do use 15w, what have been your observations in use? I've read elsewhere that people feel like it gives smoother shifting, fewer false neutrals. I would agree until last night when I had a mess of them, though I don't discount my periodic shitey shifting.
I need to take a look at the plugs, too...will likely switch the plain NGK back in for spell to see how it feels. I may even drain a bit out and add some T6 back in for giggles.
And, as Rhett Butler as my witness, I will manage to successfully replace that blasted filter gasket.
First off I wouldn't put a 5W-anything dino or full syn in an air cooled bike engine. I ran 15W-50 Mobil 1 full syn in my 97 GS for 50k miles and switched to less expensive 15W-40 Rotella dino when oil consumtion increased. Got same oil mileage with the 15W-40 for less cost. Proved to my satisfaction that an anything-40 runs cooler in an air cooled bike than an anything- 50 does.
Have gone with the 15W-40 Rotella dino in my 02 for all it's 100k miles and have no complaints with it. I put in one change of 20W-50 dino in it late last year and it quieted the 100k mile engine noticeably. Went back to the 15W-40 again making 3 oil changes while trouble shooting it for a knock this spring and it's getting noisy as it gets hotter this summer and will probably go back to the 20W-50 again, I don't ride as far or as often or on 90F days like I used to.
Rotella T3 :thumb:
Quote from: gsJack on July 02, 2014, 08:24:25 AM
First off I wouldn't put a 5W-anything dino or full syn in an air cooled bike engine. I ran 15W-50 Mobil 1 full syn in my 97 GS for 50k miles and switched to less expensive 15W-40 Rotella dino when oil consumption increased.
Hm. Never saw any consumption or leaks in 2K miles of 5W T6 full synth from Oct-May in NY weather.
Quote from: cWj on July 02, 2014, 07:16:11 AM
While changing my stator, I decided to go ahead and do an oil change and try the 15w40 I'd seen mentioned in the wiki. I had been using Rotella T6 5W-40.......................... it also seems a bit less clackety once it is warmed up well.........................
I think your answer is right there. The viscosity breakdown that takes place as the miles add up tends to reduce the viscosity when hot down closer to the min rating so the 5-40 becomes thinner than the 15-40 did when hot.
There are some long stringy molecules of something in multi viscosity oils that are chopped up by the gears in the bike tranny causing viscosity breakdown to be more rapid than in applications that don't use the same oil for both engine and tranny.
Quote from: gsJack on July 02, 2014, 09:41:13 AM
I think your answer is right there.
I don't see how the noise could be from breakdown given I'd heard it since I got the bike last October. I changed the oil (no idea what was in it before) to the T6 5W soon thereafter. From that point I've ridden two thousand miles.
But my question is about other people's observations using the different grades, not about what is causing the sound, though I realize that might have been unclear since I incorrectly typed the post title as "!5w-40"...
Quote from: cWj on July 02, 2014, 09:19:01 AM
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on July 02, 2014, 08:36:45 AM
Rotella T3 :thumb:
care to elaborate?
Rotella T3 15w-40 $12.97 a Gallon at Wallmart, better shifting and less clatter than Rotella T6 5w-40 when hot, I'm with Jack, 5w would be a good choice for riding an air cooled bike in Alaska...in winter
EDIT: So far the only test bike that has had both T6 and T3 in it is my WR250R, most noteable, the shifting seemed more
notchy with the T6 5w-40
I've switched from Suzuki 10W-40 to Rotella T5 16W-40 just now. First impressions are the motor is quieter, and the shifts more positive -- though I found it harder to downshift into 1st.
I ride on local freeways. Ambient temps routinely exceed 30C, and speeds are from stop-and-go to 120 kph for 65 km distances twice daily. The 15W-40 seemed an interesting idea.
and none of you folks experienced the need to feather more carefully from stopped after the switch to 15w?
Quote from: Rallyfan on July 02, 2014, 08:04:17 PM
I've switched from Suzuki 10W-40 to Rotella T5 16W-40 just now. First impressions are the motor is quieter, and the shifts more positive -- though I found it harder to downshift into 1st.
I ride on local freeways. Ambient temps routinely exceed 30C, and speeds are from stop-and-go to 120 kph for 65 km distances twice daily. The 15W-40 seemed an interesting idea.
It is one of the options! :thumb:
(http://home.comcast.net/~stykers/oilvis.jpg)
Quote from: cWj on July 02, 2014, 08:45:59 PM
and none of you folks experienced the need to feather more carefully from stopped after the switch to 15w?
Do you actually notice that you need to do that with the 15W ?
Does anyone run 20-50 and feel that they have to feather from a stop (sorry, Don't mean to hijack the thread). I don't ride in the Winter (Certainly not below the 40 degree mark), and I've considered 20-50 as well.
I'm curious if others notice the same thing. I've been contemplating switching to the Rotella 15W 40 but I haven't as of yet. I'm getting close to oil change time.
Following this tread closely... Great topic
The oil nerds at BITOG found that Rotella T5 actually retains its additive package a lot longer than Rotella T6. I think it works great, but has a very distinctive smell.
Quote from: dinkydonuts on July 02, 2014, 10:22:31 PM
The oil nerds at BITOG found that Rotella T5 actually retains its additive package a lot longer than Rotella T6. I think it works great, but has a very distinctive smell.
The farther the 2 weights are apart the more polymer's are used, polymers are coiled when cold, and unwind as the oil heats up. The uncoiled polymer chains regulate the viscosity of the heated oil. 5w-40 has more polymer's in it than 15w-40, and supposedly polymer's are beat to crap by motorcycle transmissions? This could be part of? And please note I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :cheers:
I have been using 20w50 off and on for most of the bike's life and find that it definitely shifts better, especially in hot weather (40C+ here). I always allow 3 or 4 minutes warmup while I put on the helmet and gloves to ensure there is plenty of oil flowing before I move off. I also change the oil every 2000km! Oil is cheap, metal is NOT. :thumb:
I use accel 10-40 in all bikes. Walmart issue, SF rated.
Except when the bloody thing isn't available like a couple years ago. Then its Delo 15-40 or Rotella 15-40, both of which I have parts of atleast 3 gallon jugs.
Yes GS likes 10-40, but as you get higher oil consumption, the thicker oil works better. I do think the 50 runs hotter, but that also cos likely the 50 doesn't boil off at as low a temp, and besides if you use oil, you likely are losing it at the cyl wall, and temperature is your friend cos things seal up better at the cylinder if it was hotter. I suspect its not that big a factor one way or another tho.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: GS4me on July 02, 2014, 09:00:40 PM
Quote from: cWj on July 02, 2014, 08:45:59 PM
and none of you folks experienced the need to feather more carefully from stopped after the switch to 15w?
Do you actually notice that you need to do that with the 15W ?
Well, I noticed something. That's why I brought it up. I have the impression that it stalls easier. It could just be my evolving shift habits - maybe I'm just more relaxed about the possibility of a stall and apply throttle later, but I have definitely noticed the lumpy spots below 3K rpm more with the heavier oil. I've only calculated MPG once since the change, so not really enough data there to infer anything.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=67546.msg813384#msg813384
Quote from: cWj on July 03, 2014, 08:03:38 AMWell, I noticed something. That's why I brought it up. I have the impression that it stalls easier. It could just be my evolving shift habits - maybe I'm just more relaxed about the possibility of a stall and apply throttle later, but I have definitely noticed the lumpy spots below 3K rpm more with the heavier oil. I've only calculated MPG once since the change, so not really enough data there to infer anything.
Take your bike out for about an hour ride and get the oil good and hot, as soon as you get home take all the slack out of the clutch cable then tie the clutch lever back to the grip and leave it overnight, take two drinks and get back with me in the morning about your stalling problem :cheers:
EDIT: Above helps minimize the clunck when dropping in to 1st from "N" more than anything
Agreed, Stevo. Oil viscosity cannot have any effect on stalling or otherwise. I always hook my clutch lever back when I am parking the bike overnight to prevent clutch "stick" in the morning. That solved my 1st gear clunk a long time ago. During the day it is not necessary. I have a half-done cable tie (zip tie) that fits nicely around the heated grips controller when riding and slips over the left grip/clutch lever for longer term parking.
Macka
Quote from: prmas on July 03, 2014, 10:36:30 PM
Agreed, Stevo. Oil viscosity cannot have any effect on stalling or otherwise. I always hook my clutch lever back when I am parking the bike overnight to prevent clutch "stick" in the morning. That solved my 1st gear clunk a long time ago. During the day it is not necessary. I have a half-done cable tie (zip tie) that fits nicely around the heated grips controller when riding and slips over the left grip/clutch lever for longer term parking.
Macka
I tie the lever back a few times a year, and
every time I have a fresh oil change, I have done this since I was a kid racing motocross. My V-Strom drops into 1st from "N" without making a sound, the tie back process works...better with some bikes.
My friends call it the "Stevo Ny-Ty Trick" :whisper:
Does hooking the lever back to keep the clutch disengaged overnight affect the cable or the springs? Also how long can this be done -- say I park for a week, can the lever stay hooked with no ill effects?
Quote from: Rallyfan on July 11, 2014, 10:15:49 PM
Does hooking the lever back to keep the clutch disengaged overnight affect the cable or the springs? Also how long can this be done -- say I park for a week, can the lever stay hooked with no ill effects?
I have been tying back clutch levers since the '70's on all kinds of bikes, and I have never seen any ill effects from doing it. As far as the time, I have left levers tied back all winter until spring.
I have been tying my clutch lever back during parking for nearly 4 years with no ill effects. No cable stretch or any other nasty symptoms. Sometimes the bike is parked for 6-8 weeks with the lever tied down and there are no problems. I guess that over many years that it might cause the clutch springs to sag a little but remember that even when the lever is free that the springs are under compression force anyway. If they were not you would have no drive.
I usually use 20w50 oil too.
Macka
I'll give the tied clutch a try thanks!
I also Rotella T3 15w-40 because it's a popular choice not only among GS owners. So far it doesn't give me headache.
I was always taught to park the bike in first gear with the clutch out, just like a manual car, because that serves as the parking brake of sorts.
Be cautious about where your bike is and how level the ground is before you decide to tie that clutch in.
Quote from: Watcher on July 19, 2014, 09:35:32 AM
I was always taught to park the bike in first gear with the clutch out, just like a manual car, because that serves as the parking brake of sorts.
Be cautious about where your bike is and how level the ground is before you decide to tie that clutch in.
I think as long as everybody is smarter than the bike they ride, everything will be fine :thumb:
Yes Watcher, when I am out riding I always park in 1st gear with the clutch out. When it is parked overnight on the level concrete garage floor, under it's doona, it is on the centre stand with the lever hooked back. It has now been sitting like that for about 5 weeks and I know that I will have no trouble selecting 1st gear on my next start-up, perhaps tomorrow if the rain stays away.
Macka
It's been a long while since my GS has been in neutral outside of the garage. When I make stops for coffee or ice cream I kill it with the kickstand deployment and am ready to pull out again in !st gear. Never had a problem going from neutral to first in the garage regardless of temperature riding year around here in NE OH, no need to bother tying anything. :dunno_black:
Quote from: gsJack on July 20, 2014, 05:32:18 AMNever had a problem going from neutral to first in the garage regardless of temperature riding year around here in NE OH, no need to bother tying anything. :dunno_black:
It will always go into gear, tying back the lever just minimizes the "clunk" when you do it.
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on July 11, 2014, 11:11:37 PM
I have been tying back clutch levers since the '70's on all kinds of bikes, and I have never seen any ill effects from doing it. As far as the time, I have left levers tied back all winter until spring.
Great tip. I'm gonna do this to my bikes.
Only issue I possibly see is my other bikes have hyd clutch actuation. Keeping pressure on them for extended periods, an issue ? ? ? ? ?
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on July 20, 2014, 08:08:12 AM
Quote from: gsJack on July 20, 2014, 05:32:18 AMNever had a problem going from neutral to first in the garage regardless of temperature riding year around here in NE OH, no need to bother tying anything. :dunno_black:
It will always go into gear, tying back the lever just minimizes the "clunk" when you do it.
After 100k miles of clunking into gear in the morning I think my bike would be disappointed if I mended my ways now. :icon_lol:
Quote from: ace50 on July 20, 2014, 08:10:48 AMGreat tip. I'm gonna do this to my bikes.
Only issue I possibly see is my other bikes have hyd clutch actuation. Keeping pressure on them for extended periods, an issue ? ? ? ? ?
I do it every time I have fresh oil in the engine, take your bike out and and get the oil good and hot, and then take the free play out of the cable at the lever before you tie it back.
My GSX650F has a hydraulic clutch and I'm kinda chickenchit about tying it back for long periods, I do tie it's lever back, but only for an hour or so after an oil change. I also release it a few times during that hour, my GSX is my first bike with a hydro clutch. It may not be an issue tying it back overnight, I am just leary to try it :dunno_black:
I would be less comfortable doing it with a hydraulic system, especially as it gets older. With the lever out there is just natural expansion of the rubber holding the seal onto the cylinder bore. With the lever held in for long periods in an old system, there is a possibility that the rubber, under pressure and expanded for a long time, could stick to the cylinder bore and when released it could tear off the tiny sealing edge of the rubber, resulting in internal or external leaks.
If it was done from new, and the fluid was kept clean there should not be a problem.
I was surprised to see the use of diesel motor oil on bike on here but anyways I was under the impression that motorcycle oil was different and car oils would cause damage to things like Wet clutch? Not the case from what I have read here???? have I been steered wrong just so i spend way to much on Motul ...???
I found this article by Mike Guillory a retired oil company chemist on a VFR forum about 15 years ago before I started using the diesel oils and have used them on GS500s for about 130k miles since. See Addendum at bottom of article.
http://www.vfrworld.com/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm
Rotella T carries the JASO MA rating for usage on motorcycles with wet clutches.
Today was over 40C in my area and I commuted 150 km round trip at speeds up to 110 kph. Rotella 15W-40. Shifts felt great and in fact now, contrary to my initial impression, 1st is easier to find.
thanks for posting that link great info about motor oil
Quote from: gsJack on July 24, 2014, 05:23:08 AM
I found this article by Mike Guillory a retired oil company chemist on a VFR forum about 15 years ago before I started using the diesel oils and have used them on GS500s for about 130k miles since. See Addendum at bottom of article.
http://www.vfrworld.com/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm
Rotella T carries the JASO MA rating for usage on motorcycles with wet clutches.
Not that I would recommend doing what I did but.....I used "Energy Conserving" or Automotive type oils for years in all my dirt bikes both 2 and 4 strokes and never had an issue with any type of clutch slippage, bikes where...'67 Honda CT90, '73 Honda XR75, '75 Honda CB400F, '76 Yamaha MX125C, '76 Maico 450, '77 Yamaha YZ80D, '77 Yamaha YZ250D, '77 Yamaha DT250D, '78 Yamaha YZ80E, '79 Honda XR185, '80 Honda XR80, '81 Honda XR200R, '81 Honda XR100 :dunno_black:
Knowing what I know now...it's easy enough to use something like Rotella T3 15w-40 that has the correct JASO MA rating :thumb: