Greetings,
Went for an enjoyable ride on Saturday. Unfortunately, it ended with a crash. I was traveling about 25 mph when I grabbed too much front brake during a panic stop. I consider myself really lucky. I wasn't injured beyond a few bruised ribs, thanks to full gear. In fact, the gear didn't incur much damage either. The bike was also lucky. The damage was contained to a dent in the headlight bezel, scrapes on the windscreen and left front signal indicator and slight bends to the left side of the handlebars and the foot peg. I learned two very important lessons: Leave more room between me and the vehicle ahead of me and practice panic stops so I apply increasing pressure to the front brake rather than a sudden death grip. I welcome all words of advice.
First of all, glad you are OK!! :thumb:
I do not have any advice really but I totally agree with ya about putting LOTS and LOTS and then even MORE room between you and the vehicle in front of you. I constantly think to myself, "Idk if this person may be texting, drunk driving, eating, arguing with their passenger (if there is one), fiddling with a GPS or the radio or otherwise distracted so I want to be far away from them if they need to stop and are not paying full attention to the road."
Get back on an ride some in an area with little traffic.....build the old confidence back up.
Glad the injuries/damage was only minor.
Alan, I rode home. Not lacking confidence, just kinda pissed at myself for the lapse in judgment. But I appreciate the words of encouragement.
In reality, it's not lapse in judgment, it's a design flaw. Older bikes with drum brakes don't do that 2 finger brake sensitivity lockup thing . You had to grab a hand full to lock the wheel. Thus providing many increments of brake application, not just on or off. The on or off set up doesn't work in panic stop situations, because you instinctively grab all the brake you can. You could say that the drum brakes had built in ABS.
Well, glad you're safe. With the winter months we should all be more attentive on local ice spots on the road. I never ride in Blizzard cold, or sub 32F, and as proof of that, I live in FL, where the weather doesn't go below 45F O0
With both cars and bikes, I've trained myself to veer to the side of the vehicle in front of me during a panic stop. Over the years, it's helped me avoid a few accidents, at least. On the bike, I aim for a center lane. In the car, I aim for the shoulder. With a motorcycle, even if you lock up and go into a slide, if you've pointed yourself in between two lanes beforehand, there's a chance you'll be alright (conditions permitting). I've avoided a few car accidents this way, and I've avoided rear-ending at least one semi-truck on my bike. :cheers:
I almost got into a wreck last week! It was just starting to rain when a car stopped in the middle of a curve. I was only going about 20, pressed too hard on the rear brake and went into a slide. Luckily I stopped and rolled to the side of the pavement because I stalled the bike in the process thanks to it being a little cold/ not idling well.
Not claiming to be the best here. I have been trying to do similar exercises for myself through the neighborhood and in empty parking lots in between actual riding sessions. I do use my bike as my main form of transportation but I don't consider myself above some good ol' fashioned conditioning. Practice makes perfect and you can train yourself to make it second nature. If you can practice it so many times, when the actual time comes and it's real you will just know what to do.
Try getting somewhere empty and intentionally skid your back tire with the break.
Edit: I did have it backwards. Let off the break on front end skid. Hold the break on back tire skid
Also I have made it a point to train myself to always break with both breaks. I know this may sound silly to some but I've heard a lot of local riders talk about how they don't even use the foot break and are practically only using the hand break to stop. I don't see the logic in not using 100% of the stopping power every time.
Ride safe. Peace and Blessings
-eo
Quote from: evilorion on January 29, 2015, 12:57:07 PM
If you skid on the front tire keep hold of the break until you stop.
This is really bad advice. If you lock up your front wheel you ease off the front brake (read: don't let go too fast) until the front wheel gains traction. If you continue gripping your brake your front wheel will continue to be an ice skate until you're thrown off your bike or you low side. If your wheel locks up you have no traction, in no situation would it ever make sense to continue braking at that point.
The reason most people don't use the rear brake is because it's essentially your emergency brake. Provided you brake with proper safe distances and speed you should almost never need your rear brake unless it's an emergency. Using your rear brake a lot exposes you to more situations where you will accidentally mash on the rear brake, which is notorious for slideouts. I pretty much only use my rear brake when I need to stop REALLY fast and the front brake isn't doing enough, i.e. an emergency.
Use all 3 brakes all the time (front, rear, and engine) so when you really need them you'll have them. The first time I hit the rear brake hard in an emergency on my first GS 15 years ago during the first month I had it after having had 4 Hondas with drum rear brakes I locked it up and low sided. Never again in 180k GS miles many of them in the mountains, I've used the rear along with the front all the time since. Always said my GS had dual discs, one in the front and one in the back.
Quote from: Dr.McNinja on January 29, 2015, 08:20:43 PM
Quote from: evilorion on January 29, 2015, 12:57:07 PM
If you skid on the front tire keep hold of the break until you stop.
This is really bad advice. If you lock up your front wheel you ease off the front brake (read: don't let go too fast) until the front wheel gains traction. If you continue gripping your brake your front wheel will continue to be an ice skate until you're thrown off your bike or you low side. If your wheel locks up you have no traction, in no situation would it ever make sense to continue braking at that point.
The reason most people don't use the rear brake is because it's essentially your emergency brake. Provided you brake with proper safe distances and speed you should almost never need your rear brake unless it's an emergency. Using your rear brake a lot exposes you to more situations where you will accidentally mash on the rear brake, which is notorious for slideouts. I pretty much only use my rear brake when I need to stop REALLY fast and the front brake isn't doing enough, i.e. an emergency.
I use my rear brake all the time in low speed maneuvers. I find it to be very useful for U-turns/low speed turns.
However, you are right, that advice was exactly backwards. If you lock the back, you gotta ride it out. If you release the back after locking it, the bike will violently realign when the rear tire grabs...and it will end badly. On the front, you should straighten and release as soon as possible to regain control of the bike.
I do agree that in normal braking situations the rear brake is to be avoided, or used as a compliment to the front, with the front brake leading the brake action...particularly by the novice.
Quote from: PantheraLeo on January 30, 2015, 05:46:17 AM
Quote from: Dr.McNinja on January 29, 2015, 08:20:43 PM
Quote from: evilorion on January 29, 2015, 12:57:07 PM
If you skid on the front tire keep hold of the break until you stop.
This is really bad advice. If you lock up your front wheel you ease off the front brake (read: don't let go too fast) until the front wheel gains traction. If you continue gripping your brake your front wheel will continue to be an ice skate until you're thrown off your bike or you low side. If your wheel locks up you have no traction, in no situation would it ever make sense to continue braking at that point.
The reason most people don't use the rear brake is because it's essentially your emergency brake. Provided you brake with proper safe distances and speed you should almost never need your rear brake unless it's an emergency. Using your rear brake a lot exposes you to more situations where you will accidentally mash on the rear brake, which is notorious for slideouts. I pretty much only use my rear brake when I need to stop REALLY fast and the front brake isn't doing enough, i.e. an emergency.
I use my rear brake all the time in low speed maneuvers. I find it to be very useful for U-turns/low speed turns.
However, you are right, that advice was exactly backwards. If you lock the back, you gotta ride it out. If you release the back after locking it, the bike will violently realign when the rear tire grabs...and it will end badly. On the front, you should straighten and release as soon as possible to regain control of the bike.
I do agree that in normal braking situations the rear brake is to be avoided, or used as a compliment to the front, with the front brake leading the brake action...particularly by the novice.
Yeah I forgot to mention you need the rear brake to do "police turns". When I rode with a guy who trained with the bike cops he showed up how they execute hairpin u-turns, and you absolutely need 100% steady clutch control and a shitload of rear brake. You can probably also use it to help set up a turn for trailbraking but the front is more effectively than that if your suspension isn't made of spaghetti like the GS. Especially since good compression on the forks is absolutely necessary to do it right.
Quote from: Dr.McNinja on January 30, 2015, 10:13:22 AM
Quote from: PantheraLeo on January 30, 2015, 05:46:17 AM
Quote from: Dr.McNinja on January 29, 2015, 08:20:43 PM
Quote from: evilorion on January 29, 2015, 12:57:07 PM
If you skid on the front tire keep hold of the break until you stop.
This is really bad advice. If you lock up your front wheel you ease off the front brake (read: don't let go too fast) until the front wheel gains traction. If you continue gripping your brake your front wheel will continue to be an ice skate until you're thrown off your bike or you low side. If your wheel locks up you have no traction, in no situation would it ever make sense to continue braking at that point.
The reason most people don't use the rear brake is because it's essentially your emergency brake. Provided you brake with proper safe distances and speed you should almost never need your rear brake unless it's an emergency. Using your rear brake a lot exposes you to more situations where you will accidentally mash on the rear brake, which is notorious for slideouts. I pretty much only use my rear brake when I need to stop REALLY fast and the front brake isn't doing enough, i.e. an emergency.
I use my rear brake all the time in low speed maneuvers. I find it to be very useful for U-turns/low speed turns.
However, you are right, that advice was exactly backwards. If you lock the back, you gotta ride it out. If you release the back after locking it, the bike will violently realign when the rear tire grabs...and it will end badly. On the front, you should straighten and release as soon as possible to regain control of the bike.
I do agree that in normal braking situations the rear brake is to be avoided, or used as a compliment to the front, with the front brake leading the brake action...particularly by the novice.
Yeah I forgot to mention you need the rear brake to do "police turns". When I rode with a guy who trained with the bike cops he showed up how they execute hairpin u-turns, and you absolutely need 100% steady clutch control and a shitload of rear brake. You can probably also use it to help set up a turn for trailbraking but the front is more effectively than that if your suspension isn't made of spaghetti like the GS. Especially since good compression on the forks is absolutely necessary to do it right.
curious on any information on these "police turns" just to further my motorcycle knowledge sounds interesting. I know how to drive a car like a police officer does, but I don't know how the motorcycle cops ride.
Glad your Ok, my advice...if you want to learn brake modulation, buy yourself a dirt bike. I have always said that 5 years dirt riding should be mandatory for everyone before you throw a leg over a street bike :cheers:
Quote from: J_Walker on January 30, 2015, 12:15:56 PM
Quote from: Dr.McNinja on January 30, 2015, 10:13:22 AM
Quote from: PantheraLeo on January 30, 2015, 05:46:17 AM
Quote from: Dr.McNinja on January 29, 2015, 08:20:43 PM
Quote from: evilorion on January 29, 2015, 12:57:07 PM
If you skid on the front tire keep hold of the break until you stop.
This is really bad advice. If you lock up your front wheel you ease off the front brake (read: don't let go too fast) until the front wheel gains traction. If you continue gripping your brake your front wheel will continue to be an ice skate until you're thrown off your bike or you low side. If your wheel locks up you have no traction, in no situation would it ever make sense to continue braking at that point.
The reason most people don't use the rear brake is because it's essentially your emergency brake. Provided you brake with proper safe distances and speed you should almost never need your rear brake unless it's an emergency. Using your rear brake a lot exposes you to more situations where you will accidentally mash on the rear brake, which is notorious for slideouts. I pretty much only use my rear brake when I need to stop REALLY fast and the front brake isn't doing enough, i.e. an emergency.
I use my rear brake all the time in low speed maneuvers. I find it to be very useful for U-turns/low speed turns.
However, you are right, that advice was exactly backwards. If you lock the back, you gotta ride it out. If you release the back after locking it, the bike will violently realign when the rear tire grabs...and it will end badly. On the front, you should straighten and release as soon as possible to regain control of the bike.
I do agree that in normal braking situations the rear brake is to be avoided, or used as a compliment to the front, with the front brake leading the brake action...particularly by the novice.
Yeah I forgot to mention you need the rear brake to do "police turns". When I rode with a guy who trained with the bike cops he showed up how they execute hairpin u-turns, and you absolutely need 100% steady clutch control and a shitload of rear brake. You can probably also use it to help set up a turn for trailbraking but the front is more effectively than that if your suspension isn't made of spaghetti like the GS. Especially since good compression on the forks is absolutely necessary to do it right.
curious on any information on these "police turns" just to further my motorcycle knowledge sounds interesting. I know how to drive a car like a police officer does, but I don't know how the motorcycle cops ride.
google 'motogymkhana' - there is a ton of information about courses and techniques out there on the interweb.
for instance, this will do more for a rider in one practice session than months in a class room:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6AfZF72btc
Quote from: ohgood on January 31, 2015, 07:11:35 AMgoogle 'motogymkhana' - there is a ton of information about courses and techniques out there on the interweb.
for instance, this will do more for a rider in one practice session than months in a class room:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6AfZF72btc
You will also notice the extensive use of crash bars, if I did this I would have a dedicated bike, just like a track bike :dunno_black:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZjWTHKlYZE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZjWTHKlYZE)
Quote from: J_Walker on January 30, 2015, 12:15:56 PM
Quote from: Dr.McNinja on January 30, 2015, 10:13:22 AM
Quote from: PantheraLeo on January 30, 2015, 05:46:17 AM
Quote from: Dr.McNinja on January 29, 2015, 08:20:43 PM
Quote from: evilorion on January 29, 2015, 12:57:07 PM
If you skid on the front tire keep hold of the break until you stop.
This is really bad advice. If you lock up your front wheel you ease off the front brake (read: don't let go too fast) until the front wheel gains traction. If you continue gripping your brake your front wheel will continue to be an ice skate until you're thrown off your bike or you low side. If your wheel locks up you have no traction, in no situation would it ever make sense to continue braking at that point.
The reason most people don't use the rear brake is because it's essentially your emergency brake. Provided you brake with proper safe distances and speed you should almost never need your rear brake unless it's an emergency. Using your rear brake a lot exposes you to more situations where you will accidentally mash on the rear brake, which is notorious for slideouts. I pretty much only use my rear brake when I need to stop REALLY fast and the front brake isn't doing enough, i.e. an emergency.
I use my rear brake all the time in low speed maneuvers. I find it to be very useful for U-turns/low speed turns.
However, you are right, that advice was exactly backwards. If you lock the back, you gotta ride it out. If you release the back after locking it, the bike will violently realign when the rear tire grabs...and it will end badly. On the front, you should straighten and release as soon as possible to regain control of the bike.
I do agree that in normal braking situations the rear brake is to be avoided, or used as a compliment to the front, with the front brake leading the brake action...particularly by the novice.
Yeah I forgot to mention you need the rear brake to do "police turns". When I rode with a guy who trained with the bike cops he showed up how they execute hairpin u-turns, and you absolutely need 100% steady clutch control and a shitload of rear brake. You can probably also use it to help set up a turn for trailbraking but the front is more effectively than that if your suspension isn't made of spaghetti like the GS. Especially since good compression on the forks is absolutely necessary to do it right.
curious on any information on these "police turns" just to further my motorcycle knowledge sounds interesting. I know how to drive a car like a police officer does, but I don't know how the motorcycle cops ride.
People have already linked you videos, but having done this stuff I'd like to add you WILL drop your bike. There's no "oh maybe I'm good enough". Nope, any good teacher will force you to drop your bike with increasingly challenging turns. Get crash bars, take off your fairings, and have at it.
Ah yes - I did have it backwards. Don't know how I got that mixed up in my mind. That's what you guys are good for :P
Yes - Hold the break on a back tire skid. Slowly release, align your tires, and break again on a front tire skid
Sorry for my mix up.
Peace and Blessings
-eo
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on January 31, 2015, 07:29:42 AM
Quote from: ohgood on January 31, 2015, 07:11:35 AMgoogle 'motogymkhana' - there is a ton of information about courses and techniques out there on the interweb.
for instance, this will do more for a rider in one practice session than months in a class room:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6AfZF72btc
You will also notice the extensive use of crash bars, if I did this I would have a dedicated bike, just like a track bike :dunno_black:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZjWTHKlYZE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZjWTHKlYZE)
None of those guys had my MSF instructor...
Riding those brakes. God that guy would smash your fingers in everytime he saw you do it. I SURE LEARNED NOT TO RIDE THE BRAKES. lol